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Yo why doesnt Xemnas have a Keyblade?



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toniostarke

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Ok so I was looking at the ultimania flow chart of character relationships and cracking myself up over how convoluted every thing sounds when you say it out loud when I came to the relationship of Xehanort and his Nobody and Heartless. Then it dawned on me that Xemnas is kind of in the same boat as Roxas in that hes the Nobody of a keyblade weilder. But, if thats the case, shouldnt he use a keyblade instead of lasers? And if you think about it even harder, why doesnt he use TWO keyblades like Roxas? Roxas can use two keyblades cuz hes the nobody of Sora who also has Ventus's heart in him. Xemnas is pretty much in the same boat because hes the Nobody of Xehanort who stole Terra's body. But Terra's heart is still in there, so technically Xemnas has the same split heart thing Roxas has. and its not like Xehanort can't use Terra like that cuz that was the whole deal with Heartless Ansem's stand thing (whatever that was called). That was Terra's ...heart? I'm still not clear what that thing was but he could still use that thing anyway he wanted. So unless Ansem took all of Terra's heart when they split up, why didn't Xemnas do the thing?
 

bambii

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I don’t know if there’s a more recent answer, but Nomura did address this in a 2010 interview in the BBS Ultimania (see below):

-- Roxas, the "Sora + Ventus" Nobody, was able to use a Keyblade. In contrast Xemnas, the "Terra + Master Xehanort" Nobody, wasn't able to use a Keyblade. Why is this?

Nomura: I'd rather that point remain a mystery. It's possible that he intentionally wasn't using one.
Alas, that point still remains a mystery LOL. It’s entirely possible Nomura is sitting on this intentionally though - I feel like there’s still some plot left for Xemnas, given the mysterious role he was given in assembling the 4 former Org members with the “ancient Keyblade legacy” in KH3, as well as his still unrevealed plan with the mysterious Chambers of Waking and Repose
 

toniostarke

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I don’t know if there’s a more recent answer, but Nomura did address this in a 2010 interview in the BBS Ultimania (see below):



Alas, that point still remains a mystery LOL. It’s entirely possible Nomura is sitting on this intentionally though - I feel like there’s still some plot left for Xemnas, given the mysterious role he was given in assembling the 4 former Org members with the “ancient Keyblade legacy” in KH3, as well as his still unrevealed plan with the mysterious Chambers of Waking and Repose
😆🤣🤣Oh my god, I'm dying... That's such a Nomura thing to say too. What does he mean "remain a mystery"? No no no, he needs to explain this! Lord, and that was ten years ago too. I'm not entirely unconvicnced he was hoping everyone forgot about it and just moved on. I really hope he does shine some light on Xemnas cuz there is PLENTY he needs clarification on.

..."remain a mystery" he says😂 That sounds like the answer of someone who didnt think about it until just then.
 

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The organization was based on the idea that nobodies don't have hearts and that they needed to assemble Kingdom Hearts to become complete. Wielding a keyblade requires a heart, so if the other members saw Xemnas wielding one, they would immediately know that he had been bullshitting them, and that would be the end of the organization.

It also seems likely that he indeed can wield one, because who else would have stabbed Lauriam & co. in the heart to turn them into nobodies? All other sentient nobodies in the series were created that way (Roxas and Naminé by Sora, others by Xehanort), so it seems to be the only way to create them. They of course don't remember anything about it, because the process causes amnesia.

Not a very mysterious mystery, is it? :LOL:
 

AR829038

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😆🤣🤣Oh my god, I'm dying... That's such a Nomura thing to say too. What does he mean "remain a mystery"? No no no, he needs to explain this! Lord, and that was ten years ago too. I'm not entirely unconvicnced he was hoping everyone forgot about it and just moved on. I really hope he does shine some light on Xemnas cuz there is PLENTY he needs clarification on.

..."remain a mystery" he says😂 That sounds like the answer of someone who didnt think about it until just then.
I'm just gonna jump in here and say, I think the only reason Nomura said that is maybe he didn't want to accidentally infer the twist that Ansem's Guardian was actually Terra. It's almost entirely unlikely that Xemnas knew how to use a Keyblade but just intentionally didn't. (Alternatively, maybe Nomura did have something stashed away in the back of his mind at the time, but then eventually rejected the idea. This was back when BBS came out, after all, so the man had time to change up story plans.) What's more likely is what you've already said, namely that Xehanort's heart took Terra's along for the ride as his Guardian when he became Ansem, leaving Xemnas as a completely hollow vessel that happened to grow his own heart over time, leaving him without a Keyblade wielder's heart with which to use a Keyblade.

The organization was based on the idea that nobodies don't have hearts and that they needed to assemble Kingdom Hearts to become complete. Wielding a keyblade requires a heart, so if the other members saw Xemnas wielding one, they would immediately know that he had been bullshitting them, and that would be the end of the organization.

It also seems likely that he indeed can wield one, because who else would have stabbed Lauriam & co. in the heart to turn them into nobodies? All other sentient nobodies in the series were created that way (Roxas and Naminé by Sora, others by Xehanort), so it seems to be the only way to create them. They of course don't remember anything about it, because the process causes amnesia.

Not a very mysterious mystery, is it? :LOL:
The problem with that theory is, if he could have used it all along but chose not to to hide his true motives, why not drop the facade and come out with Keyblade swinging after DDD when it was revealed that the whole Nobodies-don't-have-hearts schtick was a ruse? There was no reason for him to stick to his lasers if he indeed did have access to a Keyblade past that point, so the fact that he didn't can only leave us to conclude that in fact he couldn't.
 

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The problem with that theory is, if he could have used it all along but chose not to to hide his true motives, why not drop the facade and come out with Keyblade swinging after DDD when it was revealed that the whole Nobodies-don't-have-hearts schtick was a ruse? There was no reason for him to stick to his lasers if he indeed did have access to a Keyblade past that point, so the fact that he didn't can only leave us to conclude that in fact he couldn't.
He would also need to have a keyblade in his possession. No name was available before Xehanort's recompletion, but not after it.

It is still bit of a hole though, because there are something like a few hundred of them lying around in Keyblade Graveyard. It's possible that those have lost their magic and are unusable, but then where did Roxas get his keyblades when he returned if he couldn't just pick up a couple of them from there?
 

toniostarke

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I'm just gonna jump in here and say, I think the only reason Nomura said that is maybe he didn't want to accidentally infer the twist that Ansem's Guardian was actually Terra. It's almost entirely unlikely that Xemnas knew how to use a Keyblade but just intentionally didn't. (Alternatively, maybe Nomura did have something stashed away in the back of his mind at the time, but then eventually rejected the idea. This was back when BBS came out, after all, so the man had time to change up story plans.) What's more likely is what you've already said, namely that Xehanort's heart took Terra's along for the ride as his Guardian when he became Ansem, leaving Xemnas as a completely hollow vessel that happened to grow his own heart over time, leaving him without a Keyblade wielder's heart with which to use a Keyblade.
I mean even if he didnt want to drop that bomb yet, he still had the whole "two heart Terranort" that he had established at the end of BBS. Like he showed Terra still inside Xehanort trying to fight back. But wait, I forgot that Roxas even holding a keyblade was a special case, right? Like didnt they say that since Sora's heart was so strong it left like just enough heart residue or whatever to give roxas the power to hold it? Or wait, wasn't that whole "nobodies dont have hearts" thing a lie anyway?
 

toniostarke

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He would also need to have a keyblade in his possession. No name was available before Xehanort's recompletion, but not after it.

It is still bit of a hole though, because there are something like a few hundred of them lying around in Keyblade Graveyard. It's possible that those have lost their magic and are unusable, but then where did Roxas get his keyblades when he returned if he couldn't just pick up a couple of them from there?
Thats not necessarily true though. Noname is that "metal-as-hell" keyblade with the eye in it, right? Terranort was swinging that thing around at the same time Xehanort was using it. Plus, unless Xions kingdom key is fake, she was rocking that the same time as Roxas, no?
Also, Marluxia's name is Lauriam? Huh....
 

AR829038

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He would also need to have a keyblade in his possession. No name was available before Xehanort's recompletion, but not after it.

It is still bit of a hole though, because there are something like a few hundred of them lying around in Keyblade Graveyard. It's possible that those have lost their magic and are unusable, but then where did Roxas get his keyblades when he returned if he couldn't just pick up a couple of them from there?
Xion was still able to wield the Kingdom Key during the battle at the Keyblade Graveyard despite Sora canonically using it at the same time. Not to mention, we literally see old man Xehanort with thirteen No Names when he forges the X-Blade. If Xemnas had the ability to use Xehanort's Keyblade, nothing was stopping him. He just couldn't do it. And I refuse to believe the lasers were just so much better that he decided to use them instead.

I mean even if he didnt want to drop that bomb yet, he still had the whole "two heart Terranort" that he had established at the end of BBS. Like he showed Terra still inside Xehanort trying to fight back. But wait, I forgot that Roxas even holding a keyblade was a special case, right? Like didnt they say that since Sora's heart was so strong it left like just enough heart residue or whatever to give roxas the power to hold it? Or wait, wasn't that whole "nobodies dont have hearts" thing a lie anyway?
The reason Roxas could use the Keyblade was because Ventus' heart got left behind once Sora's body became a Nobody, and Sora's released heart got its own independent body thanks to Kairi's princess of heart powers. If this residual heart thing you're talking about was ever something mentioned by Nomura, it's clearly something he chose to retcon, much like his cryptic statement about Xemnas.

Also, Marluxia's name is Lauriam? Huh....
Ah, I see SOMEbody hasn't been following the Union X story...
 
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toniostarke

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The reason Roxas could use the Keyblade was because Ventus' heart got left behind once Sora's body became a Nobody, and Sora's released heart got its own independent body thanks to Kairi's princess of heart powers. If this residual heart thing you're talking about was ever something mentioned by Nomura, it's clearly something he chose to retcon, much like his cryptic statement about Xemnas.
Oooooh, is that what Roxas's deal was? I thought it was just Sora's special heart or whatever, but nah that totally makes sense now. Thats why he looks like Ventus then, huh? I would only then wonder why he gets the Kingdom Key over Ven's Key, but I guess since hes Sora's nobody, not Vens...then he gets Soras weapon...which is tied to Sora's heart...which isnt in Roxas...but then again the Kingdom Key is the Keyblade's true form without the keychains changing its appearance......right? but then he gets oathkeeper and oblivion...
Ok but thanks for the clarity tho. I'm cleared up on why Roxas has a Keyblade and Ven's face now. But now I just have other questions that I'm not gonna really gonna worry too much about.

And yeh I completely skipped out on Union X. All I know is what was in BBS 0.2... Which I totally forgot was a thing til just now
 

AR829038

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Oooooh, is that what Roxas's deal was? I thought it was just Sora's special heart or whatever, but nah that totally makes sense now. Thats why he looks like Ventus then, huh? I would only then wonder why he gets the Kingdom Key over Ven's Key, but I guess since hes Sora's nobody, not Vens...then he gets Soras weapon...which is tied to Sora's heart...which isnt in Roxas...but then again the Kingdom Key is the Keyblade's true form without the keychains changing its appearance......right? but then he gets oathkeeper and oblivion...
Ok but thanks for the clarity tho. I'm cleared up on why Roxas has a Keyblade and Ven's face now. But now I just have other questions that I'm not gonna really gonna worry too much about.

And yeh I completely skipped out on Union X. All I know is what was in BBS 0.2... Which I totally forgot was a thing til just now
Well, the reason he gets the Kingdom Key—the REAL reason—is simply because Nomura hadn't thought of Ventus by that point. At that point in time, Roxas was just Sora's Nobody and the only reason he looked different was because all Nobodies eventually grow to look slightly different than their original personas. But now that's all been retconned, so Ventus is the new answer. There isn't really an in-world explanation why Roxas wields the Kingdom Key instead of one of Ventus' Keyblades unless the point about KK being officially the barebones default form of all Keyblades is canonically accurate, in which case that's as good an answer as I can think of.
As for why he gets Oathkeeper and Oblivion, that's because of the events of Days. Oblivion has always represented Sora's connection to Riku, and Oathkeeper has always represented his connection to Kairi. Roxas' relationship with Xion was analagous to Sora's relationship with Kairi, so when Xion passed away and returned to Roxas, her heart went into him and he gained the Oathkeeper keyblade in addition to his own, which became Oblivion because of his antagonistic relationship with Riku that had been growing throughout that game's story.
As for Union X...yeah. If I were you, I'd go on youtube and catch yourself up on that story, because it is THE single most important story regarding the future of the series. There's a LOT of CRAZY stuff that's been going on there, and it's ALL relevant to the main series. I wouldn't recommend playing it though, it really sucks. But it's free, so, the only thing it could really hurt is your time. And yeah, sorry to have spoiled it, but Marluxia's original person (Lauriam) is a major character there, along with several other characters from the main games. If you played Kingdom Hearts 3, there was a LOOOOOOOOOT in that game that tied back to Union X.
 

toniostarke

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Well, the reason he gets the Kingdom Key—the REAL reason—is simply because Nomura hadn't thought of Ventus by that point. At that point in time, Roxas was just Sora's Nobody and the only reason he looked different was because all Nobodies eventually grow to look slightly different than their original personas. But now that's all been retconned, so Ventus is the new answer. There isn't really an in-world explanation why Roxas wields the Kingdom Key instead of one of Ventus' Keyblades unless the point about KK being officially the barebones default form of all Keyblades is canonically accurate, in which case that's as good an answer as I can think of.
As for why he gets Oathkeeper and Oblivion, that's because of the events of Days. Oblivion has always represented Sora's connection to Riku, and Oathkeeper has always represented his connection to Kairi. Roxas' relationship with Xion was analagous to Sora's relationship with Kairi, so when Xion passed away and returned to Roxas, her heart went into him and he gained the Oathkeeper keyblade in addition to his own, which became Oblivion because of his antagonistic relationship with Riku that had been growing throughout that game's story.
As for Union X...yeah. If I were you, I'd go on youtube and catch yourself up on that story, because it is THE single most important story regarding the future of the series. There's a LOT of CRAZY stuff that's been going on there, and it's ALL relevant to the main series. I wouldn't recommend playing it though, it really sucks. But it's free, so, the only thing it could really hurt is your time. And yeah, sorry to have spoiled it, but Marluxia's original person (Lauriam) is a major character there, along with several other characters from the main games. If you played Kingdom Hearts 3, there was a LOOOOOOOOOT in that game that tied back to Union X.
I'm really glad you explained Roxas's whole deal, because I retained NOTHING that happened in Days. It has always been a confusing cloud of...confusion for me and I totally missed the parts where he got those two. And I'm so looking forward to learning about wha happun in X. But if its not spoiling too much, do they go into Larxene and Demyx at all? Cuz, up til now, I was half convinced those two and Marluxia were just some randos Xemnas found on the street
 

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I'm really glad you explained Roxas's whole deal, because I retained NOTHING that happened in Days. It has always been a confusing cloud of...confusion for me and I totally missed the parts where he got those two. And I'm so looking forward to learning about wha happun in X. But if its not spoiling too much, do they go into Larxene and Demyx at all? Cuz, up til now, I was half convinced those two and Marluxia were just some randos Xemnas found on the street
Happy to help.
As for UX: Larxene, yes, a little bit (you will see her original self, her name is Elrena). Demyx, no. We still have no clue where he's from, though my personal bet is Quadratum (the Verum Rex world) since that seems to be where Luxord's Somebody is from. And there's another couple people there from the main games that you won't expect. I recommend Everglow's playthrough of the story on YT. Also, be warned, there's an earlier PC Japan-only browser game called Kingdom Hearts X—Kingdom Hearts Unchained X/Union X is the sequel to that, but for a while, it plays out exactly the same for story reasons, so if you want the full picture I'd recommend a watch-through of both. Also, the story of Kingdom Hearts Dark Road seems like it has important stuff in it too.
 

toniostarke

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Happy to help.
As for UX: Larxene, yes, a little bit (you will see her original self, her name is Elrena). Demyx, no. We still have no clue where he's from, though my personal bet is Quadratum (the Verum Rex world) since that seems to be where Luxord's Somebody is from. And there's another couple people there from the main games that you won't expect. I recommend Everglow's playthrough of the story on YT. Also, be warned, there's an earlier PC Japan-only browser game called Kingdom Hearts X—Kingdom Hearts Unchained X/Union X is the sequel to that, but for a while, it plays out exactly the same for story reasons, so if you want the full picture I'd recommend a watch-through of both. Also, the story of Kingdom Hearts Dark Road seems like it has important stuff in it too.
Ah bet, I'll check it o- wait what? Luxord's from Quadratum? Where'd you get that from?
 

AR829038

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Ah bet, I'll check it o- wait what? Luxord's from Quadratum? Where'd you get that from?
Errrr.....have you played KH3 ReMIND yet? Shit, I may have just spoiled that.
Which games have you played exactly so I know what to avoid mentioning?
 

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About Xemnas and the keyblade, we already got the answer in DDD

Riku said:
You used to be a Keyblade Wielder. But darkness stole your heart, and the Keyblade with it.
Master Xehanort was out of commission during Xemnas's base existence, his heart consumed by the shadows and turned into a Heartless, unlike Sora who had been purified mere minutes after Roxas was created.

And Terra was currently being Ansem's Stand, while Ven's heart remained safe and dormant within Roxas.

Therefore, Xemnas couldn't access either keyblade as both MX and Terra's hearts had been taken by darkness, while Roxas had access to Sora's due to Kairi's purification and access to Ven's later on after the fight with Xion.
 

toniostarke

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Errrr.....have you played KH3 ReMIND yet? Shit, I may have just spoiled that.
Which games have you played exactly so I know what to avoid mentioning?
Yeh, I beat REMind, I just missed the part where THAT was implied. I'm replaying the whole game again now so I can bring oblivion to the data fights on proud mode, so ima have to pay closer attention to that part when I get there.
And, unless theres some plot relevance to that one weird cell phone game that came out back in 2003, the only one I haven't played was X.
 

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About Xemnas and the keyblade, we already got the answer in DDD



Master Xehanort was out of commission during Xemnas's base existence, his heart consumed by the shadows and turned into a Heartless, unlike Sora who had been purified mere minutes after Roxas was created.

And Terra was currently being Ansem's Stand, while Ven's heart remained safe and dormant within Roxas.

Therefore, Xemnas couldn't access either keyblade as both MX and Terra's hearts had been taken by darkness, while Roxas had access to Sora's due to Kairi's purification and access to Ven's later on after the fight with Xion.
I don't like the answer they came up with for this. If Terra's heart was inside the Guardian or something, shouldn't that thing be able to wield a Keyblade if Ansem SOD can't? Likewise what about characters born from darkness like Vanitas? Not only can he use a Keyblade, but he has his own independent of Ventus. I know he's not a Heartless but he's just as pure dark as one. The whole consumed by shadows thing is vague. One could argue Master Xehanort fits that bill, but he's still a Keyblade Master.

I'm not trying to attack you, I know you didn't write this. But I wish they gave a better reason why Xemnas doesn't wield a Keyblade.
 

toniostarke

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About Xemnas and the keyblade, we already got the answer in DDD



Master Xehanort was out of commission during Xemnas's base existence, his heart consumed by the shadows and turned into a Heartless, unlike Sora who had been purified mere minutes after Roxas was created.

And Terra was currently being Ansem's Stand, while Ven's heart remained safe and dormant within Roxas.

Therefore, Xemnas couldn't access either keyblade as both MX and Terra's hearts had been taken by darkness, while Roxas had access to Sora's due to Kairi's purification and access to Ven's later on after the fight with Xion.
So you're saying since Sora and his heart still existed at the same time Roxas was around, Roxas's ability to wield a keyblade was powered by that external heart? And based on what I picked up, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the implication of the original organization members not having hearts was a lie. But, lie or no, Xemnas just straight didnt have one?
 

toniostarke

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I don't like the answer they came up with for this. If Terra's heart was inside the Guardian or something, shouldn't that thing be able to wield a Keyblade if Ansem SOD can't? Likewise what about characters born from darkness like Vanitas? Not only can he use a Keyblade, but he has his own independent of Ventus. I know he's not a Heartless but he's just as pure dark as one. The whole consumed by shadows thing is vague. One could argue Master Xehanort fits that bill, but he's still a Keyblade Master.

I'm not trying to attack you, I know you didn't write this. But I wish they gave a better reason why Xemnas doesn't wield a Keyblade.
Oh yeah! Thats a good point and I dont know if its been stated whether or not a heartless can wield a keyblade. But, eitjer way that heartless had a heart (in a sense). Bottom line is SOMONE should've had a keyblade
 
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