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Personally I'd way sooner have the Org playable than most of the Disney characters anyway.
This guy.
*highfives*
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Personally I'd way sooner have the Org playable than most of the Disney characters anyway.
Personally I'd way sooner have the Org playable than most of the Disney characters anyway.
I can imagine PETA's ad campaigns already...
It's odd because I agree with Chaser in the way that I would rather they have a limited cast of highly diverse people as opposed to a very big cast with some people being awfully similar in playstyle.
However, the Organization is one of the main KH cast to really differ from one another. Most of the people mentioned (SRK, TAV, RAX, maybe not Axel who could stick to chalkrams for this one) all would have to use their keyblades, which probably would hurt the diversity that they could get if they allowed the Org. members into the playing field.
I don't see how the keyblade would limit diversity other than in aspect of the weapon, seeing most Keyblade wielders have developed their own unique styles. If they made a fighting game in the same vein as Dissidia their moveset would be a little more limited, meaning there should be a larger focus on their unique aspects. I could easily see Aqua playing very different from Sora and the others.
It is almost like if there was a fighting game with nothing but swordsmen.
I don't see why Disney would say no to this now since they have included other companies in their corner including super heros and even now star wars. If Nintendo can pit Mario against Sonic then Mickey shouldn't have a problem fitting in. He has other abilies he can use as well besides being a keyblader.
Uh, and the FF Dissidia wasn't nearly "nothing but swordsmen?"
Warrior of Light, Firion (partly), Onion Knight, Cecil, Bartz (partly), Cloud, Squall, Zidane, Tidus, Lightning, Vaan (partly), Garland, Exdeath, Sephiroth, Jecht, Gabranth and Gilgamesh all fight with swords and yet have vastly different playstyles.
The Keyblade Wielders in KH are no different. Even Sora can be separated easily by focusing on his KH 2-battlestyle, so the only obstacle that would remain to be addressed is differentiating Roxas and Xion.
Seeing that Dissidia itself also had a roster of what, thirty characters, it would be no problem to include all important KH originals and still have room for some Disney.
Actually, I would say that Dissidia wasn't mostly swordsmen actually and even if it was, their swords weren't all the same type of sword. Between Cecil who used a double-edged staff, not a sword, to Squall's gunblade, there were very different types of weapons. Some were really big, heavy Buster like weapons to the double backhanded ones Zidane fights with. With the keyblades, sure you can have a playstyle like the Buster sword (just Terra) or one duel-wielder (I'd vote Roxas, that way he can be different from Xion), but for the rest of the cast, well, they might have to be similar to one of the other ones.
As for the roster, you are right, 30 is a good amount, heck, even 20 is enough for me. Which is why I think the Org. members more than ever should get in, with 30 characters, if you don't include all the Org. members, you are going to have to have a bunch of Disney characters which might not work.
When I look at Cecil that looks quite damn like a sword to me at least in EX Mode. But let's not nitpick.
Even with the Keyblade wielders we have already five different "base" styles:
1. Heavy Hitter (Terra, but Sora can also count due to his two handed strikes)
2. Fragile Speedster (Ventus, with additional backhand-wielding like Zidane and Mickey (Yoda-Style))
3. Graceful Spellcaster (Aqua, like Terra Branford in Dissidia, uses Magic more than sword)
4. Dual Wielder (Roxas)
5. Paladin (Riku, Vanitas and possibly also Lea)
Making a roster on the whim I'd probably set:
1. Sora
2. Riku
3. Terra
3. Aqua
4. Ventus
5. Roxas
6. Xion
7. Mickey
8. Donald
9. Goofy
10. Lea
11. Master Xehanort
12. Young Xehanort (with blue Ethereal blades, not Keyblade)
13. Vanitas
14. Ansem, SoD (with Guardian and probably double-bladed Soul Eater)
15. Xemnas
16. Xigbar (I guess he would play much like Laguna in Dissidia)
17. Saix
18. Maleficent
19. Pete
20. Hades
---
for the 20-character roster.
if we go for 30, add on top:
21. Eraqus
22. Larxene
23. Marluxia
24. Luxord
25. Demyx
26. Zexion
27. Lexaeus
28. Vexen
29. Xaldin
30. Another Disney Character, maybe Hercules?
While I definitely see those 5 being distinct, I can't help but feel that the basic layout of each character (not including EX mode, IDK what they'll call it, but whatever it is, Riku should definitely become Dark Riku, Sora can go into one of his forms, Xion can become one of the 4 version of her you fought as the final boss, etc.) would be only a variation on one of those 5 with those 5 characters being the extreme. That leaves Sora, Kairi, Xion, and MX all being similar with Vanitas and Riku being VERY similar (once again, not EX mode). However, I do like the roster you mentioned below as it isn't all swordsmen and the keyblade wielders are limited to 10 (I would want Lea using chalkrams, really different and they are really cool). Also, I didn't include Mickey in the 10 because he isn't like other keyblade wielders at all, what with how he played in KH2, he is Yoda haha xD
Maybe its just me, but in the 20-character roster I really hate to see so many forms of Xehanort over other original Org. members. I mean, I understand why they're there, but there are 4 forms of him out of 20 characters? That means Xehanort would take up 1/5 of the whole roster in some way, shape, or form. Also, I can see Disney maybe allowing MDG, but I'd rather SE stick away from choosing just 1 or 2 other Disney characters because then it looks like they are playing favorites, and I think that might be unfair to other properties, and come on! Which 2 would they choose (Jack, Beast, Hercules, Aladdin???) there are so many great options!!!
While I definitely see those 5 being distinct, I can't help but feel that the basic layout of each character (not including EX mode, IDK what they'll call it, but whatever it is, Riku should definitely become Dark Riku, Sora can go into one of his forms, Xion can become one of the 4 version of her you fought as the final boss, etc.) would be only a variation on one of those 5 with those 5 characters being the extreme. That leaves Sora, Kairi, Xion, and MX all being similar with Vanitas and Riku being VERY similar (once again, not EX mode). However, I do like the roster you mentioned below as it isn't all swordsmen and the keyblade wielders are limited to 10 (I would want Lea using chalkrams, really different and they are really cool). Also, I didn't include Mickey in the 10 because he isn't like other keyblade wielders at all, what with how he played in KH2, he is Yoda haha xD
Maybe its just me, but in the 20-character roster I really hate to see so many forms of Xehanort over other original Org. members. I mean, I understand why they're there, but there are 4 forms of him out of 20 characters? That means Xehanort would take up 1/5 of the whole roster in some way, shape, or form. Also, I can see Disney maybe allowing MDG, but I'd rather SE stick away from choosing just 1 or 2 other Disney characters because then it looks like they are playing favorites, and I think that might be unfair to other properties, and come on! Which 2 would they choose (Jack, Beast, Hercules, Aladdin???) there are so many great options!!!
You also need:
Leon
Cloud
Sepiroth
Tifa
I choose the characters also in terms of importance, not to mention that MX, Young Xehanort, Ansem SoD and Xemnas each fight differently, much more than say, Xion, Roxas (single wielding) and Sora do.
The other original Org-members except Xigbar, Saix and Lea are practically useless in terms of story importance (and I would also want to avoid the game to become just a playground for rabid Organisation XIII-fans).
The FF Dissidia also chose mostly main characters and villains.
I mainly proposed Hercules due to Hades being already included. If your concern is fairness towards the Disney characters I would rearrange the roster and throw out all Organisation members in the second batch (and Eraqus as well) and replace them with Disney heroes and villains.
For example I could imagine Jafar playing as a mix of the Emperor Mateus and Yuna, his Ex Mode either the Cobra or Genie form.
Why would we need FF characters to clutter up the roster?
Final Fantasy already has its own Dissidia, there's no reason to put them into the KH version.
I choose the characters also in terms of importance, not to mention that MX, Young Xehanort, Ansem SoD and Xemnas each fight differently, much more than say, Xion, Roxas (single wielding) and Sora do.
The other original Org-members except Xigbar, Saix and Lea are practically useless in terms of story importance (and I would also want to avoid the game to become just a playground for rabid Organisation XIII-fans).
The FF Dissidia also chose mostly main characters and villains.
I mainly proposed Hercules due to Hades being already included. If your concern is fairness towards the Disney characters I would rearrange the roster and throw out all Organisation members in the second batch (and Eraqus as well) and replace them with Disney heroes and villains.
For example I could imagine Jafar playing as a mix of the Emperor Mateus and Yuna, his Ex Mode either the Cobra or Genie form.
Why would we need FF characters to clutter up the roster?
Final Fantasy already has its own Dissidia, there's no reason to put them into the KH version.
It is true that MX and them all fight differently as, Dissidia is a great example, SE loves choosing the major villains and major heroes of each game, thus making SRK, TAV, RAX, and all the MX plus Vanitas and Braig (or Xigbar, I would think having an alternate costume be the other one works since they do fight the same way).
At the same time, while it is true that the Org. really does take a back seat in terms of importance, they are just too diverse I believe not to include. Based on Days, they already all have a rough idea of how they would fight, I see it it as a wasted opportunity. I mean, who else in the cast gets even close to using a shield, book, short knives, a guitar, and chalkams (given Axel uses them if he was included instead of Lea)?
As for the Disney heroes and villains, I definitely see them as a great option as well but IDK if Disney would rather them be playable fighters of take a back seat and be summons. I would love if each PoH became a summon, just throwing that out there. In terms of Disney characters, I think a bunch of them are perfect to fit in as well depending on how they are handled (considering Dissidia is very whimsical with people floating and flying everywhere, IDK how I would feel about Beast just levitating lol, why not include Ariel and Ursula...no really, why not? I would die of happiness if somehow they were playable, though unlikely) but I still think the Organization is a really easy source of creativity in terms of the roster.
Eraqus can be ditched since he is just another keyblade wielder, one who isn't all that important compared to the other ones albeit that.
Yup, if anything, maybe one day down the road if they combined Dissidia's that would be fine, but all 4 of those FF characters are already in Dissidia FF, I don't see a reason to bring them directly over to a Dissidia KH if it happened.
No one would care as long as no one gets cheated of not having their favorite character in the game.
I would say the same of why we need a bunch of Sora clones to clutter the roster as well and Xeohanort clones from DDD, but I digress on that matter.
The point is that the fans would demand at least Cloud and Leon to be in it. not only are they the main heros from their respective games. They are also the ones connected more to Sora in the series of Kingdom Hearts, so it would be natural if they were in it. (I am talking about including the updated forms not the orignal forms from Kingdom Hearts 1). Also Kingdom Hearts fanbased florished more when fans found out that Final Fantasy characters were in the games. Cloud and Leon are also wanted and demanded by fans of being in future fighting games rather they are for Nintendo or Sony. Another reason why they should be in it is becasue they know how to fight and even fought against Sora who lost greatly to them. Leaving them even as hidden characters would be a challenge for SoraKeeping them out would be a huge mistake on Square Enix's part.
The point is that the fans would demand at least Cloud and Leon to be in it. not only are they the main heros from their respective games. They are also the ones connected more to Sora in the series of Kingdom Hearts, so it would be natural if they were in it. (I am talking about including the updated forms not the orignal forms from Kingdom Hearts 1). Also Kingdom Hearts fanbased florished more when fans found out that Final Fantasy characters were in the games. Cloud and Leon are also wanted and demanded by fans of being in future fighting games rather they are for Nintendo or Sony. Another reason why they should be in it is becasue they know how to fight and even fought against Sora who lost greatly to them. Leaving them even as hidden characters would be a challenge for SoraKeeping them out would be a huge mistake on Square Enix's part.
As seen in KH 1 Ursula can survive and move on Land. Due to her obese form I could easily imagine her being as slow as ExDeath, lol.
It would come over a bit weird though if, say, Xemnas summons Goofy to shield his bravery value, lol.
Combining the Dissidia-universes would result probably in some hilarious scenes as the FF characters there are those from the original FF Universe and when Sora goes calling Squall "Leon" he would only look at that spiky-haired geek and ask: Who the heck are you?
It's funny you state the first sentence and then come up with the second one shortly after. If you played DDD and speak of favorite characters you should be well aware by now that each of the "bunch of Sora clones" as you call it has his/her very own personality and is an own individual in their own right, not to mention each having their own fanbase at hand.
Cloud and Leon are not "main heroes" in anything relating to KH, they're just cameo side characters in KH and don't hold that much of importance as the original and Disney characters. They are already in the FF Dissidia, that's why they are not needed to take space away from characters who weren't yet featured in a KH Dissidia.
You criticize me for choosing characters based on importance (I didn't even say "story"-importance, only importance in the series overall) and yet you go with the same argument for Leon and Cloud, despite their importance not even being that high.
Sorry, but that sounds a bit hypocritical so I cannot really take that seriously.
As for fans "demanding", the last time I checked around the original and Disney characters have way more of a following than the FF cameos. If FF cameos are brought up, many fans only vote on possible new ones that aren't from FF VII or VIII.
agree about the whole organization aspect, that is the exact reason I want them in the game too, diversity plus the fact that I don't know any characters in the game who could replicate what they bring to the table (I'm staring at your shield Vexen and Zexion's LexicI completely on).
However, I haven't seen any fans demand Leon or Cloud in relation to KH at all honestly I mean, I definitely agree that KH's fanbase flourished with the inclusion of FF characters, but it also flourished with the inclusion of Disney characters. Does that mean we absolutely need Belle, Ariel, Beast, Aladdin, or Jack Skellington (who are easily among Disney's most popular of all their characters) in the game as fighters? I'm under the conception that, yes, KH without FF and Disney wouldn't have gotten to far, but at this point in time, more than a decade later, KH can stand on its own I believe without the FF characters (hence why DDD even cut them out and resorted to TWEWY) but not the Disney characters.
It is true they know how to fight, and heck, given Dissidia FF, they have their own great moveset already, but I'd prefer them as DLC if anything, not one of the necessary main fighters in the roster.
I imagine her attacking be like Cloud of Darkness because of the tentacles but I would find it really funny if on the ground, she walked like she did in Little Mermaid above the surface...
This is true, it would be weird for any of the PoH to help Maleficent as well, but I think it would fit in the end because Disney characters are summons in the actual game (Simba, Genie, Tinker bell, and other I mean).
I have played the 3DS and know about the their indenties, but either way they are still clones more so than Xeohanort since most of the Sora clones, look exactly alike. You have Roxas, and Ventus who look like each other.I don't think that the "their own identity" Sephiroth was talking about was strictly physical. In terms of fighting style (which in the fighting game is the most important thing) they are all vastly different when you just compare the Sora clones. I mean, Roxas dual wields, Ven fights backhanded, Vanitas fights more like a Paladin like Riku, and Sora is a balance between those. So in that way, they would all make a lot of sense to be in the game and the reason why I'm fine with the Sora clones over the Xehanort clones is because well...each Sora clone is one of the major characters (minus Vanitas who I'm not so sure yet).
If it weren't for Leon, Sora wouldn't even know what heartless were. Helped in the the tron universe. Sora saved Cloud from Hades. Although If it weren't for Cloud, Sora wouldnt even know who Hades was. They have saved Sora's butt a bunch of times during their involvement with him especially against the heartless. Cloud even had to save Sora's ass from Sepiroth. So I don't see whey they aren't that important in the universe.
I completely agree that Leon and Cloud are important to the KH series, nobody is saying that they aren't an ounce important. However, what I think both of us are trying to do is prioritize who is more important over others and in the long run, Leon and Cloud can barely compete with the other 30 even mentioned. I mean, yes, Leon and Cloud did do all those things which majorly impacted the KH universe but at the same time, Chip and Dale are responsible for the gummi ships, without them you would never be able to traverse worlds as SDG. Does that mean they should be playable? Now they are an extreme case, but I'm just saying that I think, in the long run, Chip and Dale would probably tie if not be more important than Cloud and Leon (Sora would have learned about Hades from Hercules eventually and the heartless...well anyone could have taught him about that).
TWTNW characters were just there in my opinion but they were included in a dream world not the actual world.i don't think Noruma would cut out FF entirely. The only way Normura can cut out FF is if he drops out Radient Gardren then where would Cloud go then?
Just because they were in a dream world doesn't mean they weren't important to the series. I mean, based on that logic, anything that happened in DDD doesn't really matter because it was only in a dream world, not the actual world. Also, I don't think he could cut out FF entirely either, but I'm just showing that KH games don't depend on FF's existence and thus neither should a Dissidia.
I have played the 3DS and know about the their indenties, but either way they are still clones more so than Xeohanort since most of the Sora clones, look exactly alike. You have Roxas, and Ventus who look like each other.
I don't think that the "their own identity" Sephiroth was talking about was strictly physical. In terms of fighting style (which in the fighting game is the most important thing) they are all vastly different when you just compare the Sora clones. I mean, Roxas dual wields, Ven fights backhanded, Vanitas fights more like a Paladin like Riku, and Sora is a balance between those. So in that way, they would all make a lot of sense to be in the game and the reason why I'm fine with the Sora clones over the Xehanort clones is because well...each Sora clone is one of the major characters (minus Vanitas who I'm not so sure yet).
I completely agree that Leon and Cloud are important to the KH series, nobody is saying that they aren't an ounce important. However, what I think both of us are trying to do is prioritize who is more important over others and in the long run, Leon and Cloud can barely compete with the other 30 even mentioned. I mean, yes, Leon and Cloud did do all those things which majorly impacted the KH universe but at the same time, Chip and Dale are responsible for the gummi ships, without them you would never be able to traverse worlds as SDG. Does that mean they should be playable? Now they are an extreme case, but I'm just saying that I think, in the long run, Chip and Dale would probably tie if not be more important than Cloud and Leon (Sora would have learned about Hades from Hercules eventually and the heartless...well anyone could have taught him about that).