Yen Sid's "proper way". (Fun discussion)

[vaderskywalker]

I just want to make something clear so there is no confusion, this is not the same thing as my "About Sora's level" thread, this is about why Yen Sid felt it was "necessary" for Sora and Riku to start from scratch, they were already pretty strong, he basically made them weak on purpose so they could get strong again a different way, what was wrong with the way they got strong before? they got stronger through hard work and determination, in the field no less, Yen Sid apparently decided that wasn't good enough, what was his logic for that? that's like King Kai or Kami deciding that the way Goku got stronger wasn't good enough for them, and we all know that's not what happened, so, what are your thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 246005]

I just want to make something clear so there is no confusion, this is not the same thing as my "About Sora's level" thread, this is about why Yen Sid felt it was "necessary" for Sora and Riku to start from scratch, they were already pretty strong, he basically made them weak on purpose so they could get strong again a different way, what was wrong with the way they got strong before? they got stronger through hard work and determination, in the field no less, Yen Sid apparently decided that wasn't good enough, what was his logic for that? that's like King Kai or Kami deciding that the way Goku got stronger wasn't good enough for them, and we all know that's not what happened, so, what are your thoughts?

I thought Nomura wanted to justify Sora loosing his powers and wanted a callback to Ven, Terra and Aqua's beginning.

 

[vaderskywalker]

I thought Nomura wanted to justify Sora loosing his powers and wanted a callback to Ven, Terra and Aqua's beginning.

He did, and yeah, he definitely wanted a callback, but Yen Sid's reasoning doesn't really make sense when you really think about it.

 

[Deleted member 246005]

He did, and yeah, he definitely wanted a callback, but Yen Sid's reasoning doesn't really make sense when you really think about it.

I know. It would've made more sense as a moral test- he wanted to make sure Sora and Riku didn't become another Xehanort so he tests their principles rather than they're ability to fight.

It might've been better to do it like Harry potter Book 6, have Yen Sid go along with Sora and Riku and test them on the worlds itself while he investigates something.

 

[vaderskywalker]

I know. It would've made more sense as a moral test- he wanted to make sure Sora and Riku didn't become another Xehanort so he tests their principles rather than they're ability to fight.

It might've been better to do it like Harry potter Book 6, have Yen Sid go along with Sora and Riku and test them on the worlds itself while he investigates something.

Agreed.

 

[Launchpad]

Yen Sid trains jobbers (Kairi, Axel), and we have seen time and time again that the most important lessons in this series are learned on the STREETS (of Walt Disney Animated worlds). Sora and Riku are able to take Ansem on in 1 and CoM respectively, and this is a much more impressive feat on its own than most of the 'properly trained' wielders can boast. Now, I don't think this is an in-universe phenomenon, I think it's poor writing. We're told time and again that certain characters need 'more training', but this training never manifests in a quantifiable improvement in these characters or the way that they fight.

 

[Chie]

Yen Sid is not a good mentor or, indeed, a good person.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Yen Sid is not a good mentor or, indeed, a good person.

Agreed, if he was, he would have warned Sora and Riku (because he also has it) about the misuse of the Power of Waking, in fact despite his faults, I think Eraqus is a much better mentor, and that's saying something when Eraqus is a better mentor then the guy who trained Mickey Mouse.

 

[Deleted member 246005]

Agreed.

Training isn't a bad idea, it's just not fleshed out really well.

Having Yen Sid train them in more specific ways suited for their own struggles would've worked better.

In hindsight the first game would've been the best place for Yen Sid. Sora is a kid with no real life expierence outside of his peaceful island. So Donald and Goofy taking him to Yen Sid for guidance would've made more sense to me.

 

[Chie]

Except the whole point of Sora in KH1 is that he doesn't care about laws or rules, represented by him doing all that stuff with the Keyblade specifically without any real mentor or experience.

Training mattering at all is a bad idea because it's counter to the themes of the whole series.

 

[DolanGood]

The thing is, they probably didn't even need to lose their powers. The story could've been written in a way where maybe the sleeping worlds relies on some inherent dream logic and operates on their own system, and therefore their current powers at that point wouldn't be effective or reliable, hence the introduction to flowmotion, and that would have been fine.

 

[vaderskywalker]

The thing is, they probably didn't even need to lose their powers. The story could've been written in a way where maybe the sleeping worlds relies on some inherent dream logic and operates on their own system, and therefore their current powers at that point wouldn't be effective or reliable, hence the introduction to flowmotion, and that would have been fine.

That also sounds like a cool idea that they could have done, I agree.

 

[LastDemiDevil]

Maybe this doesn't fit the topic as well as I think, but even when Sora is considered to lost most of powers in KH3 his first big encounter in Olympus was to fight 3 Titans. Two of these Titans were optional tough fights in KH1 so in my mind even though Sora lost "most of his power" he's extremely strong right off the bat.

Yen Sid was most likely improving Sora and Riku through a more strenuous trial where he stripped them of most powers because it would lead to this outcome where even though Sora almost lost to the Real Organization, he was immensely powerful. You really can't argue with Sora's results. "Master" Riku is more debatable, because imo every scene early in KH3 he seems quite weak. Then again, its hard to tell how much of an amplifier the Heartless get while deep in the Realm of Darkness.

Overall, I think Yen Sid Definitely improved both of them by forcing them to work through the sleeping worlds in a weaker form. Riku's seeming inability to win at all was more of a "Nomura wants to focus on Sora's strength" than him actually being weak.

 

[vaderskywalker]

his first big encounter in Olympus was to fight 3 Titans

4, there was 4 of them.

 

[MATGSY]

Our choices for keyblade teachers was either Yen Sid or Merlin, a guy who's not a wielder himself & trains via flying furniture & getting your students sexually assaulted by squirrels.

Aqua can't start her teaching career soon enough I say.

 

[Soldier]

Our choices for keyblade teachers was either Yen Sid or Merlin, a guy who's not a wielder himself & trains via flying furniture & getting your students sexually assaulted by squirrels.

Aqua can't start her teaching career soon enough I say.

The thought of Merlin training Kairi and Lea similar to how he trained Arthur is both hilarious and horrifying to me. Like, in that time chamber are there any other forms of life? At what point will being sexually assaulted by forest animals be useful when it comes to mastering a keyblade?

 

[LastDemiDevil]

4, there was 4 of them.

ah, rock and lava titan melted together in my mind

 

[Soldier]

ah, rock and lava titan melted together in my mind

Badum tish!

 

[MATGSY]

ah, rock and lava titan melted together in my mind

I thought it was Ice Titan that melted :/

 

[Launchpad]

Overall I think the addition of Yen Sid is by far the biggest disaster in KH history. At the outset of KH2, he tells Sora who his enemies are, and from there, Sora hates Org XIII without any personal cause (until Saix taunts him). DDD is a wild goose chase only necessitated by Yen Sid's opinion that the two guys who saved the universe twice need training. In KH3, Sora is literally kept from doing what he is motivated to do multiple times by Yen Sid.

This fucking wizard leaves no room for personal motivation, he's printed out Sora's mission objective for three fucking games straight. People dog on ReMind for rehashing tons of fights (fair) but it's also the only KH content since CoM where Sora was operating on his own whims and feelings. Sora is at his best when he wants to save or reunite with a friend, not being trained to take down some big bad that he has no history with.

I hope that wizard gets thrown in a home