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Will Lea save Isa?



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Gaebora

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I think it's a hope we all have. Constantly they bickered like "youve changed", "no youve changed". But I was reading the Secret Reports and on Day 51 Saix says something surprisingly sweet.
"The Replica Program continues apace, but something has gone wrong at Castle Oblivion. The Dusks returned with word that none of those we dispatched survived--but the news came in fragments. I still know too little to extract the truth."
wait for it...
"I doubt Axel would be among those lost, but I must plan for the worst." AWWWWW

(and if theres another thread like this, i just wanted to share this facet)
 
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Ballad of Caius

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Yeeeah, about that... it sounded like he didn't have his trump card anymore, not that he lost his friend there. Or maybe it was his own way to express it. Other than that, I'm 50/50 torn with expecting what will happen with Saix. Does Lea want to save him? I believe so. Will it happen? I don't know. From what I'm thinking, it's possible that every norted individual might share the same fate Ventus had after Xehanort gets defeated: a big part of their hearts is going to be missing, and they'll need time to heal.
 

Sephiroth0812

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I think it's a hope we all have.

I'd say this prospect can be challenged as I've read many opinions from fans that do say Saix/Isa can rot in hell and that he's no better than Xehanort, Vanitas or Xigbar for how he treated most of the heroes in both KH 2 and Days.

Some even go as far as claim he doesn't deserve to be saved, especially if he wasn't just possessed by Xehanort but was a willing accomplice in Xehanort's wild crackpot plan.

Fact is however that Saix's/Isa's true disposition cannot be ascertained at the moment and it is a thing for KH III to clear up.

A single entry in a secret report sounding more amicable at first glance also doesn't say anything if almost everything in his actual behaviour points towards a different direction.
Actions also say more than mere words.

For me personally, it depends on one hand really on how much of all the crap was Xehanort-influenced and how much he actually did on his own volition, but on the other even more if he's capable of acknowledging he did shitty things and his willingness to atone and/or make amends.

For the latter to truly have meaning though of course he would need to be "saved" and given a second chance.

Fans in general tend to be picky about it however and the KH series already has a sort of reputation for heinous actions being too easily forgiven and "bad guys" not facing enough consequences for the shit they have pulled.
There are even those out there who still hate DiZ/Ansem the Wise despite him having been shown to try and make amends as best as he's capable of.
 

AdrianXXII

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Yeah, the claim that "it's a hope we all have" might be a bit inaccurate. A lot of us still resent Saix for his treatment of the Clocktower and Destiny trios.

That said it does seem that un-norting characters, is going to be a thing. Therefore i do not see a reason why they wouldn't try and save Isa and the other possessed former org members, it would give us an opportunity to get to know them better.
I'm generally not a fan of killing characters off, seeing it removes any story telling potential with them, but i do see how sometimes it help the story have more weight.

Right now we dont know how much of Isa is in Saix. We know he's changed since the BBS days, but we dont know if he's like Xigbar a willing accomplish with his own identity mostly intact or not.
Either way I dont think him and Lea can really ever go back to being best friends.

In the end we dont know how people can be saved from being norted and if everyone can be, so it's all a bit up in the air.
 

cakito123

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Few days ago Nomura sayed that friendship and relationships in gwneral changes and disappear naturally... And I think that Axel and Saix's relationship is basically dead by now.
 

AdrianXXII

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Few days ago Nomura sayed that friendship and relationships in gwneral changes and disappear naturally... And I think that Axel and Saix's relationship is basically dead by now.

Exactly these two could be used to show case that friends drift apart sometimes. Axel will still probably try and save his old friend, but after that it's very possible that they wont reconnect.

In general it'll be interesting to see the dynamic between them now that Axel knows Saix is part Xehanort. He'll probably question, how much they were planning together in the org was really his old friend and how much was it Xehanort manipulating him.
 

Graceful Schemer

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Exactly these two could be used to show case that friends drift apart sometimes. Axel will still probably try and save his old friend, but after that it's very possible that they wont reconnect.

In general it'll be interesting to see the dynamic between them now that Axel knows Saix is part Xehanort. He'll probably question, how much they were planning together in the org was really his old friend and how much was it Xehanort manipulating him.

Wasn't there a plan they planned since BBS?
 

AdrianXXII

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Wasn't there a plan they planned since BBS?
There was, but we never really learned what it was or if they potentially already reached it.

Days did imply they were still working together towards a goal. But we can't be sure, if it was the same plan. Also with the Nort revelation of Saix, we can't be sure if it still was their plan or if Xehanort was just using that origibal plan to keep Axel under control amd doing his dirty work.
Axel is probably currently wondering the same thing.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Few days ago Nomura sayed that friendship and relationships in gwneral changes and disappear naturally... And I think that Axel and Saix's relationship is basically dead by now.

Yeah. With Nomura's statement, I think it's possible to deduce that some Norts will fade away from existence.
 

Alpha Baymax

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Few days ago Nomura sayed that friendship and relationships in gwneral changes and disappear naturally... And I think that Axel and Saix's relationship is basically dead by now.

I'm not so sure about that. Lea was shocked to see Isa as a Seeker of Darkness. Their conflicts as Nobodies was the notion of having hearts and holding feelings about others. Now that Axel is human again, he doesn't have to suffer that dilemma.

If Lea and Isa truly parted ways, Lea wouldn't have cared if Isa was a Seeker. Also, Isa as a somebody clearly was friends with Lea back in the day for a reason. That definitely needs to be explored upon...
 

Ballad of Caius

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I'm not so sure about that. Lea was shocked to see Isa as a Seeker of Darkness. Their conflicts as Nobodies was the notion of having hearts and holding feelings about others. Now that Axel is human again, he doesn't have to suffer that dilemma.

If Lea and Isa truly parted ways, Lea wouldn't have cared if Isa was a Seeker. Also, Isa as a somebody clearly was friends with Lea back in the day for a reason. That definitely needs to be explored upon...

Also, with the Ultimania confirming that the Seekers are Nobodies again, and how Braig just picked-up Isa from the floor during the coded movie secret ending, I think it sorta confirms that Isa was made a Seeker with no consent. Something tells me that he was forced to be a Nort, and it's possible that Saix has always been under Xehanort's influence, or the mix between hearts created a new persona different to Isa's.
 

Alpha Baymax

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Also, with the Ultimania confirming that the Seekers are Nobodies again, and how Braig just picked-up Isa from the floor during the coded movie secret ending, I think it sorta confirms that Isa was made a Seeker with no consent. Something tells me that he was forced to be a Nort, and it's possible that Saix has always been under Xehanort's influence, or the mix between hearts created a new persona different to Isa's.

The Organization existed for quite a while before Roxas came into the fold. Something must have happened during then for Xehanort to insert his influence upon Isa. I was always curious as to why Saix has the X branded on his face?
 

Oracle Spockanort

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There are complicated feelings surrounding Lea and Isa. I think a lot of their friendship was steeped in bitterness following the events that led to them becoming Nobodies, but both of them remember their friendship and how it was in the past. To Saix, he felt as though that friendship meant that Axel was obligated to listen to him and follow his orders.

To Axel, it seemed as though he was just along for the ride. He remembered their past, knew they were friends, so he was supposed to work with Saix.

When Roxas and Xion come into the picture, it definitely opened Axel's eyes that there was something intrinsically missing in his friendship with Saix. To Saix, it became a mix of feeling as though something he felt he was obligated to was taken away and a reminder of what was lost.

It was why I think Saix took so many opportunities to belittle Roxas and Xion and the friendship RAX have with each other. Roxas had no sense of who he used to be, and yet he gained Axel's easy friendship. Xion was just a puppet and yet Axel grew to care about her like a sister. They were nothing to him, but Axel seemed to care about them and that struck a cord in Saix.

Saix needed to return things to status quo so his plans with Axel wouldn't be jeopardized, and clearly he felt jealousy over seeing what he did not have.

The one thing we aren't clear on is when Saix began to fall in line with Xehanort, especially because he was already exhibiting signs of being a Xehanort long before the events of Days. I wouldn't be surprised if Saix didn't start to really fall in line with Xehanort until everything with RAX began, but we can't say anything for certain. What is worse is that we don't really know what Axel and Saix's plans to topple the Organization involved.

Considering everything we know about Saix and Axel, I have always believed that their friendship is meant to represent a broken bond and it is one that likely won't be repaired.

Theirs is a friendship that was once strong becomes abusive and harmful when it is tainted with jealousy and apathy on both sides (Saix being the jealous one and Axel the apathetic one).

When Lea sees Saix as one of the 13 in DDD, I think it isn't him being upset about his friend but rather feeling regret over what has happened. It is in part his actions that caused Isa to suffer the most. Lea was the one who insisted on sneaking into the castle, but it is Isa who gets claimed as a darkness and Isa who had to suffer watching Axel drift away and become friends with some boy with no memories and a puppet.

Now, if Lea saves Isa...I don't think it'll be what we expect. I completely believe Isa will not make it to the end of KH3 alive, but I don't think he will die a villain.
 

TruestSyn

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There are complicated feelings surrounding Lea and Isa. I think a lot of their friendship was steeped in bitterness following the events that led to them becoming Nobodies, but both of them remember their friendship and how it was in the past. To Saix, he felt as though that friendship meant that Axel was obligated to listen to him and follow his orders.

To Axel, it seemed as though he was just along for the ride. He remembered their past, knew they were friends, so he was supposed to work with Saix.

When Roxas and Xion come into the picture, it definitely opened Axel's eyes that there was something intrinsically missing in his friendship with Saix. To Saix, it became a mix of feeling as though something he felt he was obligated to was taken away and a reminder of what was lost.

It was why I think Saix took so many opportunities to belittle Roxas and Xion and the friendship RAX have with each other. Roxas had no sense of who he used to be, and yet he gained Axel's easy friendship. Xion was just a puppet and yet Axel grew to care about her like a sister. They were nothing to him, but Axel seemed to care about them and that struck a cord in Saix.

Saix needed to return things to status quo so his plans with Axel wouldn't be jeopardized, and clearly he felt jealousy over seeing what he did not have.

The one thing we aren't clear on is when Saix began to fall in line with Xehanort, especially because he was already exhibiting signs of being a Xehanort long before the events of Days. I wouldn't be surprised if Saix didn't start to really fall in line with Xehanort until everything with RAX began, but we can't say anything for certain. What is worse is that we don't really know what Axel and Saix's plans to topple the Organization involved.

Considering everything we know about Saix and Axel, I have always believed that their friendship is meant to represent a broken bond and it is one that likely won't be repaired.

Theirs is a friendship that was once strong becomes abusive and harmful when it is tainted with jealousy and apathy on both sides (Saix being the jealous one and Axel the apathetic one).

When Lea sees Saix as one of the 13 in DDD, I think it isn't him being upset about his friend but rather feeling regret over what has happened. It is in part his actions that caused Isa to suffer the most. Lea was the one who insisted on sneaking into the castle, but it is Isa who gets claimed as a darkness and Isa who had to suffer watching Axel drift away and become friends with some boy with no memories and a puppet.

Now, if Lea saves Isa...I don't think it'll be what we expect. I completely believe Isa will not make it to the end of KH3 alive, but I don't think he will die a villain.

You've got a really thorough examination of their friendship here, but there's still an unknown factor in it all: How strong their friendship was before they turned. It's all well and good to assess what we know, but we don't know exactly how good of friends they were. They seemed pretty close, which I think was represented by the sun and moon aspect they had with each other. Axel being the blazing bright one and Saix being the quiet reserved one. I'd like to look into how different cultures interpreted the relationship that the sun and moon have and see if any of those fit what we currently know about them.

I bring all this up because I do feel really bad for Isa, watching him look at Lea as he shows off and the fact that there still seems to be something inside of him that misses their old friendship, I feel like it had to be Xehanort manipulating the fact that they used to be friends that caused him to loured that over Axel to get him to do what he wanted for Org XIII. Maybe Xehanort threatened Isa to do harm to Axel if he didn't comply?
 
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