Why I'm against Time Travel and how Normura should have brought back some of the 13 SODs



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5glitchers5

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The reason I'm against Time Travel is because some of my favorite Xehanort forms or favorite Villains (Ansem, SOD, and Xemnas) can't truly exist in the present. It's something that always bothered me, but basically they are already dead, but still in the present only for a short time. They then go back to their time and forget the things that have happened. I would be more content with them being in the present just like Xehanort as they are not destined to go back to the past and are not supposed to exist in the present. I don't know, it's kinda hard to explain. Anyways how I would've revived Xehanort forms. First off Master Xehanort would revive just as he does now, only that Terra's body also revives with Master Xehanort's heart still in-control. Since Terra's last body was what Xemnas was using, and the fact that Xemnas has a part of Master Xehanort's heart and/ or grew his own heart, he too has revived. Since Nobodies can grow a heart, they are similar to humans any how, and the only slight thing is Xemnas revives as a Human. Also I would've made Braig and Isa revive just like Lea, Ienzo, etc did only they look just like their nobody selves, and still keep their nobody names. Now let's go with Ansem, Seeker of Darkness. Ansem, SOD would revive after the KH Encoder exploded in KH 2 while Riku still looks mostly like Ansem (Riku-Ansem). Basically the KH Encoder doesn't destroy Ansem, rather Ansem's heart splits from Riku. Just like in KH: COM Ansem still has a body because he possesed a body before because he now has a physical form in the world. He has a body the same way he did in KH: COM. The heart fragment of Ansem grew when inside Riku just like Xemnas grew a heart. Both Ansem and Xemnas have their own personalities depite being similar to Xehanort. I love the idea that a part of Ansem and Xemans are not destined to become that old man again (Master Xehanort). They are their own entities, and I would also sneak another surprise. Afterthe defeat of Vanitas in KH: BBS, Vanitas's heart would've went to Riku's to heal just like Ventus's went to Sora's heart to heal as it sensed some potential in Riku. His heart would heal insider Riku's and in KH 1 the Darkness and the darkness of Ansem, SOD would've made it stronger. When the KH Encoder explodes, not only does Ansem SOD release, but so does the shadow of Vanitas! It would be a great thing to see him return like this as well. Now for Young Xehanort, I still believe he is relevant, but the other memebers that weren't seen would be brought back via Time Travel with the 13th Vessel to still have yet to join. Also I would've kept the KH BBS FM designs as they looked much better! And Billy Zane (and if we can't get him I would have Clancy Brown rather than Richard Epcar) voice Ansem in all appearances KH 2 onward. I was disappointed Ansem doesn't say "Come, Guardian!" in KH: 3D, rather he says "Protect Me!", but he should still say "Come, Guardian!" as that should not only be one of his signature quotes like Axel saying "Got it memorized" or Ansem saying "This world has been connected", but it should also be one of the commands for the Guardian, always. I don't know. That's just me. I hope you like! :cool: Anyways to see the KH BBS FM models, check this video: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klNkio3YzwI" target="_blank">[video=youtube;klNkio3YzwI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klNkio3YzwI[/video]




Also what do you guys think of Time Travel? I personally hated it. What do you guys think of my ways of bringing back some of the SOD's? I think some of it actually might happen without Time Travel to be honest.
 
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Ballad of Caius

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This is a nice theory, but how can Riku be Vanitas's heart's nest when they never met? Ventus connected his heart with Sora's because, before being born, Sora contacted Ven and established a connection heart-to-heart (literally). Vanitas has never even met with Riku to begin with. If anything, Sora is the closest candidate to harbor Vanitas's heart since Vanitas's connection with Ven is deep, and Ven is deeply connected with Sora.
 

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the time travel makes no sense to me, i mean, if maybe i was given a good explanation to it then yeah i'd understand, but all i know is that xehanort is able to go around because a version of him is at the exact moment where he's seen or something?

also, holy shit that wall of text
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Nice paragraph.

It's good but like what Ballad said the Vanitas part can't really work with Riku do to Riku not having a previous connection with him.
I don't really mind the time travel because at least they're using a better version then what we got in II, and it's very limited in what can be done (to the point where I want to say useless.) Though I didn't like that Ansem and Xemnas were there because of time travel when there were already established ways (REPLICA BODIES BLARGH!) for them to be around again. Though even with the DDD version of time travel in play, it doesn't mean those two will be in III through time travel (I'm hoping) as I yelled five seconds ago, they can be brought back by having their hearts inserted into Replica bodies. We could also have Apprenticenort inexplicably come back and re-release his heart/s again, which I'd take over time travel any day.

the time travel makes no sense to me, i mean, if maybe i was given a good explanation to it then yeah i'd understand, but all i know is that xehanort is able to go around because a version of him is at the exact moment where he's seen or something?
I thought the game explained it pretty well. You can only travel to where you have been or where you will be, and you can't screw with time.
 

Gram

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As mentioned the Vanitas bit can't work.

As for the other aspects:
First off Master Xehanort would revive just as he does now, only that Terra's body also revives with Master Xehanort's heart still in-control.
To be fair this is likely what's happened. MX mentions Terra is still under his control but Nomura dodges the question of where Terra actually is, implying they are now separate.

Basically the KH Encoder doesn't destroy Ansem, rather Ansem's heart splits from Riku. Just like in KH: COM Ansem still has a body because he possesed a body before because he now has a physical form in the world. He has a body the same way he did in KH: COM.
You misunderstand Ansem in CoM. What made Ansem physical was the special card that Diz gave Riku. Ansem hasn't had a physical body since he stole Riku's which Riku then gained back and then struggled with Ansem over control of.

When the encoder exploded Ansem was definitely freed but Ansem's "body" was Xemnas thus by laws of recompletion he'd return to that body.

Your also forgetting the very important fact that "Ansem" is "Xehanort reduced to just a heart". Ansem is Xehanort's heart so just how much of him is an individual is up to debate plus it'd be impossible for him to reform as his own self when both his heart, the core of his being, is MX's while the body that acted as his nobody was Terra's.

This is what makes Xehanort and his forms such a mess you see. "Ansem" & Xemnas had parts of several people, the body+soul wasn't theirs but Terra's and they were born from three hearts rather than one.
While it's possible Xemnas formed a heart of his own as a nobody can, Ansem is a different matter because he was already "just a heart" and that heart in questino was Xehanorts.

We don't know where Terra and Eraqus went in that mess nor where they went once recompletion happened. Recompletion has a heart rejoin with the body+soul that was discarded.
For Terra's heart that would be the body of Xemnas but for Ansem/MX's heart that'd be his old man body he ditched in BBS.
This now also leaves Eraqus and the possible heart of Xemnas in unknown waters, though it's a fan theory that Xemnas' heart is what is keeping a reformed Terra under MX's control. (sorta like Xemnas & Terra reformed as a type of "Neo-Terranort")

Sadly it all a mess we'll likely never get answers too. In fact I'd go as far as to say that Nomura using recompletion as an excuse to bring back MX & Terra separately is his way of undoing the mess he created.

As for my opinion on time travel? I have went as far as to make a couple threads trying to detail it such as this one: http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-iii/198272-perhaps-time-travel-isnt-too-concrete.html or the link in my signature but all in all I also dislike it.
I do give Nomura that he at least thought it through and made it pretty much impossible for the series to pull alternate timelines and I do give him credit for actually going out of his way to make YX explain it not once but twice in detail.

It however still came off as confusing because most fans try to compare it to the conventional alternate timeline logic of other series when KH doesn't follow that logic. (specifically the Novikov principle)

In my mind it was just an excuse to bring back Ansem and Xemnas for one last bout as well as to bring in YX. It just feels unnecessary when he already had two existing concepts to use. (replicas and recompletion)
It'd have been so much simpler to go "oh yes some of them are recompleted Org members while others are products of Vexen's replica program".
 

5glitchers5

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As mentioned the Vanitas bit can't work.

As for the other aspects:


To be fair this is likely what's happened. MX mentions Terra is still under his control but Nomura dodges the question of where Terra actually is, implying they are now separate.


You misunderstand Ansem in CoM. What made Ansem physical was the special card that Diz gave Riku. Ansem hasn't had a physical body since he stole Riku's which Riku then gained back and then struggled with Ansem over control of.

When the encoder exploded Ansem was definitely freed but Ansem's "body" was Xemnas thus by laws of recompletion he'd return to that body.

Your also forgetting the very important fact that "Ansem" is "Xehanort reduced to just a heart". Ansem is Xehanort's heart so just how much of him is an individual is up to debate plus it'd be impossible for him to reform as his own self when both his heart, the core of his being, is MX's while the body that acted as his nobody was Terra's.

This is what makes Xehanort and his forms such a mess you see. "Ansem" & Xemnas had parts of several people, the body+soul wasn't theirs but Terra's and they were born from three hearts rather than one.
While it's possible Xemnas formed a heart of his own as a nobody can, Ansem is a different matter because he was already "just a heart" and that heart in questino was Xehanorts.

We don't know where Terra and Eraqus went in that mess nor where they went once recompletion happened. Recompletion has a heart rejoin with the body+soul that was discarded.
For Terra's heart that would be the body of Xemnas but for Ansem/MX's heart that'd be his old man body he ditched in BBS.
This now also leaves Eraqus and the possible heart of Xemnas in unknown waters, though it's a fan theory that Xemnas' heart is what is keeping a reformed Terra under MX's control. (sorta like Xemnas & Terra reformed as a type of "Neo-Terranort")

Sadly it all a mess we'll likely never get answers too. In fact I'd go as far as to say that Nomura using recompletion as an excuse to bring back MX & Terra separately is his way of undoing the mess he created.

As for my opinion on time travel? I have went as far as to make a couple threads trying to detail it such as this one: http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-iii/198272-perhaps-time-travel-isnt-too-concrete.html or the link in my signature but all in all I also dislike it.
I do give Nomura that he at least thought it through and made it pretty much impossible for the series to pull alternate timelines and I do give him credit for actually going out of his way to make YX explain it not once but twice in detail.

It however still came off as confusing because most fans try to compare it to the conventional alternate timeline logic of other series when KH doesn't follow that logic. (specifically the Novikov principle)

In my mind it was just an excuse to bring back Ansem and Xemnas for one last bout as well as to bring in YX. It just feels unnecessary when he already had two existing concepts to use. (replicas and recompletion)
It'd have been so much simpler to go "oh yes some of them are recompleted Org members while others are products of Vexen's replica program".

Here's my way of bringing Ansem and Xemnas back. Basically Terra's body with Xehanort under-control is now Xemnas. And when Ansem was destroyed in KH 1, a part of him was still with Riku, while the rest of Master Xehanort's heart was set free. And since Master Xehanort had two different bodies, Master Xehnoart and Xemans reivive at the same time as humans. Also I don't see how they couldn't have found a way to give Ansem his own body. You can easily say the heart fragment that stayed with Riku grew and Ansem is now his own entity. I mean Ansem and Xemnas I feel are more important, and Terra-Xehanort rather than Xemnas should have been brought back with Time Travel being one of the 13 Seekers. This way Master Xehanort, Ansem SOD, and Xemnas are the main Xehanorts for KH 3.
 
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