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Xehanort form



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xSora

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In the end of the game when MX appeard , Young Xehanort described him as his most future self(something like that)
but the one who appeard was Master Xehanort , even though the most future self should be the appertince(Terra-Xehanort)
When all the other nobodies destroyed , they all got back to their original form(except Xigbar & Saix who probably sent through time by Young Xehanort) since their heartless was destoryed too.
So , we know that Xehanort heartless destroyed and also Xemans destroyed , that means that the original form should return - and the original form should be "the most future self" because he is the only one who actually belongs to the present and didn't sent through time , and since we all know the original form of Xemans and Ansem SOD is Apperntice Xehanort(Terra-Xehanort) He was the one that should come back and not Master Xehanort himself.(It could be that MX return but not as the most future self)
what is going on there?
 

Solo

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Sorry, kind of confused by your sentences here. Let me see if I get this correct...

You're trying to say that the one who is referred to as "the most future self of Xehanort" should have been Terranort / Apprenticenort. And you're going by this timeline as the basis of your argument:

1. First there was YX.
2. YX grew up into MX.
3. MX possessed Terra, Terranort came to be.
4. Terranort assumed the identity of Apprenticenort, working under the guise of Ansem (this and the previous point may be merged into one anyway).
5. Apprenticenort cast away his heart, birthing Ansem SoD and Xemnas.
6. Ansem SoD was defeated.
7. Xemnas was defeated.

Since Ansem SoD and Xemnas were defeated, they should have led to Terranort's ressurection instead of MX, because Terranort is the one whom they were born from.

Am I right? Assuming that I am, let me express what I have in mind...

Ansem SoD and Xemnas are the Heartless and Nobody of Terranort, and we know for a fact that Terranort is a fusion of MX and Terra. I don't think it is entirely impossible that upon Ansem SoD and Xemnas' defeat, instead of Terranort returning, it is both MX and Terra who did. This adds two more points to the timeline:

8. MX and Terra return. Terra's whereabouts, as of now, is still unknown.
9. MX lives on, becoming the most future self of himself (confusing, I know) instead of Terranort.

To veer off a bit, Terra may or may not even be among the thirteen darknesses. MX hadn't specifically stated exactly who it is that's missing from Mickey's list of Keyblade wielders; it could be Terra, or heck, it could even be Ventus if Nomura wills so.

It could even be KH1!Riku (that is, when he was possessed by Ansem SoD) if you ask me. We know that Riku is one of the names in Mickey's list, and if it really is KH1!Riku that MX was talking about when he said "but Sora and another in your list belong to me now", he was still technically correct. KH1!Riku is just as Riku as KH3D!Riku is.

That's what I think, although I'm not at all saying that everything that I've expressed is true. Feel free to augment, dismiss, support, or bash my theory, because it's an open discussion!
 
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Sephiroth0812

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That Master Xehanort was resurrected instead of "Apprentice"-Nort is intentional on the part of the KH-staff.

It is a mystery deliberately left unexplained, as this snippet from the Ultimania proves:
DDD Ultimania said:
Q: What happened to Terra's heart and body?
A: In this game, Master Xehanort does not appear in the form of Terra-Xehanort when he transferred his heart, but as the old man he was before he took control of Terra's body. During the revival, what happened to Terra's body, and Terra's heart that was in opposition to Xehanort's control? In Kingdom Hearts, Birth by Sleep, it is to be considered that it was thought the whereabouts of the heart of Terra's master, Eraqus rested within his body.
 

Solo

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Hmm. I'm not sure if I understand the connection between these two sentences:

"During the revival, what happened to Terra's body, and Terra's heart that was in opposition to Xehanort's control?"

and

"In Kingdom Hearts, Birth by Sleep, it is to be considered that it was thought the whereabouts of the heart of Terra's master, Eraqus rested within his body."

To me, they seem detached. If I have to draw a link, that would be something like this: it's because of the presence of Eraqus' heart that caused Terranort to split into Terra and MX upon his revival after Ansem SoD and Xemnas had been defeated. I might be wrong, though... if I am, I'd very much appreciate clarification regarding this matter.

Anyway, if it's already explained as such in the Ultimania, I guess there's nothing we can do but wait and speculate further. At least we know that this is by no means an oversight that might have led to a plot hole.
 

xSora

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There might be something on timeline between the end of KH2 and the end of DDD , I mean when Xemans was defeated,Terranort was supposed to be back right away , since Ansem SOD has been defeated a long time ago before Xemans.
So maybe between that time when Xemans defeated(end of KH2 //Terranort should be back) untill MX appearnace in the room where nothing gathers(DDD End // a long time after KH2 ending) Something happend and Terra somehow managed to get Xehanort out of his heart/body , and when MX showed up it was after Terra got him out of his body.
 

Solo

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What you said is valid and entirely possible. However, a very important caveat to take note of right here is that we don't have the slightest idea how soon the revival took place after both the Heartless and Nobody had been defeated.

Take Ienzo for example. Zexion was eliminated during the events of CoM, yet his revival took place during DDD. One can argue that perhaps it's because his Heartless was defeated only slightly before DDD, and it's a valid argument, but what about Dilan, Even, Aeleus, and Lea? Their respective Nobodies were eliminated in different points of time during the course of the games, yet they were all revived at almost exactly the same time.

It's unlikely, although still possible, that their Heartless were defeated at almost exactly the same time, which could mean that revival is not as simple as being immediate. As for why they were revived at the same time, we don't know, too. It could well be a mere coincidence or with reasons yet unknown.

What I'm trying to say is that we don't know how much time had passed from Xemnas' defeat to MX's revival. During that period of time, anything can happen; xSora's theory remain valid, and so does that on Terranort splitting into his "constituents".

... I'm sorry. I might have completely veered out of the topic here.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Hmm. I'm not sure if I understand the connection between these two sentences:

"During the revival, what happened to Terra's body, and Terra's heart that was in opposition to Xehanort's control?"

and

"In Kingdom Hearts, Birth by Sleep, it is to be considered that it was thought the whereabouts of the heart of Terra's master, Eraqus rested within his body."

To me, they seem detached. If I have to draw a link, that would be something like this: it's because of the presence of Eraqus' heart that caused Terranort to split into Terra and MX upon his revival after Ansem SoD and Xemnas had been defeated. I might be wrong, though... if I am, I'd very much appreciate clarification regarding this matter.

Anyway, if it's already explained as such in the Ultimania, I guess there's nothing we can do but wait and speculate further. At least we know that this is by no means an oversight that might have led to a plot hole.

They are detached because they do not belong so close together. The first sentence only gives out the questions to speculate about while the second reminds the audience that it was hinted in Birth By Sleep that Eraqus' Heart rests within Terra's.

If anything, it's a hint in Nomura's typical vague speech patterns that Eraqus' heart may have something to do with the mess, which is actually something he preached ever since the BBS secret ending Blank Points was officially released.
Nomura keeps on reminding the audience about Eraqus' heart being in Terra and that it may be important later, but he doesn't reveal any further information on this.
Unlike the Sora/Ventus/Roxas-connection, which is pretty clear and explored throughout the series, the whole Xehanort/Terra/Eraqus-mess is kept under wraps on purpose while constantly being teased about.

Since we do not know if MX and Terra even split at all, we can set that only as speculation as well, but that is actually what Nomura wants.
There is no clarfication on the matter, also in regards to Eraqus and why MX came back because Nomura does not want a clarfication on this (yet).

Yep, it's indeed not a plothole, in fact, many of the points some people designate as plotholes throughout the series are not even really plotholes at all.

There might be something on timeline between the end of KH2 and the end of DDD , I mean when Xemans was defeated,Terranort was supposed to be back right away , since Ansem SOD has been defeated a long time ago before Xemans.
So maybe between that time when Xemans defeated(end of KH2 //Terranort should be back) untill MX appearnace in the room where nothing gathers(DDD End // a long time after KH2 ending) Something happend and Terra somehow managed to get Xehanort out of his heart/body , and when MX showed up it was after Terra got him out of his body.

We do not know how long the revival of the original persona takes after both Heartless and Nobody are destroyed, so to say that Terra-Xehanort should be back "right away" cannot be confirmed. It could even be thathe period of time needed for the revival is different for every being.
Then there is not to forget that Xehanort is a special case in every possible direction, so what exactly happened is murky.
It is however highly possible that due to some circumstances Terra's body may be no longer Master Xehanort's main host, even if it is still used as one of the thirteen vessels, either controlled by a shard of MX's heart or possibly even the newly grown heart of Xemnas.

There is no "long time" after the KH 2 ending though, as Re: Coded takes place directly after KH 2 and takes only a few days, and between KH 2 and DDD less than a year has passed.
 

xSora

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In the game , it seems like Xehanort revival is completed and he appears in the rooms where nothing gather for the first time after Xemans and Ansem SOD been defeated , it seems like that when he comes back , however it's impossible because ,
We don't know how long revival take , so the "right away" can't be confirmed.
But , we do know that he revived before he appeard in where nothing gathers room.
Because the revived person should appear(when he comes back) in the place he fell to darkness ,
So the revived Xehanort should appear in Radient Garden like all of the other apprentices.
What I'm trying to say is that when Xehanort appeard in the room where nothing gathers, it wasn't because
his revival is now complete and he's coming back, because when his revival is complete he should appear in Radient Garden(not in the world that never was)
Also, all the vessles had been waiting for him in that room, so how could they all know exactly where his revival going to complete and when he is coming back? Its like they knew when his revival about to complete and where he is gonna appear ..(Doesn't make any sesne)
So that means that he showed up before we first saw him in that room , because he was meant to appear in Radient Garden , and it's doesn't make any sense that his vessels knew exactly when & where he is about to show up.
so maybe he didn't showed up right away after Xemans was defeated , But I'm pretty sure he came back before the scene in the room where nothing gathers , So maybe in that time between when he came back and this scene, something happend between Terra and Xehanort. (Eraqus intervention ?)
 

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My belief is that it's impossible, at least right now, for us to arrive at a definite conclusion about the exact point of time when MX was revived. With time travel thrown into the picture, the notion that his revival took place before that showdown in Where Nothing Gathers (or Round Room, whichever you prefer) is just as possible as after it.

Meaning, it's possible that when the twelve selves of MX had been gathered in the room, MX himself had not been revived yet. He might have been there courtesy of time travel; it might be that he was (or should I say, will be) revived in RG at a later time, way after Lea and the other's revival.

As for why the vessels waiting in the room, to the best of my knowledge, it was the quest given to YX by XH (Robed Figure). YX is the one who ensured that all of them were present when MX would make his appearance. He travelled through time, fetching each and every one them from their respective continua and gathering them together in the current continuum in which the events of DDD unfolded.
 
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xSora

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By the way I just wanted to add .. It's a theory about how all the org member revived at the same time even though they were'nt defeated in same time.
however, with the creation of the Organization’s Kingdom Hearts. As a result, released hearts do not return to their former body, but instead join this false Kingdom Hearts. Many of the members hearts had been freed by Sora and co. but because of the Organization’s Kingdom Hearts, they could not return to their bodies.

By defeating Xemnas, Sora set Kingdom Hearts free, allowing all of the captured hearts to return to their rightful places. This led to the Organization members to reawaken as complete beings at relatively the same time. Whether or not every Organization member has been recompleted is yet to be seen.


That means that if Zexion(for example) was defeated during Chain Of Memories and Xaldin during KHII
They both revived in the same time because their hearts was captured in the Organization's Kingdom Hearts and couldn't be set free and return to their bodies.
But when Sora free Kingdom Hearts and releases those hearts , they can go back to their bodies and that's how they all revived and became a complete person the same time - because their hearts released at the same time , it doesn't matter when the nobody is defeated as long as the hearts is still captured . So it doesn't matter if they were defeated in CoM or in KH2 they all revived the same time because they hearts released the same time (when sora set kingdom hearts free)

but it just a theory I guess.
 

Solo

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That's certainly an interesting theory. So going by this, once Xemnas was defeated, it's possible for his original being (which may or may not be Terranort) to be revived along with the former Organization's numbers II to VIII in the computer room. I see now that this is the basis of your arguments, which I personally think is very sound.

But once again, just as Sephiroth had said earlier, the time required for revival (respawn time, if you would) might be different from being to being. We know that MX is a man of a very, very strong heart, so it stands to reason that he might need more time until his revival because, speaking in slightly scientific terms, the energy required for such an event to take place is so high. At the same time, it's also possible that because of the strength of his heart, he was revived earlier than the others. At this point, we just can't know; anyone can be right, or if Nomura has been trolling us all along, everybody can be wrong.

I hope we haven't gone off topic yet, considering the discussion was supposed to be about Xehanort's form assumed by him upon revival. Although... we already know that this one is intentional on the part of the developers.
 

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Though I think it's to early to be sure of anything but it's very possible MX left a seed in terra and returned to his own body to make up the difference for 13 seekers.

Or perhaps defeating Ansem and Xemnas not only returned them to whole but also forced out Xehanort since we don't really know much about the nature of the explosion that expelled Ansem from Riku's body.

they all got back to their original form(except Xigbar & Saix who probably sent through time by Young Xehanort) since their heartless was destoryed too.

I think it's also important to point out that not all the org members are time traveling:

—Were the 13 Seekers of Darkness, who were meant to be in different times, gathered by transcending time with magic?

Nomura: Just as it says in the story, to transcend time one must ‘first’ discard their form. As a result of the actions of the Brown Robed Figure, they all were in a state where they had gained the power to transcend time. The Brown Robed Figure explains the facts. The thirteen were summoned at the same time, this time thanks to Young Xehanort who borrowed that power. However, apart from Young Xehanort, that does not mean that all the members transcended time.

So that may have indeed been Xigbar and Siax as human again.
 

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without reading any of the comments, Xemnas is Terra's body and Xemnas' heart. When he was destroyed, both of those went into limbo, but they didn't necessarily stay together. They probably gravitated to other parts of the same person who were also in limbo. I.E. Xehanorts heart from the destroyed Xemnas left terra's body from destroyed Xemnas and went to MX body in limbo, as well as Xehanort heart pieces from the destroyed Xigbar, Saix, and Ansem SoD. thus MX was revived.

At the end of KH1, Ansem SoD was Riku's body controlled by Xehanort's heart/heartless (Whichever Ansem SoD is). When he was destroyed, he was removed from Riku's body, but managed to leave a small piece behind. Maybe this is what Xemnas did, leaving a small fragment of Xehanort's heart in Terra's body before being destroyed, and when Terra came back, he was a Xehanort or would soon develop into one.
Or maybe Terra's not even back yet because part could still be in his armor in the Keyblade Graveyard.
 

Gram

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without reading any of the comments, Xemnas is Terra's body and Xemnas' heart. When he was destroyed, both of those went into limbo, but they didn't necessarily stay together. They probably gravitated to other parts of the same person who were also in limbo. I.E. Xehanorts heart from the destroyed Xemnas left terra's body from destroyed Xemnas and went to MX body in limbo, as well as Xehanort heart pieces from the destroyed Xigbar, Saix, and Ansem SoD. thus MX was revived.

MX's heartpieces couldn't have returned to him, if they had you wouldn't get the Xehaorg you seen in DDD.
 

Beardman

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What you said is valid and entirely possible. However, a very important caveat to take note of right here is that we don't have the slightest idea how soon the revival took place after both the Heartless and Nobody had been defeated.

Take Ienzo for example. Zexion was eliminated during the events of CoM, yet his revival took place during DDD. One can argue that perhaps it's because his Heartless was defeated only slightly before DDD, and it's a valid argument, but what about Dilan, Even, Aeleus, and Lea? Their respective Nobodies were eliminated in different points of time during the course of the games, yet they were all revived at almost exactly the same time.

It's unlikely, although still possible, that their Heartless were defeated at almost exactly the same time, which could mean that revival is not as simple as being immediate. As for why they were revived at the same time, we don't know, too. It could well be a mere coincidence or with reasons yet unknown.

What I'm trying to say is that we don't know how much time had passed from Xemnas' defeat to MX's revival. During that period of time, anything can happen; xSora's theory remain valid, and so does that on Terranort splitting into his "constituents".

... I'm sorry. I might have completely veered out of the topic here.

If I'm understanding your point here, the reason they would all revive at the same time is likely due to there hearts being a part of Xemnas' Kingdom Hearts that was destroyed and let so many hearts go at once.
 

Genocide

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Where is Terra?
He's in Riku.

Eraqus' heart is in Terra's body.

Eraqus is in Terra and Terra is in Riku.

Kingdom Hearts - the series where old men are inside of young boys.
 

Gram

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^ We dotn know where terra is actually, his state of being has yet to be confirmed.
 

Gram

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I'd wager that Terra's body is in the RoD or RoS.

In DDD MX stated that "Sora and another on your list belong to me now" when Mickey was counting possible guardians of light. And since the only one on mickey's list that counts is terra it's safe to assume Terra is under MX control in some form.
 
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