Why did they do this? (Fun discussion)

[vaderskywalker]

Why was KH3 used to set up the next saga? I mean KH2 wasn't used this way, and I mean regular KH2 and not final mix. The note doesn't count, yes it was an open-ended ending (not sure if I'm using that term right) but it was a somewhat happy ending, it just feels like kh3 could have done the same thing, have a happy ending while also setting up a future game or games with the same after credits scene (as much as I really don't like relying on the phone games) with luxu and the foretellers. as much as I enjoy the game KH3 just feels like a crutch for the next saga. what are your thoughts? and when I say happy ending I mean no one dying.

 

[BufferAqua]

Sora disappearing at the end seemed essential for the new saga because its related to the new story.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Sora disappearing at the end seemed essential for the new saga because its related to the new story.

Fair enough, but what about the rest of the game, like Verum Rex in toy box

 

[AR829038]

Why was KH3 used to set up the next saga? I mean KH2 wasn't used this way, and I mean regular KH2 and not final mix. The note doesn't count, yes it was an open-ended ending (not sure if I'm using that term right) but it was a somewhat happy ending, it just feels like kh3 could have done the same thing, have a happy ending while also setting up a future game or games with the same after credits scene (as much as I really don't like relying on the phone games) with luxu and the foretellers. as much as I enjoy the game KH3 just feels like a crutch for the next saga. what are your thoughts? and when I say happy ending I mean no one dying.

I really don't think this is as much of an issue as people keep making it out to be. Sure, the break between sagas wasn't as clean this time around, but I don't necessarily see how that's a problem. There are definitely parts of KH3 where I think the setup for the next saga is too overt and obnoxious, but my issues there have to do more with execution than with the setup itself (for example, I think the way they worked Subject X into conversations between Lea and Isa was terribly obvious and not handled well at all).

I think people don't take into account the opposite problem, which is that if Nomura hadn't made it clear that the series was continuing, then many people might not have understood that KH3 wasn't the finale of the series. There were plenty of people even up to the release of the game that were still under the erroneous impression that it would be the end of the series. Perhaps, given the increased financial stakes of needing this game to both do well and also open up a new broader fanbase to future content, Nomura felt he needed to make absolutely certain that people understood this wasn't the end by a long shot.

Personally, I think all the UX callbacks were more of an issue than setting up the next saga. I can only imagine what it would have been like to go into KH3 not having experienced the UX lore dumps that it ended up relying so heavily on. I think the decision to make a mobile game that few people would have played so integral to the plot of that game was the biggest mistake Nomura has ever made with this series. But just setting up the next saga is not something I have an issue with.

 

[vaderskywalker]

Personally, I think all the UX callbacks were more of an issue than setting up the next saga. I can only imagine what it would have been like to go into KH3 not having experienced the UX lore dumps that it ended up relying so heavily on. I think the decision to make a mobile game that few people would have played so integral to the plot of that game was the biggest mistake Nomura has ever made with this series.

I agree, a phone game that has nothing to with the main cast except Ven should not be shoved down everyone's throat just for the lore, but it didn't need to be a phone game Ethier (I'll post my idea for that in the UX section in case you're interested) because while it shouldn't be important for the next saga (unfortunately it is) it could have been a great stand-alone game if 1. it wasn't a phone, game 2. Ven wasn't involved, and 3. it didn't need to involve the fortellers, luxu and and the Master Of Masters coming to the future, there story had already been told, it would have been better to Ethier introduce a new villain in Kingdom Hearts 4 or make a Disney villain the main villain like maleficent, she could have been the main villain with a new council of Disney villains or a little bit of both ideas, introduce a Disney villain in Kingdom Hearts 4 with a council of Disney villains lead by the horned king, that would have been better.

 

[Chie]

I don't know what good the story would be served by having a fake happy ending just for the sake of it "feeling like an ending". KH2 they probably didn't know for sure if they could make more games or not, but now it's expected.

 

[vaderskywalker]

I don't know what good the story would be served by having a fake happy ending just for the sake of it "feeling like an ending". KH2 they probably didn't know for sure if they could make more games or not, but now it's expected.

KH3 already has a fake happy ending, everyone is having a beach party while Sora is trying to save Kairi, they don't get sad or worried until he disappears, at least the ending I came up with where no one dies is still a cliff hanger, besides they would all be together at the beach party uninterrupted, the cliffhanger still happens at the keyblade graveyard, in this version of kh4 they would be having a normal day when they suddenly get ambushed by the foretellers, and no this is not a fanfic, I'm not a very creative person, I mean I can come up with creative scenarios and theories, but entire scenes, dialog and story's yeah no, I can't even come up with good names for my post, some are easy to do but others not so much, like for example one of my other post is called how would you describe KH, and it's not about the story or plot, it's whether KH is a universe or a multiverse, it's easier to come up with the post themselves than the names.

 

[SweetYetSalty]

I didn't mind the Verum Rex/Yozora setup because you didn't have to play another game beforehand to understand it. It was brand new for everyone even if it came off as being salty about Versus XIII at first. The UX stuff is another matter. In fact I think the mobile games had more impact/presence in KH3 then titles such as CoM, Days, and Re:Coded.

 

[Zackarix]

When writing a sequel to a story you can either choose to tell a new story with a pre-existing setting and characters or you can declare your old story to be retroactively part of the new one.

KH has a long history of choosing the second option. It's disappointing (especially when resolution was supposed to be the theme of KH3) but at this point it's expected.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

The main issue I still see with KH III is not the/a setup for the next saga/entry but that, unlike I and II, that part nearly overtakes the current story issues and results in an overall weaker narrative.
What should have been a more thorough and focused resolution of the past issues and narrative threads turned into just a check-list to cross entries off from in a rushed form which did not give very many characters and their (supposed) important connections and relationships the attention one would expect from a series which has the supposed central theme of such.
It was all rushed with one or two scenes and a few one-liners to an end with too much focus on some "grander picture" and things that are to come rather than what was more or less advertised before.

Re: Mind did address this to some degree by adding some extra breadcrumbs but it barely changes the final result:

The balance is screwed up in III.

In I and II hints and "baiting" for next developments and bigger new narratives was limited to some small things on the side like secret reports and some verbal mysteries discussed by characters once or twice (like Xigbar's obvious hints towards the BBS trio in II during some scenes) but the brunt of the "Hey this isn't fully over stay tuned for the continuation"-baiting was confined to the unlockable secret endings only.

Not so in III, that was more like a "and now let's turn to something entirely different"-action at the same time as dealing with the stuff that was already there.

 

[vaderskywalker]

The main issue I still see with KH III is not the/a setup for the next saga/entry but that, unlike I and II, that part nearly overtakes the current story issues and results in an overall weaker narrative.
What should have been a more thorough and focused resolution of the past issues and narrative threads turned into just a check-list to cross entries off from in a rushed form which did not give very many characters and their (supposed) important connections and relationships the attention one would expect from a series which has the supposed central theme of such.
It was all rushed with one or two scenes and a few one-liners to an end with too much focus on some "grander picture" and things that are to come rather than what was more or less advertised before.

Re: Mind did address this to some degree by adding some extra breadcrumbs but it barely changes the final result:

The balance is screwed up in III.

In I and II hints and "baiting" for next developments and bigger new narratives was limited to some small things on the side like secret reports and some verbal mysteries discussed by characters once or twice (like Xigbar's obvious hints towards the BBS trio in II during some scenes) but the brunt of the "Hey this isn't fully over stay tuned for the continuation"-baiting was confined to the unlockable secret endings only.

Not so in III, that was more like a "and now let's turn to something entirely different"-action at the same time as dealing with the stuff that was already there.

I agree.