Yet another stupid Unbirth Theory

[Insomniac]

Please show me where I said otherwise.

 

[DMrayZ]

I agreed with you until this point. Unbirths do not have to be Light enemies. From what we've seen in the gameplay footage they are darkness in some shape or form.

Here.

 

[metalyoshi9]

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Insomniac
I agreed with you until this point. Unbirths do not have to be Light enemies. From what we've seen in the gameplay footage they are darkness in some shape or form.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Here.

Um...they don't.
Really, we don't know one way or the other.

Moving on:

Heartless- A being with behavior that is without remorse or thought.

As you can see, this does Not indicate no remorse or thought. Rather, they are driven by one single thought, to find hearts. That is their instinct, and the only thought they possess, which is Why they feel no remorse. Next.

...Along with the whole rest of that.

He said they follow a behavior without remorse or thought.
If their behavior dictates that they seek more hearts, then they're not exactly thinking, are they?
If a person does one thing, forever, without questioning why, I would say they have no thought process. If the Heartless do but one thing...
And you said yourself they feel no remorse.

Nobody- A being who lacks identity that is held within the heart.

Now, Lets refer to the special exceptions of Nobodies. When a person with a strong will creates a Nobody, that Nobody retains Human Form, and Memories. So, in a sense, they retain Identity.

See that underlined part?
I like how you yourself admit they're exceptions, and then still have the audacity to feel high and mighty and "correct" him.

Seriously.
Your theory makes sense; it does.
But I don't like that it seems like that's all you can accept.
As I wrote at the top, we don't know what they'll be made of, so it seems insensitive that you would go as far as quoting Insomniac with THE BIGGEST LETTERS YOU CAN on a topic we really have no way of knowing.
Calm down, please.

 

[DMrayZ]

Umm, Actually, I just did that cause it was fun. And I'd admit he's right, but he Loves to go on and on and on etc.

 

[metalyoshi9]

Umm, Actually, I just did that cause it was fun. And I'd admit he's right, but he Loves to go on and on and on etc.

You do too.
That's why it kept going.

And seriously, with all due respect: saying all that with such a harsh tone only to later say "cause it was fun" shows you in a bad light.
Be sincere, at least.

 

[DMrayZ]

What exactly did I say in a harsh tone? The big giant letters thing? How is that a 'tone'? It's letters. And also, I know I go on and on, I really need to work on that. So let's drop this subject, and just stick to the theory, shall we? But as for the exceptions, The only reason they're exceptions is that the original person is strong. Which in my opinion makes that part of their nature. A good example is. Let's say we have an Animal, and all Females are one solid color, while all Males have one spot. That spot is part of the species nature. That's how I see the nobodies, as it being part of their Nature, which means that they DO have an Identity. However, the heartless part seems mostly correct, except it seems redundant to throw in 'without remorse' as if they have no thought process, that is a given.

 

[Insomniac]

But as for the exceptions, The only reason they're exceptions is that the original person is strong. Which in my opinion makes that part of their nature. That's how I see the nobodies, as it being part of their Nature, which means that they DO have an Identity. However, the heartless part seems mostly correct, except it seems redundant to throw in 'without remorse' as if they have no thought process, that is a given.

In theory everything has identity because, they exist. What is said is that they lack identity because, they lack a heart wich in the world of Kingdom Hearts gives a being idntity. Ansem the Wise himself reffered to the as "Non-Beings" so they do lack one of the most important somponents to complete a beings identity. Also Heartless truling down have thought process. As you put it it is their Nature. As stated by Sora himself he began losing his sense of self. He began acting on instinct. This is behavior showing no remorse the way I see it. I don't understand why you are so close minded to other possiblities to options that you have not thought of or stated yourself.

 

[DMrayZ]

No, I'm just saying that it makes the most logical sense that the new enemies are light based. No-one has shown me evidence to believe otherwise yet. I'm not saying that they are, or that they must be, Only that it makes the Most Logical Sense. However, I've always been hesitant to say that Sora had Absolutely no sense of self. Only because after he became a heartless, We controlled him, and the only place to go was to meet Kairi. Once they DID meet, He seemed to act much differently than all the other heartless, and then Kairi pulled him back out of the darkness. You see what I mean?

 

[Insomniac]

No, I'm just saying that it makes the most logical sense that the new enemies are light based. No-one has shown me evidence to believe otherwise yet. I'm not saying that they are, or that they must be, Only that it makes the Most Logical Sense.

I'm not trying to shoot down your idea but, almost everyone in this thread has given examples of why this makes little sense in the case of the Unbirths. I'm not saying that it's impossible but, for the moment it is unlikely. I gave you more than enough evidence to atleast allow you to question the possiblilty of your theory. In my opinion it makes little sense based on the gameplay videos.

However, I've always been hesitant to say that Sora had Absolutely no sense of self. Only because after he became a heartless, We controlled him, and the only place to go was to meet Kairi. Once they DID meet, He seemed to act much differently than all the other heartless, and then Kairi pulled him back out of the darkness. You see what I mean?

Sora did keep his sense of self. Sora said that he was losing it. He still had it but, if he had stayed a heartless much longer he would become basically a mindless creature. When I say mindless I mean it in the sense that they act on instinct opposed to thoughts and feelings.

 

[DMrayZ]

Right, But exactly what is the evidence you have that say's Unbirths are not creatures of light? I read the "darkness appears when you destroy them." But is there anything else? I just want to be sure I haven't missed anything.

 

[Insomniac]

Well before I do that because I do have a evidence why your theory isn't very likely. Could you summarize your theory so I could fully understand your point of view.

 

[DMrayZ]

Mostly, I doubt it's likely either, That's why I made sure to include the word "Stupid" in it's title. However it sums up as...

Xehanort uses his keyblade to release the hearts of people who have Not fallen to darkness, in order to use their light to create enemies called Unbirths. I believe he is able to do this because he can control light, and that the more light there is in a being, the stronger the Unbirth, which is why he seeks the BWHoPL, because they would be enormous sources of both Light and form monstrous Unbirths. (And that he plans to use their light to open the way to Kingdom Hearts ((Don't focus too much on this part please.)) )

 

[metalyoshi9]

What exactly did I say in a harsh tone? The big giant letters thing? How is that a 'tone'? It's letters.

Since we are online and have no way of actually hearing you express yourself, your writing style and text formatting denote your attitude.

But as for the exceptions, The only reason they're exceptions is that the original person is strong. Which in my opinion makes that part of their nature.

Or, then you could go onto exceptions of the exceptions like Roxas: Sora had a strong heart, but he remembers nothing. Or Namine, if she really is a Nobody at all.

A good example is. Let's say we have an Animal, and all Females are one solid color, while all Males have one spot. That spot is part of the species nature. That's how I see the nobodies, as it being part of their Nature, which means that they DO have an Identity.

In your example, it's split about half and half between M/F. Not the case with Nobodies, where most become Dusks, etc.
And they seek to become whole. And it's said they are "non-beings".
Which to me says they don't have an identity.

No, I'm just saying that it makes the most logical sense that the new enemies are light based. No-one has shown me evidence to believe otherwise yet.

And you don't have evidence saying they are.

I'm not saying that they are, or that they must be

You did up there^ (in your big letters post).

Only that it makes the Most Logical Sense.

That's debatable. Plus, since when does KH have to follow logic?
Logically, if you lost your heart, you would die; game over.

Xehanort uses his keyblade to release the hearts of people who have Not fallen to darkness, in order to use their light to create enemies called Unbirths. I believe he is able to do this because he can control light, and that the more light there is in a being, the stronger the Unbirth, which is why he seeks the BWHoPL, because they would be enormous sources of both Light and form monstrous Unbirths. (And that he plans to use their light to open the way to Kingdom Hearts ((Don't focus too much on this part please.)) )

See, and it's not a bad idea either.
The thing is that we have no evidence for it (or, as you pointed out, against it either--with the exception being the dark puff when the Unbirth are defeated).
So let's just treat it as it is for the time being - an idea.

 

[DMrayZ]

Since we are online and have no way of actually hearing you express yourself, your writing style and text formatting denote your attitude.

Well, I really didn't mean to express a 'tone', I just really like giant letters, and it was a great opportunity to use them.

Or, then you could go onto exceptions of the exceptions like Roxas: Sora had a strong heart, but he remembers nothing. Or Namine, if she really is a Nobody at all.

But I didn't, you did.

In your example, it's split about half and half between M/F. Not the case with Nobodies, where most become Dusks, etc.
And they seek to become whole. And it's said they are "non-beings".
Which to me says they don't have an identity.

That's True, However, its Also part of their nature that a more powerful person retains their form. Even if it is a Much smaller percentage than that of dusks.

And you don't have evidence saying they are.

And I don't have any evidence they aren't. But, really, now we're just going back and forth. There's no evidence either way.

You did up there^ (in your big letters post).

Actually, that was just me responding to him asking me to show him where it said that.

That's debatable. Plus, since when does KH have to follow logic?
Logically, if you lost your heart, you would die; game over.

Fact is, it follows a logical pattern. Darkness/Twilight/Light. Heartless/Nobodies/Unbirths. To me, that is logic. And you mean 'Realistically', not logically.

See, and it's not a bad idea either.
The thing is that we have no evidence for it (or, as you pointed out, against it either--with the exception being the dark puff when the Unbirth are defeated).
So let's just treat it as it is for the time being - an idea.

I've said that it is just an Idea already, however, I suppose I should have been more specific in my title. I Still hold that the color is more blue than dark, which makes sense when you consider the color of Unbirths.

 

[Insomniac]

Mostly, I doubt it's likely either, That's why I made sure to include the word "Stupid" in it's title. However it sums up as...

Xehanort uses his keyblade to release the hearts of people who have Not fallen to darkness, in order to use their light to create enemies called Unbirths. I believe he is able to do this because he can control light, and that the more light there is in a being, the stronger the Unbirth, which is why he seeks the BWHoPL, because they would be enormous sources of both Light and form monstrous Unbirths. (And that he plans to use their light to open the way to Kingdom Hearts ((Don't focus too much on this part please.)) )

Thanks.
It's not stupid but, unlikely at the moment. The releasing of a heart the has not been consumed by a darkness and then becomes a heartless is sent into a state of suspension as stated by Nomura.Master Xehanort cannot control Light from what we have seen so far. As you asked I will ignore the last part. so that's what I can prove right now from what you've just summerized.

 

[DMrayZ]

Actually, that's not necessarily proof. Because there hasn't been a case of a Keyblade being used to 'kill' someone who had a greater amount of light inside than evil. Except in the case of Sora, with the Heart Unlocker, However, that Keyblade was artificial, so I think it's pointless to mention it. Also, MX might be able to control light. What about the beam he fires up out of his hand to make KH appear? It doesn't look like it's necessarily darkness.

 

[Insomniac]

Actually, that's not necessarily proof.

Then what is it?

Because there hasn't been a case of a Keyblade being used to 'kill' someone who had a greater amount of light inside than evil.

Exactly, kill someone. If you kill someone they're dead. So far there has only been on form of killing someone. I don't think they're going to make another one. Also you did it again. You associated darkness and evil. They are not the same. Please try to understand that.

Except in the case of Sora, with the Heart Unlocker, However, that Keyblade was artificial, so I think it's pointless to mention it.

Why wouldn't that be included? The heart Unlocker was an artificial keyblade but, it's still a keyblade. We don't know if the keyblades that the weilders from Birth by Sleep weild are artificial. I think that though it was artificial it shouldstill be included as a keyblade.

Also, MX might be able to control light. What about the beam he fires up out of his hand to make KH appear? It doesn't look like it's necessarily darkness.

That was not a beam of Light. It was an orb that was colored purple, blue, pink, with darkness in the center. To me that sounds like darkness. Though it seems like they have made it obvious that Master Xehanort uses darkness. It is possible for him to use Light. Though I think it's unlikely.

This is irrelevant but, when master Xehanort obtained that orb it came from Ven's direction. Then it went towards the sky and, what seems to be Kingdom Hearts appears. This sounds like a possible example that Ven is a Being with a Heart of Pure Light. That's just my thought though.

 

[DMrayZ]

Exactly, kill someone. If you kill someone they're dead. So far there has only been on form of killing someone. I don't think they're going to make another one. Also you did it again. You associated darkness and evil. They are not the same. Please try to understand that.

Well, you and I differ there, I think they will make a new form of killing someone. Keyblades are very mysterious subjects, so it's hard to say. And sorry, I meant darkness, not evil, It's a typo, I Do realize the difference.

Why wouldn't that be included? The heart Unlocker was an artificial keyblade but, it's still a keyblade. We don't know if the keyblades that the weilders from Birth by Sleep weild are artificial. I think that though it was artificial it shouldstill be included as a keyblade.

Honestly, I don't want to count it in this, as it's artificial, and lacks a Keychain, while MX and DS's keyblades both have Keychains. It seems to make it irrelevant in my theory. So I don't like to count it. And the Is some debate about whether or not it really counts as a Keyblade, mostly because there's not enough known about it.

That was not a beam of Light. It was an orb that was colored purple, blue, pink, with darkness in the center. To me that sounds like darkness. Though it seems like they have made it obvious that Master Xehanort uses darkness. It is possible for him to use Light. Though I think it's unlikely.

This is irrelevant but, when master Xehanort obtained that orb it came from Ven's direction. Then it went towards the sky and, what seems to be Kingdom Hearts appears. This sounds like a possible example that Ven is a Being with a Heart of Pure Light. That's just my thought though.

Once again, You are associating Darkness with a color, and that color, is blue. Search around this site a bit, there's an image of the event, in Hi-res screen captures, you can see it much better there. And in that second part, it seems like your kind of agreeing with me on the part of my summary, where I asked you to ignore it? Is that right, or am I misunderstanding?

 

[Insomniac]

Well, you and I differ there, I think they will make a new form of killing someone. Keyblades are very mysterious subjects, so it's hard to say. And sorry, I meant darkness, not evil, It's a typo, I Do realize the difference.

Okay, you are entitled to your own opinion on the future description of death in the Kingdom Hearts games. Oh, it's okay if you made a typo sorry.

Honestly, I don't want to count it in this, as it's artificial, and lacks a Keychain, while MX and DS's keyblades both have Keychains. It seems to make it irrelevant in my theory. So I don't like to count it. And the Is some debate about whether or not it really counts as a Keyblade, mostly because there's not enough known about it.

Terra, Aqua, and Ven's Keyblades don't have keychains though. They're keyblades have parts on their keyblades were a keychain can be attached. I don't think that the Heart Unlocker should be excluded.

Once again, You are associating Darkness with a color, and that color, is blue. Search around this site a bit, there's an image of the event, in Hi-res screen captures, you can see it much better there. And in that second part, it seems like your kind of agreeing with me on the part of my summary, where I asked you to ignore it? Is that right, or am I misunderstanding?

I would assciate that specific color scheme with darkness. That may just be me though. I was agreeing with you. No your not misunderstanding.

 

[DMrayZ]

Okay, you are entitled to your own opinion on the future description of death in the Kingdom Hearts games. Oh, it's okay if you made a typo sorry.



Terra, Aqua, and Ven's Keyblades don't have keychains though. They're keyblades have parts on their keyblades were a keychain can be attached. I don't think that the Heart Unlocker should be excluded.



I would assciate that specific color scheme with darkness. That may just be me though. I was agreeing with you. No your not misunderstanding.

VAT are Also apprentices, I think they're Keyblades are not true Keyblades. Also, we know that Xehanort created the Heart Unlocker himself. Given that we don't know how Keyblades are created, it makes me hesitant to count the HU as a true Keyblade. However, if you believe they Can be created like that, then are opinions on this Are going to differ.