Xemnas's Plan



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Veritas7340

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All right, in DDD, it's revealed that the true purpose of Organization XIII was to find 13 vessels who could be filled with shards of Xehanort's heart.

However, from the moment that the first person in Castle Oblivion dies, this plan is destroyed. Even before that, the plan was already ruined because Marluxia and Larxene were traitors who could not be proper vessels.

Therefore, even though it is said that this was Xemnas's original plan, this couldn't be his plan during KHII. Half of his organization is eliminated.

What was his new plan during KHII? Was it to claim a heart for himself? Why doesn't he seem frustrated that the original plan couldn't work anymore? Xemnas gives the impression that everything is still going according to plan.

What do you think?
 

Hobbe

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I feel like Xemnas wanted the second false Kingdom Hearts for himself. Hooking up vessels to form Organization XIII was part of the Grand DDD Scheme, but you are right that he doesn't seem bothered by his cohorts being offed. Perhaps his use of the organization was as we thought it was originally - simply a group of fools who can stir up unrest in the worlds to create strong Heartless for Roxas or Xion or Sora or whoever to send back into the false Kingdom Hearts.

It seems odd that his entire true purpose was to create a Kingdom Hearts just for the sake of creating Xehanort vessels. Part of me is holding out for a twist that adds something to the importance of Ansem and Xemnas.
 

Veritas7340

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It would be awesome if Ansem SoD and Xemnas revealed in KHIII that they still have ulterior motives all along. However, with the whole 7 lights vs. 13 darknesses premise, I don't think they will do this plot twist unfortunately.

Regardless, I think they could've had ulterior motives during their time in KHI and KHII. As we both said, it seems weird that Xemnas's plan is to secure vessels for Xehanort. Furthermore, it's even stranger that Xemnas acted like everything was still according to plan.

Another important point: When Saix is dying, he says "Where is my heart?" Being one of the trusted inner circle, shouldn't he have known the original plan? Perhaps Xemnas changed the plan.
 

Hakan Xatos

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What I want to know is if Xemnas could make a Kingdom Hearts gathered from slain heartless it would seem that Xehanort would be interested in this since he wants Kingdom Hearts. Why don't MX and YX and other incarnations of Xehanort that can wield a keyblade just kill more Heartless and make another Kingdom Hearts? Also if the x-blade is the only thing that can unlock the power of Kingdom Hearts what could have Xemnas done if his plan did succeed? He didn't have a x-blade.
 

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What I want to know is if Xemnas could make a Kingdom Hearts gathered from slain heartless it would seem that Xehanort would be interested in this since he wants Kingdom Hearts. Why don't MX and YX and other incarnations of Xehanort that can wield a keyblade just kill more Heartless and make another Kingdom Hearts? Also if the x-blade is the only thing that can unlock the power of Kingdom Hearts what could have Xemnas done if his plan did succeed? He didn't have a x-blade.
Because those Kingdom Hearts aren't real. The Kingdom Hearts of worlds, and the Kingdom Hearts of men were forced amalgamations under the control of Xehanort. The true Kingdom Hearts, the source of light and all hearts, is inaccessible without the X-Blade.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Because those Kingdom Hearts aren't real. The Kingdom Hearts of worlds, and the Kingdom Hearts of men were forced amalgamations under the control of Xehanort. The true Kingdom Hearts, the source of light and all hearts, is inaccessible without the X-Blade.
Exactly, and that one, the true KH is apparently still several magnitudes more powerful than any of the facsimiles Ansem and Xemnas built with their own plans.

Xehanort even describes it in his reports in BBS:
Xehanort Report VII said:

It must be noted, though, that this Kingdom Hearts is special. Unlike the Kingdoms brought about forcibly and artificially through the collection of hearts, THIS Kingdom Hearts is a perfect and complete union of ALL the worlds' hearts.
He states explicitly that a KH brought forth by the forced collection of hearts may never reach the power of the actual true KH, which is implied to be the complete union of ALL hearts; worlds, men, animals, plants etc. combined.
Ansem SoD used in his KH "only" the hearts of individual worlds while Xemnas' KH used the hearts of millions of humans (or human-like beings).
The actual true KH would be the power of those two "false" KHs combined and even more so it seems.
 

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It would be awesome if Ansem SoD and Xemnas revealed in KHIII that they still have ulterior motives all along.
I now see a situation were Ansem and Xemnas are revealed to be just as much Terra influenced as Xehanort and were working ulterior schemes to his own. Finally coming under Terras control in KH3 because Xehanort has spread himself to thin with 13 bodies.
 

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as teased in II FM, terra's heart is inside xemnas (hence CO = looking for ven, talking to aqua's armor) so i'm hoping he'll have his own ulterior motives. maybe even a reunion with lingering will during the final showdown in the KG would throw a wrench in xehanort's plans but i doubt it because it would only smell xehanort and try to destroy him.
 

kuraudoVII

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It would be awesome if Ansem SoD and Xemnas revealed in KHIII that they still have ulterior motives all along. However, with the whole 7 lights vs. 13 darknesses premise, I don't think they will do this plot twist unfortunately.

Regardless, I think they could've had ulterior motives during their time in KHI and KHII. As we both said, it seems weird that Xemnas's plan is to secure vessels for Xehanort. Furthermore, it's even stranger that Xemnas acted like everything was still according to plan.

Another important point: When Saix is dying, he says "Where is my heart?" Being one of the trusted inner circle, shouldn't he have known the original plan? Perhaps Xemnas changed the plan.
That's been bugging me for a little while now, too. Perhaps it's possible that Xehanort twisted his mind so much that he didn't entirely know what was going on around him anymore? Iunno.

Actually, now that you brought up Saix, I am now having a hard time seeing this particular conversation the same way ever again:

Kingdom Hearts II said:
Saix: Xemnas, is Kingdom Hearts ready?

Xemnas: Very soon.

Saix: Then I can end this charade?

Mansex: Indeed.

Saix: How I've waited to hear that.
 

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That's been bugging me for a little while now, too. Perhaps it's possible that Xehanort twisted his mind so much that he didn't entirely know what was going on around him anymore? Iunno.

Actually, now that you brought up Saix, I am now having a hard time seeing this particular conversation the same way ever again:
Sooo possible Siax being in on it all along?
 

Sephiroth0812

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Sooo possible Siax being in on it all along?
Saix definitely knows more than the average members, so much is a given.
I doubt however that he was into the whole "norting"-scheme and Xemnas' actual true master plan from the get go.

Days elaborates more on that actually, especially since in one scene Xigbar actually mocks Saix for his shortsightedness and lack of understanding.

Days said:
Saïx: Hmph.

Axel: Let me guess... That chamber will tell you everything you don't know about Xemnas's true agenda. Is that the idea?

Saïx: The Chamber of Repose, and it's antipode, the Chamber of Waking... Xemnas isn't telling us something. And the missing chamber, the Chamber of Waking--it holds all the answers. We need those answers to gain the upper hand--for our own reasons.

Axel: Hmm... Look, I knew Vexen and Zexion would be obstacles. That's why they're not here anymore. When have I ever complained about the dirty work?

---

Saïx: Somebody accessed our main computer without authorization.

Xigbar: "Somebody"? Are we all gonna pretend we don't know who? Little Poppet is turning into a problem--and I think you catch my meaning.

Saïx: Nonsense. I see no problem whatsoever.

Xigbar: Ha ha! Well no, apparently you don't!

Saïx: Something you find amusing?

Xigbar: If people see with their hearts, Saïx, then you're even blinder than the rest of us.
The interesting issue comes around during KH 2 though as while during Days Saix was obviously not into all the inner workings of Xemnas' and Xigbar's hidden agenda, at the end of Days his "falling out" with Axel takes place and as a successful vessel we can assume that over time Saix became more and more "Xehanort".
So by the time that conversation with Xemnas happens in KH 2 (remember that it takes place after Xigbar is already defeated) I would guess that Saix is also already "half Xehanort" if not even more than that. Thus him talking with Xemnas like this only shows his progress as a vessel and that he's now in line with Xemnas' and Xehanort's overall goals despite not fully knowing them.

In the new Re. Coded secret ending, both Braig and even Young Xehanort admit that they do not know all the details and actual goals of Xehanort's master plan.
Heck, I'd even go so far to say that except Master Xehanort himself and possibly Ansem SoD, none of the vessels/incarnations, not even Xemnas, knows all about it.
 

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^ Maybe what we saw in Days was what was left of "Isa" in BBS. With Axels abandonment he looses whatever kept a semblance of his former self in check and he goes full Xehanort?
If even Braig doesn't know then I'm not sure Ansem would either. Wasn't unknown parts divided between Ansem and Xemnas? I'd say that leaves holes in their knowledge of the grand scheme as well.
 

Veritas7340

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It seems like the plan was subconsciously divided between Ansem SoD and Xemnas.

Ansem SoD: retrieved the 7 pieces of light [Princesses of Heart]

Xemnas: retrieved the 13 pieces of darkness [Organization XIII

Each of them thought that part alone was sufficient to attain Kingdom Hearts instead of the replica they create.
 
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