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Xemnas: Keyblade impaired?



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Relix

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Seeing how people are posting Theories about No Heart now, I'm going to pick at something that has to deal loosely on it that I thought should be addressed. And thats Xemnas's legitimacy as a keyblade wielder.

I doubt Xemnas stopped because of "morals" because he has no emotions to back these morals up. And I also doubt Xemnas was lazy because he had an agenda. There are two conclusions that I came up with. The first being the one I believe and the second that literally sprang in my head as I typed this out.

First Explanation: Riku.

Riku dual wielded in TWTNW. Who's keyblade was the second's? Wasn't Eraqus (with Aqua). Wasn't Terra (With LS). Where would that other keyblade come from? I think Riku took Xemnas' only legitimate keyblade (MX's). But because of his memories it became that floral Destiny's Place or whatever. Unless you believe that one can duplicate the same keyblade. I mean look at it this way, did all those hearts really come from Sora, Roxas, and Xion alone? What about before then? What if Xemnas was harvesting on the side, Ansem SoD f*cks up by having Riku harbor him, and then *poof* Riku has access to said keyblade.

Second Explanation: According to Plan (Suicide?)

Xemnas wanted to be defeated by Riku and Sora. What if he somehow knew that if he was to be defeated he'd reform and become complete? I don't know.

Discuss.
 

chasespicer056

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Seeing how people are posting Theories about No Heart now, I'm going to pick at something that has to deal loosely on it that I thought should be addressed. And thats Xemnas's legitimacy as a keyblade wielder.

I doubt Xemnas stopped because of "morals" because he has no emotions to back these morals up. And I also doubt Xemnas was lazy because he had an agenda. There are two conclusions that I came up with. The first being the one I believe and the second that literally sprang in my head as I typed this out.

First Explanation: Riku.

Riku dual wielded in TWTNW. Who's keyblade was the second's? Wasn't Eraqus (with Aqua). Wasn't Terra (With LS). Where would that other keyblade come from? I think Riku took Xemnas' only legitimate keyblade (MX's). But because of his memories it became that floral Destiny's Place or whatever. Unless you believe that one can duplicate the same keyblade. I mean look at it this way, did all those hearts really come from Sora, Roxas, and Xion alone? What about before then? What if Xemnas was harvesting on the side, Ansem SoD f*cks up by having Riku harbor him, and then *poof* Riku has access to said keyblade.

Second Explanation: According to Plan (Suicide?)

Xemnas wanted to be defeated by Riku and Sora. What if he somehow knew that if he was to be defeated he'd reform and become complete? I don't know.

Discuss.

I think you should read this theory I made: http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom...uding-why-he-didnt-use-keyblade-spoilers.html

This is what I was trying to say back on the other thread. And you might get something out of it.

Now, on to your theory.

Okay, I find the first one interesting. But why would Xemnas want Riku to succeed? If he had Terra's mind like my theory said, I could undrstand that.

And Riku wouldn't be using Xehanort's Keyblade ALL his life. Why didn't Xemnas use it before?

And the suicide idea is interesting, but if that were the case, he would have not even bothered to join with Kingdom Hearts. He wouldn't even have put up a fight.
 

Revolution

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I like the second theory, but my only problem with it is why did Xemnas try so hard if he just wanted to be defeated? It's like he never knew what would happen, so he tried to win.

And if that is so, then there's most likely another reason he didn't wield.

My guess is simply memory issues.
 

Relix

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I think you should read this theory I made: http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom...uding-why-he-didnt-use-keyblade-spoilers.html

This is what I was trying to say back on the other thread. And you might get something out of it.

I'll give it a look see.

Okay, I find the first one interesting. But why would Xemnas want Riku to succeed? If he had Terra's mind like my theory said, I could undrstand that.

Perhaps the two explanations go hand in hand. Riku took the keyblade away from him but instead of taking it back Xemnas let Riku and Sora do him in.

And Riku wouldn't be using Xehanort's Keyblade ALL his life. Why didn't Xemnas use it before?

I think Xemnas was using it secretly before Riku discovered how to access the second keyblade in him. He may not have been using it but knew he could. He but before the time came that he would want to use it Riku nabbed it already.

And the suicide idea is interesting, but if that were the case, he would have not even bothered to join with Kingdom Hearts. He wouldn't even have put up a fight.

I think joining up with KH was the initial idea but once he saw that his KH was messed up, he decided to he'd rejoin and become whole again and start from scratch. Assuming he knew that would be the outcome.
 
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First Explanation: Riku.

Riku dual wielded in TWTNW. Who's keyblade was the second's? Wasn't Eraqus (with Aqua). Wasn't Terra (With LS). Where would that other keyblade come from? I think Riku took Xemnas' only legitimate keyblade (MX's). But because of his memories it became that floral Destiny's Place or whatever. Unless you believe that one can duplicate the same keyblade. I mean look at it this way, did all those hearts really come from Sora, Roxas, and Xion alone? What about before then? What if Xemnas was harvesting on the side, Ansem SoD f*cks up by having Riku harbor him, and then *poof* Riku has access to said keyblade.

Terra's keyblade wasn't with LS.
We see it whizzing around the Dark Realm in the Last Episode's ending.

And this would be a theory for why Xemnas can't wield a keyblade (because Riku is using it, or whatever). The implication is that he can, but chooses not to.


Second Explanation: According to Plan (Suicide?)

Xemnas wanted to be defeated by Riku and Sora. What if he somehow knew that if he was to be defeated he'd reform and become complete? I don't know.

Discuss.

There's some legitimacy to this idea, but at the same time, why would that stop him from using his keyblade? He could still use it, just not to the point of being lethal. More importantly, though, why wouldn't he just kill himself if that were the case?
 

Marx15

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Your suicide theory, is more so a backup plan than what he really wanted.
Xemnas' goals were what was shown in KH2. Failure would just be nuisance to him, but with that in mind he would have a backup plan.

Basically all forms of Xehanort has some kind of backup plan.

MX had Braig to help him after he got control of Terra if something went wrong.

Ansem SoD had Riku, as seen in CoM.

And then with what you're assuming with Xemnas, than that would be his backup plan.

All in all, it wasn't Xemnas' plan to die at the hands of Sora and Riku, or anyone for that matter. But if he did die, then he probably had an idea of what would become of him.

And as for your first theory, I don't quite think so...but it was odd that Riku gave Kairi and then had his own to fight with. That....I just don't know about it being "Xehanort's Keyblade".
 

Relix

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Terra's keyblade wasn't with LS.
We see it whizzing around the Dark Realm in the Last Episode's ending.

Wasn't that more so symbolism? Something to make Aqua keep on going? There is less sense to Ven and Terra's keyblade just randomly flying through the realm of darkness than to seeing Terranort actually drop the keyblade Terra was using only to find his armor pick it up. It makes more sense for Terra's keyblade to actually be there with LS than have it disappear from LS, turn into Earthshaker, somehow be in the Realm of Darkness (along with Ven's keyblade, which Ven used in the Last Episode too), and magically save Aqua from the dark beings she was willing to be killed by. It just screams symbolism. "Keep on fighting". Just like how Terra wasn't actually seeing the future when he looked at Riku but in game he looks like he is snapping out of a trance. It wasn't something to be taken as literal.

And this would be a theory for why Xemnas can't wield a keyblade (because Riku is using it, or whatever). The implication is that he can, but chooses not to.

I see more like, he could freely before, Riku took it, he chooses not to take it back.

There's some legitimacy to this idea, but at the same time, why would that stop him from using his keyblade? He could still use it, just not to the point of being lethal. More importantly, though, why wouldn't he just kill himself if that were the case?

Personally I think it just all came down to preference. Instead of randomly killing himself he may have decided to let them think that they did him in, only o find that he'll return despite their efforts. Like I said, he may not have wanted to die up until the end. He wanted KH, they messed it up, he decides to go with an alternative.
 

Vani

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I actually like your second theory.
The only problem is, Xemnas is basically Terra (his body and soul). He was looking for Ven so maybe he was looking for Aqua too. So, if that was Xemnas's goal, he couldnt just go back to being complete because then that would put him back as Xehanort and doing MXs bidding again.
 

LadyScythe

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Personally I like both theories but i'm leaning towards the seconed.

and this was a conversation, i've had more then once. Xemnas's plans having been falling part since Chain of Memories, and he hasnt exacilty done anything to make it work. He has an organization of traitors with only 3-4 loyal to him and three of them were Pre-Teen/Teen. any way, He really didnt do anything to make sure they worked out. I mean, it's like he went 'okay' and excepted everything to pan out to his will. which it didnt in the end.
 
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Wasn't that more so symbolism? Something to make Aqua keep on going? There is less sense to Ven and Terra's keyblade just randomly flying through the realm of darkness than to seeing Terranort actually drop the keyblade Terra was using only to find his armor pick it up. It makes more sense for Terra's keyblade to actually be there with LS than have it disappear from LS, turn into Earthshaker, somehow be in the Realm of Darkness (along with Ven's keyblade, which Ven used in the Last Episode too), and magically save Aqua from the dark beings she was willing to be killed by. It just screams symbolism. "Keep on fighting". Just like how Terra wasn't actually seeing the future when he looked at Riku but in game he looks like he is snapping out of a trance. It wasn't something to be taken as literal.

I'm sorry, but how the hell can you take that as "symbolism"?
Symbolism doesn't destroy Darkside Heartless.

What you saw there... is what you saw. Terra's Keyblade.
That was very much meant to be taken literally, and it frankly scares me when people don't know the difference.

I'm not saying that what LS was holding wasn't Terra's Keyblade. It was. But, obviously, Terra's lingering spirit didn't linger for very long, because we see the keyblade in the dark realm later on. People just assumed that, simply because Sora had a boss fight with the LS, he must have been sitting there for over a decade.


I see more like, he could freely before, Riku took it, he chooses not to take it back.

So he just lets Riku take his keyblade? Why?
Also, where was MX's keyblade the entire time prior to Riku using Destiny's Embrace? Because if you have a separate reason for why Xemnas chose not to use it before then, the Riku explanation becomes pretty redundant.

Personally I think it just all came down to preference. Instead of randomly killing himself he may have decided to let them think that they did him in, only o find that he'll return despite their efforts. Like I said, he may not have wanted to die up until the end. He wanted KH, they messed it up, he decides to go with an alternative.

Well if he wanted them to kill him, he certainly didn't make it any easier, what with merging with Kingdom Hearts.
 

Relix

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I'm sorry, but how the hell can you take that as "symbolism"?
Symbolism doesn't destroy Darkside Heartless.

What you saw there... is what you saw. Terra's Keyblade.
That was very much meant to be taken literally, and it frankly scares me when people don't know the difference.

Sorry to scare you. and to answer: Simply because I don't get how both Ven and Terra's keyblades just magically appeared in the nick of time to save Aqua when she had given up hope and blissfully go on their merry way to heaven knows where on their own. I mean, if there's an obvious answer that i missed please inform me. I mean it seemed a bit much and miraculous for Ven to summon his keyblade with Aqua (and MX in the beginning on DI) to open the pathway to LoD in that state, and I thought it was going a stretch to assume that he had reached out into the realm of darkness. i guess keyblades can have a mind of their own. I'm not screaming "fact" or anything, i'm just saying what i thought. nice professionalism btw.

I'm not saying that what LS was holding wasn't Terra's Keyblade. It was. But, obviously, Terra's lingering spirit didn't linger for very long, because we see the keyblade in the dark realm later on. People just assumed that, simply because Sora had a boss fight with the LS, he must have been sitting there for over a decade.

I dunno. I just thought inanimate suit of armor sitting there where KH was and probably sticking around incase MX cam e back idk, would be just about as possible as Terra and Ven's keyblades flying in like Batman and Robin to save the day with their wielders out of commission let alone out of reach. I mean LS seemed ready to kick ass when Sora showed up mistaking him for Xehanort, maybe he could have been waiting there for Xehanort to show up. I dunno.


So he just lets Riku take his keyblade? Why?
Also, where was MX's keyblade the entire time prior to Riku using Destiny's Embrace? Because if you have a separate reason for why Xemnas chose not to use it before then, the Riku explanation becomes pretty redundant.

Xemnas letting Riku take the keyblade he was barely using, to me, doesn't seem like much of a loss to him if he wasn't using it before. People say he was just plain lazy. I offered an alternative in saying he knew it was there and that he can use it if needed, Riku takes and he just shrugs. I'm just giving the thing a place to go. I mean... he doesn't even bug out when his KH is all messed up. He doesn't seem like the kinda guy to panic and hasten is all



Well if he wanted them to kill him, he certainly didn't make it any easier, what with merging with Kingdom Hearts.

Maybe the more power he had as he died as a nobody would transfer to the power he'll have when he's complete. -shrugs-
 
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Roxas891011V

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Seeing how people are posting Theories about No Heart now, I'm going to pick at something that has to deal loosely on it that I thought should be addressed. And thats Xemnas's legitimacy as a keyblade wielder.

I doubt Xemnas stopped because of "morals" because he has no emotions to back these morals up. And I also doubt Xemnas was lazy because he had an agenda. There are two conclusions that I came up with. The first being the one I believe and the second that literally sprang in my head as I typed this out.

First Explanation: Riku.

Riku dual wielded in TWTNW. Who's keyblade was the second's? Wasn't Eraqus (with Aqua). Wasn't Terra (With LS). Where would that other keyblade come from? I think Riku took Xemnas' only legitimate keyblade (MX's). But because of his memories it became that floral Destiny's Place or whatever. Unless you believe that one can duplicate the same keyblade. I mean look at it this way, did all those hearts really come from Sora, Roxas, and Xion alone? What about before then? What if Xemnas was harvesting on the side, Ansem SoD f*cks up by having Riku harbor him, and then *poof* Riku has access to said keyblade.

Second Explanation: According to Plan (Suicide?)

Xemnas wanted to be defeated by Riku and Sora. What if he somehow knew that if he was to be defeated he'd reform and become complete? I don't know.

Discuss.



Well both theories sound good to me, especially the first one with Riku. Also if you include that Riku was picked by Terra and the theory that he might be related to Xehanort would make total sense that Riku could be able to steal Xemnas' Keyblade and use it for himself through that connection. I mean he was able to take Sora's so maybe Riku has the ability to steal Keyblades or something like that or just weird connections that give him the power.

The Suicide idea I like because Xemnas didn't want a heart he just wanted power so maybe by knowing he is more powerful with a heart and maybe he knew that if the heartless and nobody are destroyed then he'll be reborn. Though it does seem like quite a complicated plan to get himself killed. You know he could've just grabbed Kairi and stood in front of Sora to do that. You know not form the Organization and cause all the chaos he did unless he was bored and was just plotting till someone was actually powerful enough to stop him. Also well he could've just been plotting to make sure that there was someone strong enough to defeat him and that he would have someone to actually put up a challenge against him when he comes back.
 

gxyoumo14

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it could be a bit of both. for sure xemnas used a keyblade to at least start his kingdom hearts. it may also be that both riku and xemnas could use xehanorts keyblade. kinda like how roxas, xion and sora used it at the same time. and yes i am aware that vens heart could have been used as a catalyst for them

dont forget that xemnas was more terra but xehanort was still in there. xehanorts a crafty ol dude. xemnas could have just been plan C failing
 

XVBraxinXV

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I like the second theory too. Seeing as he was no match for the powers of Sora and Riku, he quickly thought of the plan to comeback as a whole. So he let himself be defeated and put up a front like he couldn't believe he was defeated to mislead Riku and Sora. This would tie in so good with the [***SPOILER*** secret ending to Re:Coded and the {***SPOILER***} secret ending Blank Points when Master Xehanort said he had many roads to take other than taking over Terra's body.
 

Pratiko

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There's more of a possibility of Riku using Ansem SoD's unused Keyblade than it being Xemnas' Keyblade, whereas Riku has Ansem SoD inside him, and no direct connection to Xemnas.

And the suicide idea is just lame.
 
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Sorry to scare you. and to answer: Simply because I don't get how both Ven and Terra's keyblades just magically appeared in the nick of time to save Aqua when she had given up hope and blissfully go on their merry way to heaven knows where on their own. I mean, if there's an obvious answer that i missed please inform me. I mean it seemed a bit much and miraculous for Ven to summon his keyblade with Aqua (and MX in the beginning on DI) to open the pathway to LoD in that state, and I thought it was going a stretch to assume that he had reached out into the realm of darkness. i guess keyblades can have a mind of their own. I'm not screaming "fact" or anything, i'm just saying what i thought. nice professionalism btw.

And you said it right there. It's showing how keyblades have a "mind" of their own.
As for the opportune timing, it's called Deus Ex Machina.

But just because you don't get how something happens doesn't mean you should chalk it up to "symbolism."
You can't "symbolically" save someone when they're in literal danger.

I dunno. I just thought inanimate suit of armor sitting there where KH was and probably sticking around incase MX cam e back idk, would be just about as possible as Terra and Ven's keyblades flying in like Batman and Robin to save the day with their wielders out of commission let alone out of reach. I mean LS seemed ready to kick ass when Sora showed up mistaking him for Xehanort, maybe he could have been waiting there for Xehanort to show up. I dunno.

Except we already saw "Terra and Ven's keyblades flying in like Batman and Robin to save the day." Both can't be true, so that by default eliminates the idea that the armor just sat there.

I mean, hell, even when Sora fights him (assuming it's canon), LS wasn't sitting there. They weren't in the same spot where he was originally kneeling, and the LS just sort of apparated in. It's not like he was kneeling there before Sora came.
And as I've pointed out in other topics, it wouldn't have made much sense if he just sat there for ten years. Don't you think someone like Yen Sid and Mickey would have checked there considering it was the last place Terra was seen? If they found animated armor there, I don't think they would have been like, "Oh, well he looks like he's deeply concentrating, we better not disturb him." But we see in the Re:coded ending that they have no idea where Terra is.


Xemnas letting Riku take the keyblade he was barely using, to me, doesn't seem like much of a loss to him if he wasn't using it before. People say he was just plain lazy. I offered an alternative in saying he knew it was there and that he can use it if needed, Riku takes and he just shrugs. I'm just giving the thing a place to go. I mean... he doesn't even bug out when his KH is all messed up. He doesn't seem like the kinda guy to panic and hasten is all

What I was saying was that you're offering two separate explanations for why he doesn't use the keyblade, so at least one of them is redundant.
He wasn't using the keyblade much in the first place, as you proposed, so saying that giving it to Riku doesn't really explain why he chose not to use it.
 
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