Candidate for 13 Darknesses

[towerofpowerxx]

I hearby nominate Mysterious Figure from BBS as one of the 13 darknesses. I do this because of who I believe he is: MX's Nobody. Created when Terra used MX's Keyblade to remove both their hearts. Hence, the second time MX had his heart removed in Radiant Garden, not the first time at the Keyblade Graveyard. Heartless may not have been prominent in BBS, but they did exist, so it stands to reason Nobodies did too. Nobodies are created when a person loses their heart to darkness. The first time, MX transferred his heart straight into Terra, so nothing was created. The second time they both definately lost their hearts to darkness. It is entirely possible that a Heartless was created, but with Aqua sending Terra back in mere moments we never saw it. Even if it spawned in the real world. Imagine a Heartless puttering around for maybe a minute, then transforming back into Terra, just like Sora did in KHI. Or two Heartless, since it was both Terra and MX. On the other hand, a Nobody is created from the body, not # of hearts, so just one Nobody would've been created. And since this Nobody was created from Terra's body, that explains why MF is not a hunched-over old man. And if I remember correctly, Nobodies do not age, so it is entirely plausible for MF to exist to this day. Now for the obvious one: those blades of his. They may look different, but are clearly similar to Xemnas's light blades. Two different Nobodies, created from the same person, wielding similar weapons. Sounds good.

As I sit here writing this, I just had a huge revelation. Another reason why MF has to be under one of those cloaks in the throne room. The answer is one word: memories. We all know what happened to Sora. He got his memories tampered with, then Roxas took them into himself (and of course Xion). And unless that Nobody returns to their Somebody, or is destroyed, those memories stay with that Nobody. Now bear with me here. Let's assume when MF was created, he took most of MX's and Terra's memories. Since both Terra and MX were fighting for control inside of Terranort, their hearts in a "sleep" of sorts, both were unable to assert control and regain said memories. If one of them had regained control right away, as Sora did when he came back, the memory loss might not have been permanent. When MX finally breaks out in the beginning of DDD, he had little to no idea who he was. So he went a little nuts, attacked everyone in sight, starting calling himself Ansem, and unleashed the darkness, probably on accident. And when Xemnas was created, he barely had any memories either, because the bulk of both MX and Terra's memories were still with MF. This explains Xemnas's memory loss! You could think of Xemnas as Roxas, and MF as Xion, as they are caught up in similar situations. All Xemnas had left were a few scattered memories from both Terra and MX. MX's were the more "prominent" of the memories (as MX was stronger than Terra), leading Xemnas to continue experimenting on the heart and basically doing lots of evil stuff, while Terra's lingering memories led him to talk to Aqua's armor in ROS, calling her "friend"!

Then, DDD comes along. We are shown two things. First, Roxas meets Sora and shares all of his own memories with Sora. So, a Nobody is capable of willingly sharing their own memories with their Somebody. And two, when MX materializes, he clearly has all his memories back. So, in YMX's travelings to gather all of MX's "clones", he of course finds MF. MF is brought to TWTNW. Terra's body has been resurrected on the dark side as well. And finally, both Terra and MX are able to regain their lost memories, though Terra is unable to break free of MX. As for MF, he remains to fight on the dark side as a part of MX, much like Xemnas and Ansem SOD.

Honestly, all that just flowed out of me, not what I planned to write at all. But a Nobody holding on to all MX/Terranort/Xemnas's memories explains everything, not least because it is exactly what happened to Sora with Roxas and Xion. So *cough*, THAT is why MF is under one of those hoods

 

[Ruran]

MF is Young Xehanort. Yes, he's one of the Darknesses.

 

[JustSnilloc]

Alright, I read this a couple times, but I'm finally able to respond to this...

I hearby nominate Mysterious Figure from BBS as one of the 13 darknesses. I do this because of who I believe he is: MX's Nobody.

And here is where we start getting off track (not a good sign, but that's alright). The Mysterious Figure from BbS is the same person as Young Master Xehanort that we see in Dream Drop Distance. As the name implies, Young Master Xehanort is simply Master Xehanort in his youth.

Created when Terra used MX's Keyblade to remove both their hearts.

Terra never used MX's keyblade to remove both of their hearts.

Hence, the second time MX had his heart removed in Radiant Garden, not the first time at the Keyblade Graveyard.

MX removed his own heart from his own body with his own keyblade at the Keyblade Graveyard so that he could inhabit Terra's body. The second time MX has a heart extraction is while he is inhabiting (and controlling) Terra's heart. This is during the time that AX "goes crazy" calling himself "Ansem" and turning all the apprentices into Nobodies. And again he does this to himself.

Heartless may not have been prominent in BBS, but they did exist, so it stands to reason Nobodies did too. Nobodies are created when a person loses their heart to darkness.

Half right. Nobodies are created when a strong hearted person loses their heart and their body is left without a heart. What happens is the heart leaves an imprint on the body that keeps it alive... Exceptionally strong hearts leave exceptionally strong imprints and thus the nobody will seem hardly different than the original person (see Org. XIII)

The first time, MX transferred his heart straight into Terra, so nothing was created.

If anything was created, this would have been the time when it was created... This is because of what I explained above. Xehanort's body would have been left without a heart and his heart would have left an imprint.

The second time they both definately lost their hearts to darkness. It is entirely possible that a Heartless was created, but with Aqua sending Terra back in mere moments we never saw it.

Going into the Realm of Darkness =/= losing your heart to darkness, it's an entirely different process.

Even if it spawned in the real world. Imagine a Heartless puttering around for maybe a minute, then transforming back into Terra, just like Sora did in KHI.

That's not at all what happened in KH1.

Sora lost his heart to darkness because he used the PoH Keyblade, that released the darkness in his heart which quickly consumed him and turned him into a heartless. Sora ran around as a heartless for a while until Kairi rescued him and purified his heart, in the same instant, she also gave him a new body via Princess Magic.

Or two Heartless, since it was both Terra and MX. On the other hand, a Nobody is created from the body, not # of hearts, so just one Nobody would've been created.

Actually since they were hearts inside of each other, if they became a heartless it would have created a single heartless with two hearts (making for double the darkness). And yes, they did created one Nobody, that Nobody was named Xemnas... This wasn't during the event with Aqua however, this happened around the time AX started going by "Ansem"

Also, given the evidence, it would seem that Ansem, Seeker of Darkness isn't a heartless at all. Thus explaining a great number of things.

And since this Nobody was created from Terra's body, that explains why MF is not a hunched-over old man. And if I remember correctly, Nobodies do not age, so it is entirely plausible for MF to exist to this day.

You remember somewhat correctly, without a heart the aging process doesn't occur, and as stated before, MF isn't a Nobody.

Now for the obvious one: those blades of his. They may look different, but are clearly similar to Xemnas's light blades. Two different Nobodies, created from the same person, wielding similar weapons. Sounds good.

Since MF isn't a Nobody and is Xehanort in his youth, it's actually from Xehanort that Xemnas gets the ethereal blades. The reason we never see Master Xehanort wield them is because the keyblade is much more powerful.

As I sit here writing this, I just had a huge revelation. Another reason why MF has to be under one of those cloaks in the throne room. The answer is one word: memories. We all know what happened to Sora. He got his memories tampered with, then Roxas took them into himself (and of course Xion). And unless that Nobody returns to their Somebody, or is destroyed, those memories stay with that Nobody. Now bear with me here. Let's assume when MF was created, he took most of MX's and Terra's memories. Since both Terra and MX were fighting for control inside of Terranort, their hearts in a "sleep" of sorts, both were unable to assert control and regain said memories. If one of them had regained control right away, as Sora did when he came back, the memory loss might not have been permanent. When MX finally breaks out in the beginning of DDD, he had little to no idea who he was. So he went a little nuts, attacked everyone in sight, starting calling himself Ansem, and unleashed the darkness, probably on accident. And when Xemnas was created, he barely had any memories either, because the bulk of both MX and Terra's memories were still with MF. This explains Xemnas's memory loss! You could think of Xemnas as Roxas, and MF as Xion, as they are caught up in similar situations. All Xemnas had left were a few scattered memories from both Terra and MX. MX's were the more "prominent" of the memories (as MX was stronger than Terra), leading Xemnas to continue experimenting on the heart and basically doing lots of evil stuff, while Terra's lingering memories led him to talk to Aqua's armor in ROS, calling her "friend"!

Apprentice Xehanort was faking the memory loss, it never happened, no memories were ever "lost". Xemnas was well aware of pretty much everything as well.

Then, DDD comes along. We are shown two things. First, Roxas meets Sora and shares all of his own memories with Sora. So, a Nobody is capable of willingly sharing their own memories with their Somebody. And two, when MX materializes, he clearly has all his memories back. So, in YMX's travelings to gather all of MX's "clones", he of course finds MF. MF is brought to TWTNW. Terra's body has been resurrected on the dark side as well. And finally, both Terra and MX are able to regain their lost memories, though Terra is unable to break free of MX. As for MF, he remains to fight on the dark side as a part of MX, much like Xemnas and Ansem SOD.

I'm not even sure how to respond to this...

Honestly, all that just flowed out of me, not what I planned to write at all. But a Nobody holding on to all MX/Terranort/Xemnas's memories explains everything, not least because it is exactly what happened to Sora with Roxas and Xion. So *cough*, THAT is why MF is under one of those hoods

It's an interesting theory... but it also has more holes in it than solid material. Master Xehanort may have a nobody that he created when he entered into Terra's body. But MF was YMX. If MX created a nobody, we haven't seen it yet.

 

[towerofpowerxx]

Hmmm, yes, not knowing that MF's indentity had been revealed debunks my theory before it even has a chance to exit the starting gate By the way, where does it say that? Did I miss a Nomura interview, or perhaps not read the Ultimania closely enough?

 

[JustSnilloc]

It was one of the interviews before DDD came out, while all we had were just trailers... Let's see, alright finally found it after 30+ minutes

- In Fantasia as well as other worlds, a golden eyed person wearing a black coat appears, who is he?

Nomura: He is the mysterious man who appeared in Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Final Mix as a boss who manipulated time. Just who he is will be told in KH3D. Everywhere he goes, a few people of the darkness turn up, like how Vanitas came out in the trailer.

 

[Japinha]

I was discussing the ending of KH3D with a friend, and one of the points was whether it was Braig and Isa OR Xigbar and Saix in WNG. Since YX refers to Xigbar as Xigbar (and I later realized that one of the tracks on the OST is called "Xigbar"), it wouldn't make any sense if it was Braig sitting there. And, because the one who Axel referred to as Isa had his X-shaped scar between his eyes, I believe that he was actually still Saix.

How does this connect to the 13 Darknesses? It's a long shot (maybe too long), but... the other ex-Organization XIII members who came back as whole beings in Radiant Garden did not see Braig or Isa when they woke up, right? It could be that YX took them before the others came to their senses; but if they're still Nobodies, it could be that they weren't in RG simply because they didn't return to their former selves, which would mean their Heartless are still around... since Xehanort had a heart strong enough to create a Heartless that retained much of his appearance, and given that Xigbar - and probably Saix as well - are half-Xehanorts, maybe their Heartless also look like their complete selves and are hiding under their cloaks.

EDIT: One could argue that at the time their Nobodies were created, they were not yet in the process of becoming Xehanort, so their Heartless can't be as powerful as Ansem SoD was in order to keep AX's looks... but it has never been mentioned that the changes made on a Nobody do not influence the Heartless.

 

[JustSnilloc]

I was discussing the ending of KH3D with a friend, and one of the points was whether it was Braig and Isa OR Xigbar and Saix in WNG. Since YX refers to Xigbar as Xigbar (and I later realized that one of the tracks on the OST is called "Xigbar"), it wouldn't make any sense if it was Braig sitting there. And, because the one who Axel referred to as Isa had his X-shaped scar between his eyes, I believe that he was actually still Saix.

No, that's definitely Braig and Isa (the somebodies). When everyone had been reconstructed as Somebodies, they all should have showed up in Radiant Garden, Lea questions where they could possibly be... As it turned out, those that weren't present were busy being part of the new organization.

The reason they may still go by Xigbar or Saix is to show allegiance to Xehanort - the "X" in their names signifies that. The reason Isa still has the "X" shaped scar on his face is because he had received that scar prior to becoming a Nobody.

How does this connect to the 13 Darknesses? It's a long shot (maybe too long), but... the other ex-Organization XIII members who came back as whole beings in Radiant Garden did not see Braig or Isa when they woke up, right? It could be that YX took them before the others came to their senses;

Maybe not Young Xehanort, but someone definitely came and got them (assuming they didn't do so on their own). That's what Lea starts to get suspicious of

but if they're still Nobodies, it could be that they weren't in RG simply because they didn't return to their former selves, which would mean their Heartless are still around...

Since we see them in TWTNW, we have to assume that they either a) Time Traveled to get there, or b) Are somebodies again, or c) both

If their heartless' were never destroyed, that would needlessly complicate things. Not to mention I'm pretty sure Nomura has confirmed in an interview that they were indeed Braig and Isa as opposed to Xigbar and Saix

since Xehanort had a heart strong enough to create a Heartless that retained much of his appearance, and given that Xigbar - and probably Saix as well - are half-Xehanorts, maybe their Heartless also look like their complete selves and are hiding under their cloaks.

I doubt it, if you read my "Ansem, Seeker of Darkness - Analysis" topic, you'll see why. However, pretending that Ansem was a heartless, he was beyond exceptional, you're not going to see that more than once - There are just too many unique circumstances surrounding him.

As for their Heartless being part of the organization, I really doubt that too... Not even Ansem SoD is part of the organization by himself, he's part of the organization in the form he took when he stole Riku's body.

EDIT: One could argue that at the time their Nobodies were created, they were not yet in the process of becoming Xehanort, so their Heartless can't be as powerful as Ansem SoD was in order to keep AX's looks... but it has never been mentioned that the changes made on a Nobody do not influence the Heartless.

Again, Ansem SoD is beyond exceptional, unprecedented is a more accurate term. Think about it, Ansem SoD's 1 heart consists of 3 (Terra's, Master Xehanort's, Eraqus's) Apprentice Xehanort was at the level of Keyblade Master, AND you have Master Xehanort's mastery over darkness... Nobody else in the entire series even comes close to this set of circumstances