Why Kairi -can- have two Nobodies

[ForbiddenMemory]

wow, that actually did make some sense

 

[Angel]

She could've refused drafting;

I find that quite impossible. If she did, then why won't they accept her resignation?

She could've been used like Naminé as an experiments subject;

Far more plausible, but to what end?

Seeing the possibilities for a connection to Aqua as well, she might not have been "stabilized" despite being around for a while until whatever happened happened.

Elaborate. Her "existence" per se, was not stable, as in she kind of faded in and out? I'm unsure of what you mean.

And of course we do have Roxas being a possible catalyst to her joining the org, either because Xemnas didn't want her to join until Roxas did, or because Xion only cared to join when Roxas did.

But what's Xion's connection to Roxas? Unless....

Xion, having Kairi's memories, reckognized him as Sora's Nobody. She also contained a few of Aqua's allowing her to:

A. Reckognize Roxas as being the same as similar to Ven.

AND

B. Be unsure of her true self, if she did indeed remember both the lives of Kairi and Aqua.

 

[Smile]

I find that quite impossible. If she did, then why won't they accept her resignation?

For the same reason they didn't Roxas's? We're talking about an Organization that would go to the lengths of turning people into Nobodies to increase their strength.
Also, to what extent we don't know, but she does wield the Keyblade.
Why should they yes accept her resignation?

Far more plausible, but to what end?

I'd have to know the nature of Xion's "Specialness", which I don't.
If she has to do with either Aqua or Memories though (two things she seems to be related to) it makes more than enough sense.

Elaborate. Her "existence" per se, was not stable, as in she kind of faded in and out? I'm unsure of what you mean.

Well, it's on a much lower scale than what I had in mind for Xion, but think Sora-Roxas in KH2. Two beings struggling for dominance. It could explain why Xion looks like both Aqua and Kairi yet has no idea who she is, because the things that clearly set her apart from one or the other (the looks to tip the scales, and the Memories to give a clear answer) are missing.

Xion, having Kairi's memories

Which she didn't have. Wouldn't put a sort of a natural "attaction" beyond possible though; that IS how Kairi ended up on DI to begin with.

A. Reckognize Roxas as being the same as similar to Ven.

Again, instinctive, but if she's a mixture of Aqua and Kairi it would tie in with the Kairi-instincts to make her even more drawn to Roxas.

 

[AWOL]

Yeah, I am, I was chattin to a lot of people and swapped around Xion and Aqua... T Hey look the same! Go away...

 

[Muse]

^I don't see the resemblance between the two. I'm slow. D:

Anyways, going by this, it would be possible for Kairi to have two Nobodies, provided they're both Special. But (and this is so obvious), we won't know for certain until Days comes out.

 

[Smile]

Anyways, going by this, it would be possible for Kairi to have two Nobodies, provided they're both Special.

Which both confirmed Nobody and candidate have been confirmed to be.

But (and this is so obvious), we won't know for certain until Days comes out.

Duh~

 

[DaisyDuck]

We never really got to see Sora's own Heart leave his Body, only Kairi's Heart leave it. I think you're looking at it too, how to put it, literally.

Something you are also gulity of when it suits your purpose.

Two comments by him, one relating specifically to Xion, where he says that people that think they understood everything just from the trailers are dead wrong and then he asks what happened to Xion's Heart. Seeing how we already know what happened to Kairi's, that leaves Xion's identity to be someone else.
Nomura wouldn't really release a trailer where Xion admits to looking like Kairi if she really was Kairi's Nobody; it's too easy.

I've been saying from the very beginning that I didn't think she was connected to Kairi. This whole thread if I'm not mistaken, was for making sense of a hypothetical situation regaurding the possibilty of Kairi having two Nobodies. I'm fully aware Nomura has stated that she is someone we haven't seen before in any form, a comment that also excludes Aqua from the realm of possibility.

And - contradicts the truths of the matter.

A point which I addressed in my first post. You really do enjoy taking things out of context.

Ah, I missed your ability to respect other people's opinions.

Yeah, you're as pleasant as you were before, DD.
I'll remind this to you next time someone says Xion's height is a means to say she did not come from Aqua and have you rush in to my defense in the matter. Since you know, height doesn't matter either way, going by what you're saying

I'm just a big ole'ray of sunshine.

On the other hand it's the truth. I've actually seen entire threads that were nothing but declarations of malicious intent should Kairi ever be seen holding a keyblade again.

Since your version of "respect others' opinion" appears to consist of "agree with them" and excludes a senario in which the phrase "I think you are wrong and I do not find your arguements persuavise", this isn't likely to change in the near future. But tell you what, in respect to my favorite Gambler of Fate, I'll make an wager:

Should the events of 358/2 Days, reveal that Xion is, in fact, some form of Aqua, and I mean unquestionably, as in it's actually shown or stated by someone (someone in the game or Noruma kind of thing) I will admit you were right and postively LEAP to defend you the moment anyone dares question your wisdom again.

 

[Smile]

Something you are also gulity of when it suits your purpose.

Point it out then.

I'm fully aware Nomura has stated that she is someone we haven't seen before in any form, a comment that also excludes Aqua from the realm of possibility.

That statement I never ran across, actually. I know that was said about TAV's Master, but not Xion.

On the other hand it's the truth. I've actually seen entire threads that were nothing but declarations of malicious intent should Kairi ever be seen holding a keyblade again.

Seeing how not a lot of people appreciate the way Kairi is written and unlike you, aren't convinced she deserves a Keyblade, I see nothing wrong with the base concept of such threads.
They don't want the series to take a turn which in their opinion would make little to no sense and testify to bad writing and planning.

Since your version of "respect others' opinion" appears to consist of "agree with them" and excludes a senario in which the phrase "I think you are wrong and I do not find your arguements persuavise"

Lol. Oh you.

Should the events of 358/2 Days, reveal that Xion is, in fact, some form of Aqua, and I mean unquestionably, as in it's actually shown or stated by someone (someone in the game or Noruma kind of thing) I will admit you were right and postively LEAP to defend you the moment anyone dares question your wisdom again.

QFT. I'll hang on to this, though I'll allow myself to extend it to a general notion, since I really doubt they'd go into specifics about Aqua in Days. Would be kind of ruining a lot of things for both BBS and Coded.

 

[RuffPuff]

I know a lot of us think so already, I know a lot of us would disagree, but for those of us that simply don't know better, and because it's a repeating issue over the many Xion discussions, I felt this thread was needed.

Ever since Xion's face was revealed, the likely possibility of Kairi being her Somebody was raised.
This, in turn raised the rather nagging notion by many -

But what about Naminé?!

...well, what about Naminé?

This is where the people will roar and point accusingly at Naminé, claiming her to not be Kairi's Nobody, claiming her to be an even bigger plot hole than she already is with her odd, too-unique birth, accuse her of only be there to come in between AkuRoku and be a poor device to further base SoKai basing on RokuNami.
Well, Naminé being most of the plot in the series aside, that's kind of a silly notion, saying that Kairi can't have two Nobodies, let alone Special Nobodies.

You know, her Heart left her Body and Soul behind and all that jazz.

Xion possibly being Kairi's Nobody doesn't mean Naminé isn't. Me believing Naminé just might be an Unbirth aside -

It's been confirmed repeatedly in KH2 and by Nomura, you silly duckies, do your homework

1. Naminé has all but nothing holding her together. Go read the Secret Ansem Reports in case you missed it. Kairi's Body + Soul (henceforth referred to as B+S) remained as Kairi in KH1; Sora's B+S moved on to become Roxas. What did that leave Naminé with? What was that?
   Nothing? Yes, yes, I quite agree.
   Yet she's still running around as a Nobody, right? Right.
   
   That is to say, she both never took anything from Kairi so even if Xion did or needed anything from Kairi, it's not like Xion took something Naminé would've needed, or vice-versa. Also - Naminé is made from nothing; who's to say Xion isn't? Kairi's B+S remained in tact after her Heart moved into Sora's B + S. That does not rule out the possibility of a Special Nobody being born from all but nothing to create Xion.
   I'd call a Nobody that isn't created of anything and to top it was that was born from a PoH pretty damn special, wouldn't you?
   Since, you know, Xion if she's Kairi's Nobody was likely created on the night of the storm - from Kairi, as opposed to Naminé - which brings me to my next point.
2. Naminé was made from Sora. Nomura confirmed it several times, he likes to play on it. He stated clearly in the scenario mysteries interview that Naminé's existence was only made possible by Sora (a statement which possibly kills Xion being Kairi's Nobody altogether but let's leave that aside for now). Now I know what you're saying, AtW said that on the night of the storm, Kairi didn't create a Nobody...
   
   That we know of, lawl.
   Naminé was made from Sora. So what kept Kairi from creating Xion - a Special Nobody - on the night of the storm, only AtW never got in contact with Xion so he never reached any conclusion about her?
   And of course there's always the fun theory of how Naminé mind-wiped everyone about Xion and that's why she's never mentioned in KH2 if DiZ even knew the girl "existed".
   Lawl.

Conclusions -

Xion's a Special Nobody. That is to say, when dealing with her kind, you take up all the rules we know of and just about use them to wipe where the sun doesn't shine. AtW had good enough reasons to theorize initially that a Nobody was created on the Night of the Storm; maybe him changing his mind was because he met Xion somewhere and thus rectified his notion about Naminé? Who knows.
Seeing however how - like with Naminé - the Body and Soul aren't really required for a Special Nobody to be formed - a by product might've been created yet again.
Then we get to the notion that lawl, Namine came from Sora so the main and all but only valid argument to why they can't both be her Nobodies all but died out.
Two Nobodies for a single Heart leaving two Bodies.
Two Special Nobodies.

I don't believe that's the case.
I just don't think we should rule out the possibility of it quite just yet until the fat lady sings.
Or Utada, hopefully. *cough*

Why don't I ever know things like this? Lol.

 

[Key of Valor]

That statement I never ran across, actually. I know that was said about TAV's Master, but not Xion.

Well what Nomura said was that it wasn't a character from a previous installment. However that still leaves the possibility open that she is special Nobody of Kairi that hasn't been seen before.

Two comments by him, one relating specifically to Xion, where he says that people that think they understood everything just from the trailers are dead wrong and then he asks what happened to Xion's Heart. Seeing how we already know what happened to Kairi's, that leaves Xion's identity to be someone else.
Nomura wouldn't really release a trailer where Xion admits to looking like Kairi if she really was Kairi's Nobody; it's too easy.

These are some good points but they're all circumstancial. Nomura had said that he was afraid he revealed too much, but at the same time he made sure to keep the key parts hidden from the public.

 

[Smile]

Well what Nomura said was that it wasn't a character from a previous installment. However that still leaves the possibility open that she is special Nobody of Kairi that hasn't been seen before.

Previous installment = kills Xion being Kairi's Nobody, but not Aqua's, seeing how Aqua isn't from a previous installment. I'd still like to see the quote though since I never heard of anything like it.

These are some good points but they're all circumstancial. Nomura had said that he was afraid he revealed too much, but at the same time he made sure to keep the key parts hidden from the public.

No, Nomura said people were wondering if they haven't revealed too much. He knows he didn't reveal too much, therefore, showing Xion's face and thus revealing her striking resemblance to Kairi was a "spoiler" he could afford. A red herring if ever I saw one.

 

[Key of Valor]

Previous installment = kills Xion being Kairi's Nobody, but not Aqua's, seeing how Aqua isn't from a previous installment. I'd still like to see the quote though since I never heard of anything like it.

I'll edit this post with the quote later.

Xion wasn't in KH2, nor was she in KH:CoM, or KH1. Nomura didn't say she wasn't
connected to anyone from a previous installment, he simply said she isn't a character
from a previous installment. And yes, it has been brought before that Aqua qualifies
because she's not in a previous installment.

 

[Angel]

Previous installment = kills Xion being Kairi's Nobody, but not Aqua's, seeing how Aqua isn't from a previous installment. I'd still like to see the quote though since I never heard of anything like it.

It depends if he means chronologically, or release wise.

Not from a chronologically previous: Not Aqua's.

Not from a previous release: Not Kairi's.

No, Nomura said people were wondering if they haven't revealed too much. He knows he didn't reveal too much, therefore, showing Xion's face and thus revealing her striking resemblance to Kairi was a "spoiler" he could afford. A red herring if ever I saw one.

Again, if he gives Kairi a twin sister, he IS getting stabbed.

 

[DaisyDuck]

Point it out then.

*cougheverythingyou'veeverpostedcough*

Seeing how not a lot of people appreciate the way Kairi is written and unlike you, aren't convinced she deserves a Keyblade, I see nothing wrong with the base concept of such threads.
They don't want the series to take a turn which in their opinion would make little to no sense and testify to bad writing and planning.

Which is of course, only your opinion. I still don't see that there is anything wrong with her being a keyblade wielder and she certainly isn't the only character form KHII to suffer from bad writing.
I hardly see how her having keyblade could possibly ruin the game.

Seriously, grow up.

QFT. I'll hang on to this, though I'll allow myself to extend it to a general notion, since I really doubt they'd go into specifics about Aqua in Days. Would be kind of ruining a lot of things for both BBS and Coded.

Come on SA, I thought you were quicker than that. General notion, ain't gonna cut it. Not with with you and me. It has to be definitive and indisputable and you know it. The only modification to the original wager I'll accept is, should Days prove to be inconclusive, then we wait for BBS and Coded to provide the real answer.

 

[Smile]

I still don't see that there is anything wrong with her being a keyblade wielder and she certainly isn't the only character form KHII to suffer from bad writing.
I hardly see how her having keyblade could possibly ruin the game.

Which is, of course, your opinion. So I don't see why you're complaining about other people displaying an opinion that is opposite to your own.

Then again looking back at some of the PMs I kept from you, I shouldn't be wondering, now should I?

Seriously, grow up.

I'm not the one accusing you of single handedly turning the fandom against a character, now am I?

Come on SA, I thought you were quicker than that. General notion, ain't gonna cut it. Not with with you and me. It has to be definitive and indisputable and you know it.

Oh, I didn't say general notion in Days. I meant just that -

The only modification to the original wager I'll accept is, should Days prove to be inconclusive, then we wait for BBS and Coded to provide the real answer.

Only I'll add in KH3 as well, since I doubt we'll learn the whole truth before it. It'll be the thing that truly ties the past and the present together.

And I'll throw that 'grow up' right back at you since right now it seems you're arguing simply to be on the opposite side of me, despite us all but agreeing on things throughout this thread.

Though why do I expect you to read long walls of text I write after the last time you were on the forums is beyond me

 

[DaisyDuck]

Which is, of course, your opinion. So I don't see why you're complaining about other people displaying an opinion that is opposite to your own.

Then again looking back at some of the PMs I kept from you, I shouldn't be wondering, now should I?

Keeping my PM's? I'm so flattered. At least I don't have to explain it again.

I'm not the one accusing you of single handedly turning the fandom against a character, now am I?

I'm not the one trying to write a main character out of the series because "I've met girls like Kairi and I don't like them". That's just projecting onto a character that can't fight back.

Technically I said they substitute your pseudo-logic for actual thought. A video game isn't like a live action tv show where you have to give the producer's girlfriend a role to keep your job. Every character has purpose, even if you don't like them. IF they truly had no purpose they would not be in the game.

Oh, I didn't say general notion in Days. I meant just that -

I'll allow myself to extend it to a general notion

You were saying?

Only I'll add in KH3 as well, since I doubt we'll learn the whole truth before it. It'll be the thing that truly ties the past and the present together.

If you want to, though I think Days will answer it just fine.

And I'll throw that 'grow up' right back at you since right now it seems you're arguing simply to be on the opposite side of me, despite us all but agreeing on things throughout this thread.

This thread yes, since it safely stays away from the topic of the nature of the relationships between Sora, Riku, and Kairi. It tends to happen when those three and Namine aren't involved, or are you forgetting the thread about the Unbirths?

And as for why I oppose you on those topics "I think your opinion is wrong and I don't find your arguments persuasive."

You see, I've see too many anti-character essays. They are all the same, yours included. It doesn't matter who the target is: Kairi, Relena, Orihime, Anzu, Nasuti, Meryl, Amelia,Usagi, Ryoko, Ayeka, the list goes on an on. It's always the same. They try to pass themselves off as logical and reasonable, but they never are.

Though why do I expect you to read long walls of text I write after the last time you were on the forums is beyond me

This was hardly a wall of text. Though when you do employ the wall-o-text, perhaps if once in a while it wasn't the same Anti-Kairi/Pro-Namine/Xion=Aqua manifesto I've scene about five times before I'd be more inclined to read.

Seriously, it's gotten so that I can look at the main page and immediately pick out the threads you create before I even click on them, and after the first sentence I know exactly where it's going and how it will end.

 

[Smile]

I'm not the one trying to write a main character out of the series because "I've met girls like Kairi and I don't like them". That's just projecting onto a character that can't fight back.

Yeah, because I do that for every girl i don't like in every show I see or game i play. Or not.

Technically I said they substitute your pseudo-logic for actual thought. A video game isn't like a live action tv show where you have to give the producer's girlfriend a role to keep your job. Every character has purpose, even if you don't like them. IF they truly had no purpose they would not be in the game.

Oh, Kairi has a purpose.
It just doesn't have to be Kairi in order for that purpose to be filled.
And you know it's kind of ironic to have you tell me that on a thread where I'm actually arguing in favor of her possibly having more importance.
Fo shame.

This thread yes, since it safely stays away from the topic of the nature of the relationships between Sora, Riku, and Kairi. It tends to happen when those three and Namine aren't involved, or are you forgetting the thread about the Unbirths?

Yeah, where you attacked me for something I didn't say and then said that you wouldn't read it to see you were wrong because I wrote it. Har.

You see, I've see too many anti-character essays. They are all the same, yours included. It doesn't matter who the target is: Kairi, Relena, Orihime, Anzu, Nasuti, Meryl, Amelia,Usagi, Ryoko, Ayeka, the list goes on an on. It's always the same. They try to pass themselves off as logical and reasonable, but they never are.

or you just disagree with them. It doesn't make them any less logical or reasonable, just arguable.

This was hardly a wall of text. Though when you do employ the wall-o-text, perhaps if once in a while it wasn't the same Anti-Kairi/Pro-Namine/Xion=Aqua manifesto I've scene about five times before I'd be more inclined to read.

Put me on your ignore list, we'd both be happier though then I really have to wonder where you'd get your post count from if not arguing with me

Seriously, it's gotten so that I can look at the main page and immediately pick out the threads you create before I even click on them, and after the first sentence I know exactly where it's going and how it will end.

Never ever post on a topic I opened again then, if you find them so laughable.
Personally, I'm proud of myself for sticking to the same mind set for so long. It's reassuring to see I actually believe in what I'm supposedly 'preaching'. You don't find that often these days.

And on that notion, kindly refrain from putting me on the stake in this thread. Kind of off topic and all, ya know.
Feel free to hate me on my user page or something.

 

[Swxpert]

whoa who said anything about hating you? your opinions are very valid, kairi is not a nice character

 

[Smile]

I appreciate the support, but it's better placed on my user page.
I just want this to get back on track now.

 

[Kemaru]

This could be true. I really think so.