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Xemnas IS Terra?



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Genocide

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To gain a heart when severely lacking? That seems Terra like.
Especially in comparison to ASoD.
 

OathkeeperRoxas XIII

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I'd say give up explaining to Samhain, but he called me his bitch... and I'm not anyone's bitch.

On Topic: It's hard to say Xemnas is Terra without soundling like a Xehanort/Aquanort/Terqua fan, but if it's revealed, then okay.
 

Tails_Night

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I think that is a bit of a stretch, I think the motives to gather his "friends" would have come from the Terra part of him. I think the kingdom hearts desire was definitely a Xehanort motive, and not to mention the X being mixed into the anagram especially when you roll into play the X-blade and MX's obsession with that and the kingdom hearts, not to mention his method of using others to get what he wants was again, very MX-ish. The body might have succumbed, and the heart may have submitted, but the body was terra's to begin with so in a sense yes. But there's also not to mention his desire to gain great power form kingdom hearts, and as we all remember Terra's last existing wish was to gain more power to protect his friends.
 

chasespicer056

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Why should I drop an argument that is completely possible and valid just because you don't see it and are fixated to make Xemnas into a Terra wanna-be.
Xemnas has no concept of "friendship" and his actions scream Xehanort, he is certainly not Terra but a form of Xehanort that is slightly influenced by Terra's memories.

Because MX had no use for Aqua. He even ordered Vanitas to kill her at the final fight. So if Xemnas is mainly influenced by Xehanort, why does he hold on to Aqua's armor? Why does he hold on to the armor of one of Terra's friends?

The same armor whose owner helped ruined MX's plans by fighting off Terranort and allowing Terra to fight back a bit.

The same armor whose owner destroyed the X-Blade, the weapon which MX craved.

Clearly Terra is giving Xemnas more than just his memories.

You're right, we don't know how much influence Terra truly had. But 3D will heavily touch on that and start to show how Terra influenced Xemnas and/or Ansem SOD.

It's a link to his past which he somehow can use to regain memories of his past lives, so much we know. This reason alone is enough for Xemnas, who was obsessed with memories, to hold onto it.

Xemnas being "Terra" physically is a no-brainer since it's Terra's body and that he had some of Terra's memories is also proven. Yet all of his whole attitude and approach to things, the megalomanic goals of becoming a god-like being and create a new world, his utterly ruthless and uncaring treatment of foe and ally alike as well as all of his actions reflect more Xehanort than Terra, as these things are exactly how Xehanort acts and schemes most of the time.

The fact that of all things, Aqua's armor is a link to his past that he kept, says something about Terra's impact on Xemnas.

And why is it so hard to believe that, if Xemnas were under Terra's influence, he wouldn't be so ruthless? Nobodies have desires, obsessions even... but no remorse or guilt.

Terra VOWED at the end of Birth By Sleep that he was willing to pay any cost for his "cause". Considering how he repeats "Aqua... Ven..." throughout the game, one would assume he is referring to being with Aqua and Ven again.

Xemnas's knowledge of Kingdom Hearts and ability to scheme likely comes from MX. But his true goal, the mysterious purpose for how and why he wants to create a "brand new world" might stem from Terra.
 

Nayru's Love

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Because MX had no use for Aqua. He even ordered Vanitas to kill her at the final fight. So if Xemnas is mainly influenced by Xehanort, why does he hold on to Aqua's armor? Why does he hold on to the armor of one of Terra's friends?

We don't know what Xemnas can do with the armor, or the CoR. It may not be as simple as "he holds it as a memento."

Clearly Terra is giving Xemnas more than just his memories.
Even memories are questionable, honestly.

The fact that of all things, Aqua's armor is a link to his past that he kept, says something about Terra's impact on Xemnas.
Aqua's armor was the only link to Xehanort's past. Well, that and the name "Xehanort."

Terra VOWED at the end of Birth By Sleep that he was willing to pay any cost for his "cause". Considering how he repeats "Aqua... Ven..." throughout the game, one would assume he is referring to being with Aqua and Ven again.
For all we know, Terra might not have even done jack shit at this point. It's mostly speculation so far.

Xemnas's knowledge of Kingdom Hearts and ability to scheme likely comes from MX. But his true goal, the mysterious purpose for how and why he wants to create a "brand new world" might stem from Terra.
It's far more likely that goal came from MX, since he shared that goal as well.

Xemnas seems to also want to find Aqua and Ven.
Aqua, not so sure. As for Ven, there's other things could could interest him regarding, Ven (if he's even interested in Ven at all; for all we know, he could be interested in just the CoW).

And AX was already a complete being.
What I meant was that, since neither MX nor Terra ever exhibited a desire to be complete (for obvious reasons), that might have originated from AX himself.
 

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That desire to be complete was Xemnas' as AX intentionally cast off his shell, which became Xemnas.
 

Tails_Night

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You know the more this debate goes on the more anyone who's reading and thinking back should notice that Xemnas was more MX than anything.
 

Genocide

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In their own beings. MX's plan all along was to become younger, which he did.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Because MX had no use for Aqua. He even ordered Vanitas to kill her at the final fight. So if Xemnas is mainly influenced by Xehanort, why does he hold on to Aqua's armor? Why does he hold on to the armor of one of Terra's friends?

The same armor whose owner helped ruined MX's plans by fighting off Terranort and allowing Terra to fight back a bit.

The same armor whose owner destroyed the X-Blade, the weapon which MX craved.

Clearly Terra is giving Xemnas more than just his memories.

You're right, we don't know how much influence Terra truly had. But 3D will heavily touch on that and start to show how Terra influenced Xemnas and/or Ansem SOD.

He had a use for her as a backup-X-blade material, but that's not the point. It doesn't matter what Aqua's armor meant for MX, but for Apprentice Xehanort and Xemnas.
To them it was the only hint left to their former lives which is already explanation enough for them to keep it and try to use it for regaining more memories of former lives, which means both MX and Terra, not just Terra.

Xehanort ordering Vanitas to off Aqua was also mainly aimed to drive Terra further over the edge, just like when MX was actually gloating about how he shattered Ven's heart deliberately on purpose, and Terra fell for both attempts.

See, and that's where our opinions diverge, as Xemnas clearly having more of Terra than just memories isn't that clear after all.
Some memories are quite enough to explain some of Xemnas's behavior as he acted in some way upon the memories he received.

We only know that Xemnas was obsessed with finding the Chamber of Waking, but we neither know why that was nor how he even came to know that it exists (Only Aqua and Eraqus should know, so Xemnas having some of Eraqus's memories might explain that).
Just assuming Xemnas was searching for the chamber for benevolent reasons is dangerous as he was incapable of benevolence for all we know, he himself stated that he cannot comprehend sorrow and only "feels" hate and rage.
Someone who's only capable of hatred cannot comprehend friendship at all.

Indeed, in DDD we will get some light shed upon how the powers and memories of Xehanort/Terra/Eraqus were divided between Ansem SoD and Xemnas.
Yet also DDD already shows more "Xehanortness" in Xemnas as he psychologically torments and haunts Sora, just like the Mysterious Figure does, something Terra would never do since Sora is protecting Ventus, which his Lingering Sentiment realized after fighting him, and attacks Mickey, who's also a friend of Ven and Aqua.


The fact that of all things, Aqua's armor is a link to his past that he kept, says something about Terra's impact on Xemnas.

And why is it so hard to believe that, if Xemnas were under Terra's influence, he wouldn't be so ruthless? Nobodies have desires, obsessions even... but no remorse or guilt.

Terra VOWED at the end of Birth By Sleep that he was willing to pay any cost for his "cause". Considering how he repeats "Aqua... Ven..." throughout the game, one would assume he is referring to being with Aqua and Ven again.

Xemnas's knowledge of Kingdom Hearts and ability to scheme likely comes from MX. But his true goal, the mysterious purpose for how and why he wants to create a "brand new world" might stem from Terra.

Like I said above, the armor is Xemnas's only remaining link to his former lives so he would have kept it nonetheless, especially when he realized he could somehow use it to regain more memories of MX and Terra.

Because unlike Xehanort, Terra can differentiate between actions morally sound and not. When nobodies are influenced by someone other it also shows some of their traits, like seen with Demyx, who, despite being a nobody, wasn't always that hostile or Luxord.
Xemnas's actions on the other hand, I won't repeat all of his crimes again, clearly show the signature of Xehanort since in the end they weren't different from MX's and Ansem SoDs end goal at all, only slightly varied in detail.

Yeah, he vowed that HE would pay any cost, not that the universe would pay. Indeed, the cause that pushes him to fight on and what becomes is primary desire is to save Aqua and Ven, yet we should be led to believe he would become as worse as Xehanort to reach that goal?
In that case he deserves getting his ass kicked by Sora and Riku just like Xehanort does.

I don't see what is so "mysterious" about Xemnas's true goal, he basically spills it right out to Ansem the Wise and in his secret reports in Days. He doesn't want KH to get a heart or become whole but to use its power to destroy the universe and make himself the god of the new one, which is exactly what every incarnation of Xehanort wanted.
It all boils down to Xehanort wanting to get his hands on Kingdom Hearts.
Terra would gain nothing by creating a "new world" other than probably becoming the enemy of the whole universe because he messed it up.
 

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Xemnas has both memories the belong to MX and Terra.
His goals are Terra's.
His means of achieving those goals are MX's. (edit: Arguable, these are Terra's means too: "You'll never sway me from the one cause the pushes me to keep on fighting. Whatever the cost, I'm ready to pay it.")
Xemnas had no hope of finding Ventus when he's just a Nobody. Surely, as a higher being, with powers above any other, he could find him. Or find the means to.

XH also wanted to be complete, which he achieved when he took Riku, and his motives were to also reach KH. He would of became a higher being, and then just make everything turn back to Darkness. Or whatever other plans he had.
 

Pratiko

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Xemnas being Terra is very arguable.
For example, Xemnas himself states that he doesn't remember any other emotion that isn't "Dark", as in sorrow, anger, despair, or sadness. If he cannot remember any emotions of the Light, then either He only has Terra's darkness or doesn't have any part of Terra's Heart at all, or that part was sealed deep within with Terranort's selfstabbing.
Thus, having Terra's goals isn't necessarely true. He could have MX's motives, as in finding Ventus, who is hidden in Castle Oblivion and he somehow knows it (as stated in Days and KH2FM). Why find Ventus? For the X-blade, I'd think, it worked once already, right?

I'd say:
Xemnas = Terra's Darkness + MX's Heart + Terra's Body.
 

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Being a heartless, he also wanted to bathe the worlds in darkness as well.

Xemnas being Terra is very arguable

Xemnas the being is not literally Terra, the body itself, however, is.
 

Nayru's Love

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Xemnas has both memories the belong to MX and Terra.
He definitely has memories of either of them, but it's arguable as to whether or not he has both of theirs.

His goals are Terra's.
The only thing we know for sure is that he wanted to become a higher being and create a new world. That seems more like MX than Terra.

Xemnas had no hope of finding Ventus when he's just a Nobody. Surely, as a higher being, with powers above any other, he could find him. Or find the means to.
More or less speculative. We already have a reason as to why Xemnas wanted KH, why add another one? That, and we don't know why Xemnas was looking for Ven/the CoW.
 

Cosmic+Amarna

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I think that Xemnas simply had some, few influences of Terra, but we can all see that MX is and was the main influence.

"More or less speculative. We don't know why Xemnas was looking for Ven/the CoW."

exactly, we don't know what that niggee was up to, other than taking over the effin world.
 

Luap

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-- There was a new type of keyblade that appeared this time, changing the “key” in keyblade to “X” (The X of the Greek alphabet, pronounced “key”. It also has the meaning of “ultimate” or “death”.) It’s quite an excellent name.

Nomura: The name “X-Blade” was Watanabe (Daisuke), the scenario writer’s, idea. How the symbol X ‘crosses’ is symbolic of the crossing of dark and light. The members of Organization XIII get their names by adding an X to the name they had as humans comes from this. Also, the Nobody’s mark looks a lot like Eraqus’ symbol, but you can probably figure out that the reason this is has something to do with Xemnas.

Xemnas has memories from Terra and/or Eraqus. Otherwise, he wouldn't remember the mark.

-- So then, why is Xemnas of Organization XIII searching for Ven?

Nomura: Well, there's still some time between the ending of 'Birth by Sleep' and 'KHI', so...

There's more to be revealed about Xemnas during the 10 year gap.
 
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