Characters?

[Smile]

Kairi saying Riku has changed has always made me wonder what she meant, though I always assumed it had to do with him becoming incredibly obsessed with leaving the islands.

It does make you wonder what triggered their departure, seeing how Riku and Sora promised to set out on their adventure years before.
I suppose we can blame it on the Darkness becoming stronger all over the place that triggered his will to leave, at least until a better explanation is presented.
Would tie in with all the people saying she wanted to take the raft and leave because being a PoH, she sensed the Darkness in him.
I still don't forgive her for it, seeing how again - they're supposed to be buds, and that's not something you say about a best friend, even jokingly, especially if she felt he was in trouble as well.

Well, see, my problem with Xion is that she's come out of nowhere, but somehow has a well-established friendship with Axel and Roxas, can wield a Keyblade, and looks so similar to Kairi. I'm gonna give her a chance, but I just found it really odd, more than anything, for her to be there.

I'm more of an optimist when it comes to it. Until she proves to be a bad character with a loose plot, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, as befitting a Watanabe character.

The problem is, though, that the Kh2 members weren't written in a way that people really got to know their personalities. I don't really hate anything, and Saix is pretty cool, it's just that it's hard to define their personalities, whereas the CoM members got whole scenes dedicated to them.

Well, in a way, KH2 had a motif that CoM lacked, being that Nobodies have no emotions. So in a way, they couldn't afford to give them those personalities.

I can see where you get that from, but I just never saw that myself. XD Agh, she needs more development so her personality is more grounded and people get a much better idea, whether good or bad.

I really do roll my eyes whenever someone says it, though don't take it personally. It's not that we didn't get to see anything about Kairi, and while I agree we barely saw anything, people that say this make it sound like she never said a single line all through the game so we really can't establish an opinion.
That's hardly the case though.
She's obsessed with Sora to the point of disregarding his own feelings.
She couldn't care less about Riku as shown in KH1 and even in KH2 when she couldn't seem able to care less about him ,despite the fact he's been missing for god knows how long.
Yes, they didn't show us the good in her.
They more than showed the bad though.

 

[.:Mega:.]

It does make you wonder what triggered their departure, seeing how Riku and Sora promised to set out on their adventure years before.
I suppose we can blame it on the Darkness becoming stronger all over the place that triggered his will to leave, at least until a better explanation is presented.
Would tie in with all the people saying she wanted to take the raft and leave because being a PoH, she sensed the Darkness in him.
I still don't forgive her for it, seeing how again - they're supposed to be buds, and that's not something you say about a best friend, even jokingly, especially if she felt he was in trouble as well.

True, but I always thought that, if anything, it came out of pure discomfort-- I always felt that Riku was the one who truly wanted to go, and that, in many ways, he had a very extreme view about their home, while Sora and Kairi seemed to be fairly content, even though they both expressed some interest in seeing other worlds. They were practically going to run away from home, after all, without even telling their parents/guardians (or at least, that's what I got from Riku's line before he disappeared).

And, actually, when it comes to KH2, I found it strange that even Selphie didn't seem all that worried about Riku; it's like his absence, not just to Kairi, but as a whole, was a mere afterthought. Now, I don't remember the exact quote, but I know she does mention Riku when Selphie asks, and it does seem fairly positive, but it's odd nonetheless. Most of the lines referring to Riku, bar that one scene on Destiny Islands, seemed to be pretty positive, but, as always, it's a matter of the individual's interpretation. Practically the whole series seems to be open to that, since Nomura likes allowing the fans to specualte, if I recall correctly. It does complicate things a bit, though. XD;

I'm more of an optimist when it comes to it. Until she proves to be a bad character with a loose plot, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, as befitting a Watanabe character.

Yeah, I'm trying to keep an open mind about her until I actually see more of her; I just hope that she turns out to be a good character, as the series needs more female characters that have good personalities; I hope this is the case with Aqua as well.

 

[Smile]

And, actually, when it comes to KH2, I found it strange that even Selphie didn't seem all that worried about Riku; it's like his absence, not just to Kairi, but as a whole, was a mere afterthought. Now, I don't remember the exact quote, but I know she does mention Riku when Selphie asks, and it does seem fairly positive, but it's odd nonetheless.

Well, it has been close to a year, so I'd reckon that any serious thoughts in the matter were already done. The fact remains though that Selphie did wonder about Riku while Kairi just said that she didn't mean Riku but the vague memories from Sora.
As for Kairi showing a positive notion about Riku - need I remind you how she reacted to Sora? Riku could've died off somewhere and Kairi would've been fine with it. For Sora, she went "maybe waiting isn't good enough". There's saying she believes in Riku; there's also saying she doesn't really care. Otherwise, had she cared about Riku, I doubt Olette would've described her story as that much of a romance.
SRK have three people in it. I don't think it goes that way.

Most of the lines referring to Riku, bar that one scene on Destiny Islands, seemed to be pretty positive, but, as always, it's a matter of the individual's interpretation.

Riku having lost his Heart isn't really positive, and it stands in a painful contrast to Kairi stubburonly refusing to accept a similar fate to Sora.

Yeah, I'm trying to keep an open mind about her until I actually see more of her; I just hope that she turns out to be a good character, as the series needs more female characters that have good personalities; I hope this is the case with Aqua as well.

actually, i like both Selphie and Olette, as well as most of the interpretations to the active Disney females, so to me, it's not like the series really lacks good females - it's just that they have Kairi as the leading girl instead of Namine.

 

[.:Mega:.]

Riku having lost his Heart isn't really positive, and it stands in a painful contrast to Kairi stubburonly refusing to accept a similar fate to Sora.

I really ought to go through KH1 again, as I really don't remember that line... I suppose it wasn't from a voiced-cutscene? I'd need the exact quote to see, but maybe she was worried that he lost his heart? Ansem did seem to have a fair amount of control of him, even when he did fight it. Though, again, I'd need to see that quote, or to just play the game again when I'm less busy. (I've been planning to anyway, as it'd be a great help with a canon-based AU I'm planning to write.)

actually, i like both Selphie and Olette, as well as most of the interpretations to the active Disney females, so to me, it's not like the series really lacks good females - it's just that they have Kairi as the leading girl instead of Namine.

Olette seems like a fun character, I agree, and Selphie, too, but I really would like to see more of the KH original females specifically; the only KH-specific females so far seem to be Kairi, Namine, Olette, Larxene, and now Aqua and Xion, yet for KH original males we get... Sora, Riku, Xehanort's heartless, Ansem the Wise, Xemnas, Xehanort, Xigbar, Xaldin, Vexen, Lexaeus, Zexion, Saix, Axel, Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia, Roxas, Terra, Ven, Master Xehanort, Hayner, Pence, Master Xehanort's little minion, annnd... well, I guess you could count the others of the apprentices, even if they haven't made appearances bar Xehanort.

For most of these shortcomings with Kairi, I still blame the need to imply SoKai as a part of this aspect of her character; I've noticed that most of the scenes were she comes across as uncaring to some is always because of Sora taking the priority. In scenes with just her and Riku it doesn't seem to be as big of an issue,even if those scenes are just limited to KH2 and very brief, if not rushed in some ways. She actually does seem to care about him in those scenes, but scenes Sora isn't there at the time. Part of the reason why I dislike SoKai is because it just seems like a huge obstacle for her character. Not every story needs a love interest, and if it's going to ruin relations with other characters then I'd rather do without that interest; Namine is different because she was written by what I assume to be a better writer... only to be ruined by KH2's writer.

maybe waiting isn't good enough

I interpreted that as waiting for them both, but it's very easy to take it as just for Sora.

I doubt Olette would've described her story as that much of a romance.

Again, SoKai taking priority. It's as though the writers felt the need to shove SoKai in there just so there could be an interest, which is where scenes like Olette mentioning romance, Sora seeing Kairi dance, and his 'face being red' bother me. Then we have the concept art which shows them as a happy little friendship, which is what they're, to some, supposed to be, yet you have SoKai implications which obviously are a conflict. I'd rather see them all as good friends than to have an implied pairing that obviously causes problems. I think it's because a lot of RPGs have implied interests as some sort of way to give the character a motive, but...Sora doesn't need romance for a motive. He's just looking for his friends. o-o;

 

[Smile]

I really ought to go through KH1 again, as I really don't remember that line... I suppose it wasn't from a voiced-cutscene?

It was, actually.

I'd need the exact quote to see, but maybe she was worried that he lost his heart? Ansem did seem to have a fair amount of control of him, even when he did fight it.

Oh, yeah, that's what she meant, but you missed my point.

Riku losing his Heart - Kairi: boo, he lost his heart >:
Sora losing his Heart - Kairi: NO! I WON'T LET YOU GO! EVER AND EVER AND EVER!!!

see the difference from Kairi's part?

You think it’ll ever be the same again between us? Riku’s lost his...

And as though to further throw the irony in our faces -

When I turned into a Heartless, you saved me, remember?

:I

the only KH-specific females so far seem to be Kairi, Namine, Olette, Larxene, and now Aqua and Xion, yet for KH original males we get... Sora, Riku, Xehanort's heartless, Ansem the Wise, Xemnas, Xehanort, Xigbar, Xaldin, Vexen, Lexaeus, Zexion, Saix, Axel, Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia, Roxas, Terra, Ven, Master Xehanort, Hayner, Pence, Master Xehanort's little minion, annnd... well, I guess you could count the others of the apprentices, even if they haven't made appearances bar Xehanort.

Yet ironically, each female has a bigger role in comparison to the males.
A lot of people would remember Larxene much more than they would Lexaeus or even Zexion for obvious reasons.
So the amount doesn't matter.

For most of these shortcomings with Karii, I still blame the need to imply SoKai as a part of this aspect of Kairi; I've noticed that most of the scenes were she comes across as uncaring to some is always because of Sora taking the priority.

I know, which is why Namine is so wonderful. SoNami comes in as an added bonus to her having her own story and her own based interactions with both Sora and Riku :I because SoNami is there for Namine, unlike Kairi that's there to keep Sora from being too gay for Riku. Which he still is, regardless XD

In scenes with just her and Riku it doesn't seem to be as big of an issue,even if those scenes are just limited to KH2 and very brief, if not rushed in some ways.
She actually does seem to care about him in those scenes, but in those scenes Sora isn't there.

Only those scenes can be explained by Sora, too.
Riku is the person Sora left her to find, after all. Being with Riku = being where Sora'd come to.
And of course her stopping Riku from leaving.
Had she let him go and Sora found out she knew it was Riku = Sora never would've forgiven her.
Not so nice once you look at it this way, huh? And all but nothing to prove otherwise.

Part of the reason why I dislike SoKai is because it just seems like a huge obstacle for her character.

Yet ironiaclly it's why she even appears in KH2 at all.
The even more ironic part of it is that had they left her out, the SoKai implications would've been much stronger.
Think about it - Riku and Sora finding her letter and returning to her after all this time. Wonderful.
Problem - they met her five minutes ago and still agreed to remain in the Darkness, and not only that, but become the Darkness.
Kind of ruins the moment, doesn't it? :I

Not every story needs a love interest, and if it's going to ruin relations with other characters then I'd rather do without that interest;

I agree to this. It's funny how SoKai is the would be canon, but each and every other relationship is better by too much it hurts.

Namine is different because she was written by what I assume to be a better writer...

Watanabe! <3

only to be ruined by KH2's writer.

Nojima :thumbdown:

Again, SoKai taking priority. It's as though the writers felt the need to shove SoKai in there just so there could be an interest, which is where scenes like Olette mentioning romance, Sora seeing Kairi dance, and his 'face being red' bother me. Then we have the concept art which shows them as a happy little friendship, which is what they're, to some, supposed to be, yet you have SoKai implications which obviously are a conflict. I'd rather see them all as good friends than to have an implied pairing that obviously causes problems.

This to the limit. See how well it worked with SoNami :I and RiNami in a way. Love is supposed to be built on friendship imo, at least that kind of puppy love.
Sora in KH2 is horny and that's borderline disgusting seeing what they wanted to base opposed with what they actually based.

I think it's because a lot of RPGs have implied interests as some sort of way to give the character a motive, but...Sora doesn't need romance for a motive. He's just looking for his friends. o-o;

Amen. And again, ironic - Kairi was found on the way to saving Riku in KH1 and then left behind. Sora then resumed chasing after Riku through CoM and KH2, and Kairi was brought in for completely different reasons by unrelated parties (Axel doing it for Namine).
So... Sora doesn't only not need a motive for traveling, he doesn't use Kairi as a motive because he has enough of those.
Kairi really is useless even in that aspect.

 

[.:Mega:.]

Oh, yeah, that's what she meant, but you missed my point.

Riku losing his Heart - Kairi: boo, he lost his heart >:
Sora losing his Heart - Kairi: NO! I WON'T LET YOU GO! EVER AND EVER AND EVER!!!

Ah, the woes of needing to imply SoKai. I think if the line about her not letting him go was ditched, and it were left to "No, he can't be...", or even just "No..." as a sort of sad line then it wouldn't have been as bad. Just omitting a few words can make a difference.

I know, which is why Namine is so wonderful. SoNami comes in as an added bonus to her having her own story and her own based interactions with both Sora and Riku :I because SoNami is there for Namine, unlike Kairi that's there to keep Sora from being too gay for Riku. Which he still is, regardless XD

Definitely agreed. SoNami really is a charming pair, and her role doesn't require her to be a part of a pairing; it's just an option for her that can be adorable. Namine with the Replica and with Riku are also cute; she's pretty versatile to that regard.

This to the limit. See how well it worked with SoNami :I and RiNami in a way. Love is supposed to be built on friendship imo, at least that kind of puppy love.
Sora in KH2 is horny and that's borderline disgusting seeing what they wanted to base opposed with what they actually based.

KH2 Sora just didn't have that same charm that he did in the previous titles. He went from being a kid who was a little naive, but sweet and cared for his friends to a strangely altered version of that with added anger issues and the 'horniness' you mentioned.

Yet ironiaclly it's why she even appears in KH2 at all.
The even more ironic part of it is that had they left her out, the SoKai implications would've been much stronger.
Think about it - Riku and Sora finding her letter and returning to her after all this time. Wonderful.
Problem - they met her five minutes ago and still agreed to remain in the Darkness, and not only that, but become the Darkness.
Kind of ruins the moment, doesn't it? :I

Not only that, but it kinda contradicts things a bit, since they were fighting the darkness that entire time. Well, that and Nobodies. More of KH2's bad writing, methinks. u_u

Again, I definitely can see where you're coming from, but with me I like to look at the aspects of Kairi that aren't as unpleasant. I can see a bit of spunk and the potential to be a caring, if not a bit silly, character, if not for SoKai being forced. That, and, since her backstory and off-screen self aren't shown or expanded upon, it leaves room for fleshing out. I think, in the end, it all depends on how the character is written. Namine was graced with Watanabe's writing skills, and Kairi seems to suffer because of Nojima, or that's what I've gathered from this. o-o

EDIT: Come to think of it, I wonder how Kairi would have changed if she hadn't ever gone to the islands. Perhaps without knowing Sora that'd eliminate those problems of SoKai forcing entirely... hm, I may have to try and write that out at some point as an experiment.

 

[Smile]

Ah, the woes of needing to imply SoKai. I think if the line about her not letting him go was ditched, and it were left to "No, he can't be...", or even just "No..." as a sort of sad line then it wouldn't have been as bad. Just omitting a few words can make a difference.

Tell me about it.

Definitely agreed. SoNami really is a charming pair, and her role doesn't require her to be a part of a pairing; it's just an option for her that can be adorable. Namine with the Replica and with Riku are also cute; she's pretty versatile to that regard.

And even Roxas and Axel to an extent >: because her plot makes her go around, unlike Kairi >_>

KH2 Sora just didn't have that same charm that he did in the previous titles. He went from being a kid who was a little naive, but sweet and cared for his friends to a strangely altered version of that with added anger issues and the 'horniness' you mentioned.

Well, it was kind of amusing sometimes, like when he wanted to take Simba's place as king and have the herd of lionesses xD there was still undeniable Sora though, like when he wanted to teach Tron to dance >:
Gah, Tron <3

That, and, since her backstory and off-screen self aren't shown or expanded upon, it leaves room for fleshing out.

The irony is that Kairi is the one with the bigger back-story compared with Sora and Riku o.o; at least thus far.

I think, in the end, it all depends on how the character is written. Namine was graced with Watanabe's writing skills, and Kairi seems to suffer because of Nojima, or that's what I've gathered from this. o-o

I actually theorized on several occasions Watanabe doesn't like writing her XD

 

[Chibi-Usa]

SA will give the best reasons. XD
personally, I prefer namine. she is more likable, less obnoxious, and I feel bad for her. Kairi is dead weight.

When I read that, a little part of my insides died,lol.Honestly tho,what does Namine have that Kairi doesn't?

 

[Smile]

o: *points at essay in sig* xD;
amongst other things, true plot worth and based interaction with the people around her, not only Square going and coming "We SAID Sora isn't gay, and look, there's a girl... Kai... what's her name. Put two and two together, ok?!"

 

[Chibi-Usa]

o: *points at essay in sig* xD;
amongst other things, true plot worth and based interaction with the people around her, not only Square going and coming "We SAID Sora isn't gay, and look, there's a girl... Kai... what's her name. Put two and two together, ok?!"

lol. I gotta admit that does make sense.

I've always liked Namine but with Riku instead lol

 

[Smile]

Namine goes well with everyone <3 aside from Kairi, ironically XD

 

[.:Mega:.]

Well, it was kind of amusing sometimes, like when he wanted to take Simba's place as king and have the herd of lionesses xD there was still undeniable Sora though, like when he wanted to teach Tron to dance >:
Gah, Tron <3

Oh, wow...I never thought of it that way. XDD The whole lioness thing, lawlz. But I do admit that he had his moments, it's just that they were often overshadowed.

The irony is that Kairi is the one with the bigger back-story compared with Sora and Riku o.o; at least thus far.

Which is all the more reason to flesh her out, so people know more about her. Then again, drawing one's own interpretations is fun, too, but I wouldn't mind some bits and pieces here and there.

I actually theorized on several occasions Watanabe doesn't like writing her XD

Who knows? XD Still, maybe he'd actually do her some justice. It's already clear that two different writers can make the difference between good and bad characterization.

All this talk made me go through the script and stuff a bit, and just getting rid of a few words or sentences like I mentioned does seem to help somewhat.

Like, let's see...

Kairi: You know, Riku has changed.

Sora: What do you mean?

Kairi: Well...

Sora: What’s gotten into you? You’re the one that’s changed, Kairi.

Kairi: Maybe... You know, I was a little afraid at first, but now I’m ready. No
matter where I go or what I see, I know I can always come back here. Right?

Sora: Yeah, of course!

Kairi: That’s good. Sora, don’t ever change.

Here's one option-- taking away the whole departing without Riku. Still gets a similar point across, but without needless forcing. The whole 'don't ever change' thing I didn't think was that big of a deal.

Aaand...

Kairi: Sora!

Kairi tries to catch Sora before he hits the ground, but he disappears.

Donald: Sora! Come back, Sora!

The screen switches to Sora in the darkness.

Sora: What’s... What’s happening to me? Falling...falling...into darkness.

The screen switches to Goofy, Donald Duck, and Kairi who are extremely
concerned about the whereabouts of Sora.

Kairi: Sora, are you really...?

:: Alternatively::

Kairi: No, he can't be...

Nooot quite sure about the scene in the tunnel. |D; But, eh, I think you can get most of the points across from these scenes without the stuff I omitted.

 

[Smile]

Here's one option-- taking away the whole departing without Riku. Still gets a similar point across, but without needless forcing. The whole 'don't ever change' thing I didn't think was that big of a deal.

True that. Would remove one huge thing a lot of people have against her, while still hinting towards her being a PoH or even caring about Riku. She notices the change, is worried, but instead of ditching him, just makes sure that while both her and Riku changed, they'd both have this one constant in their life, being Sora.

Nooot quite sure about the scene in the tunnel. |D; But, eh, I think you can get most of the points across from these scenes without the stuff I omitted.

Yeah, that's good too. have her be doubtful about the both of them, and then when she saves Sora, Sora takes on the role to save Riku, thus completing the cycle, seeing how in a way, Riku did save Kairi.
Kairi acting the way she originally did breaks this though since it shows the will to save really does only go in one direction, as opposed to what you portrayed where circumstances made them save each other in that specific order.

 

[.:Mega:.]

True that. Would remove one huge thing a lot of people have against her, while still hinting towards her being a PoH or even caring about Riku. She notices the change, is worried, but instead of ditching him, just makes sure that while both her and Riku changed, they'd both have this one constant in their life, being Sora.

Yeah. ^^ If it had been written that way, there would be that concern, but without the, IMO, forced line about leaving that seemed to be tacked on for pairing implication. Worrying about Riku really would be reasonable, since I imagine he was acting pretty darn strange, or at least super enthusiastic about the departure. Agh, now I want to write it like that in my AU that I'm working on, since, canon-based or not, it's AU and allows for little creative liberties like that. Wish it could've been this way in-game, but heh, not like wishing will change the game for real. Thankfully the manga didn't have that scene, I don't think...

Yeah, that's good too. have her be doubtful about the both of them, and then when she saves Sora, Sora takes on the role to save Riku, thus completing the cycle, seeing how in a way, Riku did save Kairi.
Kairi acting the way she originally did breaks this though since it shows the will to save really does only go in one direction, as opposed to what you portrayed where circumstances made them save each other in that specific order.

Which would have, really, made their friendship seem much more solid, and have made Kairi much better just from a simple change of dialogue that doesn't even require all the scenes to be tweaked completely. I actually think the beginning scenes on DI were just fine, when it was just them talking about finishing the raft, or when they had the race; they were pretty cute, and with the tweaks of the scenes I mentioned, even bits like the tunnel scene work as is. This makes me want to look at her KH2 scenes and see if I could do something similar, though that may be a bit tougher. Still, it's like I said earlier- I like Kairi mainly for the potential that could exist without SoKai influence. Take away all those implications and she, as well as the structure of the friendship between the three, has less conflict. Doesn't mean taking away every line; just getting rid of the ones that just seemed shoved into the script. I don't even think omitting that stuff makes her OOC, either; just a way of improving what's there.

 

[Smile]

Yeah. ^^ If it had been written that way, there would be that concern, but without the, IMO, forced line about leaving that seemed to be tacked on for pairing implication. Worrying about Riku really would be reasonable, since I imagine he was acting pretty darn strange, or at least super enthusiastic about the departure.

Well, the thing is, Sora didn't seem to agree with her, and thrown in with his notion about Kairi changing, it ties back in to Kairi seeing it in her mind and possibly just trying to get Sora to dump Riku.

Thankfully the manga didn't have that scene, I don't think...

I'll tell you what I liked best in the manga as far as basing SoKai goes - in hopes the world wouldn't end over me liking something about SoKai anywhere (though then again I guess Sora being such a Riku/Kairi shipper in the manga balances this out).
They actually made Sora homesick. So when he thought about Kairi, I couldn't shrug it off as him thinking about home but having no one else to think off since they screwed it up. They separated Kairi from the concept of Home, thus legitimizing the romantic undertones in it as opposed to the games where the shoved romance ruined a perfectly good Conceptual Role for Kairi that she sadly enough did manage to uphold to a certain degree with Riku in KH2 - on his part though. She only cared about Sora.

Which would have, really, made their friendship seem much more solid, and have made Kairi much better just from a simple change of dialogue that doesn't even require all the scenes to be tweaked completely. I actually think the beginning scenes on DI were just fine, when it was just them talking about finishing the raft, or when they had the race; they were pretty cute, and with the tweaks of the scenes I mentioned, even bits like the tunnel scene work as is.

I agree. As I stated numerous times before, I couldn't really care less about Kairi being the leading girl as long as she was just useless to the plot in the long run.
It's her not giving a damn about Riku that made it into hate, because besides her saying those horrible things about Riku, she said them to Sora.
Freaking Santa Claus knew how much Riku meant to Sora, so Kairi, who's been there all their lives, would just go on and blurt how Riku, the one most important person to not only Sora, but supposedly to Kairi herself too, lost his Heart.
It would've tied in with her being insecure in general, but again - she refused to let Sora go, but all but gave up on Riku without a fight. So under the current script, Kairi is not only useless to me, she's also quite a bitch that doesn't even really care about Sora or his feelings.

This makes me want to look at her KH2 scenes and see if I could do something similar, though that may be a bit tougher.

Not really. It might actually be easier.
Either you do what I've always wanted and pull her out of the plot completely, leaving her shown when Roxas "talked" to her, and then at the end when they return home (only have her a bit more concerned for Riku when Selphie talks to her, naturally), or just - again, throw in a few more Riku references aside from her obsessing over Sora.
Oh and at the end, instead of her deciding she'd go with them to fight Xemnas, have her promise to wait for them. Despite Riku lending her a Keyblade, no, she's under no means a fighters >:

Still, it's like I said earlier- I like Kairi mainly for the potential that could exist without SoKai influence. Take away all those implications and she, as well as the structure of the friendship between the three, has less conflict.

You mean, there would actually be a structure of friendship between the three, now that Kairi'll actually seem to care about Riku.

Doesn't mean taking away every line; just getting rid of the ones that just seemed shoved into the script. I don't even think omitting that stuff makes her OOC, either; just a way of improving what's there.

It would make her ooc in a bit since it would be changing her current character.
Sadly though I'm not one to forgive bad writing simply because it had potential, so I can't just say she'd get better in KH3 or shrug at her not caring about Riku :\
The potential aside, she is a bitch towards him imo, and again - us not seeing the good in her doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye to the bad.

 

[.:Mega:.]

It would make her ooc in a bit since it would be changing her current character.
Sadly though I'm not one to forgive bad writing simply because it had potential, so I can't just say she'd get better in KH3 or shrug at her not caring about Riku :\
The potential aside, she is a bitch towards him imo, and again - us not seeing the good in her doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye to the bad.

But you know, it makes me wonder if the writers even meant to make those lines sound rude, or if they were trying to just get those annoying implications in without realizing how they sounded to some. I mean, they're always said to be best friends, all three of them, so it's kind of odd that they'd do that for any other reason than to push in bits for the sake of pairing-pushing. They kinda did that with Namine in KH2 about Roxas, which is a shame. o-o

 

[Smile]

But you know, it makes me wonder if the writers even meant to make those lines sound rude, or if they were trying to just get those annoying implications in without realizing how they sounded to some.

The fact remains however that whether or not they intended Kairi to not really care about Riku, that's how they ended up writing her. SoKai being the reason Kairi-Riku doesn't exist doesn't change the very simple fact that -
Kairi-Riku doesn't seem to exist on the very basic of levels, being that Kairi'd care enough to not poke fun at her and Sora leaving Riku behind. Because uh, you know, that's not a very good joke. At all. Least of all to be said to Sora of all people. _O:

I mean, they're always said to be best friends, all three of them, so it's kind of odd that they'd do that for any other reason than to push in bits for the sake of pairing-pushing.

Yes, see? That's part of what I liked so much about the Memories Naminé created for Sora (...which is the original topic for this thread XDDD). She didn't just hit home right off the bat, making him remember he proposed to her at the age of 5 and then she disappeared; hardly.

First there was the Memory of them playing in the water, and Naminé sitting aside and drawing them. Seeing how later on Riku and Sora get mentioned specifically, it's not too hard to imagine, in light of Tidus, Selphie and Wakka "knowing" Naminé in the DI Memory World, that Sora remembered him, Riku, probably Kairi, and Tidus, Wakka and Selphie as well were the ones playing, and Naminé drew all of them. You have Naminé interacting with everyone on Destiny Islands, instead of Kairi first standing at the farthest end of one plot of beach, and later on on the farthest end of the father plot of the beach, namely - cutting herself off from everyone other than Sora who came running towards her.
So, her being a part of the group (something even Riku had in DI what with Tidus mentioning they fought with Riku, as opposed to Kairi), it makes sense that at one time or another, she'd be left with Sora and Riku alone. And Sora does indeed imply that such things happened, seeing how him and Riku used to fight over who'd get their picture drawn next. Kairi was the judge in their races, meaning she was a side addition to pure Sora-Riku interaction. Naminé, however, was the center of said interaction; the goal. They were Sora and Riku because of and for Naminé, making her the important part of their interaction.
And that is when we get to see the true SoNami centered Memories, but by then, we already have more than enough basis for Naminé's relationship with both Sora and Riku to really believe SoNami as opposed to the factual, unbased SoKai that DI failed to base, basing instead Riku/Kairi.
I said before, I'll say it again - Kairi not being in the DI Memory World doesn't break anything, nor does it show Naminé replaced her or anything. It continues the line of thought that says Sora believes in Riku/Kairi, thus leaving him with Naminé.
Perfect balance upheld <3

They kinda did that with Namine in KH2 about Roxas, which is a shame. o-o

Which, ironically, was later on used again to base SoKai, what with RokuNami magically wanting to somehow yes continue existing, so SoKai'd have to see each other every day. Sora was almost smart enough to screw that shit over and stay with Riku in the Darkness. Almost...
I think we've more than established the main pattern in all bad things though.
Kairi is there for the sake of supposedly being Sora's romantic interest and fails in all aspects of it.

 

[Azrael]

I have a question for all the So/Nam fanatics: I want to know why? Im just saying, almost all their interactions, meaning soras feelings and memories(the good luck charm thing, the promise, etc.) for namine were base off of fake(implemented) memories. Im by no way a Sora/kairi person(I dont really care who sora is paired with). I just dont understand your logic. Hope Im not being rude.

SoNami>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SoKai

'Nuff said.

 

[Smile]

SoNami>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SoKai

'Nuff said.

That about summed it up, yes.