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Would anything have really changed if they permanently axed off Maleficent back in KH1?



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Soldier

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Hello,

Alright, this is something I've been thinking about for a while now. We all remember how important she was in the beginning of KH 1 as the red herring of the story. How the fight against her hinted that in enchanted dominion, Prince Philip didn't manage to slay her, so Sora and co. have to finish the job. I always liked that aspect of KH, filling the role of an established disney hero and fighting the good fight. Trouncing her league of villains was satisfying to cripple as the second half of the game rolled around. But now? she's just a throwaway villain, someone who barely has any control over the story and when she does, it's being tricked by KH original villains into searching for things like princesses and boxes. Mind you, this is a character that controls green fire and can move around in the form of a GALAXY and she gets snuffed for lead villain continuously. And remember, in KH 3D she couldn't even pull off a hostage situation, a crime that (to my knowledge) requires very little forethought/control as long as you've got your hostage and know your demands. Which leads me to the question of would anything have changed if she was removed from the story? Sure it would change KH 2 and coded drastically as her presence is more important there than anywhere else these days, but games where she takes a back seat probably wouldn't change.
 

Zettaflare

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Setting aside Chi and whatever happens in phase 2 yeah you could of kept her dead and everything from KH2 to KH3 could of played out the same. Most of the things she did in Coded and KH2 could of been accomplished with Pete all by himself.
 
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Rodin

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Mostly just her actions in 2. You could introduce a new villian to take her place. Like the Evil Queen, Lady Tremaine or Mortimer Mouse.
 
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Nomura obviously loves Maleficent alot. She's been consistent throughout the series and I think there's big plans for her in phase 2. That being said, I don't think Nomura really knew what to do with the character most of the time. For a fact Kingdom Hearts III would have been 100% the same game without Maleficent. I really hope she's treated better moving forward. I just hope they don't take inspiration from the live action movie and turn her into a hero.
 

Vulpes XIII

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The only thing I can think of is that apparently for the union leaders to travel to Sora’s time they needed someone in the future who remembers them which I believe is meant to be Maleficient.However Nomura could of probably chosen another character instead and it would of probably made no difference.
 

Soldier

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Nomura obviously loves Maleficent alot. She's been consistent throughout the series and I think there's big plans for her in phase 2. That being said, I don't think Nomura really knew what to do with the character most of the time. For a fact Kingdom Hearts III would have been 100% the same game without Maleficent. I really hope she's treated better moving forward. I just hope they don't take inspiration from the live action movie and turn her into a hero.
That's quite the oxymoron there Mr. Knight, if he loves her so much why give her the shaft most of the time. He hyped her up as being very important in 3 with her searching for the black box, only for that to go nowhere.
 

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The only thing I can think of is that apparently for the union leaders to travel to Sora’s time they needed someone in the future who remembers them which I believe is meant to be Maleficient.However Nomura could of probably chosen another character instead and it would of probably made no didifference.
The Union leaders needed that specific requirement? Did Nomura state that in a interview or something?
 

Chie

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Yes, one thing would change.

There would no longer be an extremely funny character in the games. And that's terrible.
 
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That's quite the oxymoron there Mr. Knight, if he loves her so much why give her the shaft most of the time. He hyped her up as being very important in 3 with her searching for the black box, only for that to go nowhere.
That's true, what I probably should have said is I think Nomura likes her enough to keep bringing her back, but not enough to do anything important with her.
 

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I've thought this before too. She was fantastic in KH1, but after that, even in 2, she just kind of seemed to be a bad guy that was there. After her defeat in 1 there really just wasn't anything menacing about her anymore.
 

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The Union leaders needed that specific requirement? Did Nomura state that in a interview or something?
Honestly I’m not sure if Nomura stated this in a interview or not but back in one of the Union cross updates when Darkness was talking to Maleficent and sending her back to the future she asked something along the lines of why do you care about me getting back to the future or not and then Darkness said that she needs her to act as “a waypoint” and then proceeds to say

” In order to travel through time you need a medium to form a body and someone with memories of you. No one from this world has those in the future, but if we send you back that all changes, someone from this time could find their way to you.”

She then meets Lauriam in that cutscene which means she has memories of him at least. I‘m not sure if Nomura confirmed this or not but it does seem heavily implied that this is what she is being used for in Union X.
 

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There is seemingly some sort of game plan in mind for her but the series is taking it's sweet ass time getting to it. And now that a year's past I wonder what if anything she's done in that time.
 

Chie

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I think everyone is missing the point of Maleficent.

Maleficent's entire character is being a Disney villain punching above her weight class. She's a character from a very specific story (world) (film) who through sheer determination to Be The Evilest Wickedest Villain pulled herself into the Kingdom Hearts narrative proper. And while she might have been able to be the villain in the context of a story and setting that was built for her, she is woefully unequipped to stand her ground against the people of a world which is vastly more convoluted and just plain Anime than the fairy tale she comes from. She doesn't understand sci-fi tropes like computer simulations, or shonen/JRPG tropes like the introduction of a new group of bosses. Her dialogue is more dramatic and self-serious than the other characters, yet her ambitions are the least philosophically driven of any villain - she just wants to rule the universe, and at one point outright states that the stuff Xehanort told her about how to conquer the worlds was "too complex".

As such, in each game she tries her best to take the role of the main villain, because that's what she thinks she should be. And every time she gets bodied by the actual antagonists. And every time she gets right back up to do it again, because she's 100% convinced of her superiority. To me this makes her extremely endearing, and I would not hesitate to say she is the best Disney character in the series.

If she was a serious villain who had an effect on the story, she would still be a flat character like every single other Disney character, but there'd be no real irony or humor about this fact. She'd be more of a plot point, but a lot less of a character. Just like Yen Sid.

I hesitate to speak about it in the terms of author intent since I don't really know what the writers are actually thinking, but based on my analysis of the work, I'd say the writers know exactly what to do with Maleficent, and they have been doing it. She's a jobber. A writer liking a character is more complex than just "do they give them relevance/depth/dignity/etc.". Sometimes a character being a loser or being messed with is exactly what the writer likes about them.

All that said...

Mostly just her actions in 2. You could introduce a new villian to take her place. Like the Evil Queen, Lady Tremaine or Mortimer Mouse.

Thank you so much for reminding me that Mortimer Mouse exists, I would pay serious money to see KH try to fit him in somewhere.
 

Face My Fears

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I don't think anything would have changed storywise since she didn't really do much.

HOWEVER, the vibe of the games would change. The same way there are Disney "constants" in Mickey, Donald, and Goofy, I think it's nice to have a Disney constant outside of the primary Disney characters. Especially a character from a different world (film). Even though she doesn't do much, I think at this point it wouldn't feel very much like KH if she was absent (for good).

If they ever do write her out for good, I hope that Nomura will give her a good exit storyline. Also, if she is removed for good, I think another Disney villain should take her place as leaving their world to chase after Sora. The prime candidate for that would be Hades, especially because Nomura loves him.
 

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No, nothing would really change. She only offers a little color to the wallpaper post-KH1. I wish they'd let her get her hands on the Book of Prophecies or Datascape, and use that as a power-up to make her a true adversary again. But the writers don't seem to have the interest to give her more and it would take a lot of heavy-lifting to make the audience respect the character within this story again anyway. I guess her existence in the background is better than nothing. I did like most of the scenes she had in KH3 even if didn't amount to anything.

I just wonder if she will have any impact on the second phase at all? I don't expect she'll have any part of the adventure in Quadratum.
 

Face My Fears

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No, nothing would really change. She only offers a little color to the wallpaper post-KH1. I wish they'd let her get her hands on the Book of Prophecies or Datascape, and use that as a power-up to make her a true adversary again. But the writers don't seem to have the interest to give her more and it would take a lot of heavy-lifting to make the audience respect the character within this story again anyway. I guess her existence in the background is better than nothing. I did like most of the scenes she had in KH3 even if didn't amount to anything.

I just wonder if she will have any impact on the second phase at all? I don't expect she'll have any part of the adventure in Quadratum.
Well I thought the Datascape would have had something to do with the Foretellers and where they've been hiding. With Quadratum's introduction, I feel like they were all hiding there. Which makes me question what use the Datascape will have in the future? Nomura's seemingly moved on from using a Data world to using "fictional" worlds. The only thing I can think of is the Datascape somehow being the tool used to create the fictional worlds - like a sort of "nobody" to a world itself. Basically I mean the Datascape is the "real" version of the world, then a "fictional" one gets created in the Quadratum realm. That would at least add some importance to the now forgotten Datascape.
 

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Yes, one thing would change.

There would no longer be an extremely funny character in the games. And that's terrible.
Exactly, I love her, she's unintentionally hilarious. I think she's similar to Jessie from Pokemon in a way.

Also, I personally think Nomura has a big plan for Maleficent, maybe a big moment, but he hasn't been able to fit it into any Kingdom Hearts yet, so he keeps building her up more and more. And also, I think it's interesting at least that she's still going to be involved with the Black Box, the Foretellers etc.
 

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It bugs me the series has gone so far as undermine her work in turning Riku to the darkside, seemingly giving Ansem 100% credit for it. The writing is going out of it's way to make her less of a threat than she was.

If she was a serious villain who had an effect on the story, she would still be a flat character like every single other Disney character, but there'd be no real irony or humor about this fact. She'd be more of a plot point, but a lot less of a character. Just like Yen Sid.
Calling literally every Disney character "flat", that's a bit of a reach, especially with the last decade or so of Disney films. Most have better writing than this convoluted tangle of a franchise.
 
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KudoTsurugi

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Calling literally every Disney character "flat", that's a bit of a reach, especially with the last decade or so of Disney films. Most have better writing than this convoluted tangle of a franchise.
I don’t think Chie means ‘flat’ in that sense. More in the sense like how Goku is a flat character, uncompromising in his viewpoint and unlikely to change his mind. Doesn’t mean they can’t grow or learn, but it’d be a lot more subtle than the more overt positive character arc most characters have.
 
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