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(SPOILERS) KINGDOM HEARTS X[chi] - Seeds of Hope

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Published on April 8, 2016 @ 07:28 pm
Written by Cecily
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KINGDOM HEARTS X[chi] terminates service in September, and there are some things that must be resolved before that can come to pass.

What happened to Ephemera?
What is the end of the world he speaks of?
What will happen to us if that takes place?

In a new story update, all of these questions are answered. As we are finally able to enter the Foretellers' territory, we uncover many secrets that will most certainly lead us to the truth. Now the only question is, can we accept it?

As always, thanks to goldpanner for the translations!

Edit: English-subtitled videos are now available!

WARNING: The rest of this article contains major spoilers for KINGDOM HEARTS X[chi].

 

STORY 22-2
Reward: 300 Mog Medals, Ether x 10, Moogle SR+ x 5

Let's go check out the underground waterway where we last met Ephemera!

(You return with Skuld to the waterways where you last saw Ephemera.)

Skuld: This is where you last saw Ephemera? There's something secret up ahead, I'm certain of it...

(Chirithy goes to stand in your way.)

Chirithy: Are you really going to keep going in? What with the Black Garments and the dark Chirithy just now…

I've got an awful feeling about this...

(Chirithy looks down as you pat his head. Skuld suddenly speaks up, and he’s taken aback.)

Skuld: Hey you, you know the layout of the inside of this tower, don't you?

Chirithy: Y-yeah...

Skuld: Well then, lead us.

Chirithy: All right already...

But going in there really is forbidden, so we're coming right back after just a quick peek.

Skuld: I promise we will.

(You proceed further into the waterways.)

 

STORY 22-3
Reward: Potion x 10, ULT ATK Moogle x 2, ULT ASS Moogle x 2

Let's look for Ephemera inside the clocktower!

(The three of you make your way into the room you saw in your dream.)

Skuld: What is this place?

Chirithy: This is the last room… The Foreteller's room.

Skuld: I wonder if Ephemera made it here?

Chirithy: Well as you can see, nobody's here. There's nothing here…

And since we're not going to go fiddling around with the things left in here, let's go back already, like we promised. We'll be in huge trouble if anyone finds us...

Skuld: Yeah…

So there's nothing here, huh…

I almost feel like we've been sidestepped. What on earth did the dream of Ephemera mean...

(A voice calls out from behind you.)

???: What are you doing.

(You’re startled.)

All: !

(Chirithy turns around and addresses them.)

Chirithy:

Master [~]....

(The Foreteller enters. The Foreteller who appears is the one in charge of your Union unless you are in Vulpes.)

Ursus Foreteller: Aced
Anguis Foreteller: Invi
Vulpes Foreteller: Ava (but appears as Ira)
Leopardus Foreteller: Gula
Unicornis Foreteller: Ira

Skuld: Excuse us! We are looking for a friend.

Foreteller: Chirithy, how were they allowed to get in here if you were accompanying them?

Chirithy: I'm sorry...

(The Foreteller walks past you, speaking aloud.)

Foreteller: There was another trespasser in here a few days ago. Your friend, perhaps?

Player: Yes.

Skuld: Do you know him, then--Ephemera?

Foreteller: The union he belonged to was gathering Lux in direct conflict with the goals of we [Union].

He got close to you in order to gather intelligence on our union. There's no way you will be seeing him again.

Skuld: You didn't…

Not Ephemera...

Foreteller: ...I had him disappear.

(You and Skuld are speechless. Chirithy turns to you with concern.)

Chirithy: [Player]...

Skuld: You won't get away with this...

Foreteller: What do you think you're going to do?

(Chirithy stops Skuld and begs the Foreteller for mercy.)

Chirithy: No, Skuld, you can't!

Master [Foreteller]! 

I'm the one responsible for everything that's happened today!

Please forgive these two!

(You step in front of Skuld and Chirithy.)

Chirithy: [Player]...

Player: Master, until today, I have devoted myself to the union, to gathering light, in order to save the world. I've even competed against fellow fighters I think of as friends. I thought it was just what had to be done to save the world, and I've tried not to dwell on what that means. But, in the middle of that, someone asked me that same simple question.

That person was Ephemera.

My encounter with him only lasted a moment, and he even broke a promise to me, so my memories of him aren't exactly fun, but they are huge and important in my heart.

I'm sure that's because he is my friend. For a friend like that to be snatched away....

Even if these feelings, anger and sadness, signify darkness, pushing them down is proving impossible.

Even if I cross Keyblades with you, Master, I don't think I will come away from this with any kind of peace.

Maybe I'll disappear, too.

But even so, I'm sure that if Ephemera were here, this is what he'd do…

(You get into a battle stance.)

Player: Master [Foreteller], raise your Keyblade.

(The Foreteller summons their Keyblade.)

Foreteller: Come.

Skuld: [Player]!!


Let's fight the Union Master!

(You put up a fight but are easily defeated by the Foreteller, and are engulfed in a blinding light. When the light fades, you find yourself back in the waterways.)

Foreteller: You avoided being swallowed by your anger and sadness--you fought well.

(The Foreteller glows and reveals themselves to be Master Ava.)

Chirithy: Lady Ava...

Ava: [Player], Skuld.

You allowed me to determine the strength of your hearts.

The Master you were just fighting, as well as the location, was an illusion I created here.

Skuld: What is the meaning of this?

Ava: As Ephemera told you in your dream, the end of this world seems to be upon us.

If all of us are swallowed up by the end of this world, that will be the end of Keyblade Wielders.

That must be avoided.

I began carrying out my own missions.

I've been preparing so that superior Keyblade Wielders, regardless of Union, will last in the next world.

Chirithy: Last… in the next world?

Skuld: This is all happening too fast…

What happened to Ephemera, then?

Ava: As I just said, this world is facing its end.

Perhaps in a way, he felt doubt and started to make inquiries because he began to feel that.

He got close to the truth faster than any other.

So, I asked him a favour. 

I asked him to guide the dandelions in my stead.

Chirithy: Dandelions?

Ava: The Keyblade Wielders that will last in the next world. They are the dandelions. They who shall not witness the end of the world.

My duty is to establish those dandelions. 

However, I must witness the end of the world.

Thus, so that he may guide those who are left for me once I'm gone,

I decided to have Ephemera wait ahead somewhere else.

Skuld: Somewhere else…

Ephemera is safe, then, right?

Ava: This world will end because among the Keyblade Wielders are some who have been swallowed by darkness.

I'm sure you've met the dark Chirithy.
He is proof.

So that the power of darkness will not persist into the next world, I give the hearts of you Keyblade Wielders a shake, and choose those who cannot be swallowed by a little darkness to be dandelions.

And so, I wish to ask you, too.
Will you join the dandelions?

Skuld: I understand.

(You stay silent. Skuld turns to you.)

Skuld: What's wrong, [Player]?

Player: But what will happen to all the other Keyblade Wielders who don't get chosen to be dandelions?

Ava: At the end, this world will face a Keyblade War.

Skuld: A Keyblade War...

Ava: It's already unavoidable...

Player: Please let me think over your offer to join the dandelions.

Skuld: [Player]!

Ava: I understand. You are under no obligations.

However, so that we don't fall into chaos, please don't speak of this.

(You return to the Fountain Plaza with Skuld and Chirithy to reflect.)

Chirithy: Why are you holding back on joining in?

If you'd said yes, you probably could be with Ephemera right now.

Player: Ephemera is an important friend, yeah.

But, the Keyblade Wielders I've fought alongside all this time are important to me, too.

Chirithy: Oh...

(Skuld glances over.)

Skuld: Can I say something?

The truth is, back when I became a Keyblade Wielder, I made a party, but no one would join me.

And then, Ephemera did.

For a while, it was just the two of us in the party, actually.

The party did grow in members after a bit, and we all got so involved in collecting Lux together...

I had less and less chances to talk to Ephemera one-on-one, and then one day,

He told me he thought I'd be okay now, and left the party.

After that, I lost myself in collecting Lux with my party members.

But, I realised my party was losing members, and in the end, I was alone again...

I think Ephemera probably kept on worrying about me even after leaving the party.

I think that's why he told me to try and meet you.

(Skuld turns to you.)

Skuld: I've realised a lot of things, thanks to you.

But, I want to see Ephemera, and thank him.

That's why I'm going to join.

(Skuld prepares to leave.)

Skuld: Let's meet again.

(You and Skuld shake hands, and you watch her leave. Later, Skuld and many other wielders gather in the plaza to meet Ava.)

Ava: Today too will involve training imitating all the missions you've completed until now.

You will relive things you have already experienced, only in a world just like a dream, in a space separate from here...

...You are the hope.

(Everyone is shocked by her words.)

Ava: Soon, the conflict will begin.

Fighters who share the same wish to protect the light, divided by nothing but a difference in Union, will make enemies of the friends they once competed with.

I myself do not know how long I can continue to guide them true.

Perhaps I will be swallowed by my own darkness, and swing my own Keyblade in the middle of the strife.

However, this battle will have no victor, everything will only be annihilated.

But, I want you, as seeds of hope, to last on.

After this, when that conflict breaks out, I want you to not participate in the battle, and instead depart for the outside world.

That is why I want you to repeat separate training every day like this.

To you I entrust the future of the Keyblade Wielders, the Realm of Light.

With your hearts guided by the key.

COMMENTS

+ Reply

Sign

April 8, 2016 @ 08:02 pmOffline

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sorry guys for the lack of pictures, i'm still at work right now

Audo

April 8, 2016 @ 08:04 pmOffline

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Sign
Skuld: The truth is, back when I became a Keyblade Wielder, I made a party, but no one would join me.

I FEEL YA GIRL

(side-note: i like how they are incorporating the gameplay into the story like this)

gosoxtim

April 8, 2016 @ 08:08 pmOffline

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sound like ava know the end is comming and she trying to save these kids

Ballad of Caius

April 8, 2016 @ 08:38 pmOffline

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Ava: Today too will involve training imitating all the missions you've completed until now.

You will relive things you have already experienced, only in a world just like a dream, in a space separate from here...

...You are the hope.

(Everyone is shocked by her words.)


Let me try to process this: the events of chi did take place in the distant past, only that we're witnessing these events through the dreams of one of the Keyblade Wielders that was turned into a dandelion.

Oracle Spockanort

April 8, 2016 @ 08:46 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius
Let me try to process this: the events of chi did take place in the distant past, only that we're witnessing these events through the dreams of one of the Keyblade Wielders that was turned into a dandelion.


I think what is happening is that chi is the actual past and Unchained X is the dream we are reliving in the Realm of Sleep.

Which would fit since Ephemera is "Unchained"...

NOMURA, I KNEW I WAS RIGHT ON MY THEORY ;A; No wonder he danced around my question in our interview.

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DavidO

April 8, 2016 @ 08:47 pmOffline

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So the lost key blade masters are actually those who Ava sent to the Realm of Light?

Blackdrazon

April 8, 2016 @ 08:53 pmOffline

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A correction: Ava doesn't step in if you belong to Vulpes. Instead, you meet Ira, who transforms into Ava later in the scene same as ever.

Sign

April 8, 2016 @ 08:59 pmOffline

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Blackdrazon
A correction: Ava doesn't step in if you belong to Vulpes. Instead, you meet Ira, who transforms into Ava later in the scene same as ever.


Ah, sorry for the confusion. That's just the list of names corresponding to the Foretellers, not who appears. I need to go make that more clear.

Hirokey123

April 8, 2016 @ 09:02 pmOffline

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Wait so how do we know that this whole game hasn't already been a dream? Like Chirithy being around has implied this place is a sleeping world. And what does it mean by "depart for the outside world"?

Ballad of Caius

April 8, 2016 @ 09:03 pmOffline

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Master Spockanort
I think what is happening is that chi is the actual past and Unchained X is the dream we are reliving in the Realm of Sleep.

Which would fit since Ephemera is "Unchained"...

NOMURA, I KNEW I WAS RIGHT ON MY THEORY ;A; No wonder he danced around my question in our interview.


Fascinating! And Nomura did say Unchained was a term we would continue to see in KH3. Could it be that it will be during KH3 that the Lost Masters will be Unchained from their sleep? But I wonder... could they be sleeping in the pods in the Twilight Mansion?

Pilinonamae

April 8, 2016 @ 09:04 pmOffline

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Thanks a lot goldpanner! So from what I got the 'dandelions' will be sent to the real world and not die in the war, in other words they get out of the dream loop. Still haven't enough to trust this though, I may be paranoid but I have a bad feeling about this.

Oracle Spockanort

April 8, 2016 @ 09:05 pmOffline

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Hirokey123
Wait so how do we know that this whole game hasn't already been a dream? Like Chirithy being around has implied this place is a sleeping world.


Dream Eaters can exist outside of the RoS as seen in KH3D with Riku and the DEs who went to save Sora in TWTNW.

I think it is safe to say that chi is the real world because it is the story that is ending and Unchained X will continue and is directly related to how Ephemera is "unchained" AKA in the RoS.

Ballad of Caius

April 8, 2016 @ 09:12 pmOffline

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Master Spockanort
Dream Eaters can exist outside of the RoS as seen in KH3D with Riku and the DEs who went to save Sora in TWTNW.

I think it is safe to say that chi is the real world because it is the story that is ending and Unchained X will continue and is directly related to how Ephemera is "unchained" AKA in the RoS.


Pretty much. Nomura also stated that Unchained was meant to add-on to chi's story.

Oracle Spockanort

April 8, 2016 @ 09:14 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius
Pretty much. Nomura also stated that Unchained was meant to add-on to chi's story.


Yup~ And again, I must share this

Exclusive Interview with Tetsuya Nomura on Kingdom Hearts 2.8 & KH3 - News - Kingdom Hearts Insider

Welcome to the spoiler~

OathkeeperRoxas XIII

April 8, 2016 @ 09:19 pmOffline

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Let me put my own two cents into this...

Let's say Daybreak Town is Keyblade Graveyard, and if all of this is a dream, could Daybreak Town be in the Realm of Sleep? And people have contacted Twilight Town's mansion to the Fair Tellers, you think something of them is still around I'm the Realm of Light?

LightUpTheSky452

April 8, 2016 @ 09:21 pmOffline

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"Even if these feelings, anger and sadness, signify darkness, pushing them down is proving impossible." Lines like this are even moreso making me think that Player is Sora. This sounds near identical to what he was talking about in Coded, when he said he couldn't let go of the hurt--even if it dragged him into the darkness--because the hurt was the only clue he had that he forgot something important. A lot of other things that Player said here remind me of Sora, actually.

So Ephemera and Skuld did have more of a relationship than what was hinted at previously. That's sweet, how he was concerned about her and all. (Though I'm still not convinced that Ephemera isn't somehow Xehanort, which would thus sour this whole thing).

Anyway, this was an amazing update. And I was staring open-mouthed the whole time I was reading this! LOL.

But it's so interesting that the "dandelions" are trying to go into someone's dreams (probably). If this really had been the distant past, I could've understood why they were trying to save themselves, but I feel like this is going to cause some problems in canon now, if they somehow get into the real world (Xehanort's plan to have another Keyblade War, probably).

And if something like this did happen in the past... I almost wonder if it was even a good idea sparing wielders, since in my mind the Keyblades have caused more bad than good, and I don't think anyone should have that much power. Not when they led (or are going to lead in Chi) to the world getting destroyed! But clearly Ava (if this also did happen in the distant past, and not just in the RoS, and this is how some Keyblade wielders did live on after the War) didn't agree with my sentiments. LOL.

Also, that part where Player says the words "Raise your Keyblade", when Ava said that to him last time when they fought, was hella epic to me:)

There's still a part of me that thinks it might not be Vulpeus/Ava, though. Now that we know she has illusion powers, how do we know we're still not seeing an illusion right now? How do we know if the other people have these powers or not? We don't atm, sadly.

Blackdrazon

April 8, 2016 @ 09:31 pmOffline

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Sign
Ah, sorry for the confusion. That's just the list of names corresponding to the Foretellers, not who appears. I need to go make that more clear.


Thanks Sign, I think that's clearer!

ShardofTruth

April 8, 2016 @ 09:32 pmOffline

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Why is everyone expecting the Dandelions to show up again? Wouldn't it make more sense that they were the children who rebuilt the world after the Keyblade War?

Thanks for the translation Goldpanner and Sign, you are the best.

gosoxtim

April 8, 2016 @ 09:36 pmOffline

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ShardofTruth
Why is everyone expecting the Dandelions to show up again? Wouldn't it make more sense that they were the children who rebuilt the world after the Keyblade War?

Thanks for the translation Goldpanner and Sign, you are the best.

yeah i was thinking that to as well

LightUpTheSky452

April 8, 2016 @ 09:37 pmOffline

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ShardofTruth
Why is everyone expecting the Dandelions to show up again? Wouldn't it make more sense that they were the children who rebuilt the world after the Keyblade War?


Yeah it would, actually=) I think a lot of us just didn't think that at first, because Chi seemed like a dream and Unchained a dream within a dream. But now that it looks like Chi's the real world, and Unchained is just one dream, you're probably right.

...
Also, I'm starting to think that Ava might be the Master of Masters. She just seems too important and powerful. I also remember when she told Player that he/she was right to think of her as the most suspicious of the Foretellers, but not for the reasons he/she thought. This update just adds so much more weight to that, I think.

...
I forgot to mention in my initial post that Chirithy trying to protect Skuld was so adorable, and just gave me all the warm fuzzies inside:D

Ballad of Caius

April 8, 2016 @ 09:46 pmOffline

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ShardofTruth
Why is everyone expecting the Dandelions to show up again? Wouldn't it make more sense that they were the children who rebuilt the world after the Keyblade War?

Thanks for the translation Goldpanner and Sign, you are the best.


This is actually a nice thought, too.

Nial

April 8, 2016 @ 09:53 pmOffline

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Master Spockanort


I think it is safe to say that chi is the real world because it is the story that is ending and Unchained X will continue and is directly related to how Ephemera is "unchained" AKA in the RoS.

maybe after browser Chi terminates we'll get to see what happens next in Unchained?

Hirokey123

April 8, 2016 @ 09:56 pmOffline

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On the other hand what if this was what Xehanort was alluding to when he said he how he knew there were more keybladers out there. How he seemed to think he could use the X-blade to start up a keyblade war at the snap of his fingers. What if Ava's living wielder storage is still around trapped in sleep and Xehanort wants to access it and use them to do another war? Maybe Xehanort's even been visiting the dream world ava made in his sleep, we never didn't get any explanation as to why Xemnas created a private room to lock himself away in and talks to himself in. Perhaps he wanted a place he could sleep in safety knowing no one would hear him talking in his sleep.

Ballad of Caius

April 8, 2016 @ 10:02 pmOffline

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Hirokey123
On the other hand what if this was what Xehanort was alluding to when he said he how he knew there were more keybladers out there. How he seemed to think he could use the X-blade to start up a keyblade war at the snap of his fingers. What if Ava's living wielder storage is still around trapped in sleep and Xehanort wants to access it and use them to do another war? Maybe Xehanort's even been visiting the dream world ava made in his sleep, we never didn't get any explanation as to why Xemnas created a private room to lock himself away in and talks to himself in. Perhaps he wanted a place he could sleep in safety knowing no one would hear him talking in his sleep.


I don't think the Champer of Repose will be relevant again, but that would be an interesting point to explore.

Oracle Spockanort

April 8, 2016 @ 10:44 pmOffline

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ShardofTruth
Why is everyone expecting the Dandelions to show up again? Wouldn't it make more sense that they were the children who rebuilt the world after the Keyblade War?

Thanks for the translation Goldpanner and Sign, you are the best.


Personally this is what I believe, but there are also so many potential plot paths that they could be building up to.

Ballad of Caius

April 8, 2016 @ 10:47 pmOffline

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Master Spockanort
Personally this is what I believe, but there are also so many potential plot paths that they could be building up to.





In all seriousness, I love how KHx and KHUx are throwing us back to the days of the series where it was fun to be left with a mystery~ :3

Oracle Spockanort

April 8, 2016 @ 10:50 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius



In all seriousness, I love how KHx and KHUx are throwing us back to the days of the series where it was fun to be left with a mystery~ :3


;A; I know! KH3D was so unfun after it finished because it felt like we could see the path they were planning to go. There was only a few mysteries to solve and those weren't worth solving since they were just "who is on what side? what is the key to return hearts?" haha

KHX and KHUX have refreshing story lines and really good writing. It makes you hope that the story doesn't ever stop xD

Ballad of Caius

April 8, 2016 @ 10:53 pmOffline

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Master Spockanort
;A; I know! KH3D was so unfun after it finished because it felt like we could see the path they were planning to go. There was only a few mysteries to solve and those weren't worth solving since they were just "who is on what side? what is the key to return hearts?" haha

KHX and KHUX have refreshing story lines and real good writing. It makes you hope that the story doesn't ever stop xD


Yeah. KH3D wasn't as sweet in terms of mystery as Days, coded or BbS.

By the way, didn't KHUx summary say something along the lines of the lore of KHUx being used for KH3, and beyond?

LightUpTheSky452

April 8, 2016 @ 10:56 pmOffline

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Hirokey123
On the other hand what if this was what Xehanort was alluding to when he said he how he knew there were more keybladers out there. How he seemed to think he could use the X-blade to start up a keyblade war at the snap of his fingers. What if Ava's living wielder storage is still around trapped in sleep and Xehanort wants to access it and use them to do another war? Maybe Xehanort's even been visiting the dream world ava made in his sleep, we never didn't get any explanation as to why Xemnas created a private room to lock himself away in and talks to himself in. Perhaps he wanted a place he could sleep in safety knowing no one would hear him talking in his sleep.


IIRC, didn't Nomura say way back in the KH1 Ultimania that there were other Keyblade wielders in other parts of the universe at that time?

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that a lot of people have used this supposed Ultimania claim to prove that the other Keyblades we see after 1 aren't a retcon.

Maybe that's how Xehanort plans to start a Keyblade War? Doesn't Vanitas say something like this in BbS? "That Key will open a door. One that leads to all worlds. And once it opens, Keyblade wielding warriors will flock here--to battle for the light within Kingdom Hearts!--and just like the legend says, the Keyblade War will begin."

Though tbh, who knows where Nomura's going with this stuff anymore? He might not even remember having said that in the KH1 Ultimania!

But at least if nothing else, hopefully he remembers Vanitas' claim in BbS. LOL.

Edit: Master Spockanort Chi does have good writing, doesn't it?=) I feel like Nomura's strongly improved on his storytelling here.

Like, instead of giving us pretty much nothing to work with--and leaving us confused for most of the game, as has been the tradition lately--and then having massive information dumps at the last world...

Chi is giving us many pieces here and there, that are working to make a bigger picture, but one that we can't completely see yet.

I feel like all the details we have gotten have been strategically placed, too.

Honestly, it reminds me of something the writers of LOST and Once Upon a Time would maybe do, and I very much approve of this style:D

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ultima-demi

April 8, 2016 @ 11:05 pmOffline

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Makes me more hopeful for the writing in kh3 now.

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Hanako

April 8, 2016 @ 11:05 pmOffline

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What if Kairi's grandma is in fact Ava or one of the Dandelions?

LightUpTheSky452

April 8, 2016 @ 11:09 pmOffline

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Hanako
What if Kairi's grandma is in fact Ava or one of the Dandelions?


If she is, in fact, Ava (even though it seems like Ava doesn't think she'll survive now?) I want to work at SE at that point, as I'll have predicted that, too:

;)

Oracle Spockanort

April 8, 2016 @ 11:11 pmOffline

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Thank Masaru Oka and Nomura for being good at their job <3

Hanako
What if Kairi's grandma is in fact Ava or one of the Dandelions?


I don't think she'd have referred to the war as a fairytale, then, and the war is supposed to be rather ancient and forgotten by most in the worlds. If Kairi's grandma was involved, it'd mean the war was barely 50-60 years old.

Ballad of Caius

April 8, 2016 @ 11:12 pmOffline

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That's an interesting theory. But KHx takes place in the distant past of the series. Perhaps she has used her power to transfer her heart from body to body...? Could it be that she is the only living being to have witnessed what happened, and has been happening, since the Keyblade War?

LightUpTheSky452

April 8, 2016 @ 11:15 pmOffline

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Master Spockanort
Thank Masaru Oka and Nomura for being good at their job <3



I don't think she'd have referred to the war as a fairytale, then, and the war is supposed to be rather ancient and forgotten by most in the worlds. If Kairi's grandma was involved, it'd mean the war was barely 50-60 years old.


Wasn't there a recent press release that said that the Keyblade War (Chi) is a hundred years before BbS? Or was that just a mistranslation that a site had? Because if so, maybe it could work. LOL. Kairi's grandma would have to be a bit over a hundred, then, but that's actually happened for people in real life.

Also, maybe she'd refer to it as a fairytale, because she doesn't want Kairi to get involved with Keyblades, since she firsthand knows the danger of them?

Not saying that I really believe this theory at all, btw, but I'm just playing devil's advocate here and trying to put together the teeny-tiniest things that could possibly make it true.

Edit: But honestly... the way that Kairi's grandmother always so happily talks about the light in the hearts of children that rebuilt the lost world--and that if Kairi's ever in danger, to let her heart shine with its light's power and push the darkness away--reminds me quite a bit of things Ava's said/planning in Chi...

Oracle Spockanort

April 8, 2016 @ 11:20 pmOffline

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LightUpTheSky452
Wasn't there a recent press release that said that the Keyblade War (Chi) is a hundred years before BbS? Or was that just a mistranslation that a site had? Because if so, maybe it could work. LOL. Kairi's grandma would have to be a bit over a hundred, then, but that's actually happened for people in real life.

Also, maybe she'd refer to it as a fairytale, because she doesn't want Kairi to get involved with Keyblades, since she firsthand knows the danger of them?

Not saying that I really believe this theory at all, btw, but I'm just playing devil's advocate here and trying to put together the teeny-tiniest things that could possibly make it true.


Personally think that was a typo in the Memorial Ultimania. 100 years would literally be like...20 years before Xehanort was born at least. You'd think there'd be some books about it? A ton of people who remember...unless we want to believe it is amnesia or something.

Time moves differently in each world but we tend to use the original worlds as our frame of reference for worlds since those seem to be on a similar, if not the exact same time axis so...yeah. 100 years is not right at all xD

faemarch

April 8, 2016 @ 11:22 pmOffline

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LightUpTheSky452
Wasn't there a recent press release that said that the Keyblade War (Chi) is a hundred years before BbS? Or was that just a mistranslation that a site had? Because if so, maybe it could work. LOL. Kairi's grandma would have to be a bit over a hundred, then, but that's actually happened for people in real life.

That was a mistranslation, it actually said "over a hundred years ago" (the original was, "100年以上"), which I take to mean "at least centuries ago". Besides, Ava really does seem to believe that she'll die.
Sign

Ava: The Keyblade Wielders that will last in the next world. They are the dandelions. They who shall not witness the end of the world.
My duty is to establish those dandelions.
However, I must witness the end of the world.
Thus, so that he may guide those who are left for me once I'm gone,
I decided to have Ephemera wait ahead somewhere else.

Audo

April 8, 2016 @ 11:22 pmOffline

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LightUpTheSky452
Wasn't there a recent press release that said that the Keyblade War (Chi) is a hundred years before BbS? Or was that just a mistranslation that a site had?

It was a magazine, not really an official source, and it said that it happened "over" a hundred years. Which is technically true since millenia is more than 100 lol.

EDIT: Oh was it in the Ultimania? I could've sworn it was a Famitsu spread on Unchained/X

LightUpTheSky452

April 8, 2016 @ 11:23 pmOffline

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Master Spockanort
Personally think that was a typo in the Memorial Ultimania. 100 years would literally be like...20 years before Xehanort was born at least. You'd think there'd be some books about it? A ton of people who remember...unless we want to believe it is amnesia or something.

Time moves differently in each world but we tend to use the original worlds as our frame of reference for worlds since those seem to be on a similar, if not the exact same time axis so...yeah. 100 years is not right at all xD


I'd thought that that was a mistranslation! Like, as little to 500-1000 years I could probably get behind. But 100 seemed way too few for that story to have turned into legend, and for no one to know the truth of what had happened.

Oracle Spockanort

April 8, 2016 @ 11:26 pmOffline

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Audo
It was a magazine, not really an official source, and it said that it happened "over" a hundred years. Which is technically true since millenia is more than 100 lol.

EDIT: Oh was it in the Ultimania? I could've sworn it was a Famitsu spread on Unchained/X


It was in the Memorial Ultimania. Give me a minute...

Edit: JK! There is a timeline in the Memorial Ultimania and I got it confused with the special KH issue with the timeline.

The timeline in the Ultimania says it is like a really long time ago xD

Anagram

April 8, 2016 @ 11:38 pmOffline

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Tbh the "outside world" comment intrigues me most. If it's one world how is there an "outside" world?

KeybladeOrder

April 8, 2016 @ 11:46 pmOffline

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LightUpTheSky452
I'd thought that that was a mistranslation! Like, as little to 500-1000 years I could probably get behind. But 100 seemed way too few for that story to have turned into legend, and for no one to know the truth of what had happened.


I personally feel that it's at least 1000 years between BBS and the Keyblade War. (My guess is closer to 8,000 but it'll probably be more like 1000 or 2000 in the actual series)

Anagram

April 8, 2016 @ 11:48 pmOffline

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KeybladeOrder
I personally feel that it's at least 1000 years between BBS and the Keyblade War. (My guess is closer to 8,000 but it'll probably be more like 1000 or 2000 in the actual series)


Ehhhh I'd go farther than that. This is an entire universe predating the current one after all.

KeybladeLordSora

April 9, 2016 @ 12:07 amOffline

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Anagram
Ehhhh I'd go farther than that. This is an entire universe predating the current one after all.

I've got it! OVER 9000 years!!!!!!

Ballad of Caius

April 9, 2016 @ 12:49 amOffline

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Anagram
Tbh the "outside world" comment intrigues me most. If it's one world how is there an "outside" world?

Here are my thoughts:



You will relive things you have already experienced,


• Although when Sora entered the Realm of Sleep, he didn't relive things he had already experienced, but rather, relived things the Sleeping Worlds experienced.



only in a world just like a dream,


• In a way you could say Sora was in a dream, in another way you could say he was in the memories of the Sleeping Worlds. He was reliving those things the Sleeping Worlds experienced through dreams.



in a space separate from here...


• The Realm of Sleep is most definitely a space separate from here.

With these arguments in mind, it leads me to think that Master Ava was referring to the Realm of Sleep when she said "outside" world.

Vaddix

April 9, 2016 @ 01:03 amOffline

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Hey everyone, I don't post often, but I noticed something and had to point it out in hopes someone sees it.

The Foretellers' names are all derived from the Latin words for the seven deadly sins.

Ava- Avaritia- Greed
Ace- Acedia- Sloth
Invi- Invidia- Envy
Gula- Gula- Gluttony
Ira- Ira- Wrath

Wikipedia Link for proof, hahah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

Edit: Obviously only five of them, we're missing Pride (Superbia) and Lust (Luxuria), but hey, it's something.

Ballad of Caius

April 9, 2016 @ 01:06 amOffline

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Vaddix
Hey everyone, I don't post often, but I noticed something and had to point it out in hopes someone sees it.

The Foretellers' names are all derived from the Latin words for the seven deadly sins.

Ava- Avaritia- Greed
Ace- Acedia- Sloth
Invi- Invidia- Envy
Gula- Gula- Gluttony
Ira- Ira- Wrath

Wikipedia Link for proof, hahah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

I knew there was something familiar about Ursus (Ira) - it's "anger" in Spanish. Also, there was a theory connecting the Foretellers with the Deadly Sins.

Vaddix

April 9, 2016 @ 01:10 amOffline

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Ballad of Caius
I knew there was something familiar about Ursus (Ira) - it's "anger" in Spanish. Also, there was a theory connecting the Foretellers with the Deadly Sins.


It's actually Unicornis that's Ira, but either way--how neat, that was already a theory out there? I haven't followed Chi super well, so I'm curious what qualities of these folks they noticed that brought on that theory.
(feeling supreme adrenaline from finally having 5 semesters of Latin and a knowledge of Catholic things come in handy)

Hirokey123

April 9, 2016 @ 01:33 amOffline

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Well in DDD Sora does dream up worlds of his memories, it's just for the most part he wasn't the one who running around in them. Which was good because if Sora got sucked into his own dream he would be closer to the abyss of sleep. That being Xehanort's plan where he forced Sora to sleep for so long that he ultimately got sucked up into his own dream and woke up there. Effectively putting him out of the reach of anyone and cutting him off from "the world above", until Xehanort went and carried his body back up to be used for sinister purposes.

Sounds like Ava is just doing a less sinister version of that. Instead of making the wielders drops so deeply they fall into the abyss of sleep, she is just putting them to sleep and having them wake up within their dream. There they'd walk around a dream daybreak town and live out their memories in perpetual stasis, unchained from the real world. It's the ultimate fallout shelter a world that is cut off from reality existing only sleep where her dandelions would be spared destruction. They then could of rebuilt the world or maybe they are in cold storage still. Personally I think the latter is the cooler direction because it's kind of unsettling to think about.

Especially because Ava's motive for doing so I don't think was very good. She wanted to preserve the keyblade and life be better off if the keyblade vanished forever.

Sign

April 9, 2016 @ 01:48 amOffline

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Re: "outside world"



Ephemera: The Lux that we are recovering is not the light of the worlds from the fairy tale. Those worlds are an illusion, like a three-dimensional projection. What we've been recovering is actually the light of this world.

...

Strictly speaking, the world we are on now is joined physically to countless existing worlds. But, it's impossible to go to all those worlds to recover Lux. So, we make worlds that never were appear here in this place. This set up is how we can actually recover the Lux of far-off places.

Oh, and! I tried investigating how the system works.

And, I'm pretty sure that the source of those illusory worlds are the Tomes of Prophecy that the Foreteller of each Union holds.

Blackdrazon

April 9, 2016 @ 01:54 amOffline

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Vaddix
It's actually Unicornis that's Ira, but either way--how neat, that was already a theory out there? I haven't followed Chi super well, so I'm curious what qualities of these folks they noticed that brought on that theory.
(feeling supreme adrenaline from finally having 5 semesters of Latin and a knowledge of Catholic things come in handy)


We've been discussing it in the walkthrough thread, just read over the past few pages and you'll see it.

Vaddix

April 9, 2016 @ 02:03 amOffline

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Fiddlesticks, here I thought I was being novel. > < Ah well, thanks for directing me there, Blackdrazon! Glad to see I'm not the only one to see this connection, at least.

radiantmemories

April 9, 2016 @ 04:00 amOffline

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The MoM is male, right? So he couldn't be Ava. But I do think it's really cool we have another female character with depth, and who is powerful and whose proactive actions have a huge impact on the plot. And this game gave us Skuld as well, so I'm extremely happy with it.

Hirokey123
Especially because Ava's motive for doing so I don't think was very good. She wanted to preserve the keyblade and life be better off if the keyblade vanished forever.


But without keyblade wielders there is no way to defeat the heartless, right? So aren't they needed?

Also, I got interested as to where the name Anguis came from, as it wasn't a translation of snake in any language, so I looked it up. It turns out it's actually a name for the slow worm, a type of limbless lizard that resembles a snake. Probably doesn't mean anything, but it's still interesting.

I agree with all the points made about the writing. It's amazing (which I definitely wasn't expecting in the beginning) and I hope they can match the quality in KH 2.8 and KH 3.

Thoughts on the plot:
So it looks like Ava isn't the traitor (or at least an actual one, she might still be considered by the other foretellers to be one) like it seemed before we got translations. I think she's telling the truth about stuff. It seemed to be a big end-game reveal, so it would be rather detrimental to the plot to say "just kidding". Plus a lot of the clues seem to fit, and there is still lots of mystery, which is almost always the case when actual reveals are made. Answers in this series always lead to more questions.

It looks like the player still hasn't made it to the tower. Though now there doesn't seem to be an in-game reason to go there so we probably won't find out what's in it, at least in X. I bet it still holds some secrets though. Maybe some of them will be revealed in Back Cover, since that focuses on the behind-the-scenes stuff the foretellers are doing. (Also, maybe the illusion of the tower was created by Ava's tome, since it can create illusions of places. Or can it only create illusions of worlds? If it was the tome that was responsible, and it enabled Ava to change her appearance as well, then it has bad implications, ones that make the theories about heartless actually being illusions of other players seem even more plausible. But then I'm not sure that really fits in with the direction they seem to be taking things.)

If there is meant to be a trio that Skuld and Ephermera are a part of, I would say that the player is the trio's third member. Though I would prefer if that wasn't the case, as I would rather they didn't make every friendship into a trio. That's been done enough, in my opinion.

Lots of new things to spectulate over, which is exciting.

kingofgame981

April 9, 2016 @ 04:03 amOffline

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Anagram
Tbh the "outside world" comment intrigues me most. If it's one world how is there an "outside" world?


When I read about this part, my mind keep thinking about the theory of many universes exist together (maybe because I read too many comics lol) with different timeline beside the one we have been experienced from the past titles.

And that what Ava did to the Dandelions cause some of them separated to each universe, some stayed together, and somehow it got involve with the "time travel", because as we have seen from many KH titles, anything could happen. So for example if Kairi's grandmother theory about she is truly a witness, the time travel did bring her time skip from maybe 1000 years into a few number of years. That is why the story about the world once a big light and got broken, children rebuilt it as one sounds like a tale. And Xehanort/Eraque's Master also got involve into this somehow.

Goldpanner

April 9, 2016 @ 06:21 amOffline

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Master Spockanort
It was in the Memorial Ultimania. Give me a minute...

Edit: JK! There is a timeline in the Memorial Ultimania and I got it confused with the special KH issue with the timeline.

The timeline in the Ultimania says it is like a really long time ago xD


faemarch
That was a mistranslation, it actually said "over a hundred years ago" (the original was, "100年以上"), which I take to mean "at least centuries ago". Besides, Ava really does seem to believe that she'll die.


That's here, in this Famitsu article, and it's not mistranslated, just widely misremembered.

Oracle Spockanort

April 9, 2016 @ 06:33 amOffline

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GP I edited your link. It was literally creating an endless stream of pop-ups for me and wasn't KHI's URL for some reason despite being the right page D:

Goldpanner

April 9, 2016 @ 06:41 amOffline

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D: Whoa that's weird... Thank you for fixing it!! I'll look into why that happened...

Hirokey123

April 9, 2016 @ 07:31 amOffline

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radiantmemories
But without keyblade wielders there is no way to defeat the heartless, right? So aren't they needed?


They can be destroyed through purification, a powerful enough light can do the job. But look at BBS times the heartless were basically a non existent presence. Had Xehanort never went around tutoring Disney villains in darkness and never done the heartless experiments the heartless would of remained harmless. Heck if just left alone the heartless are actually pretty useless as they aren't intelligent to do things like find hearts of worlds without someone to guide them. Basically it all comes back to Xehanort who is only in the position to do these things because of the keyblade. The keyblade is what would enable his time travel shenanigans causing his young self to leave the island. Being taken in by a keyblade order was what granted Xehanort a path to immense power and knowledge to do all his evil deeds.

Basically instead of just letting all the wielders kills themselves off so the keyblade would vanish from the world. Instead she is trying to preserve the keyblade and the act of preserving the keyblade is now why the world is faced with a second keyblade war. The world of been better off if keyblades went away as it was the easiest way to make sure there never be another keyblade war.

Sign

April 9, 2016 @ 11:00 amOffline

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subbed videos added to the OP it is 4 am goodbye world

Alpha Baymax

April 9, 2016 @ 11:22 amOffline

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Hold on a second, if Ava is derived from the word Greed, surely her ultimate motive is out of greed? A part of me feels as though the whole "travel like Dandelions" procedure with 20 Keyblade Wielders is a means of depleting members from other Unions so that Ava/Vulpeus have the upper hand in the collection of Lux?

Ballad of Caius

April 9, 2016 @ 11:24 amOffline

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Sign
subbed videos added to the OP it is 4 am goodbye world


lol thanks Sign. :] Visuals add to the drama emanating from the text. xP :thumbsup:

Alpha Baymax
Hold on a second, if Ava is derived from the word Greed, surely her ultimate motive is out of greed? A part of me feels as though the whole "travel like Dandelions" procedure with 20 Keyblade Wielders is a means of depleting members from other Unions so that Ava/Vulpeus have the upper hand in the collection of Lux?

That's an interesting take. Perhaps she wants to be the victor of the Keyblade War, even if the world will be consumed anyways...?

Edit:

The top of the tower is the Foreteller's room, the same room we see in glorious 3D and HD in Back Cover. o3o

Alpha Baymax

April 9, 2016 @ 11:30 amOffline

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Ballad of Caius

That's an interesting take. Perhaps she wants to be the victor of the Keyblade War, even if the world will be consumed anyways...?


Truth be told, I think all the Foretellers are equally greedy. It just so happens that Ava/Vulpeus has the upper hand right now. Kairi's Grandma did state that the greed for the light entered darkness into the worlds.

Ballad of Caius

April 9, 2016 @ 11:32 amOffline

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Alpha Baymax
Truth be told, I think all the Foretellers are equally greedy. It just so happens that Ava/Vulpeus has the upper hand right now. Kairi's Grandma did state that the greed for the light entered darkness into the worlds.


So maybe Ava was the drop that spilled the cup. Maybe the Keyblade War was an inevitable event, but Ava accelerated it.

...or perhaps Ava is secretly the Master of Masters and she has been enacting her plan to plunge the world into darkness all this time?

Edit:

The [Player] making the decision of not joining the dandelions makes sense. That way, the writers can avoid making a cannon representation of him/her.

Edit, 2:

After watching the last scene, I kinda concur with Master Spock about KHUx being the dream version of KHx. Perhaps KHx's ending is directly leading into KHUx...?

Extra

April 9, 2016 @ 01:18 pmOffline

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The Foretellers' names are all derived from the Latin words for the seven deadly sins.



Ava- Avaritia- Greed


Ace- Acedia- Sloth


Invi- Invidia- Envy


Gula- Gula- Gluttony


Ira- Ira- Wrath


[FONT=arial]In reply to the remainder of Vaddix's post, i have figured out one [/FONT]

[FONT=arial]possibility.
[/FONT]

we're missing Pride (Superbia) and Lust (Luxuria)


[FONT=arial]

What is the main aim of the player, emphasised on in the beginning of the game. In KH

[FONT=century gothic]

x

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial]

we are told to collect Lux, the fragments of light held by the Heartless. Considering that everyone wants them, as it is the driving force behind the Factions, it ties into your discovery rather well.

[/FONT]

Ballad of Caius

April 9, 2016 @ 01:24 pmOffline

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Extra

The Foretellers' names are all derived from the Latin words for the seven deadly sins.



Ava- Avaritia- Greed


Ace- Acedia- Sloth


Invi- Invidia- Envy


Gula- Gula- Gluttony


Ira- Ira- Wrath


[FONT=arial]In reply to the remainder of Vaddix's post, i have figured out one [/FONT]

[FONT=arial]possibility.
[/FONT]

we're missing Pride (Superbia) and Lust (Luxuria)


[FONT=arial]

What is the main aim of the player, emphasised on in the beginning of the game. In KH

[FONT=century gothic]

x

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial]

we are told to collect Lux, the fragments of light held by the Heartless. Considering that everyone wants them, as it is the driving force behind the Factions, it ties into your discovery rather well.

[/FONT]


Could the Master of the Hircus (goat) Union be the pride deadly sin? Possibly named Superbia?

Joker'sHeartless

April 9, 2016 @ 03:19 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius
Could the Master of the Hircus (goat) Union be the pride deadly sin? Possibly named Superbia?

I think they'd be Lust, as in the lust for power and knowledge that drives one to bring the world to war

FudgemintGuardian

April 9, 2016 @ 03:32 pmOffline

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I've been so distracted by Unchained I haven't really been here.

Now let's see what happens in this upd-



Skuld: This is all happening too fast…

You're telling me!

I, uh, wow. Okay, uh jeez where to start?
FIVE MONTHS! The original Chi is ending in five months. I was surprised by that but I feel I really shouldn't be considering 2.8 (and therefor Back Cover) is coming later this year (and I'll guess November since I'm thinking it. Two months after the shutdown and Final Fantasy XV sounds about right.)

Player giving I speech while Dearly Beloved plays. ;~;

Ava gathering "dandelions."

This is all so much to take in.

Dandelions....
I didn't think much of it when dandelions first showed up, but this talk of seeds made me think of Xehanort, though it's different from what he's doing.

BlackOsprey

April 9, 2016 @ 03:34 pmOffline

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Alpha Baymax
Hold on a second, if Ava is derived from the word Greed, surely her ultimate motive is out of greed? A part of me feels as though the whole "travel like Dandelions" procedure with 20 Keyblade Wielders is a means of depleting members from other Unions so that Ava/Vulpeus have the upper hand in the collection of Lux?

Eh, I wouldn't say that the Foretellers' natures necessarily reflect the sin that their name and animal represents. So far, I haven't seen anything that made Ursus look particularly lazy, or Leopardos exceptionally gluttonous.

KeybladeLordSora

April 9, 2016 @ 03:53 pmOffline

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FudgemintGuardian
I've been so distracted by Unchained I haven't really been here.

Now let's see what happens in this upd-



Skuld: This is all happening too fast…

You're telling me!

I, uh, wow. Okay, uh jeez where to start?
FIVE MONTHS! The original Chi is ending in five months. I was surprised by that but I feel I really shouldn't be considering 2.8 (and therefor Back Cover) is coming later this year (and I'll guess November since I'm thinking it. Two months after the shutdown and Final Fantasy XV sounds about right.)

Player giving I speech while Dearly Beloved plays. ;~;

Ava gathering "dandelions."

This is all so much to take in.

Dandelions....
I didn't think much of it when dandelions first showed up, but this talk of seeds made me think of Xehanort, though it's different from what he's doing.
I want to learn more about all this. I NEED TO LEARN MORE.

BlackOsprey

April 9, 2016 @ 04:08 pmOffline

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KeybladeLordSora
I want to learn more about all this. I NEED TO LEARN MORE.

Hm, I think we now have some insight on Xehanort's obsession with the Keyblade War.

Ballad of Caius

April 9, 2016 @ 04:29 pmOffline

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Joker'sHeartless
I think they'd be Lust, as in the lust for power and knowledge that drives one to bring the world to war

But like one of the members stated: perhaps Lux we collect is actually supposed to signify that: lust.

FudgemintGuardian
Player giving I speech while Dearly Beloved plays. ;~;

It was pretty emotional. And I think that's another variation of Dearly Beloved we haven't heard, too. It sounds very melancholic. ;^;

FudgemintGuardian
I didn't think much of it when dandelions first showed up, but this talk of seeds made me think of Xehanort, though it's different from what he's doing.

Maybe this is where Xehanort got his idea of seeding from.

gosoxtim

April 9, 2016 @ 05:13 pmOffline

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that delovey beloved does sounds new i wonder if we going that dearly beloved for backcover or 2.8 in general?

hemmoheikkinen

April 9, 2016 @ 05:38 pmOffline

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I guess X(chi) will end with the Keyblade war destroying everything and you proceed to do things in Unchained then? Hmm, sounds very interesting. I also think that the kids Ava is collecting might be the ones who will end up being the one`s whose light rebuild the world as it`s know today.

Man, things are getting really, really interesting.

Extra

April 9, 2016 @ 05:49 pmOffline

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hemmoheikkinen
I guess X(chi) will end with the Keyblade war destroying everything and you proceed to do things in Unchained then? Hmm, sounds very interesting. I also think that the kids Ava is collecting might be the ones who will end up being the one`s whose light rebuild the world as it`s know today.


Is Skuld among these characters Ava is collecting? If so, I did some research and her name is derived from a valkyrie in Norse mythology. Apparently, she is part of a group of three that affect events in the world, with Skuld affecting the future. Perhaps this could foreshadow a greater role towards the end of chi? That would certainly add some credence to your theory. :)

Ballad of Caius

April 9, 2016 @ 06:22 pmOffline

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Extra
Is Skuld among these characters Ava is collecting? If so, I did some research and her name is derived from a valkyrie in Norse mythology. Apparently, she is part of a group of three that affect events in the world, with Skuld affecting the future. Perhaps this could foreshadow a greater role towards the end of chi? That would certainly add some credence to your theory. :)


Yes. Skuld is part of the group of chosen Keyblade Wielders to become Lady Ava's dandelions. The [Player], on the other hands, decides to stay to fight alongside his/her fellow Union members.

DoctahFaz

April 9, 2016 @ 06:42 pmOffline

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This type of stuff gets me re-excited for the KH3 plot. They really seem to be rebuilding a solid foundation that seemed to be damaged a bit after DDD.

LightUpTheSky452

April 9, 2016 @ 06:48 pmOffline

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Dang it, Extra! I was just about to say that about Skuld, but you totally ninja'd me. Haha:)

Anyway, as for Ava's greed... I'd have to say it's that she didn't let the Keyblade die--and even seemed to think it, and its wielders, were needed in the next world--and by doing that, she allowed the weapon that caused all of the problems we see here to pass over, and now the world's about to be destroyed in KHIII, probably.

She should've just forgotten about the Keyblade entirely. Which sounds harsh, because then that probably means she should've just let everybody die--because I don't think we've seen a way that someone can give up their Keyblade yet?

Or, at the very least, she should have told them to not keep up the Master and Apprentice thing:

That way the Keyblade wouldn't have been passed onto anyone again (though her dandelions would've been there to rebuild the lost world with the light of their hearts still), and the Masters wouldn't have been able to spread their prejudice and ideas to pupils, who ended up furthering their views into conflicts with each other.

Also, I still think Ava could be the Master of Masters. I know that Chirithy said "...My Master, he who created me", but now that we know that Vulpeus has illusion powers and has changed her appearance before (even pretending to be some of the guy foretellers in this very mission!), I'm not ruling anything out. LOL.

gosoxtim

April 9, 2016 @ 06:49 pmOffline

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Ballad of Caius
Yes. Skuld is part of the group of chosen Keyblade Wielders to become Lady Ava's dandelions. The [Player], on the other hands, decides to stay to fight alongside his/her fellow Union members.
for now though he weright if he stayed or leave but i think he will leave since unahined x is an extenion of kingdom hearts x

Extra

April 9, 2016 @ 07:05 pmOffline

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LightUpTheSky452
Dang it, Extra! I was just about to say that about Skuld, but you totally ninja'd me. Haha:)

Also, I still think Ava could be the Master of Masters. I know that Chirithy said "...My Master, he who created me", but now that we know that Vulpeus has illusion powers and has changed her appearance before (even pretending to be some of the guy foretellers in this very mission!), I'm not ruling anything out. LOL.


In reply to the first part, I certainly try to be the master of timing :biggrin:

One part I'm particularly interested in is what Chirithy said.

...My Master, he who created me

I did a bit of research, and he can technically be used to replace an ambiguous gender (i.e unaware of the person's gender). Perhaps, while Chirithy saw his master's face, he could not identify things like gender or distinct facial features. If I saw a face straight after I was born, I certainly could not identify it later on.

Arcana-Key

April 9, 2016 @ 07:47 pmOffline

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Oooh my gosh this is such a cool twist ;w; I've been following the story like an addict for a while, so to get an interesting turn like this has really made sitting through and reading translations the best.
Now I just have to wait to see what happened to these Keyblade Wielders. Did some wake up earlier and start the Keyblade training again? Did others just stay sleep until the time was right? Is this how we get the flow of Keyblade masters to the current date? I'm just-- fans self -- super excited to see how they'll work with this in the future.

I'm gonna pray for Ephemera and Skuld to show up now like...

Hirokey123

April 9, 2016 @ 08:31 pmOffline

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So here is another direction/theory I just thought of that they could go...and by thought I mean it was a chocolate-induced dream I had last night. >.> Skuld and Ephemera both bare resemblance to Braig so I guess my mind came up with this idea that Braig was their descendant. Which is to say Skuld and Ephemera were the only two wielders that managed to leave the world of unchained and return to reality, during the time when Xehanort was still a kid.

The rest of the Dandelions were all still trapped in stasis and Ephemera who was charged with leading the Dandelions by Ava needed to figure out a way to free the rest of them. To that end Skuld and Ephemera settled down together in Radiant Garden because of its similarity to Daybreak town, to do research on finding a way to free them. And though they never told anyone that they weren't from the ancient past they spread their tale around in the form of a fairytale which Kairi's grandmother heard as a child. They were never able to figure out how to free the Dandelions and eventually became too old to continue and instead passed their duties down to their bloodline, of which Braig is the most recent member of. So now it was up to Braig to free and lead the Dandelions and one day Xehanort appeared and offered him a way to do just that, and so Braig made a deal Xehanort helps him free the Dandelions and in return Braig acts as Xehanort's right hand man.

Seighart

April 9, 2016 @ 08:46 pmOffline

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Okay I skimmed through some things and ideas just kept coming so I'm going to type them up now and reread things. I assumed that the Dandelions were the kids also.

When it comes to Chi being in the real world...if so, then how are Donald, Goofy, and Mickey existing? That Mickey is from after BBS, but he still has the star shard. How are they in the past?

As far as being Unchained...I think he has to do with being immune to falling into sleep, or being able to willingly traverse the two dimensions. Being able to enter some ones dreams in the first place is a feat in its own isn't it? Eph is diving into Players and Skulds dreams somehow and giving them messages.

Perhaps...Ava and Eph are doing something similar to what Joshua was doing with Neku and the other Twewy cast members. I always thought that subplot was a little too complex for something so early in the game. Joshua=Ava with trying to using the fragments of the past to create a new world because of the "current" world being destroyed. Eph=Neku with being in said New World (Realm of Sleep) reliving things as the way they were.

The outside world comment can be pretty simple. The world had Keyblade Wielders, but what of other parts of the world? Maybe she was saying "outside world" as an example of talking about people outside of the Unions Conflict? Not everyone is a Wielder.

Ballad of Caius

April 9, 2016 @ 09:21 pmOffline

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LightUpTheSky452
Dang it, Extra! I was just about to say that about Skuld, but you totally ninja'd me. Haha:)

Anyway, as for Ava's greed... I'd have to say it's that she didn't let the Keyblade die--and even seemed to think it, and its wielders, were needed in the next world--and by doing that, she allowed the weapon that caused all of the problems we see here to pass over, and now the world's about to be destroyed in KHIII, probably.

She should've just forgotten about the Keyblade entirely. Which sounds harsh, because then that probably means she should've just let everybody die--because I don't think we've seen a way that someone can give up their Keyblade yet?

Or, at the very least, she should have told them to not keep up the Master and Apprentice thing:

That way the Keyblade wouldn't have been passed onto anyone again (though her dandelions would've been there to rebuild the lost world with the light of their hearts still), and the Masters wouldn't have been able to spread their prejudice and ideas to pupils, who ended up furthering their views into conflicts with each other.

Also, I still think Ava could be the Master of Masters. I know that Chirithy said "...My Master, he who created me", but now that we know that Vulpeus has illusion powers and has changed her appearance before (even pretending to be some of the guy foretellers in this very mission!), I'm not ruling anything out. LOL.


Why would she renounce to her Keyblade, let alone condone the extinction of Keyblade Wielders? What would happen to the human race if darkness once more entered the Realm of Light? Who, or what would protect them?

These might be the reasons as to why Lady Ava plans beyond the Keyblade War to preserve the Keyblade Wielders.

U.N. Owen

April 9, 2016 @ 10:28 pmOffline

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Extra
Is Skuld among these characters Ava is collecting? If so, I did some research and her name is derived from a valkyrie in Norse mythology. Apparently, she is part of a group of three that affect events in the world, with Skuld affecting the future. Perhaps this could foreshadow a greater role towards the end of chi? That would certainly add some credence to your theory. :)


Skuld can also be short for

Skulduggery which means trickery. But today threw that theory out the window. Maybe.

LightUpTheSky452

April 9, 2016 @ 10:31 pmOffline

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Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Aren't we all forgetting something really important here?

What was the last thing that we the players saw of Ephemera? When he got corned by that person in the Organization cloak, right?

Now, maybe there's a chance Ava stepped in and bested that person and saved Ephemera--and afterwards explained everything to him, and that's when he agreed to become one of her dandelions.

But the fact that we didn't see what happened with the Organization member, and Master Ava didn't even mention him to the Player, Skuld, and Chirithy when talking about what happened to Ephemera, is suspicious to me.

Maybe Ephemera's not safe, after all?

Unless Ava was posing to be the Organization person that he saw, for whatever reason, which kind of makes her seem all the more suspicious, tbh.

Pilinonamae

April 9, 2016 @ 10:59 pmOffline

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LightUpTheSky452
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Aren't we all forgetting something really important here?

What was the last thing that we the players saw of Ephemera? When he got corned by that person in the Organization cloak, right?

Now, maybe there's a chance Ava stepped in and bested that person and saved Ephemera--and afterwards explained everything to him, and that's when he agreed to become one of her dandelions.

But the fact that we didn't see what happened with the Organization member, and Master Ava didn't even mention him to the Player, Skuld, and Chirithy when talking about what happened to Ephemera, is suspicious to me.

Maybe Ephemera's not safe, after all?

Unless Ava was posing to be the Organization person that he saw, for whatever reason, which kind of makes her seem all the more suspicious, tbh.


Let's not forget the dream that started it all given by that unknown Chirithy, later probably the same one instigated a meeting with Ephemera after being physically affected by the darkness. And when we last saw that cat, it was a freaking Nightmare! If we assume it's Ephemera's companion, we may reconsider trusting Ava and that grey hair kid.

Anagram

April 10, 2016 @ 12:24 amOffline

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Ballad of Caius
Here are my thoughts:


• Although when Sora entered the Realm of Sleep, he didn't relive things he had already experienced, but rather, relived things the Sleeping Worlds experienced.


• In a way you could say Sora was in a dream, in another way you could say he was in the memories of the Sleeping Worlds. He was reliving those things the Sleeping Worlds experienced through dreams.


• The Realm of Sleep is most definitely a space separate from here.

With these arguments in mind, it leads me to think that Master Ava was referring to the Realm of Sleep when she said "outside" world.



Ephemera: The Lux that we are recovering is not the light of the worlds from the fairy tale. Those worlds are an illusion, like a three-dimensional projection. What we've been recovering is actually the light of this world.

...

Strictly speaking, the world we are on now is joined physically to countless existing worlds. But, it's impossible to go to all those worlds to recover Lux. So, we make worlds that never were appear here in this place. This set up is how we can actually recover the Lux of far-off places.

Oh, and! I tried investigating how the system works.

And, I'm pretty sure that the source of those illusory worlds are the Tomes of Prophecy that the Foreteller of each Union holds.


Going by this how do we know the "outside world" isn't also an illusion like the others? Ava could be lying to gather pawns for some reason.

That or these dandelions are the wielders Xehanort will revive for his war since you can't technically have a war with 20 people.

LightUpTheSky452
Dang it, Extra! I was just about to say that about Skuld, but you totally ninja'd me. Haha:)

Anyway, as for Ava's greed... I'd have to say it's that she didn't let the Keyblade die--and even seemed to think it, and its wielders, were needed in the next world--and by doing that, she allowed the weapon that caused all of the problems we see here to pass over, and now the world's about to be destroyed in KHIII, probably.

She should've just forgotten about the Keyblade entirely. Which sounds harsh, because then that probably means she should've just let everybody die--because I don't think we've seen a way that someone can give up their Keyblade yet?

Or, at the very least, she should have told them to not keep up the Master and Apprentice thing:

That way the Keyblade wouldn't have been passed onto anyone again (though her dandelions would've been there to rebuild the lost world with the light of their hearts still), and the Masters wouldn't have been able to spread their prejudice and ideas to pupils, who ended up furthering their views into conflicts with each other.

Also, I still think Ava could be the Master of Masters. I know that Chirithy said "...My Master, he who created me", but now that we know that Vulpeus has illusion powers and has changed her appearance before (even pretending to be some of the guy foretellers in this very mission!), I'm not ruling anything out. LOL.



Why would she renounce to her Keyblade, let alone condone the extinction of Keyblade Wielders? What would happen to the human race if darkness once more entered the Realm of Light? Who, or what would protect them?

These might be the reasons as to why Lady Ava plans beyond the Keyblade War to preserve the Keyblade Wielders.

Light is right in this situation. The keyblade is the source of the cause, getting rid of it would've been for the best. Keep in mind the darkness plaguing worlds now was brought on by a keyblade wielder.

Everything in the new world after the war was isolated and peaceful until a wielder, Xehanort, using both his knowledge of the keyblade and as his older self the keyblade itself he has basically caused every major conflict. The keyblade basically brought darkness back rather than protecting against it.

Yes it gives one the means to fight it but there wouldn't be a huge, universal, common enemy to combat had the keyblade went extinct.

Even the heartless which are darkness incarnate weren't able to come into the realm of light in massive numbers, or numbers enough to do harm in general, until Xehanort. The old Nort could summon a few by hand as seen in BBS and the apprentice Nort actually let them swarm in.

All of KH's major world potentially destroying conflicts were brought on by the keyblade and it's use.

Audo

April 10, 2016 @ 04:38 amOffline

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Anagram
All of KH's major world potentially destroying conflicts were brought on by the keyblade and it's use.

The Heartless Invasion was not created by the Keyblade, it was created by scientists. The Disney villains did not cast hundreds of worlds into darkness by use of the Keyblade either. The biggest problem is not the Keyblade in the New World, it's Xehanort. He's also proven that, Keyblade or not, he can cause irreparable harm. And without Keyblades, people wouldn't really be able to stand against him (or the Heartless, or the Organization, or the Nobodies and so on).

Idk, it seems a little silly to paint Keyblades as the sole source of conflict in the world, when really from what we've seen it's just been Xehanort, who happens to be a Keyblade Wielder.

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WithMapleSyrup

April 10, 2016 @ 05:56 amOffline

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What if in order to the dandelions are in the realm of sleep but have sealed away their hearts somewhere else in the realm(like inside the 7 princesses or something) so that they wouldn't age. Then they "key to return hearts" could be what yen sid tells sora to find so that he can give them back all their hearts.

Extra

April 10, 2016 @ 10:10 amOffline

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Seighart
Okay I skimmed through some things and ideas just kept coming so I'm going to type them up now and reread things. I assumed that the Dandelions were the kids also.

When it comes to Chi being in the real world...if so, then how are Donald, Goofy, and Mickey existing? That Mickey is from after BBS, but he still has the star shard. How are they in the past?


I'm sure it mentions somewhere that the Tome Of Prophecies has the power to predict and even manifest future worlds and events. Theoretically, could all the worlds we visit in Chi not actually be in existence yet, and are simply products of the Tome? After all the background of the world select screen shows pages from the Tome, ones with pictures of Heartless. Chances are that Mickey, Donald and Goofy probably don't even exist this early in the timeline, and are also products of the Tome.

Alpha Baymax

April 10, 2016 @ 10:16 amOffline

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Seighart
When it comes to Chi being in the real world...if so, then how are Donald, Goofy, and Mickey existing? That Mickey is from after BBS, but he still has the star shard. How are they in the past?

As far as being Unchained...I think he has to do with being immune to falling into sleep, or being able to willingly traverse the two dimensions. Being able to enter some ones dreams in the first place is a feat in its own isn't it? Eph is diving into Players and Skulds dreams somehow and giving them messages.

Perhaps...Ava and Eph are doing something similar to what Joshua was doing with Neku and the other Twewy cast members.


That's not the real Mickey, Donald and Goofy: they're illusions projected from The Book of Prophecies. Thing is, we haven't the slightest clue as to who's projecting those illusions. As far as Ephemera jumping into dreams is concerned, maybe he too is a Dream Eater? it's not out of the question to assume that because Riku is Sora's Dream Eater.

Sephiroth0812

April 10, 2016 @ 11:17 amOffline

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Foreteller: You avoided being swallowed by your anger and sadness--you fought well.
(The Foreteller glows and reveals themselves to be Master Ava.)
Chirithy: Lady Ava...




So do I infer correctly from this part that regardless of which "your" Foreteller is, the one confronting you is always Ava/Vulpeus in magical disguise?

If that's the case then it is worth to point out that such illusion powers are perfectly suited to be used to turn the Foretellers against each other as it allows to impersonate each one of them.
Now it remains to figure out if all Foretellers have this ability or if it is only Ava, which would be strangely fitting for her as a fox, or rather, the Kyubi-no-kitsune aka the nine-tailed-fox which is often depicted having such shapeshifting powers.




Ava: At the end, this world will face a Keyblade War.
Skuld: A Keyblade War...
Ava: It's already unavoidable...




Also an interesting bit as Ava specifically says the War is "already" unavoidable which implies that it was not always unavoidable (and thus not "Destiny"-shit) but that it came thus far due to actions taken from all parties involved.

So my assumption that by frantically trying to avert the prophecy the Foretellers themselves brought it to a point where it will become true isn't too far off.




Ava: Soon, the conflict will begin.
Fighters who share the same wish to protect the light, divided by nothing but a difference in Union, will make enemies of the friends they once competed with.
I myself do not know how long I can continue to guide them true.
Perhaps I will be swallowed by my own darkness, and swing my own Keyblade in the middle of the strife.





Well Ava, DUH, it was a throroughly stupid decision to divide those who essentially share the same wish into competing unions in the first place.
It is very easy for competitions to degrade into outright hostility when one gives the right incentives.

Ballad of Caius

April 10, 2016 @ 01:25 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812
So my assumption that by frantically trying to avert the prophecy the Foretellers themselves brought it to a point where it will become true isn't too far off.

Or perhaps Lady Ava instigated the war? Or maybe she thought that by making Unions suspect one another, that would distract them from collecting Lux, the object that could be causing the world to plunge into darkness?

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Kokoko253

April 10, 2016 @ 02:34 pmOffline

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Just a minor thought here. The real names of Unicornis, Vulpeus, Ursus and Anguis all corresponds with the sins their animal motifs symbolises. Except for Leopardos. He is supposed to be gluttuny, which could easily be something like a Boar (Porcus or Verres). Now the sin of pride should be a lion, which in latin is Leo. Leo, Leopardos. Why would Nomura choose to name one of the Fortellers Leopardos when an other animal would be more fitting and there is a possibility someone with a lion motif exists? I'm saying, what if Pride is the sixth and ha somehow killed the real Gluttony and impersonated him? Or simply I overthink stuff and either there is no Pride, or he gets a different animal. A Horse wouldn't make much sense tough, when we have a Unicorn.

LightUpTheSky452

April 10, 2016 @ 05:49 pmOffline

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Kokoko253
Just a minor thought here. The real names of Unicornis, Vulpeus, Ursus and Anguis all corresponds with the sins their animal motifs symbolises. Except for Leopardos. He is supposed to be gluttuny, which could easily be something like a Boar (Porcus or Verres). Now the sin of pride should be a lion, which in latin is Leo. Leo, Leopardos. Why would Nomura choose to name one of the Fortellers Leopardos when an other animal would be more fitting and there is a possibility someone with a lion motif exists? I'm saying, what if Pride is the sixth and ha somehow killed the real Gluttony and impersonated him? Or simply I overthink stuff and either there is no Pride, or he gets a different animal. A Horse wouldn't make much sense tough, when we have a Unicorn.


I mentioned the idea a while back, and I know another forum did just a few pages ago, so I personally don't think it's out of the question that the Sixth might be impersonating one of the Foretllers, personally:) Especially since we now know of Ava's illusion powers--that the others might have--that would make such a thing easy.

...
So, I'm trying to figure out if the names and sins work with the characters going off of the Rebirth theory.

I can't really see Kairi as greedy, honestly, unless we count her wanting to go with Sora and Riku, even though that may not be the best idea for everyone else's sake? Perhaps Naminé could count as Kairi here, for what she did to Sora in trying to bring his heart closer to her in CoM? I know that that was the Organization's fault, but still.

The only time I can imagine Aqua as envious is with her line, "The friendship between boys... it almost makes me jealous", but do you guys think that's enough?

Perhaps Ventus is gluttonous for trying to make some new friends in BbS, and somewhat trying to replace his old ones when things got bad between them? Vanitas' affinity for darkness--or even how he at first wanted the light to save him in the BbS novel, if that's at all true--could also count.

We've definitely seen Riku be wrathful towards people who've threatened his friends before, yep. That's probably the one that fits one of our current heroes the best, actually.

As for Terra being sloth... That's the one I see the least. Unless we just point out him being slow at running? LOL. Or moreover, that he's somewhat slow to figure things out and often got tricked that way?

IDK. What do you guys think?

Extra

April 10, 2016 @ 06:28 pmOffline

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Perhaps, instead of personifying the sins the Foretellers are derived from, the theoretical descendants are counterweights, parallels. Whilst Kairi is definitely not greedy, she is perhaps selfless in a way, risking her safety to redeem Sora's Heartless and return the boy to the light. Whilst not envious, Aqua was certainly content with the friendship she, Terra and Ven shared, and sought to maintain it. Ventus seemed rather moderate, not asking for much but giving plenty in return, helping others and restoring their hope. Terra was very impulsive and energetic, always acting and doing. He was always on the run from his innate darkness. And whilst he may be wrathful to his enemies, Riku does all he can to protect his friends, prevent them from coming to harm.

Audo

April 10, 2016 @ 06:32 pmOffline

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Extra
Perhaps, instead of personifying the sins the Foretellers are derived from, the theoretical descendants are counterweights, parallels. Whilst Kairi is definitely not greedy, she is perhaps selfless in a way, risking her safety to redeem Sora's Heartless and return the boy to the light. Whilst not envious, Aqua was certainly content with the friendship she, Terra and Ven shared, and sought to maintain it. Ventus seemed rather moderate, not asking for much but giving plenty in return, helping others and restoring their hope. Terra was very impulsive and energetic, always acting and doing. He was always on the run from his innate darkness. And whilst he may be wrathful to his enemies, Riku does all he can to protect his friends, prevent them from coming to harm.

I like this idea. Perhaps the connection between the Foretellers and the Present Heroes are just a symbolic one and not a literal connection. Perhaps it will be illustrated that the first Keyblade War happened and the world fell due to the nature of the Foretellers (the sins) but the Heroes in the Present will avoid the Keyblade War by exhibiting the opposite traits this time around, breaking the cycle or something.

LightUpTheSky452

April 10, 2016 @ 06:35 pmOffline

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Extra
Perhaps, instead of personifying the sins the Foretellers are derived from, the theoretical descendants are counterweights, parallels. Whilst Kairi is definitely not greedy, she is perhaps selfless in a way, risking her safety to redeem Sora's Heartless and return the boy to the light. Whilst not envious, Aqua was certainly content with the friendship she, Terra and Ven shared, and sought to maintain it. Ventus seemed rather moderate, not asking for much but giving plenty in return, helping others and restoring their hope. Terra was very impulsive and energetic, always acting and doing. He was always on the run from his innate darkness. And whilst he may be wrathful to his enemies, Riku does all he can to protect his friends, prevent them from coming to harm.


That's a good point, actually. I was thinking about that idea with Kairi, maybe--as she wouldn't have had a heart of pure light back then, and thus would have acted differently--but I think you're maybe right about it applying to everyone else, too.

In fact, going even further with Riku, if we consider Sora to have (temporarily) been one of his enemies, he was wrathful with him at first, sure. But then every other game after that he's done everything he can to make it up to him, and to protect him: the exact opposite of wrath, really.

He also gets on well with Donald and Goofy now, too, despite having been at odds with them in the past.

Extra

April 10, 2016 @ 07:27 pmOffline

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I like this idea. Perhaps the connection between the Foretellers and the Present Heroes are just a symbolic one and not a literal connection. Perhaps it will be illustrated that the first Keyblade War happened and the world fell due to the nature of the Foretellers (the sins) but the Heroes in the Present will avoid the Keyblade War by exhibiting the opposite traits this time around, breaking the cycle or something.



I didn't have that in mind at first, but now that I think about it, it makes a lot of sense. It seems that the aim of our heroes in the Dark Seeker trilogy is to 'break the cycle', and them doing so not just through their actions but also through their personalities is quite neat.

Sephiroth0812

April 10, 2016 @ 07:54 pmOffline

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Audo
I like this idea. Perhaps the connection between the Foretellers and the Present Heroes are just a symbolic one and not a literal connection. Perhaps it will be illustrated that the first Keyblade War happened and the world fell due to the nature of the Foretellers (the sins) but the Heroes in the Present will avoid the Keyblade War by exhibiting the opposite traits this time around, breaking the cycle or something.


It would certainly prevent repeating previous clichés and avoid another set of clones introduced into the fray.

Thus I would wholeheartly welcome such a more symbolic and "loosened" connection if there has to be one rather than what the "Rebirth"-Theory and its derivates propose.

gosoxtim

April 10, 2016 @ 07:55 pmOffline

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what do you guys how sora fit into stuff?

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Kokoko253

April 10, 2016 @ 08:56 pmOffline

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Extra
Perhaps, instead of personifying the sins the Foretellers are derived from, the theoretical descendants are counterweights, parallels. Whilst Kairi is definitely not greedy, she is perhaps selfless in a way, risking her safety to redeem Sora's Heartless and return the boy to the light. Whilst not envious, Aqua was certainly content with the friendship she, Terra and Ven shared, and sought to maintain it. Ventus seemed rather moderate, not asking for much but giving plenty in return, helping others and restoring their hope. Terra was very impulsive and energetic, always acting and doing. He was always on the run from his innate darkness. And whilst he may be wrathful to his enemies, Riku does all he can to protect his friends, prevent them from coming to harm.


It makes perfect sense. Masters of the past failed because they were sinful, while the current heroes stand for the seven heavenly virtues.


Kairi: Charity: Will, benevolence, generosity, sacrifice
Riku: Patience: Forgiveness, mercy, sufferance
Aqua: Kindness: Satisfaction, loyalty, compassion, integrity
Ventus: Temperance: Humanity, justice, honour, abstinence
Terra: Diligence: Persistence, fortitude, effort, ethics, rectitude


gosoxtim
what do you guys how sora fit into stuff?


I had a theory that he is the reincarnation of the sixth, and that he would have a lion motif with red as base colour. Now that we know the Fortellers are connected to the Seven Deadly Sins, the lion would fit with Pride. Going by this reverse rebirth theory, that would mean Sora is the Humility (Bravery, modesty, reverence, altruism), which fits his character. That would leave the MoM as the Lust with a goat motif.

Strangly, Lust's virtue conterpart is Chastity (Purity, knowledge, honesty, wisdom), and I think that would fit Ansem the Wise.


One question. Are the Fortellers the first Keyblade masters? I don't remember other masters mentioned in chi, but if they are the first, wouldn't that mean the first Keyblades were made slightly before them? What if the MoM made the first Keyblades? (Sorry if this was discussed before)

Venitas

April 11, 2016 @ 08:28 amOffline

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I'm trying to figure out where Xehanort comes into all of this. I think maybe he was originally one of Ava's Dandelions...maybe Ephemera is his Dream Eater? Maybe Unchained is Xehanort's dreams of his past?

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kaidoku123

April 11, 2016 @ 08:36 amOffline

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maybe the KH Protagonist don't represents the Cardinal Sins but their Reverse Cardinal Virtues (Terra is Diligent, Riku is Patient, Aqua is Kind and etc)

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kaidoku123

April 11, 2016 @ 08:39 amOffline

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LightUpTheSky452
That's a good point, actually. I was thinking about that idea with Kairi, maybe--as she wouldn't have had a heart of pure light back then, and thus would have acted differently--but I think you're maybe right about it applying to everyone else, too.

In fact, going even further with Riku, if we consider Sora to have (temporarily) been one of his enemies, he was wrathful with him at first, sure. But then every other game after that he's done everything he can to make it up to him, and to protect him: the exact opposite of wrath, really.

He also gets on well with Donald and Goofy now, too, despite having been at odds with them in the past.


The Reversal of Sin to Virtue is more likely:
Wrath=Patience, Sloth=Diligence, Envy=Kindness, Greed=Generosity, Pride=Humility, Lust=Abstinence, Gluttony=Temperance

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kaidoku123

April 11, 2016 @ 08:41 amOffline

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Also about the Lion representing Pride... I've got a Weird Idea
If the Master of Master is who I think it is (Walt Disney... I know some consider this as a Joke, I could see a Possibility)
Than what about the Story of Lion and the Mouse?
Where the Prideful Lion was saved by a Mouse after he spared the Mouse?
Also remember how Sora used to be a Lion Boy?

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kaidoku123

April 11, 2016 @ 08:42 amOffline

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LightUpTheSky452
I mentioned the idea a while back, and I know another forum did just a few pages ago, so I personally don't think it's out of the question that the Sixth might be impersonating one of the Foretllers, personally:) Especially since we now know of Ava's illusion powers--that the others might have--that would make such a thing easy.

...
So, I'm trying to figure out if the names and sins work with the characters going off of the Rebirth theory.

I can't really see Kairi as greedy, honestly, unless we count her wanting to go with Sora and Riku, even though that may not be the best idea for everyone else's sake? Perhaps Naminé could count as Kairi here, for what she did to Sora in trying to bring his heart closer to her in CoM? I know that that was the Organization's fault, but still.

The only time I can imagine Aqua as envious is with her line, "The friendship between boys... it almost makes me jealous", but do you guys think that's enough?

Perhaps Ventus is gluttonous for trying to make some new friends in BbS, and somewhat trying to replace his old ones when things got bad between them? Vanitas' affinity for darkness--or even how he at first wanted the light to save him in the BbS novel, if that's at all true--could also count.

We've definitely seen Riku be wrathful towards people who've threatened his friends before, yep. That's probably the one that fits one of our current heroes the best, actually.

As for Terra being sloth... That's the one I see the least. Unless we just point out him being slow at running? LOL. Or moreover, that he's somewhat slow to figure things out and often got tricked that way?

IDK. What do you guys think?


Ventus isn't Gluttonous, but Vanitas IS

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Ven_Roxas

April 11, 2016 @ 03:52 pmOffline

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What if the "outside world" refers to the actual book of prophecy? Like Ava transports them into the book to withstand the war, hoping in the future, they can be reawakened. Being in the book would "unchain" them from the events of the war. It's not impossible to enter a book in KH. We've seen it with pooh. And if things can be pulled from the book, it stands to reason that there could be a way to put things in the book. So in Unchained, you're playing through the story of Chi as if it was a story in a book. So basically, Chi really happens, and unchained is the story about it in the time of prophecy.
Just a thought, but a viable one imo.
We know the books still exists because Maleficent acknowledges their existence.

ThatWho_Sleeps

April 12, 2016 @ 01:22 amOffline

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Ven_Roxas
What if the "outside world" refers to the actual book of prophecy? Like Ava transports them into the book to withstand the war, hoping in the future, they can be reawakened. Being in the book would "unchain" them from the events of the war. It's not impossible to enter a book in KH. We've seen it with pooh. And if things can be pulled from the book, it stands to reason that there could be a way to put things in the book. So in Unchained, you're playing through the story of Chi as if it was a story in a book. So basically, Chi really happens, and unchained is the story about it in the time of prophecy.
Just a thought, but a viable one imo.
We know the books still exists because Maleficent acknowledges their existence.


Yeah, but even if that were a plausible case, we'd be left with too many more questions (well, not like that's uncommon in this franchise). Pooh's Storybook stands as the only example of a world inside a book, and even then we have no idea how the actual world was "born" or if it was a world turned into a book/ vice versa. Personally, I think that while the Keyblade has a huge influence in the fate of a world, creating one (by sealing people away in a book) would be a bit too much.

Also you have to remember how delicate Pooh's storybook is. Over time the book has lost its pages, and even a heartless attack has shown substantial damage to Pooh's memory. I think Ava would understand that entrusting the fate of the dandelions in a book would be too risky, especially for a cause like saving the future.

On another note, just finished this and will probably cry myself to sleep ; u ;

Sephiroth0812

April 12, 2016 @ 08:09 amOffline

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Ballad of Caius
Or perhaps Lady Ava instigated the war? Or maybe she thought that by making Unions suspect one another, that would distract them from collecting Lux, the object that could be causing the world to plunge into darkness?

The question then would be though why would Ava instigate the war?
The way she talks she seems to be very unhappy with the fact that by now the end of the world/Apocalypse, and thus the worst case scenario, seems to be completely unavoidable.

In an earlier story mission after Ava spoke with Ephemera she said this:

If the worst happens, I'll leave it to the children who aren't tied to a Union, like you.

Since an "If" is used it means that by that time of the story things apparently were not already set in stone, but something happened behind the scenes obviously between that story part and the newest one that isn't shown in either X[chi] or Unchained X, although I suspect that information like this will be covered by Back Cover in 2.8.

And now in the current story update she says something along the lines of:
"However, this battle will have no victor, everything will only be annihilated.", inferring that the whole thing does nothing but cause pointless destruction.

She may of course be an exceptional actor and cunning schemer though, true to her union animal as a fox and fox spirits are said to be exceptionally clever and love trickery.
And yet still, with the current information available I can't pinpoint a sound reason as to why Ava would go all those lengths with the dandelions to plant seeds of hope if she herself is the mastermind or the traitor instigating all this?
Well, except of course if the whole "dandelion"-project and its supposed goals are also a lie to conceal what she really wants to do with those wielders who join the project, just like the once thought primary goals of Organisation XIII were a giant deception and lie to begin with in order to conceal more sinister purposes.

Kokoko253

One question. Are the Fortellers the first Keyblade masters? I don't remember other masters mentioned in chi, but if they are the first, wouldn't that mean the first Keyblades were made slightly before them? What if the MoM made the first Keyblades? (Sorry if this was discussed before)


According to Nomura they are indeed the very first Keyblade Masters, meaning their Keyblades are either the very first set of blades crafted as copies of the X-blade or the second set if the ominuous Goat-blade predates them.

Of course it is possible that the Goat-blade is a part of this set and has not been seen or referenced yet in any x[chi] material only due to story reasons, but it is also possible that the Goat-blade is/was actually the prototype and very first Keyblade created with the Foreteller's blades based on the Goat-blade.

Tsunayoshi

April 12, 2016 @ 10:28 pmOffline

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Arcana-Key
Oooh my gosh this is such a cool twist ;w; I've been following the story like an addict for a while, so to get an interesting turn like this has really made sitting through and reading translations the best.
Now I just have to wait to see what happened to these Keyblade Wielders. Did some wake up earlier and start the Keyblade training again? Did others just stay sleep until the time was right? Is this how we get the flow of Keyblade masters to the current date? I'm just-- fans self -- super excited to see how they'll work with this in the future.

I'm gonna pray for Ephemera and Skuld to show up now like...


For some reason I got the image of a keyblade wielder waking up to a burning world in the distance xD Sorta like the "while Rome burned" type of thing. ....Yeahhhh xD

I am super curious about this plot, now more than ever. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the keyblades were originally made for "evil intentions", correct? So... were the first keyblade wielders evil? Or, like, are Sora, Riku, Kairi, Mickey, Terra, Aqua, Ven, and Lea the only "good" keyblade wielders currently? (If you don't count Equarus) is it possible that the keyblade wielders of today's 'era' were the only good ones in a long, long time?

Forgive me, my knowledge is kinda... lacking - I apologize for sounding stupid and ignorant ;w;

EDIT; I'm dumb ignore this xD

X_Riky_X

April 12, 2016 @ 11:14 pmOffline

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I got a lot of stuff in my mind after those cutscenes from chi*. First, if all this keyblade barriers are still inside the RoS, then who made the world as we know it? As mentioned in Kairis grandmother story? The question would be, where are they? For only Eraqus and Xehanort to survive? and now more than ever, who is their master? And if Ephemera is "Unchained", that sounds as if he was free from the RoS, not in it.

ThatWho_Sleeps

April 13, 2016 @ 12:59 amOffline

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Tsunayoshi
For some reason I got the image of a keyblade wielder waking up to a burning world in the distance xD Sorta like the "while Rome burned" type of thing. ....Yeahhhh xD

I am super curious about this plot, now more than ever. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but the keyblades were originally made for "evil intentions", correct? So... were the first keyblade wielders evil? Or, like, are Sora, Riku, Kairi, Mickey, Terra, Aqua, Ven, and Lea the only "good" keyblade wielders currently? (If you don't count Equarus) is it possible that the keyblade wielders of today's 'era' were the only good ones in a long, long time?

Forgive me, my knowledge is kinda... lacking - I apologize for sounding stupid and ignorant ;w;

EDIT; I'm dumb ignore this xD


Don't worry if you think you sound dumb, the lore is as complex as it gets :)

Yes, the Keyblade were originally created for less than positive reasons. The original story states that many people came to admire the X-Blade and forged their own imperfected versions in order to fight for the light. The first Keyblade wielders weren't evil per say, they just hadn't realized that their greed had bore darkness to the worlds. That being said, there's also no such thing as an "evil" or "good" Keyblade wielder, it just comes down to how we judge their goals and actions. For example, I personally can't hate Xehanort. I know he's a person who's done terrible things, but I also understand his mindset of curiousity (just not to the degree of making people kill each other though).

The current Keyblade wielders probably aren't only "good" ones left, but the only ones we know with good implications that survived today. There may be fewer Keyblade wielders currently, but there are probably other wielders out there that fight for light, dark, or maybe neither. We just don't know who they are specifically.

The ones we know currently (or this era if you wanna call it that) were not the first "good" keyblade wielders. After the Keyblade wielders created their Keyblades, they instigated the Keyblade War and brought destruction to their world and darkness to many others. The story goes that the light in the hearts of children recreated these worlds, and the surviving Keyblade wielders made it their duty to protect the light. Aqua's story in BBS also shows that Master Eraqus told her that for generations previous Keyblade Masters made it their job to protect the Land of Departure (because if it fell to darkness bad stuff happens) so we can assume that they too were "good" Keyblade wielders.

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Ven_Roxas

April 13, 2016 @ 01:07 amOffline

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Is chirithy bring a dream eater the only proof we have of the realm of sleep being used? Cause everyone is talking as if it's a definite thing. I agree that's pretty compelling evidence, but all that would tell me is that chi is a sleeping world.

WAIT! (This has probably been said)
What if daybreak town is a world between sleep and wake like TWTNW and traverse town? Then once the world is asleep, is there the potential that Ava knows this and, since time doesn't really exist in the realm of sleep, she can somehow give them the ability to leave daybreak town and enter a point in time after the keyblade war? So the keyblade war happens and the world ends up sleeping. Ava catches on and then finds a way to allow the dandelions and access the worlds as they are now. Maybe she stays because she knows that the world is continually experiencing the same events (as it is explained in DDD that dream worlds do) and wants to try to change them.

Or maybe unchained is the not sleeping part of daybreak town. It's unchained from repetition of the sleeping world and the inhabitants are unchained from their fate.

Sorry if that was confusing. Haha.

ShardofTruth

April 13, 2016 @ 09:03 amOffline

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Ven_Roxas
Is chirithy bring a dream eater the only proof we have of the realm of sleep being used? Cause everyone is talking as if it's a definite thing. I agree that's pretty compelling evidence, but all that would tell me is that chi is a sleeping world.

There is also the fact that Mickey, Donald and Goofy can visit Daybreak Town with their Gummi Ship. The sleeping worlds theory would at least explain why they enter Daybreak Town, but not why they are doing it the way they do (twice!).

Since Chirithy is the only Dream Eater we've encountered so far, I don't think [chi] is set in the sleeping world either. If anything Seeds of Hope kinda reinforced that .

Ballad of Caius

April 13, 2016 @ 09:10 amOffline

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ShardofTruth
There is also the fact that Mickey, Donald and Goofy can visit Daybreak Town with their Gummi Ship. The sleeping worlds theory would at least explain why they enter Daybreak Town, but not why they are doing it the way they do (twice!).

Since Chirithy is the only Dream Eater we've encountered so far, I don't think [chi] is set in the sleeping world either. If anything Seeds of Hope kinda reinforced that .


I like Master Spockanort's theory that KINGDOM HEARTS χ[chi] takes place in the distant past; its ending leads to Unchained χ[chi]; and Unchained is the dream recreation of Daybreak Town remembering everything through a dream.

Sephiroth0812

April 13, 2016 @ 09:34 amOffline

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Ballad of Caius
I like Master Spockanort's theory that KINGDOM HEARTS χ[chi] takes place in the distant past; its ending leads to Unchained χ[chi]; and Unchained is the dream recreation of Daybreak Town remembering everything through a dream.


In any case it would be a rather simple and easy to follow chain of events I'd say.

[strike]Probably too easy for Mr. I-want-things-surprising Nomura and thus there will be at least two more twists to make the whole thing more muddled.[/strike] :P

CrystalRaine

April 14, 2016 @ 12:12 amOffline

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Whoa guys, I was just reading on Wikipedia about the Greek God of Dreams, Morpheus, and it says

[FONT=sans-serif]'Morpheus has the ability to mimic any human form and to appear in dreams.'

[/FONT]

[FONT=sans-serif]Doesn't that sound similar to Ava, and possibly Ephemera?

[/FONT]

[FONT=sans-serif]'His true semblance is that of a winged daemon[/FONT]

[FONT=sans-serif], an imagery shared with many of his siblings.'

[/FONT]



Is that a wing I see on Ephemera's back?

Also, Morpheus is one the Oneiroi, the Daemons of Dreams:

Morpheus, the Winged God of Dreams that could take human form in dreams, and communicate messages via dreams. (Ephemera?)

Phobetor, the personification of nightmares that could create frightening dreams; he could take the shape of any animal including bears and tigers. (Chirithy/Nightmare Chirithy?)

And finally, Phantasos, who was known for creating fake dreams full of illusions. Phantasos often takes the form of a woman since his dreams usually deceive people. (Ava?)

[FONT=sans-serif]


[/FONT]

Seighart

April 14, 2016 @ 05:31 amOffline

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So would you say that the Tome can even predict someones reactions? When Donald saw Player (Or was it Mickey?) he asked him "Why do YOU have the keyblade?" or something along those lines, and Mickey questioned the world they were in as if they were traveling to a destination other than DB Town.

Alpha Baymax

April 14, 2016 @ 09:58 amOffline

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CrystalRaine
Whoa guys, I was just reading on Wikipedia about the Greek God of Dreams, Morpheus, and it says

[FONT=sans-serif]'Morpheus has the ability to mimic any human form and to appear in dreams.'

[/FONT]

[FONT=sans-serif]Doesn't that sound similar to Ava, and possibly Ephemera?

[/FONT]

[FONT=sans-serif]'His true semblance is that of a winged daemon[/FONT]

[FONT=sans-serif], an imagery shared with many of his siblings.'

[/FONT]



Is that a wing I see on Ephemera's back?

Also, Morpheus is one the Oneiroi, the Daemons of Dreams:

Morpheus, the Winged God of Dreams that could take human form in dreams, and communicate messages via dreams. (Ephemera?)

Phobetor, the personification of nightmares that could create frightening dreams; he could take the shape of any animal including bears and tigers. (Chirithy/Nightmare Chirithy?)

And finally, Phantasos, who was known for creating fake dreams full of illusions. Phantasos often takes the form of a woman since his dreams usually deceive people. (Ava?)

[FONT=sans-serif]


[/FONT]



Wow, that really is some impressive research. So not only do we have Zoroastrian mythology, we also have Greek mythology? I love the references that Nomura is using to dive into the origins of the Keyblade War. This still begs the question, who completes the Chi trio with Ephemera and Skuld?

Sephiroth0812

April 14, 2016 @ 10:12 amOffline

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Alpha Baymax
Wow, that really is some impressive research. So not only do we have Zoroastrian mythology, we also have Greek mythology? I love the references that Nomura is using to dive into the origins of the Keyblade War. This still begs the question, who completes the Chi trio with Ephemera and Skuld?


Possibly the character who is actually behind the Nightmare Chirithy, the character representing Phobetor in this reading of mythology.
Then again, CrystalRaine's reading does not make any mention of Skuld and her possible ties to the others, so in this reading the "trio" if there has to be one would be Ephemera (Morpheus), Ava (Phantasos) and Unknown character (Phobetor) with Skuld not actually being part of it.

Besides Skuld being the name of a norn from norse mythology (one of the three most important alongside Uror and Veroandi, so there might be even two trios, although this one would certainly be an all-female one) though, it can also be a short form for skulduggery, which could also fit with the notion of Phantasos.

Sorakh212

April 18, 2016 @ 03:50 pmOffline

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Well that certainly leaves us with more questions than answers! I highly anticipate seeing this whole story in its entirety most likely in KH2.8 later this year. I bet the Dandelions are what started the Land of Departure Keyblade Masters so that there could be some sense of unity focused more on the whole Keyblade lore and possibly a whole bunch of other unknown information at this time. Truly fascinating lore especially for a mobile game of all things!:tongue: Can't wait to learn more soon or in the future.

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Xias

April 18, 2016 @ 05:18 pmOffline

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Could it be that the Dandelions are related to Xehanort´s keyblade? Dandelion can be traduced to "lion teeth" and the keyblade has a lion in it.

Ballad of Caius

April 18, 2016 @ 06:49 pmOffline

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Xias
Could it be that the Dandelions are related to Xehanort´s keyblade? Dandelion can be traduced to "lion teeth" and the keyblade has a lion in it.


That's an interesting point of view. But I think the concept of dandelions is for those Keyblade Wielders to live on even after the Keyblade War and for them to repopulate the world of more Wielders.

Alpha Baymax

April 18, 2016 @ 06:50 pmOffline

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Sephiroth0812
Possibly the character who is actually behind the Nightmare Chirithy, the character representing Phobetor in this reading of mythology.
Then again, CrystalRaine's reading does not make any mention of Skuld and her possible ties to the others, so in this reading the "trio" if there has to be one would be Ephemera (Morpheus), Ava (Phantasos) and Unknown character (Phobetor) with Skuld not actually being part of it.

Besides Skuld being the name of a norn from norse mythology (one of the three most important alongside Uror and Veroandi, so there might be even two trios, although this one would certainly be an all-female one) though, it can also be a short form for skulduggery, which could also fit with the notion of Phantasos.


I really don't think we're going to have two Trio's for Kingdom Hearts X only because of the fact we're already overloaded with Key characters. The currently revealed Key characters are the following: Master Ira, Master Invi, Master Aced, Master Gula, Master Ava, the Sixth Apprentice, Master of Masters, Chirithy, Nightmare Chirithy, Ephemera and Skuld. That totals up to 11 characters. If we consider the male and female default player character as possible contributors then that would tally the character total to 13.

Knowing Nomura and his fascination for the numbers 7 and 13, I really think that one Trio would best define the X series. That being Ephemera (who represents Morpheous), Skuld (who represents Phantasos) and the Sixth Apprentice (who represents Phobetor). The Sixth Apprentice was never branded as a Foreteller because they were not given a tome of Prophecy so it's entirely plausible for them to be the Trio.

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