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Would kingdom hearts 3 been much better if Final Fantasy 7 remake wasn't announced or even in development?



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Hello. I thought about this looking at kingdom hearts 3, and Final Fantasy 7 remake respectively. I'm gonna explain the best I can.

Even with the legitimate criticism of kingdom hearts 3, it would have been different if it has Final Fantasy 7 remake production. Had nomura just focus on kingdom hearts 3 if Final Fantasy 7 remake wasn't in development, The game would have appeased more people. I say appeased because you can't please everyone (especially in gaming).

Imagine if square enix gave Kingdom Hearts 3 the final fantasy 7 remake treatment. All hands on deck, bigger budget, more thought out writing process, more world's, more keyblades, and more thing's we want.

Yes kingdom hearts 3 is no exception to criticism, but look at square with Final Fantasy 7 remake. They went all in to not mess this up.

Hopefully at Final Fantasy 7 remake, the next kingdom hearts finale will get the Final fantasy 7 remake treatment.

Sorry for grammar. I'm open to discussion, so share your opinions on this.
 

Perkilator

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I think if another studio was in charge of KH3’s development, and Nomura was only a supervisor, it would save him a lot of extra stress above the stress already present with him directing FF7R
 

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If FF7R wasn't in development, Nomura wouldn't have been removed from FFXV and he'd be working instead on the Versus epic.

No other SE game will ever get the same treatment as FF7R. That game will be the company's magnum opus.
 

OneDandelion

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If the FF7 remake wasn't announced it would've been something else. KH is probably my favorite series that SE produces but I guess they don't feel the same way.

Obviously if they allocated more people to the project it would've turned out better... It would have also been better if they were more competent and didn't change engines half way through development.

Honestly, overall its hard to say. Imo Square Enix is not the capable game company they used to be, they push theatrics and cinematography way too far - which results in some cool boss fights and cinematics to be sure, but their games have been suffering for it. I also doubt this is completely the fault of the individual project managers because once they realize they're in trouble they seem to find a way to get themselves back on track.

As much as I love FF7, i wish they wouldn't look to a remake as their magnum opus. Something tells me I'll still enjoy the original more anyway, creating 3 separate games for this remake means its probably going to be 100+ hours of gameplay and i'm not really about that, even if it looks pretty.
 

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I don't even think FF7 is the best Final Fantasy, but @Sign may be right. Even though a lot of people will never forget Chrono Trigger...

As for your question, in a world where KH3 would be Square top priority the game would indeed be better. I'm not even talking about having more content, with some of the FF7 Remake staff working on it the game would most likely have a better gameplay core, direction and writing.
 
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GreyouTT

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Nomura didn't even know he was the head of 7R until the internal presentation of the E3 reveal. So I'd say that probably altered his plans somewhat.
 

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I don't really think so, but maybe? Not because of nomura, of course. I mean, Nomura probably did get bothered for accounting two projects at the same time, but a game isn't made by only one guy, that's a work for a reaaaally big team of people, in which Nomura only supervises and approves/disapproves.
 
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legacier

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I mean, in general things would be better if Nomura wasn't always directing multiple projects at the same time. FF7R and KH3 are/were two of Square's most anticipated games ever so I'll never comprehend why they decided to have them developed concurrently and led by the same person. That's not to mention that most of the non-numbered KH games were made while he was directing Versus, and we saw how that ended. At any rate, obviously FF7 will always take precedent over everything, so there's no possible course of events where the remake doesn't detract from Square's other projects.
 

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If FF7R wasn't in development, Nomura wouldn't have been removed from FFXV and he'd be working instead on the Versus epic.

No other SE game will ever get the same treatment as FF7R. That game will be the company's magnum opus.
I don't know how a 1/3 remake of a 1997 game can be their magnum opus.
 

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No, because Nomura would have been working on something else like FFXV or Versus or a whole new idea because that’s the kind of guy he is.

I don't know how a 1/3 remake of a 1997 game can be their magnum opus.
She means the remake as a whole. Square Enix execs have said numerous times prior to the announcement of FF7R that if they remake FF7, it would be the biggest undertaking they have ever done. These aren’t fan words hyping up a remake, this is acknowledging that even SE knows that there won’t be anything else like their success with FF7 or the level of work that will be going into the remake.
 

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Perhaps in scope but scope alone is not enough to call it their magnum opus.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Let's address several points...

1.) Square Enix has several "business divisions" (development teams). FINAL FANTASY titles have business divisions, other projects and KINGDOM HEARTS has its own development team as well, meaning that the development of X or Y project won't interfere with KH. Plus these aren't the Yoichi Wada days, where personnel shifting as constant, though I doubt they would have touched the team assigned to the KH franchise.

2.) Like others have said, if Nomura wasn't working on the Remake, he would have been busy finishing the Versus Trilogy, and who knows, maybe start a spinoff universe from the Versus Epic, and I honestly think the existence of Versus would have hit the KH franchise hard in terms of creativity and motivation, seeing as how Nomura would have been more enthusiastic to work Versus.

3.) Even though Nomura is the director of the Remake, it's to my understanding that they've assigned another person and he's now more of a co-director. And I have the small feeling that they're slowly grooming the new co-director in order to have him directly supervise the rest of the project, while Nomura supervises from away, busy with other stuff.
 

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3.) Even though Nomura is the director of the Remake, it's to my understanding that they've assigned another person and he's now more of a co-director. And I have the small feeling that they're slowly grooming the new co-director in order to have him directly supervise the rest of the project, while Nomura supervises from away, busy with other stuff.
Nomura is the Director, but he has Naoki Hamaguchi as the Co-Director of Game Design/Programming and Motomu Toriyama as Co-Director of Scenario Design. Others are stepping up where they are needed but Nomura is still the one in charge.
 

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Let's address several points...

1.) Square Enix has several "business divisions" (development teams). FINAL FANTASY titles have business divisions, other projects and KINGDOM HEARTS has its own development team as well, meaning that the development of X or Y project won't interfere with KH. Plus these aren't the Yoichi Wada days, where personnel shifting as constant, though I doubt they would have touched the team assigned to the KH franchise.

2.) Like others have said, if Nomura wasn't working on the Remake, he would have been busy finishing the Versus Trilogy, and who knows, maybe start a spinoff universe from the Versus Epic, and I honestly think the existence of Versus would have hit the KH franchise hard in terms of creativity and motivation, seeing as how Nomura would have been more enthusiastic to work Versus.

3.) Even though Nomura is the director of the Remake, it's to my understanding that they've assigned another person and he's now more of a co-director. And I have the small feeling that they're slowly grooming the new co-director in order to have him directly supervise the rest of the project, while Nomura supervises from away, busy with other stuff.
To be fair though while they aren't in the level as EA or Konami, Square Enix during the early-mid 2010's have been very wishy-washy with their video game development not to mention being inconsistent with their development slate and announce certain titles VERY EARLY in development resulting in little to no info on those titles for the next 3-5 years on when it's coming out (e.g. KH3, FFVII remake, the Avengers game, etc.) and just want to focus on the ones they want to release (e.g. Dragon Quest, certain Final Fantasy titles, and those from Eidos Interactive (Hitman, Tomb Raider)). Plus, they tend to "shoot themselves in the foot" and resulted in some people leaving the company (e.g. Tabata).

It's a good thing that since last year we finally got new info for the FFVII remake (3 1/2 years later), and the Avengers game (2 years later) along with both titles coming out this year (2020).

Look I get it development of games takes 2 to 4 years, but seriously having to wait 3-5 years with no info for a title that was announced in development is crazy, I'm hoping that whoever is running Square Enix right now know what he's doing when it comes to their titles coming out, and in development I just hope that with the 2020's decade moving forward they don't run like how they did it during the early-mid 2010's or when FFXV was under FFversusXIII and pressuring Nomura.
 

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Final Fantasy VII is a game that's near and dear to many people's hearts. Even moreso than the Kingdom Hearts series. So while KH3 was highly anticipated and there were a lot of pressure to deliver... It's not the same as FF7 Remake's pressure to succeed. Not even close. They can afford to miss the mark on KH3, FF7R flopping would be worse than FFXIV 1.0, and that actually almost killed the company... So you can imagine why everyone in Square is on edge. But that doesn't mean Square didn't put effort into KH3 -- obviously they did.

Now, if it wasn't in development? Who knows? I believe KH3 is the story Nomura wanted to tell unless he comes out and says otherwise. And it's also clear that he wanted the Osaka Team to take on KH3 since they've had enough experience on the KH titles to do so. So I think we would've gotten what we have now anyway, but probably a lot earlier than January 2019.

But I also think that he would've been working on other titles simultaneously because Versus XIII was a thing before Birth by Sleep even had a release date. In fact, we'd probably still be getting content from that universe because if him getting booted off FFXV and him becoming the FF7R happened around the same time frame, he'd still be at the helm of FFXV. Late 2016 was the release date for FFXV so if we were getting the Versus Epic or FFXV's trilogy, we'd most likely be expecting the second game to come out this year -- just like FF7R.

All of this is hypothetical of course, but to sum it up... We probably would've gotten a more expansive KH3 and earlier (provided the engine issues never happened), but I think the essence of what makes KH3 the game it is would still be there.
 

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KH3 felt more like a preview for a whole new set of stories, than it truly felt like a conclusive ending. I don't think that's FF7R's fault, as much as it is Nomura trying to get us all hype and talking about whatever new directions he's going with the franchise - and that kind of deflated the effect of KH3's conclusion to the still not completely explained Xehanort saga, or at least that may be true for some of the fans that have been really following the events in the KHUX universe.

I felt like KH3 should've been made a bit earlier, before Nomura had pretty much already, in terms of interest and motivation, moved on in the franchise in all these new directions - but I don't know that for a fact, it's just a feeling.
 

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Final Fantasy VII is a game that's near and dear to many people's hearts. Even moreso than the Kingdom Hearts series. So while KH3 was highly anticipated and there were a lot of pressure to deliver... It's not the same as FF7 Remake's pressure to succeed. Not even close. They can afford to miss the mark on KH3, FF7R flopping would be worse than FFXIV 1.0, and that actually almost killed the company... So you can imagine why everyone in Square is on edge. But that doesn't mean Square didn't put effort into KH3 -- obviously they did.
Well, the negative reaction to both could equally affect the future of either franchise, seeing as KH3 is the culmination of everything in that entire series and FFVII is a remake of the most popular FF. In that way, they're the same. The main difference is SE and Nomura probably realized they didn't have to worry as much about whether KH3 was 100% perfect or not because it had Disney properties to fall back onto that would ensure the game's success regardless. EDIT: As I was writing that, I couldn't help thinking that KH3 was the series' final step toward evolving into what everyone had expected from KH1 before it defied those expectations: a hollow advertisement for Disney properties. The Disney characters aren't used in any meaningful way anymore; they've been moving that direction for a while, so it's not solely a KH3 problem.

I personally don't attach whatever KH3's flaws are--and people disagree on what those are--to the fact that other games were in development. I usually put it down more to Nomura not really caring about the KH series anymore as much as other games he works on, with a great helping of bitterness over FFXV thrown in. A lot of things about KH3 just felt like he was over it and decided instead to use the time working on KH3 to morph the KH characters/story into something that he didn't get to complete on FFXV which will take full direction of KH post-3 (to KH's detriment, imo).
 
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GreyouTT

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I honestly think if Versus 13 had not gone into development hell and come out as planned, DDD wouldn't have happened and KH3 would have been WAY different. Coded/Re:coded even feels like an Interquel that was meant to not be a big jump in continuity like CoM was.
 

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Nomura is the Director, but he has Naoki Hamaguchi as the Co-Director of Game Design/Programming and Motomu Toriyama as Co-Director of Scenario Design. Others are stepping up where they are needed but Nomura is still the one in charge.
Thanks for the clarification. I thought that with the designation of Co-Directors, this meant that Nomura was more of "a part of", and not still "the boss".

Square Enix during the early-mid 2010's have been very wishy-washy with their video game development
That was because of then president Yoichi Wada and the debacles the company had with the Crystal Tools in-house development engine, troubles with FINAL FANTASY XIII and FFXIV.

not to mention being inconsistent with their development slate and announce certain titles VERY EARLY in development
Square Enix established an internal policy to stop announcing projects very early in their lifetime, so we can expect that to stop. Take for example Bravely Default II. If the game is being announced for 2020, then definitely expect it this year, or at most, they could delay it for a couple of months.
 

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I personally don't attach whatever KH3's flaws are--and people disagree on what those are--to the fact that other games were in development. I usually put it down more to Nomura not really caring about the KH series anymore as much as other games he works on, with a great helping of bitterness over FFXV thrown in. A lot of things about KH3 just felt like he was over it and decided instead to use the time working on KH3 to morph the KH characters/story into something that he didn't get to complete on FFXV which will take full direction of KH post-3 (to KH's detriment, imo).
I'm gonna be honest, and maybe this is a hot take here (none of this is an attack on you, but moreso a general statement, now that the opportunity is here) but I HIGHLY doubt he doesn't care about the KH series anymore, I feel like this is the biggest overreaction ever, and people need to chill.

Okay, so KH3 isn't the masterpiece people were hoping for. Disappointments happen, it is what it is. But just because certain things don't come out the way you hope, doesn't mean the guy absolutely doesn't care about the series anymore. He clearly does care, because he still wrote the story for KHUX, he's still doing interviews for KH ReMIND, he's still appearing at concerts... All of this on top of everything he's doing for the Remake. It's the story he wanted to tell, and like it or not (again, not directed specifically to you), that's what we're getting moving forward.

If he didn't care about the series as much as he used to, he would've never introduced Back Cover, made KHUX canon, and put the Foretellers in the epilogue. He would've just wrapped the whole series up in KH3 and not cared if there were unanswered questions or the game felt too congested. But that isn't the case. In fact, KHUX is looking to be the vehicle for new KH story from here on until whenever it ends OR the next game is announced. So it's clear he does. Maybe he's overeager, sure, but the guy still loves the franchise a ton.

And addressing the FFXV stuff too... What if it was always meant to be combined? Nomura mentioned that Sora and Noctis were named for specific reasons, specifically in terms of how their names are opposites, so who's to say he wasn't playing the long game and Noctis was going to be in the KH-Universe to this degree anyway? We'll never really know for sure unless he comes out and says it. And he can't (at least right now) because of just how taboo Versus XIII as a topic apparently was in the company. But seeing as how much groundwork this would take, it probably was intentional even back then.

Speaking more personally, I'm a creative. And from my perspective, if I had an idea taken from me and not even have it done properly according to my own vision, I'd feel some type of way too. People write it off as "lol Nomura stop being salty" but this clearly meant a lot to him... And the same people who say that, are the same ones that get super triggered when their art is posted on a forum or Reddit without permission or stolen from their Patreon (which is justified, btw). It's easy to say "get over it" when it's not them who has to deal with it. I get why some people wouldn't be too keen on it, but, it's still his creation.

I think... It's getting to a point where some people may just have to come to grips with the fact that where the series is going, it might just not be for them anymore. It happens. You love things for a time, and then your taste changes, and suddenly it's not your thing. But everyone's opinion is valid. I'm not telling anyone to leave the franchise or fandom, but I do think there's gonna come a time when people will need to ask themselves if they still want to be on the train. And if not, that's fine, you still have all the games that stuck a chord with you. As for me, I'm still more than excited to be here, but if the stuff is turning you off... It might just be time to step away for a while, and there's no shame in that.
 
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