Would Cloud Beat Sora In a Canon Fight?



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OkaruAudo

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A friend and I have been arguing this for a while, and though he doesn't believe Sora could win, I think that by the end of Kingdom Hearts II he could, for a few reasons. For one, due to the fact that Sephiroth was practically a god at the end of Final Fantasy VII, I do not think Cloud would honestly win that fight, it was more of a story progression than a true victory it seems, which would mean Cloud doesn't possess god-like strength. That said I have never played FF VII so I can not be too sure, don't hate me if I'm wrong.

However a lot of people seem to use the fact that Cloud can cut through buildings, has a giant sword, and amazing strength as their main reasons. Although by the end of KHII Sora can slice through buildings, has amazing strength, and great agility, I feel he could easily evade most of Cloud's attacks. Sora also only uses MP for magic while Cloud uses Materia, which is limited due to the damage it causes, I think. The reason this is in the KHII section is because I believe Sora could beat cloud by the end of the game.

Sora has forms as well, but without his friends fighting at his side he could only use his Limit Form. It doesn't seem fair for Sora to have his friends unless Cloud can have teammates. Meanwhile on Cloud's end we have a ribbon that prevents status effects and decreases damage taken from magic, and I'm sure he has other things going for him I don't know about.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Sora would demolish Cloud, but by the end of KHII I feel like the close battle between the two would result in Sora being the victor, however from what I've seen of KHIII it seems the battle would be easier then for Sora due to his mastery and abilities to transform the keyblade along with his previous strength. And I don't think Sora could beat Sephiroth truthfully, as I don't think Cloud could, Sephiroth was a god. Anyways, what are your opinions on this, who would win, Cloud or Sora?
 
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Voyageer

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Considering you can beat Cloud twice in KHI, I feel like Sora would win in KHII also. I haven't played FFVII yet, so I can't provide much in Cloud's part
 

RoomKey

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Nah. I mean, you can already beat Cloud in KH1 and kinda weirdly canonically beat Sephiroth.
 

Xickin

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Mmm, tough one. On one hand, the scenario that was supposed to happen (and not accounting for the player's skills) is that Cloud was supposed to beat Sora in KH1. But now in like KH2 and onward it's hard to say. Also, Cloud probably had his equipment on (FF7 translating to KH2). I think Sora would though, just because he has all these magical powers that collaborate with his fighting technique. Cloud's a great fighter and a lot stronger and faster, but Sora could even the playing field with his Drive forms.
 

OkaruAudo

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But that's the thing, to even use his drive forms he would need his friends and that really makes the fight unfair. But in his Final form he would definitely win due to possessing the ability to fly and having telekinesis and dual-wielding on his side.
 

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You people do realize that the KH versions of Final Fantasy characters, such as Cloud, aren't the same ones as you see in the actual FF games right?

Nomura redsigns them, gives them new backstories, and even slight personality change like with Leon and puts them into KH.
What does this mean? Simple they aren't as hax as their original FF version because it's a different version in a different universe for cameo purposes.
 

Xickin

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Um, yeah, do you realize we're talking about a scenario where FF7 Cloud fights Sora, not KH? (Well I was at least)
 
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Sephiroth0812

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Um, yeah, do you realize we're talking about a scenario where FF7 Cloud fights Sora, not KH? (Well I was at least)
Well, if you go by that premise and use the actual, true FF characters instead of their KH incarnations, nearly every playable Final Fantasy character would wipe the floor with Sora as the FF-cameos created specifically for the KH universe are deliberately toned down and less powerful than their original FF variants due to a) their drastically different roles in the KH-verse and b) to make the KH original characters look better.
In gameplay terms, Sora would probably even die in one hit as so far all KH games only give Sora three-digit maximum HP while all the older FFs can have 9.999 HP maximum (for playable characters like Cloud) or even 99.999 in newer titles.
In the original FF VIII at the very beginning of the game Squall could already do more than 150 damage with a single attack, so true FF-Squall could one-shot Sora if he manages to land one clean hit.

Sora didn't even "win" any of the fights with the KH-incarnations of Sephiroth as the KH 1 fight is non-canon (Sora and Sephiroth are introduced to each other only in KH 2) while in KH 2 Sephiroth was only toying with Sora and wanted to see how skilled he is.
His only reaction after the battle is to leisurely dust off his coat and complimenting Sora on how long he managed to keep up with him.
The true FF-Sephiroth managed to destroy a summoned Ifrit with a single blow in Crisis Core, and that was while he was still sane and on the side of the good guys.
Or as another example for the power of the "good", pre-insanity Sephiroth, one may also watch this scene from Crisis Core (note: both Angeal and Genesis are pretty good fighters in their own right):
[video=youtube;1KxjGn30PDA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KxjGn30PDA[/video]

Speaking about Sephiroth, with him the problem runs even deeper than with other FF characters as it was stated more than once that not even the true FF-Sephiroth ever used/showed the true extend of his powers in any appearance he made so far (this includes both Advent Children and Dissidia).
As for Cloud, if he's the true FFVII Cloud and you are inclined to allow Sora to have all his abilities of KH, FFVII Cloud would also have access to all the true FFVII-abilities which would mean all his limits and at maximum 16 Materia equipped. This would include summoning Materia like i.e. Bahamut Zero, Hades (FFVII version which inflicts nearly all status ailments) or Knights of the Round, poweful magic materia like Ultima or Contain (which allows access to very powerful elemental spells that inflict additionally a status ailment), support materia like Quadra-magic, HP/MP-Absorb or Magic Counter (a possibly devastating thing for Sora as any attack he successfully lands could be countered with the linked Magic OR Summon Materia) or Command Materia like 4xCut or Enemy Skill.
A sufficiently filled Enemy Skill Materia alone could already be enough for Cloud to gain and maintain the upper hand as he could easily and with little cost reduce Sora's MP use by casting Magic Hammer on him, heal and buff himself with White Wind, Big Guard and Dragon Force as well as using deadly area-of-effect spells like Beta, Aqualung, Trine and Shadow Flare.

And for the record, the true FF-versions of Cid Highwind, Yuffie and Aerith would be capable of doing the very same as there can be multiple versions of the same Materia.
 

kingdom777

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Well, if you go by that premise and use the actual, true FF characters instead of their KH incarnations, nearly every playable Final Fantasy character would wipe the floor with Sora as the FF-cameos created specifically for the KH universe are deliberately toned down and less powerful than their original FF variants due to a) their drastically different roles in the KH-verse and b) to make the KH original characters look better.
In gameplay terms, Sora would probably even die in one hit as so far all KH games only give Sora three-digit maximum HP while all the older FFs can have 9.999 HP maximum (for playable characters like Cloud) or even 99.999 in newer titles.
In the original FF VIII at the very beginning of the game Squall could already do more than 150 damage with a single attack, so true FF-Squall could one-shot Sora if he manages to land one clean hit.

Sora didn't even "win" any of the fights with the KH-incarnations of Sephiroth as the KH 1 fight is non-canon (Sora and Sephiroth are introduced to each other only in KH 2) while in KH 2 Sephiroth was only toying with Sora and wanted to see how skilled he is.
His only reaction after the battle is to leisurely dust off his coat and complimenting Sora on how long he managed to keep up with him.
The true FF-Sephiroth managed to destroy a summoned Ifrit with a single blow in Crisis Core, and that was while he was still sane and on the side of the good guys.
Or as another example for the power of the "good", pre-insanity Sephiroth, one may also watch this scene from Crisis Core (note: both Angeal and Genesis are pretty good fighters in their own right):
[video=youtube;1KxjGn30PDA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KxjGn30PDA[/video]

Speaking about Sephiroth, with him the problem runs even deeper than with other FF characters as it was stated more than once that not even the true FF-Sephiroth ever used/showed the true extend of his powers in any appearance he made so far (this includes both Advent Children and Dissidia).
As for Cloud, if he's the true FFVII Cloud and you are inclined to allow Sora to have all his abilities of KH, FFVII Cloud would also have access to all the true FFVII-abilities which would mean all his limits and at maximum 16 Materia equipped. This would include summoning Materia like i.e. Bahamut Zero, Hades (FFVII version which inflicts nearly all status ailments) or Knights of the Round, poweful magic materia like Ultima or Contain (which allows access to very powerful elemental spells that inflict additionally a status ailment), support materia like Quadra-magic, HP/MP-Absorb or Magic Counter (a possibly devastating thing for Sora as any attack he successfully lands could be countered with the linked Magic OR Summon Materia) or Command Materia like 4xCut or Enemy Skill.
A sufficiently filled Enemy Skill Materia alone could already be enough for Cloud to gain and maintain the upper hand as he could easily and with little cost reduce Sora's MP use by casting Magic Hammer on him, heal and buff himself with White Wind, Big Guard and Dragon Force as well as using deadly area-of-effect spells like Beta, Aqualung, Trine and Shadow Flare.

And for the record, the true FF-versions of Cid Highwind, Yuffie and Aerith would be capable of doing the very same as there can be multiple versions of the same Materia.
well the thing about some of the stuff you said is kinda right and not right. and the reason why is because it was said does ff characters was indeed not real. but weaker? am going have too say no. because the sole reason it was not said. if tetsuya said they were not real,am sure he would of said how inferior sora was too them. and the hp that's game mechanics. if were going on that then ok i understand you saying that. but if not sora would tank any other attacks. unless its a blade too the face. if it was that sora would be blocking and avoiding. and the fight with sora and sep, there is a way too know it was real. and the reason why is KH RE:chain sora and the guys lost there memory,but not only them but ones that were not in castle oblivion ( they were in a castle this game). and sep was not going easy on sora. it was said that sep was not going be beating by sora or be harmed by him because only cloud can do that. because he is the darkness in his heart in the kh universe. the ifrit...well got nothing too say about that. but back too the last thing i said about the ff characters. yes there not real. but it was not said they were weaker then there real self's. so anyway sora have seen these people before. he will know how too handle and beat them. he even fought all 4 of them in kh2 in the underworld. but the materia the limits and the summoning. limits will take awhile and if its the real cloud sora can use his on limits against cloud, summoning cloud will be opening for a attack, and sora has been weakened and debuff before so he will know how too handle him self. but even so why did he not use these things in the movie? or even dissidia?(well the newer one he did) but i think its because hironobu is sticking too not only clouds roll but a whole lot of ff characters role when it comes too fighting. cloud is more of a warrior of course then a caster, yuffi assassin,aerith she would be a caster, cid...well mechanic. but idk what that well help. but the way he fights idk i guess....assassin i guess? sora we can use all his stuff because he trained with magic and was showing casting it in clips. those skill they have are more or so just too help you in the game too get by hard bosses or tough foes. but i can some what understand some of this stuff you say. but this is what i believe. but the whole sep thing id understand why he will hold back when he is going too lose. especially in advt. and am saying that too myself and asking you why would he?
 

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