Why was Marluxia the lord of the castle?



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jakesaysknee

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It doesn't make much sense to me from a story standpoint. I find it pretty hard to believe that Xemnas had no idea that Marluxia was going to turn out to be a traitor. Why would he knowingly leave his second facility in the hands of a traitor? Even if he WASN'T going to betray the organization, there were still plenty of other people more deserving of the job. Marluxia was #11, one of the newest members of the organization. Why wouldn't he leave it with Vexen, #4 and someone he actually knew when they were both somebodies?
 

DarkosOverlord

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First of all, numbers really only mean when people joined, they have no business in defining power or relevance (Vexen believes otherwise, though)
Xaldin was number 3, and he wasn't let in on a lot of secrets while Saix, num,ber 7, was, for example.

Speaking of Saix, the dialogues in Days seems to point out Xemnas was fully aware of Marluxia's betrayal, he just didn't care.
Perhaps he always knew he didn't pose a threat and/or Sora would've strike him down. Also, he was probably aware of Saix sending his own spy Axel too (and Axel was definitely the one who crushed the betrayal the most), so there's that.

About the people more deserving... I don't know about that. They either were too important to leave (Xigbar, Saix) or not competent enough (Demyx).
Larxene, not in a million years. Zexion, maybe too young. Vexen definitely too short-sighted for a lot of things, he let Marluxia play him like a complete fool. Lexaeus would make the most sense, perhaps he was too much of a soldier and less of a leader, maybe.
All of this obviously ignoring that by a videogame standard Marluxia was the only character fit to be a final boss.
 

ALittleNerd

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He may have sent him there on purpose to just get rid of Marluxia, Axel knew about the betrayal and was sent there to "seek out the traitors". Basically kill them. So he probably didn't want him to come back.
 

Sephiroth0812

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That Xemnas knew of Marluxia's traitorous (and power-hungry) tendencies is exactly why he made him Lord of Castle Oblivion, to lull him into a fake sense of security and then have Axel eliminate him and Larxene.

Xemnas even explains it in one scene in Days that the only issue coming out from Castle Oblivion that was unexpected to him was Vexen being eliminated, that was not part of the plan.
Saix gives Axel Xemnas' orders to eliminate the traitors, yet Saix himself also wants some more people gone, specifically Zexion.
 

ALittleNerd

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That Xemnas knew of Marluxia's traitorous (and power-hungry) tendencies is exactly why he made him Lord of Castle Oblivion, to lull him into a fake sense of security and then have Axel eliminate him and Larxene.

Xemnas even explains it in one scene in Days that the only issue coming out from Castle Oblivion that was unexpected to him was Vexen being eliminated, that was not part of the plan.
Saix gives Axel Xemnas' orders to eliminate the traitors, yet Saix himself also wants some more people gone, specifically Zexion.
Why'd Axel kill Vexen again?
 

BlackOsprey

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Why'd Axel kill Vexen again?
Axel and Saix had this little side plot to take over the Organization through political backstabbing rather than open rebellion. Axel killed off the traitors plus anyone who might've been in the way of Saix's climb to power. Apparently this included Vexen and Zexion.

... Plus he needed to do something to gain Larxene and Marluxia's trust. How convenient for him.
 

DarkosOverlord

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Axel and Saix had this little side plot to take over the Organization through political backstabbing rather than open rebellion. Axel killed off the traitors plus anyone who might've been in the way of Saix's climb to power. Apparently this included Vexen and Zexion.

... Plus he needed to do something to gain Larxene and Marluxia's trust. How convenient for him.
It's almost like the plot shapes around his actions!
(sorry, had to be that guy)

The only thing related to taking Vexen out that I can think of (aside from some new revelation unknown to us) is the halt of the Replica Program (given how Vexen didn't seem as enlightened as Zexion about the Chambers). If that was the reason, then Saix's hatred towards Xion and all the question he asked Xemnas have a whole new meaning.
 

Audo

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He took Vexen out because Vexen was acting against the Organization's plans to control Sora, and so Marluxia ordered him to?

Vexen not only was telling Sora about Marluxia's plan to control him, how Nami's memory were fake, but he was also in the process of telling Sora about Roxas. Like these are all thing that went against the Organization's larger plans, even if Vexen did it to try and oppose Marluxia's hijacking of said plans for his own gain.
 

Vaddix

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It's almost like the plot shapes around his actions!
(sorry, had to be that guy)

The only thing related to taking Vexen out that I can think of (aside from some new revelation unknown to us) is the halt of the Replica Program (given how Vexen didn't seem as enlightened as Zexion about the Chambers). If that was the reason, then Saix's hatred towards Xion and all the question he asked Xemnas have a whole new meaning.
From what I understood, Vexen was collateral damage, in a sense. Axel didn't really want him gone, if he could help it (see Days Secret Report below), but had to eliminate him in order to serve the two, maybe even three purposes, for two (or three) different parties:
1) Keeping up appearances for Marluxia and Larxene, pretending to be part of their rebellion
2) Preventing Vexen from revealing the existence of Roxas to Sora, presumably for the Organization as a whole (I never fully understood the significance of this)
and maybe 3) to disrupt the Replica Program for his and Saix's own treasonous plans.

358/2 Days, Secret Report, Day 28, for reference:
Spoiler Spoiler Show
 

DarkosOverlord

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He took Vexen out because Vexen was acting against the Organization's plans to control Sora, and so Marluxia ordered him to?

Vexen not only was telling Sora about Marluxia's plan to control him, how Nami's memory were fake, but he was also in the process of telling Sora about Roxas. Like these are all thing that went against the Organization's larger plans, even if Vexen did it to try and oppose Marluxia's hijacking of said plans for his own gain.
That's the obvious part CoM lets you see.
Then, as stated in Days, Vexen was one of the guys Saix wanted gone for some reason, and I don't think it was for a treason he yet had to even commit.
 

Audo

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That's the obvious part CoM lets you see.
Then, as stated in Days, Vexen was one of the guys Saix wanted gone for some reason, and I don't think it was for a treason he yet had to even commit.
"I cleared the way to the top for you"-Axel

It basically seems to me that the first six members of the Organization (the Apprentices, as it were) were considered higher rank than the others. By eliminating Vexen and Zexion, that left room for Saix to enter the "inner circle" so to speak. This seems to primarily be the reason why Zexion was struck down. Vexen, as pointed out by Vaddix, was similar to collateral damage. I don't think Saix asked for Vexen to be struck down exactly (when Axel returns from CO, he only mentions to Saix that he took out Zexion and "that's how you wanted it, right?" But later in the game lists Vexen as an obstacle as well).
 

Vaddix

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"I cleared the way to the top for you"-Axel

It basically seems to me that the first six members of the Organization (the Apprentices, as it were) were considered higher rank than the others. By eliminating Vexen and Zexion, that left room for Saix to enter the "inner circle" so to speak. This seems to primarily be the reason why Zexion was struck down. Vexen, as pointed out by Vaddix, was similar to collateral damage. I don't think Saix asked for Vexen to be struck down exactly (when Axel returns from CO, he only mentions to Saix that he took out Zexion and "that's how you wanted it, right?" But later in the game lists Vexen as an obstacle as well).
I always have trouble digging this up, so pardon my lack of sources here, but there is definitely an interview (a rather obscure one it seems) that explains that Zexion was being considered by Xemnas for the second-in-command position, putting him in direct competition of sorts with Saix. That is to say, the first 6 members are not intrinsically higher-ranked, it just so happens that Zexion was actually a notably upstanding member, well-favored by Xemnas in some behind-the-scenes manner. Will edit this post if I find the interview in question.
 

Audo

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I always have trouble digging this up, so pardon my lack of sources here, but there is definitely an interview (a rather obscure one it seems) that explains that Zexion was being considered by Xemnas for the second-in-command position, putting him in direct competition of sorts with Saix. That is to say, the first 6 members are not intrinsically higher-ranked, it just so happens that Zexion was actually a notably upstanding member, well-favored by Xemnas in some behind-the-scenes manner. Will edit this post if I find the interview in question.
I think you're thinking of the Character Report where Nomura says that, while it's never shown, he believes that Xemnas and Zexion had a sort of "teacher and student" close relationship.

As he shares something like a master-servant or teacher-student relationship with Xemnas, like Saix, he is a character with strong connections. While he was the superior in that regard, perhaps that was ultimately his downfall. It is likely that if Marluxia and Axel had not betrayed him in Castle Oblivion, he would have played a central role within the Organisation.--Nomura
 

Vaddix

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I think you're thinking of the Character Report where Nomura says that, while it's never shown, he believes that Xemnas and Zexion had a sort of "teacher and student" close relationship.
You know, I think you might be right, and I'm starting to think the folks over at GameFAQs and the KHInfoBlock that I found constantly repeating this factoid (that "Zexion was being groomed for second-in-command) might very well be a tenuous interpretation of that report and rather twisting of the words to produce a fact that wasn't actually there (or at the very least their conclusion could have been reached from a different translation).

That being said, despite the technicalities not being quite as I suggested, I would still hold by Zexion being in a notably prestigious position among his peers, making him in particular a target of Saix, not the six founding members as a whole. As mentioned above, Xaldin was not let in on very much, and Lexaeus was likely not either. Vexen may have known only what was directly concerning what Xemnas wanted from his project.

As a related aside, I am curious what other members thought of Xigbar. Did Saix suspect him but find him not worth targeting, or maybe even too high up to risk targeting? Was it common knowledge among the group that he was so close to Xehanort? (I really want to ask what Marluxia thought of everyone, but I know that dives into fanfic territory, matters we'll likely never really know outside shaky inference)
 

DarkosOverlord

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As a related aside, I am curious what other members thought of Xigbar. Did Saix suspect him but find him not worth targeting, or maybe even too high up to risk targeting? Was it common knowledge among the group that he was so close to Xehanort? (I really want to ask what Marluxia thought of everyone, but I know that dives into fanfic territory, matters we'll likely never really know outside shaky inference)
Let's see.

Generally, I get the feeling Xigbar is this wild card of the Organization, that one character archtype who acts all nonchalant and yet he's actually a big deal.
People must've noticed how Xigbar is almost never serious and yet is never punished and takes crap (or orders) from no one.
People like Demyx probably never thought too hard about it, tho.

In Days, Saix and Xigbar seems actually against one another (more like Saix finding him an obstacle). There's this one scene when the two and Xemnas argue, where Xigbar fires a snappy remark at Saix and you can see the rage in the Luna Diviner's eyes.
I think Xigbar being both numerically and practically Xemnas' number II doesn't quite helps climbing the ranks; and he has an attitude that Saix hates, too.
Also, given how Saix is he probably really hates that he knows Xigbar has some secrets but he can't discover them.

The only other thing I can think of is the dialogue with Zexion in KH II Final Mix: Xigbar plainly made some heavy references to BbS and the two chambers (and Xemnas apparent split-personality or something), so at least Zexion knows who Xigbar really is.
But, he doesn't talk back: perhaps he knows he can't or shouldn't.
 

Vaddix

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In Days, Saix and Xigbar seems actually against one another (more like Saix finding him an obstacle). There's this one scene when the two and Xemnas argue, where Xigbar fires a snappy remark at Saix and you can see the rage in the Luna Diviner's eyes.
I think Xigbar being both numerically and practically Xemnas' number II doesn't quite helps climbing the ranks; and he has an attitude that Saix hates, too.
Also, given how Saix is he probably really hates that he knows Xigbar has some secrets but he can't discover them.
This was one thing I definitely picked up on. While they both may be vessels in the end, it seemed clear that there was what could almost be described as a massive personality clash, mixed with, indeed, Saix maybe realizing that no matter how much he may seem to be Xemnas's right hand man, Xigbar always will be closer and know more than he ever could. And if you happen to believe that Saix followed the "became the mask" trope, it's entirely possible that later on, he was envious of Xigbar and competed with him for Xemnas's approval, without rebellious motives.

So I don't hijack the thread with my own curiosities though, going back to Marluxia's position over CO, and the intracacies behind that:
It seems that Xigbar, if he was the one to write the Day 71 Secret Report, was also very much aware, not only of why Marluxia and Larxene were really sent into that position (and thus their treasonous intentions), but also of Axel and Saix's little conspiracy.

Secret Report, Day 71:
Spoiler Spoiler Show
 
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