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Xehanort's changed fate before



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Oracle Spockanort

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digimikej

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I'm so glad someone else came to the same conclusion. I don't know what else Terranort could mean by the "forbidden path" in the ReMind trailer. I'm interested to see how much of that they'll show/explain though.

The more we learn about about ReMind the more I want the Xehanort game we're never going to get!
 

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I'm so glad someone else came to the same conclusion. I don't know what else Terranort could mean by the "forbidden path" in the ReMind trailer. I'm interested to see how much of that they'll show/explain though.

The more we learn about about ReMind the more I want the Xehanort game we're never going to get!


What I mean is that Xehanort deserves a game ;A;
 

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I agree with this, because even in the base game, it's weird that Young Xehanort knew too much about what the Lich was and what the Power of Waking is. I mean, I suppose common sense would say diving deep into darkness = bad, but Young Xehanort knew that what Sora was doing came at a price, and the only way he would've known this is if he either did it himself or somebody told him. And since we see the Master of Masters talking to him, well... It absolutely makes sense that's where he would've learned everything from.

Also, like you mentioned... The fact that Terranort says "Seeing that you have also taken the forbidden path, you too must be ready to make the ultimate sacrifice.", that implies that he knows that someone else has done the exact same thing, either himself or somebody he knows. (This is under the assumption that he's addressing this to Sora, we don't know who for sure he's saying this to, and maybe for a good reason.)

A Xehanort game would've been an excellent method to touch on all of these questions, because what exactly does he know?
 

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I agree with this, because even in the base game, it's weird that Young Xehanort knew too much about what the Lich was and what the Power of Waking is. I mean, I suppose common sense would say diving deep into darkness = bad, but Young Xehanort knew that what Sora was doing came at a price, and the only way he would've known this is if he either did it himself or somebody told him. And since we see the Master of Masters talking to him, well... It absolutely makes sense that's where he would've learned everything from.

Also, like you mentioned... The fact that Terranort says "Seeing that you have also taken the forbidden path, you too must be ready to make the ultimate sacrifice.", that implies that he knows that someone else has done the exact same thing, either himself or somebody he knows. (This is under the assumption that he's addressing this to Sora, we don't know who for sure he's saying this to, and maybe for a good reason.)

A Xehanort game would've been an excellent method to touch on all of these questions, because what exactly does he know?
Yes, exactly. There were a lot of implications already with Xehanort just by those facts alone.

Nomura should really give into temptation and make a Xehanort game. I’ve seen more people lately wishing for one than when KH3 ended. And even if it is a Xehanort game, it doesn’t mean it has to be a part of his Saga. It can easily be a bridge game to further set up the upcoming saga.
 

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Not a theory, just an observation.
I was going to say 'good theory' after I read the whole thing, then I returned to the top. I'll say good observation instead, haha.

I agree with the comments that said that now we need a game about Xehanort's backstory. It's clear there is more about him than just the typical, rather powerful and easily influenced teenager with twisted morals that thinks his vision of the world should be the law and the key to the ideal future. Although he is that kind of guy, but if he lost someone or something and passed through the put-too-much-heart-and-vanished experience at least he would have some needed depth to make him likable other than just being an arrogant and full of himself brat.
 

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I'm so glad someone else came to the same conclusion. I don't know what else Terranort could mean by the "forbidden path" in the ReMind trailer. I'm interested to see how much of that they'll show/explain though.

The more we learn about about ReMind the more I want the Xehanort game we're never going to get!
When Terranort said "seeing that you have ALSO taken the forbidden path, you TOO must be ready to make the ultimate sacrifice" i was like... "also? you too? who else did it? is he talking about himself or MoM?"

YX knowing that Sora will disappear leads me to believe that the only reason Xehanort killed Kairi was just so Sora will abuse the power even more and make sure he will "vanish" and be transported to Shibuya. I am like, 90% sure that this is the only reason Xehanort killed Kairi, maybe this was all planned by MoM.
 

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Nomura should really give into temptation and make a Xehanort game. I’ve seen more people lately wishing for one than when KH3 ended. And even if it is a Xehanort game, it doesn’t mean it has to be a part of his Saga. It can easily be a bridge game to further set up the upcoming saga.
Honestly. I know Nomura was saying "but if I do that, then the Xehanort Saga wouldn't have ended with KH3 after all" but I don't think most people would mind such a thing. Plenty of series have had a big finale-type game and then followed up with a smaller prequel or interquel to fill in some missing info. What immediately springs to mind is how Peace Walker released after Metal Gear Solid 4. I am BEGGING, if not for a full-fledged Xehanort game, then at least for an "Episode Xehanort". I feel it's the last thing the series needs before transitioning to the Foretellers Saga feels truly appropriate. And like you mentioned, with Xehanort apparently having some connections to MoM as we see in ReMIND, it can still serve as setup for the next saga. The same way that Chi acted as a prequel, KH3 setup, and springboard into the new saga all at once, a Xehanort game/episode can serve multiple purposes as well.
 

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This reminds me of something I have wondered since first watching the opening cutscene.

What does Xehanort see in the sky before placing his first piece on the chess board? To me, it looks like it could be a heart, though not sure. If it were, whose heart would it be?

Whatever it is, it seems to compel Xehanort to make his first move. I guess this could be a representation of what happens with the MoM
 

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hmmmm reading this does bring another detail to mind that would mean absolutely nothing in any other series but is highly important here...

"Xehanort" from the chess game doesn't have the amber eyes, his signature characteristic shared by all the vessels he places his heart into. YX however does have those eyes, and all this knowledge about the Power of Waking, forbidden paths, and so on. Something else I found interesting is the journal descriptions for Eraqus and "Xehanort" in their youth as being "Boy in black" and "Boy in white". Why not use their actual names?? Maybe because one of them had a different name at that time.. before he was just "Another". Now we have this new character Yozora, night sky, who seems to be an anti sora of sorts.

What I am wondering about all of this is if Yozora was somehow created by the actions Sora took to save his friends. After recent seeing his likeliness in a video game, that memory manifested into what Sora saw as being this darker version of him. It might be a long shot but the eyes thing has been bugging me ever since I saw it at the beginning of KH3 and I am determined to find a reason for it occurring as it does.
 

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hmmmm reading this does bring another detail to mind that would mean absolutely nothing in any other series but is highly important here...

"Xehanort" from the chess game doesn't have the amber eyes, his signature characteristic shared by all the vessels he places his heart into. YX however does have those eyes, and all this knowledge about the Power of Waking, forbidden paths, and so on. Something else I found interesting is the journal descriptions for Eraqus and "Xehanort" in their youth as being "Boy in black" and "Boy in white". Why not use their actual names?? Maybe because one of them had a different name at that time.. before he was just "Another". Now we have this new character Yozora, night sky, who seems to be an anti sora of sorts.

What I am wondering about all of this is if Yozora was somehow created by the actions Sora took to save his friends. After recent seeing his likeliness in a video game, that memory manifested into what Sora saw as being this darker version of him. It might be a long shot but the eyes thing has been bugging me ever since I saw it at the beginning of KH3 and I am determined to find a reason for it occurring as it does.
You know... Another thing that went unexplained is the transparent Darkside that was in The Final World when we do the tutorial. It didn't look like the usual kind of Darksides at all, and right when you beat it, everything goes white... And leads into 2.8's secret ending (and 2.9 lol).

The timelines are weird, and maybe this plays into something deeper. I'm thinking the tutorial either happens right as Sora's hit with the Heartless Tornado OR when he uses the Power of Waking to escape The Final World. Seven Hearts to save = Seven Guardians of Light. So that would be:

Donald
Goofy
Aqua
Ven
Mickey
Riku
Lea

Sora dives as his KH1 self, steps into a mirror and becomes his KH2 self. Water comes and turns into a tidal wave. He sees a light, chases after it, and ends up in The Final World. Then he fights the Darkside and everything goes white. So maybe it's right when he defeats that Darkside is when he's sent back right to Riku's final stand and then we're led through different portals to fight the Lich.

Maybe the price that Sora paid didn't involve just chasing the Lich, but it was also defeating that weird Darkside. The Final World doesn't look like a place that would have any Heartless at all, and yet, it's there along with the usual Shadow Heartless that accompany it in every tutorial.

And somehow, Yozora is in The Final World with HIS full form like Sora is, just walking around. Maybe it's connected somehow.
 

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When Terranort said "seeing that you have ALSO taken the forbidden path, you TOO must be ready to make the ultimate sacrifice" i was like... "also? you too? who else did it? is he talking about himself or MoM?"

YX knowing that Sora will disappear leads me to believe that the only reason Xehanort killed Kairi was just so Sora will abuse the power even more and make sure he will "vanish" and be transported to Shibuya. I am like, 90% sure that this is the only reason Xehanort killed Kairi, maybe this was all planned by MoM.
Well that would explain the odd line about "You require motivation". He wasn't talking about clashing, but about Sora needing a extra shove to do what he and MoM wanted him to do.

You know... Another thing that went unexplained is the transparent Darkside that was in The Final World when we do the tutorial. It didn't look like the usual kind of Darksides at all, and right when you beat it, everything goes white... And leads into 2.8's secret ending (and 2.9 lol).

The timelines are weird, and maybe this plays into something deeper. I'm thinking the tutorial either happens right as Sora's hit with the Heartless Tornado OR when he uses the Power of Waking to escape The Final World. Seven Hearts to save = Seven Guardians of Light. So that would be:

Donald
Goofy
Aqua
Ven
Mickey
Riku
Lea

Sora dives as his KH1 self, steps into a mirror and becomes his KH2 self. Water comes and turns into a tidal wave. He sees a light, chases after it, and ends up in The Final World. Then he fights the Darkside and everything goes white. So maybe it's right when he defeats that Darkside is when he's sent back right to Riku's final stand and then we're led through different portals to fight the Lich.

Maybe the price that Sora paid didn't involve just chasing the Lich, but it was also defeating that weird Darkside. The Final World doesn't look like a place that would have any Heartless at all, and yet, it's there along with the usual Shadow Heartless that accompany it in every tutorial.

And somehow, Yozora is in The Final World with HIS full form like Sora is, just walking around. Maybe it's connected somehow.
When or where the turorial takes place is a mystery. There are a few points I can imagine it happening.

  1. Sora's way back from the Sleeping Realm, has a detour. (Probably one of the weaker ones. Though Kingstagram post doesn't rule ot out)
  2. When he falls at the keyblade graveyard on his way there. This one's my favorite seeing it matches with the line about seven hearts and shows him getting to the final world.
  3. When he leaves to go save everyone. The line about seven hearts to save still works, but him end in the Final World doesn't.
  4. When he goes to save Kairi. The line about seven hearts to save doesn't work so well, unless it's refering to something else than the guardians.
  5. When he fades. Fits seeing the intro line of the opening is said to happen at the end of the game. But otherwise it has the same issue as it being while he tries to save Kairi.
 

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Well that would explain the odd line about "You require motivation". He wasn't talking about clashing, but about Sora needing a extra shove to do what he and MoM wanted him to do.


When or where the turorial takes place is a mystery. There are a few points I can imagine it happening.

  1. Sora's way back from the Sleeping Realm, has a detour. (Probably one of the weaker ones. Though Kingstagram post doesn't rule ot out)
  2. When he falls at the keyblade graveyard on his way there. This one's my favorite seeing it matches with the line about seven hearts and shows him getting to the final world.
  3. When he leaves to go save everyone. The line about seven hearts to save still works, but him end in the Final World doesn't.
  4. When he goes to save Kairi. The line about seven hearts to save doesn't work so well, unless it's refering to something else than the guardians.
  5. When he fades. Fits seeing the intro line of the opening is said to happen at the end of the game. But otherwise it has the same issue as it being while he tries to save Kairi.
#1 really isn't all that impossible now that you bring it up, because Sora seemed to already understand that most of his abilities were wiped and DDD is right before KH3 begins. 2.8 was a part of KH3's narrative, and the tutorial did happen right before we're shown the cutscene. He ALSO apparently took a long time getting back as noted by Donald and Goofy, and while he said he was saying goodbye to all of his Dream Eaters... You never know.

...Actually, hold on. Maybe there might be more validity to this than we thought, because maybe this is why Sora was in his KH2 clothes and not in his KH3 attire. Seven hearts could allude to the Guardians themselves OR the New Seven Hearts. It's left open, but hm.

#2 is most likely, but then it doesn't explain why he then sorta... blanks out and then wakes up transparent. When he gets there in the tutorial, he had his body, but when Sora comes to in The Final World after the events of the Keyblade Graveyard, he doesn't (and that's when we need to do the "recompleting" mini-game).

...Unless that Darkside was connected to him, but then, what could the significance of its appearance be? TFW doesn't even look like it's a place that should even HAVE Heartless in it. Especially if it's part of the Sleeping Realm. Even if it's not though, TFW doesn't seem to be a place you can access by normal means, and generally you'd think the Heartless go to a place where they can devour hearts. The only thing I can think of is that the tutorial itself is a dream, which explains the change in his appearance. It still doesn't explain the Darkside though, and the fact that Jiminy's Journal even calls it mysterious as well definitely shows there's a reason for why it looks the way it does.

#3 could work if the Darkside for whatever reason is what triggers him to go back in time. It never really was explained how Sora used the Power of Waking to go back in time before everyone fell (unless he's using the same method Xehanort and his vessels used) and then was able to Dive into portal after portal after the Lich. After he goes back right to the moment where Riku falls, Sora seems confused with what's going on and then is led to Olympus (although nobody's there). The Power of Waking is used to traverse through hearts in order to reach worlds (Young Xehanort's words), and that's why we were able to go to Scala ad Caelum, but it was never said that it reverses time itself (unless I'm forgetting something). So it's strange.

#4 and #5 could be talking about the "black chess-pieces", but then it'd be weird because WHO is telling him this? Unless it's Yozora, and if so... Hoo boy, that's another can of worms. Especially when there's already the "I've been having these weird thoughts lately" line in the trailer, this would just be nuts. Even bigger question is, how and why would he know about the Foretellers and the Master of Masters?

...Unless he's also the same virus that Luxu was talking about in the Secret Reports, and that explains why he's in Shinjuku where Riku is, and the Master of Masters is somewhere around there too. And Yozora is like a pre-cautionary measure or something in order for the Worldline (or whatever/wherever) to not get completely destroyed. Idunno, there's a lot that could be done here.
 

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If the opening tutorial is supposed to take place during Sora’s journey to fix everything then the beginning kinda makes sense. In order to travel back in time a version of you is supposed to exist at the destination. When the game starts, for a brief moment we play as Sora from KH1. Maybe this is because he used his power to travel way farther back than we realized...
Which if it is the case then Sora really is about to rewrite all of Kingdom Hearts history which is absolutely crazy to think about. I do remember one if the earlier trailers having a voice over of Chirithy discussing time travel too.
 

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#1 really isn't all that impossible now that you bring it up, because Sora seemed to already understand that most of his abilities were wiped and DDD is right before KH3 begins. 2.8 was a part of KH3's narrative, and the tutorial did happen right before we're shown the cutscene. He ALSO apparently took a long time getting back as noted by Donald and Goofy, and while he said he was saying goodbye to all of his Dream Eaters... You never know.

...Actually, hold on. Maybe there might be more validity to this than we thought, because maybe this is why Sora was in his KH2 clothes and not in his KH3 attire. Seven hearts could allude to the Guardians themselves OR the New Seven Hearts. It's left open, but hm.



#2 is most likely, but then it doesn't explain why he then sorta... blanks out and then wakes up transparent. When he gets there in the tutorial, he had his body, but when Sora comes to in The Final World after the events of the Keyblade Graveyard, he doesn't (and that's when we need to do the "recompleting" mini-game).



...Unless that Darkside was connected to him, but then, what could the significance of its appearance be? TFW doesn't even look like it's a place that should even HAVE Heartless in it. Especially if it's part of the Sleeping Realm. Even if it's not though, TFW doesn't seem to be a place you can access by normal means, and generally you'd think the Heartless go to a place where they can devour hearts. The only thing I can think of is that the tutorial itself is a dream, which explains the change in his appearance. It still doesn't explain the Darkside though, and the fact that Jiminy's Journal even calls it mysterious as well definitely shows there's a reason for why it looks the way it does.



#3 could work if the Darkside for whatever reason is what triggers him to go back in time. It never really was explained how Sora used the Power of Waking to go back in time before everyone fell (unless he's using the same method Xehanort and his vessels used) and then was able to Dive into portal after portal after the Lich. After he goes back right to the moment where Riku falls, Sora seems confused with what's going on and then is led to Olympus (although nobody's there). The Power of Waking is used to traverse through hearts in order to reach worlds (Young Xehanort's words), and that's why we were able to go to Scala ad Caelum, but it was never said that it reverses time itself (unless I'm forgetting something). So it's strange.



#4 and #5 could be talking about the "black chess-pieces", but then it'd be weird because WHO is telling him this? Unless it's Yozora, and if so... Hoo boy, that's another can of worms. Especially when there's already the "I've been having these weird thoughts lately" line in the trailer, this would just be nuts. Even bigger question is, how and why would he know about the Foretellers and the Master of Masters?



...Unless he's also the same virus that Luxu was talking about in the Secret Reports, and that explains why he's in Shinjuku where Riku is, and the Master of Masters is somewhere around there too. And Yozora is like a pre-cautionary measure or something in order for the Worldline (or whatever/wherever) to not get completely destroyed. Idunno, there's a lot that could be done here.
#1 Yeah, in the beginning it seem rather open as to what it was referring to, was it the guardians or the princesses? It's vagueness worked for the opening tutorial especially for fans that followed the story.

Chirithy also noted that Sora had been to TFW before and this is the first time we saw it. Though he might have referred to his previous dives to the heart.

#2 Yeah the fact that Sora isn't transparent is kinda the biggest point that speaks against this possibility. Of course the fight with the Darkside could have triggered Sora falling a part, but that feels like a stretch.

#3 Sora cycling through his older outfits and appearances makes sense considering him traveling back through time. The Darkside might have represented his own Heartless, seeing it's the only final boss of the KH series that wasn't part of the Org. Alternatively it could have been something other than a Darkside, people have pointed out that it looked kinda like Kairi's body after she was strickend down, so it might be a Lightside or something.

I like the idea of it being the gate keeper that Sora had to defeat to get to the Past, but it's really unclear.

I'd claim that Sora was just a heart at that point so him travling back a la DDD's Time Travel rule is possible, but he did change time, which supposedly isn't possible. Also Chirithy did say his body was also casted into the TFW, which usually doesn't happen.

With #4 & #5 it's really too open to speculate, there are the 7 new Princesses, but also technically 7 of the Guardians, if time travel is involved.

I mean we don't know how Sora saves Kairi, the Re:mind trailers hint at a redo at rewinding Time, so he might have to save all 7 guardians again.

I feel like until we get Re:Mind #4 & 5 are just too vague to gauge.
 

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If the opening tutorial is supposed to take place during Sora’s journey to fix everything then the beginning kinda makes sense. In order to travel back in time a version of you is supposed to exist at the destination. When the game starts, for a brief moment we play as Sora from KH1. Maybe this is because he used his power to travel way farther back than we realized...
Which if it is the case then Sora really is about to rewrite all of Kingdom Hearts history which is absolutely crazy to think about. I do remember one if the earlier trailers having a voice over of Chirithy discussing time travel too.
I looked up the trailer and it opens with Chirithy saying...

"The heart you have now already existed during that time. It had already travelled back into the past. Nothing can change that fact"

This is really intriguing. It suggests that:

1 - A heart travelled from the future into Sora (though we don't actually see who Chirirthy is talking to then so possibly someone else).

2 - This heart was not Sora's original heart.

Leading to the questions of where the heart Sora has now comes from and where did his original heart go.
 
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