Alice's Character

[destinykh]

Why all this talk about Esmeralda? Wasn't she a hooker?

Not per se, it's just that dressing and dancing seductively was her only way to earn a living. Despite that though, her 'God Help the Outcasts' song proved that she is pure in the sense that she wishes that other people can find joy in their lives even when she has so little. That, I think is purity in its truest form.

If you think about it, the majority of the princesses aren't really all that innocent at all. I like the fact that they aren't, don't get me wrong. But they certainly aren't pure.

Agreed. The princesses have flaws, and that is why makes them human. Being truly pure would make them really boring and unrealistic. Like Smile said, we have no definition of 'purity' in KH aside from the lack of darkness, so we can debate until the cows come home and we still won't get our answer unless BBS chooses to solve the question.

 

[rajahgold]

i think they just put all the girls' names into a hat and drew them out. like, why wasnt Ariel a POH?
Alice aint even a princess

 

[Smile]

like, why wasnt Ariel a POH?

She's a fish.

Alice aint even a princess

Neither is Kairi, and for better or worse - neither is Belle. :\ she's a poor, quirky inventor's daughter.
And Cinderella isn't a princess either, not by birth. And going by what we know she was a PoH before she married her prince, so being a PoH has nothing to do with being royalty or not.

 

[Vanitas.]

She's a fish.

I probably heard it somewhere from a source but wasn't the KHI story on Atlantica suppose to be base on the Little Mermaid 2? Ariel became a full human being at that time, no?

 

[zspek09]

Square-Enix and Disney might replace the old Alice in Wonderland world with the newer remake by Tim Burton, which is released in theaters March 5th. If anything, I'd want the newer one as a world.

 

[destinykh]

I probably heard it somewhere from a source but wasn't the KHI story on Atlantica suppose to be base on the Little Mermaid 2? Ariel became a full human being at that time, no?

Definitely not. LM2 was about Ariel's daughter, Melody, so it wouldn't make sense for Atlantica's debut story to not revolve around its iconic character, namely Ariel herself. From what I hear, the original story was supposed to be base on LM1, but they had to scrap it due to time constraints. I'm pleased though since what we have know fits the main plot better.

Square-Enix and Disney might replace the old Alice in Wonderland world with the newer remake by Tim Burton, which is released in theaters March 5th. If anything, I'd want the newer one as a world.

This thread is about Alice's status as a Princess of Heart, not her world. Discuss it in the Upcoming World Thread k?

 

[Smile]

Square-Enix and Disney might replace the old Alice in Wonderland world with the newer remake by Tim Burton, which is released in theaters March 5th. If anything, I'd want the newer one as a world.

I doubt they would, seeing how, ya know, the original Alice is an established world and the character is important because she's a PoH >_>

 

[rajahgold]

Neither is Kairi, and for better or worse - neither is Belle. :\ she's a poor, quirky inventor's daughter.
And Cinderella isn't a princess either, not by birth. And going by what we know she was a PoH before she married her prince, so being a PoH has nothing to do with being royalty or not.[/QUOTE]

well. i alwats thought that Belle and Cinderella were POH because they married or fell in love with princes

 

[Muse]

well. i alwats thought that Belle and Cinderella were POH because they married or fell in love with princes

But at the time of KH1, they aren't.

Even if they weren't, that still leaves Kairi, who isn't a princess by either blood nor marriage. Unless BBS changes that with Kairi being AtW's daughter or so, the closest Kairi has at a claim at royalty would be her possibly being adopted by the mayor on DI. But even that isn't confirmed.

 

[Raz]

Ariel isn't a PoH because she has freaking dementia, falling for Ursula's scheme twice and not even remembering what happened the first time. "Finny fun" my ass.

Yeah, royalty has absolutely nothing to do with it. Cinderella was a PoH before she became a princess. Same with Belle. Alice and Kairi aren't even princesses at all. Snow White was the step-daughter of a Queen, but she marries a prince. Pretty much the only ones who were princesses from birth were Jasmine and Aurora--and she didn't even know about it until she turned sixteen.

It has something to do with a firm belief in dreams, if what Terra says about Cinderella has any stock. Cinderella, Belle, Snow White, Jasmine, and Aurora fit the bill. I guess Alice's dream could be escaping Wonderland. Shame about Ariel, though, she wanted nothing more than to be a part of the human world. :/

 

[Smile]

Snow White was the step-daughter of a Queen

Wasn't she a true Princess but then her mother died which caused for her father marrying the evil queen, and then he died?

It has something to do with a firm belief in dreams, if what Terra says about Cinderella has any stock.

I don't know if it holds for everyone though. Belle was a dreamer for books, true, but I don't think it's that much her strongest "faith". Same for Jasmine.

...though this DOES remind me of my ancient Unversed = Dreams theory. And yes I know it was explained what they are already. Remember I'm not up to date xD;

I guess Alice's dream could be escaping Wonderland.

Or, you know, believing in Wonderland at all.

Guess Wendy fails because she wanted to 'wake up' and go back to London?

 

[Raz]

Wasn't she a true Princess but then her mother died which caused for her father marrying the evil queen, and then he died?

Not really sure. Probably.

I don't know if it holds for everyone though. Belle was a dreamer for books, true, but I don't think it's that much her strongest "faith". Same for Jasmine.

...though this DOES remind me of my ancient Unversed = Dreams theory. And yes I know it was explained what they are already. Remember I'm not up to date xD;

Belle wanted (dreamed) to escape her provincial life. One could argue that Jasmine desired something similar.

Or, you know, believing in Wonderland at all.

Good point.

Guess Wendy fails because she wanted to 'wake up' and go back to London?

It fits.

 

[Smile]

Belle wanted (dreamed) to escape her provincial life. One could argue that Jasmine desired something similar.

While they might argue it's the same, I don't think it is. Cinderella believed that so long as she kept at it, her dreams'll come true so she worked hard and never complained.
Jasmine complained.
Belle complained.
They all wanted something more, yes, but Belle effectively ran away into her "dreams" by the books. Jasmine did so literally by running away from the palace.
Now we have two options. Either we have different aspects of faith here (Belle believing, the same way Cinderella did, in the goodness in people and that's why she also puts up with Gaston despite it all, because she knows that as boring as her town is, it's filled with good people and Jasmine believing in the people despite the "ranks", hence letting her see Aladdin for what he really was, prince or no prince) (and I posted a theory a while ago how Kairi could've "believed" in the Happy Ending),
or alternatively
Different approaches towards Dreams. Cinderella believed in them. Alice lived in one. Belle escaped into them.

It fits.

Would certainly make a lot of people hopefully shut up about how pure and wonderful and perfect by character the PoHs are as what qualifies them to be PoHs has nothing to do with purity of character. Meg from Hercules is realistic. Wendy is too and is well aware of her responsibilities at home and for her brothers and such.
Would certainly tie in with Kairi's grandmother's fairy tale about how the Light remained only in the Hearts of children - Meg and Wendy acted like "adults".

 

[destinykh]

If dreams really are the reason, and I really think they are, I believe Ariel has the strongest belief in her dream of all, what with her being so desperate to be part of the human world. To bad being a POH means that you can't be an animal, or even partly an animal.

 

[Smile]

If dreams really are the reason, and I really think they are, I believe Ariel has the strongest belief in her dream of all, what with her being so desperate to be part of the human world. To bad being a POH means that you can't be an animal, or even partly an animal.

Kairi's a Beaver, lol.

But I donno. With PoHness seemingly being an acquired trait, I wouldn't rule out there being rooster switches. In which case Ariel just might get her big break. Or something.
Unless, ya know, her dream was horrible. I mean,
Humans.
Ew.


EDIT: ...site staff combo! \o/ watch this get broken.

 

[destinykh]

Unless, ya know, her dream was horrible.

I don't think there are good and bad distinctions to dreams, unless they involve causing death and destruction. Besides, escaping from a provincial life isn't actually good, since it means you are bored with your life even though some people are worse off than you are and that's hardly purity is it?

 

[KHxOblivion]

Hmm, I personally thought Jane or Ariel would've been a better candidate than Alice.

 

[Smile]

Jane would've been a good choice too. Her curiosity was pure and she was kind and compassionate. She also chose to leave behind the world she knew to live with the man she loved in the world she cared for.

On the other hand it's good they didn't make her a PoH, seeing how copyright issues are what keeps Deep Jungle from making another appearance :\

 

[destinykh]

At this rate, every Disney female character would be a good POH candidate. XD

 

[Jadentheman]

I hope PoH status can change because I wanted princess tiana to be a PoH. the first black one!!