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Why is Roxas not recognized as Ventus?



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ParaNormaN

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Hello everyone, Kingdom Hearts is one of my favorite video game series and just recently started playing through 358/2 Days again. After playing Birth By Sleep, I started to wonder why all the characters who have met Ventus have never looked at Roxas and said "Hmm... I don't remember him falling into the darkness." Especially characters like Xemnas and Xigbar. Xemnas and Xigbar were heavily involved with Ventus when they were still people (somebodies?), especially Xemnas when he was Xehanort. He fractured Ventus' heart and tried to destroy him to forge the X-Blade. Why didn't Xemnas recognize the appearance of Roxas? Was it the amnesia he had after taking over Terra? Wouldn't he had regained his memory as a Nobody? Xigbar eventually saw Xion as Ventus and called it a "blast from the past", yet he doesn't say a single thing about Roxas looking and sounding exactly like Ventus. Is it possible that all of these Nobodies saw Roxas as Sora instead of Ventus? Just like how Roxas eventually saw Xion as Sora? Even Axel and Saix don't seem to notice it and they both met Ven.
 

hemmoheikkinen

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Hello everyone, Kingdom Hearts is one of my favorite video game series and just recently started playing through 358/2 Days again. After playing Birth By Sleep, I started to wonder why all the characters who have met Ventus have never looked at Roxas and said "Hmm... I don't remember him falling into the darkness." Especially characters like Xemnas and Xigbar. Xemnas and Xigbar were heavily involved with Ventus when they were still people (somebodies?), especially Xemnas when he was Xehanort. He fractured Ventus' heart and tried to destroy him to forge the X-Blade. Why didn't Xemnas recognize the appearance of Roxas? Was it the amnesia he had after taking over Terra? Wouldn't he had regained his memory as a Nobody? Xigbar eventually saw Xion as Ventus and called it a "blast from the past", yet he doesn't say a single thing about Roxas looking and sounding exactly like Ventus. Is it possible that all of these Nobodies saw Roxas as Sora instead of Ventus? Just like how Roxas eventually saw Xion as Sora? Even Axel and Saix don't seem to notice it and they both met Ven.

Hmm. I do think Xemans recognized Roxas striking appearance. In one of the scenes in Days he says these lines to the sleeping Roxas: "So, sleep has taken you yet again". I think this is sign that Xemans remembers Ventus, and the Superior calling back the memory, where Ventus went into a coma when he got to the Land of Departure. Even if we can see these glimpses of Terra(or Xehanort) in Xemnas, it is mystery how much he remembers. His memory is a mess between Xehanort, Aprentice Xehanort, Terra, and possible Eraqus. We don`t really know how many memories from these different persons he really has. He went to the Chamber of Repose to regain his memories, and most of the Org stuff comes from there. The black coat comes from Master Xehanort, and the Nobody symbol is basically Terra`s mark upside down(he also calls Aqua`s armor as friend).So what I am trying to say, is that he has some memories, and probably remembers stuff, but since Xemasn possibly has so many people`s memories, his mind is a mess.

But also you have to remember that BBS takes 10 years before the events of KH1. And some of those characters met with Ventus only briefly. Also Ven and Roxas do have different voice, and Mister McCartney really tried to make these two characters sound different.

About Xigbar, that just fits to the trollsih and smart personality of his. He is really smart and dangerous, and he probably kept info like that to himself. He knows far more stuff about the happenings of these series, than he shows. Even most his dialogue when you talk to him, have all these hidden meanings. He is truly an rather interesting villain. :D
I hope I manged to at least answer some you questions. :)
 

Sephiroth0812

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Hello everyone, Kingdom Hearts is one of my favorite video game series and just recently started playing through 358/2 Days again. After playing Birth By Sleep, I started to wonder why all the characters who have met Ventus have never looked at Roxas and said "Hmm... I don't remember him falling into the darkness." Especially characters like Xemnas and Xigbar. Xemnas and Xigbar were heavily involved with Ventus when they were still people (somebodies?), especially Xemnas when he was Xehanort. He fractured Ventus' heart and tried to destroy him to forge the X-Blade. Why didn't Xemnas recognize the appearance of Roxas? Was it the amnesia he had after taking over Terra? Wouldn't he had regained his memory as a Nobody? Xigbar eventually saw Xion as Ventus and called it a "blast from the past", yet he doesn't say a single thing about Roxas looking and sounding exactly like Ventus. Is it possible that all of these Nobodies saw Roxas as Sora instead of Ventus? Just like how Roxas eventually saw Xion as Sora? Even Axel and Saix don't seem to notice it and they both met Ven.

The two-fold simple answer:
1. Roxas cannot be recognized as Ventus because he is not Ventus.
2. Everyone who met Ventus did so over a decade ago and thus doesn't remember. Xigbar is an exception.

The elongated, detailed answer:

Xemnas wasn't heavily involved with Ventus ever. The fracturing of Ven's heart and the whole plans involving Ven in Birth by Sleep were carried out by Master Xehanort, the full, original Xehanort.
Xemnas was a Nobody created from the amnesiac Terra-Xehanort/Apprenticenort, which was in itself a conglomerate mess of Xehanort's, Terra's and Eraqus' hearts.
While we know that Xemnas had some memories of both Terra and Master Xehanort, we do not know how much of both memory sets he actually had.

The ability to see someone else when looking at her is exclusive to Xion because she's a memory-based replica. Roxas looks always the same to everyone.

Xigbar does state something about Roxas' similarity to Ventus in terms of appearance, yet he doesn't do so verbally but in the secret reports of 358/2 Days:
Day 117: Him and Roxas said:
Roxas is maturing at an impressive rate. His face, the way he handles the Keyblade, it's all exactly the same. The worlds seem so divided and alone, but there's always that steady thread there to connect them. And we Nobodies can never escape the things we did as humans. So it goes.
Ventus and Roxas also do sound different, as Ven's voice has a certain higher pitch than Roxas'.

Saix and Axel only met Ventus for around 15 minutes ten years ago, do you remember everyone you met only briefly a decade ago?
 

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Adding to that, Tinker Bell immediately ran to Roxas for help which can mean she remembers Ventus. It was also very convenient that Herc and Roxas kept missing each other. Phil doesn't count because Ven didn't make an impression on him like Terra and Aqua did, and even then its safe to assume he forget about them as well.
 

ParaNormaN

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The two-fold simple answer:
1. Roxas cannot be recognized as Ventus because he is not Ventus.
2. Everyone who met Ventus did so over a decade ago and thus doesn't remember. Xigbar is an exception.

The elongated, detailed answer:

Xemnas wasn't heavily involved with Ventus ever. The fracturing of Ven's heart and the whole plans involving Ven in Birth by Sleep were carried out by Master Xehanort, the full, original Xehanort.
Xemnas was a Nobody created from the amnesiac Terra-Xehanort/Apprenticenort, which was in itself a conglomerate mess of Xehanort's, Terra's and Eraqus' hearts.
While we know that Xemnas had some memories of both Terra and Master Xehanort, we do not know how much of both memory sets he actually had.

The ability to see someone else when looking at her is exclusive to Xion because she's a memory-based replica. Roxas looks always the same to everyone.

Xigbar does state something about Roxas' similarity to Ventus in terms of appearance, yet he doesn't do so verbally but in the secret reports of 358/2 Days:

Ventus and Roxas also do sound different, as Ven's voice has a certain higher pitch than Roxas'.

Interesting. So Xehanort already being in an amnesiac state also had his memory split into 2 when Xemnas and Ansem came to be? So it's possible that his memories of Ventus went to Ansem rather than Xemnas? I think either of them would have eventually recalled who Ven was since KH and KHII took place a decade later. I haven't gotten too far in Dream Drop Distance yet but, Xehanort looks like he might be playing dumb.

Saix and Axel only met Ventus for around 15 minutes ten years ago, do you remember everyone you met only briefly a decade ago?
You're asking the wrong guy here, haha. I remember faces almost instantly when I see them again after a long time. People I've met at family parties 10 years ago who I only spoke to for 5 minutes and old classmates.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Interesting. So Xehanort already being in an amnesiac state also had his memory split into 2 when Xemnas and Ansem came to be? So it's possible that his memories of Ventus went to Ansem rather than Xemnas? I think either of them would have eventually recalled who Ven was since KH and KHII took place a decade later. I haven't gotten too far in Dream Drop Distance yet but, Xehanort looks like he might be playing dumb.


You're asking the wrong guy here, haha. I remember faces almost instantly when I see them again after a long time. People I've met at family parties 10 years ago who I only spoke to for 5 minutes and old classmates.

Some memories may have also been completely buried and were with neither Ansem nor Xemnas.
One of the reasons given for Xemnas repeatedly going to the Chamber of Repose in Radiant Garden is that he went there to regain more memories of his past, possibly from both Master Xehanort and Terra.
Fact is though that the whole Xehanort/Terra/Eraqus-mess as well as exactly how their powers, memories and hearts were divided are a mysteries that are still left open on purpose by Nomura.
I won't spoil anything from DDD, but even if Ansem and/or Xemnas did remember Ventus it doesn't factor in very much as Ventus did not have anything important to do with the plans and schemes that were followed during KH 1 and 2.

Lol, it is true that there are people who are capable of such a feat, but it is certainly not the norm. ;)
 

Dreaded_Desire62

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From what I could gather, the people that met Ventus probably don't remember him and think that Roxas is just some new face that they are greeting for the first time.
 

marshmelloman420

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The reason people don't recognize Roxas and Ventus as the same person is because they aren't the same person. The reason Roxas looks so much like Ventus even though he's really Sora's nobody is only because of Sora's special connection with Ventus. When Sora's new born heart touched Ven's, the interaction caused Vanitas, the dark part of Ven's heart, to look like Sora. It is a similar situation with Ventus and Roxas. At the end of Birth by Sleep, Ven's heart was damaged again, and rejoined with Sora's heart so it could rest until it was healed. When Sora became a heartless in KH1, he turned into a shadow, but Kairi's light returned Sora to human form. Although he returned to human form, up until KH2 Sora lacked a real body, and was essentially a floating heart. So when Roxas was created, he took Ven's appearance instead because Sora still existed as a person. I'm not really sure if Ven's heart was inside Roxas' body before KH2 or if it was still "sleeping" inside Sora's.
 

Sephiroth0812

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The reason people don't recognize Roxas and Ventus as the same person is because they aren't the same person. The reason Roxas looks so much like Ventus even though he's really Sora's nobody is only because of Sora's special connection with Ventus. When Sora's new born heart touched Ven's, the interaction caused Vanitas, the dark part of Ven's heart, to look like Sora. It is a similar situation with Ventus and Roxas. At the end of Birth by Sleep, Ven's heart was damaged again, and rejoined with Sora's heart so it could rest until it was healed. When Sora became a heartless in KH1, he turned into a shadow, but Kairi's light returned Sora to human form. Although he returned to human form, up until KH2 Sora lacked a real body, and was essentially a floating heart. So when Roxas was created, he took Ven's appearance instead because Sora still existed as a person. I'm not really sure if Ven's heart was inside Roxas' body before KH2 or if it was still "sleeping" inside Sora's.

You have everything correct and the last sentence can be solved easily:

Ven's heart was still sleeping. It in fact still is, but as of Dream Drop Distance it has healed enough to at least react inside Sora (seen when Vanitas shortly appeared beside Young Xehanort and during the finale when Ven's heart allowed Sora to borrow his Keyblade Armor so the Darkness of the Nightmare would possess the armor instead of Sora himself).
The heart located inside Sora's body and inside Roxas' is both correct as it was Sora's original body that Roxas was using during Days and the Prologue of KH 2. ;)
 

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Doubt it. He developed his own Heart, therefore his own identity and I'd imagine his appearance ties into that.
 

Sephiroth0812

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Roxas will not look any different because his appearance does not depend on Ventus.
Ventus is only the origin of his looks.
Everyone, Roxas himself included, remembers him with his current appearance and thus he will stay in that appearance if he gets to become an entity of his own again.

As for the confusing part...as shown in DDD it took Riku mere seconds to recognize that Ventus isn't Roxas, Jiminy Cricket also has no problem differentiating them in his journal in Coded, so in-universe it seems to be not that much of a hindrance. It's mostly the fandom that keeps seeing problems with it.
Their personalities, battle stances and voices are clearly different too and they have the different colored eyebrows as a physical trait to differentiate them.
If Roxas really gets to return as is own entity, they will probably play the role of a pair of identical twins without them strictly being biologically related.

Who knows, in the future they might even use their similar appearances as an advantage.
 
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LeonesFangs

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Of course not! 10+ years passed between birth by sleep and 358/2 days. I don't think many people would remember the appearance of someone they knew for only a fraction of that time period and what I would assume would span a couple of days. Meaning Ven was barely in Olympus coliseum for lets put a few days at most. Do you how many people would have passed through during a span of years? Many thus pushing the events of birth by sleep in the back of many peoples minds.
 
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