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I think it's weird when people think KH made more sense in the first installment, considering I find that to be the most confusing of them so far. Nothing was explained in-game, it made absolutely no sense why Kingdom Hearts, being made of light, was in the Realm of Darkness, we didn't know who Ansem SoD was or what he really wanted to do and why he wanted to do it, how he could possess Riku, why the Keyblade randomly appeared for Sora, why Mickey was in the Realm of Darkness...the list goes on. Sure, you could chalk a lot of that up to "magic" and superficial, presumed character motivations, but for those of us who like actual answers, KH has done a good job in subsequent installments (including and I would say especially KH2) of shedding light on existing mysteries while always maintaining a forward momentum with the plot by presenting new conflicts and questions for each game to confront. Now, if we want to talk about Dream Drop Distance, I'll agree that it looks pretty convoluted right now; but we only have so much information to go on, and it isn't very much. Whether the game will make sense in the end remains to be seen, but I think anyone who comprehended KH1 perfectly but struggled to follow KH2 is inexplicable. At the end of the first game, I had nothing but questions. Following the second, I thought it could have ended and I would have felt very satisfied with that conclusion.Problem is we're only talking about one game here though and I don't think you want to put the whole series on blast cause looking at it's track record, and this might just be my opinion, and I'm fine with that, but KH as a whole looks like a cluster f*** of ideas gone wrong. While KH1, BBS, and COM were really great even they themselves seem to have created many problems that's beginning to look like Nomura just pull ish out of his ***.
1. Considering most people finished the entire game in their first run-through in less than that (including my best friend at the time), I call BS. If you're talking about doing everything possible in terms of game-play in each of those worlds, sure, but all of that can be carried over; if we're talking plot-centric material, nope. And I'm only talking about the Disney worlds, to clarify.I wouldn't do that if I were you as the game length will shrink massively it in the worse way. Just throwing stuff off the top of my head
1. Visiting certain worlds for the first time would be axed that's about a good 15 hours gone
2. Cutting out Atlantica entirely
3. Entire worlds could actually be removed from the game Halloween Town and Mulan come to mind.
Only if you'll tell me you didn't think we were supposed to observe that as anything other than motivation to get Sora angry enough to fight like he needed to. It wasn't Goofy's "death" we were meant to respond to; it was Sora's reaction to it. I thought that was very effective on those terms, yes. Similarly, I thought it was a great show of character for Goofy to place himself in harm's way in order to protect Sora. It's nice to have affirmations of the devotion these characters feel for each other every once in a while so that Donald and Goofy don't just become party members trailing along behind you.Please tell me you don't believe the part with goofy supposedly either dying/being hurt was epic?
Which awkward moment? You mean the one where he expressed emotion over finally seeing his friend after a year of not knowing definitively whether he was alive or dead or whether they would ever meet again? Yeah, that was actually another great character and plot moment in my book, for Sora, Riku and Kairi. Furthermore, judging a story's quality by the interpretations (contrived or logical) of certain fans is entirely counter intuitive. They're not writing the story. Their concept of subtext has no bearing on its actual context. Lastly, I sense an underlying notion of hetero-subjectivity within that statement. Say Sora and Riku are gay. What of it?As for Sora's huge character moment counter that with the awkward moment near the end of KH2 before the Xemnas final fight and that pretty much tells it all. Hint it inspired yaoi for some fans of the game especially a lot of girls.
Seifer being a goofy character is absolutely justification for a goofy line. It's like complaining about Pete having a goofy line. Seifer was not meant to be threatening; he was meant to be a dickish adolescent. You were supposed to laugh at him trying to be badass, then kick his butt with Roxas. End of story.Seifer being a goofy kid villain is no excuse for a line like that no matter what if he was trying to sell himself at being a badass he failed at it pretty hard.
I think it's weird when people think KH made more sense in the first installment, considering I find that to be the most confusing of them so far. Nothing was explained in-game, it made absolutely no sense why Kingdom Hearts, being made of light, was in the Realm of Darkness, we didn't know who Ansem SoD was or what he really wanted to do and why he wanted to do it, how he could possess Riku, why the Keyblade randomly appeared for Sora, why Mickey was in the Realm of Darkness...the list goes on. Sure, you could chalk a lot of that up to "magic" and superficial, presumed character motivations, but for those of us who like actual answers, KH has done a good job in subsequent installments (including and I would say especially KH2) of shedding light on existing mysteries while always maintaining a forward momentum with the plot by presenting new conflicts and questions for each game to confront.
Only if you'll tell me you didn't think we were supposed to observe that as anything other than motivation to get Sora angry enough to fight like he needed to. It wasn't Goofy's "death" we were meant to respond to; it was Sora's reaction to it. I thought that was very effective on those terms, yes. Similarly, I thought it was a great show of character for Goofy to place himself in harm's way in order to protect Sora. It's nice to have affirmations of the devotion these characters feel for each other every once in a while so that Donald and Goofy don't just become party members trailing along behind you.
They do, however, work better when they have a functioning internal logic. Kingdom Hearts lacked that, or at least failed to identify what it was. I'm not saying it was a bad game, I'm not even saying it was ineffective because I don't think it was; in a number of ways, its storytelling was superior to KH2's. It just didn't make any more sense than KH2 did on a comprehensive basis.here's the thing
works of fiction don't need to answer everything to be effective
KH1 had a lot of shit that was left up in the air but that didn't mean that the game didn't make sense, it was a simple enough story at that point
Again, your argument hinges upon the notion that we were meant to invest in Goofy's non-death. We were not supposed to believe Goofy was going to die. We were supposed to believe that Sora would get as angry over his death as he did. And I thought the scene was executed very well. Sora's "This isn't happening. This can't be happening." really spoke to the chaotic nature of the moment. I hold by my opinion that that entire sequence of events leading up to the 1000 Heartless was the greatest battle number the series has ever seen. Everything was happening at once and it had this great urgent, cinematic quality to it. It felt like war.lol are you fucking kidding me
the whole scene was just executed so fucking poorly
"DERP IM GOOFY IM DEAD"
"NOOOOOO GOOOOOOFYYYYY"
then 5 minutes later
"NAH JUST KIDDIN' IM K"
it was so stupid and awkward, it wasn't effective at all
Originally Posted By alexis.anagram
I think it's weird when people think KH made more sense in the first installment, considering I find that to be the most confusing of them so far. Nothing was explained in-game, it made absolutely no sense why Kingdom Hearts, being made of light, was in the Realm of Darkness, we didn't know who Ansem SoD was or what he really wanted to do and why he wanted to do it, how he could possess Riku, why the Keyblade randomly appeared for Sora, why Mickey was in the Realm of Darkness...the list goes on. Sure, you could chalk a lot of that up to "magic" and superficial, presumed character motivations, but for those of us who like actual answers, KH has done a good job in subsequent installments (including and I would say especially KH2) of shedding light on existing mysteries while always maintaining a forward momentum with the plot by presenting new conflicts and questions for each game to confront. Now, if we want to talk about Dream Drop Distance, I'll agree that it looks pretty convoluted right now; but we only have so much information to go on, and it isn't very much. Whether the game will make sense in the end remains to be seen, but I think anyone who comprehended KH1 perfectly but struggled to follow KH2 is inexplicable. At the end of the first game, I had nothing but questions. Following the second, I thought it could have ended and I would have felt very satisfied with that conclusion.
Originally Posted By alexis.anagram
1. Considering most people finished the entire game in their first run-through in less than that (including my best friend at the time), I call BS. If you're talking about doing everything possible in terms of game-play in each of those worlds, sure, but all of that can be carried over; if we're talking plot-centric material, nope. And I'm only talking about the Disney worlds, to clarify.
2. Atlantica was unnecessary and I know a lot of people who didn't play through it in KH2. Don't see the problem with that.
3. I could see Halloween Town being removed, but Mulan? No. Numerous plot-heavy events take place in The Land of Dragons as well as some nice (maybe not totally necessary, but nice) character development. Also, it wasn't a repeat world.
Originally Posted By alexis.anagram
Again, your argument hinges upon the notion that we were meant to invest in Goofy's non-death. We were not supposed to believe Goofy was going to die. We were supposed to believe that Sora would get as angry over his death as he did. And I thought the scene was executed very well. Sora's "This isn't happening. This can't be happening." really spoke to the chaotic nature of the moment. I hold by my opinion that that entire sequence of events leading up to the 1000 Heartless was the greatest battle number the series has ever seen. Everything was happening at once and it had this great urgent, cinematic quality to it. It felt like war.
I think it's weird when people think KH made more sense in the first installment, considering I find that to be the most confusing of them so far. Nothing was explained in-game, it made absolutely no sense why Kingdom Hearts, being made of light, was in the Realm of Darkness, we didn't know who Ansem SoD was or what he really wanted to do and why he wanted to do it, how he could possess Riku, why the Keyblade randomly appeared for Sora, why Mickey was in the Realm of Darkness...the list goes on. Sure, you could chalk a lot of that up to "magic" and superficial, presumed character motivations, but for those of us who like actual answers, KH has done a good job in subsequent installments (including and I would say especially KH2) of shedding light on existing mysteries while always maintaining a forward momentum with the plot by presenting new conflicts and questions for each game to confront.
Again, your argument hinges upon the notion that we were meant to invest in Goofy's non-death. We were not supposed to believe Goofy was going to die. We were supposed to believe that Sora would get as angry over his death as he did.
The only couple of things that really weren't explained back in 2002 was where is Riku and where did Sora, Donald, and Goofy(sorry I know) Oh and why Mickey had a Keyblade.
It's really quite funny you guys remind me of the GTplanet community a lot of people feel as though we should grovel at Nomura's feet and like he doesn't do anything wrong, and you also feel as if this series is too perfect with each installment. I call BS just like a lot of people say on that site I'm glad people complain because if they didn't we'd have more games like KH2 even though 358/2 Days nor Re:coded did the series much good, but still BBS was a breath of fresh air, but as for DDD let's just say I'm tired of all these new enemies being introduced each game whatever happened to the BIG BAD HEARTLESS?
But I never said the Heartless didn't make sense so I'm not sure why you're presenting an explanation on that.First off how was the first game really confusing? Only speaking on the whole heartless part of it.
Had the heart we find out it's filled with both light and darkness and within every heart there is darkness, and depending how great it is said person can turn into a heartless.
Thematic, but not logical. It doesn't answer WHY something composed entirely of light would be locked away in the Realm of Darkness.1) KH being in the RoD was probably to put emphasis on the theme that "within every darkness there is a light" and what-not.
It was never clear how much of the Ansem Reports could be relied on; they were anecdotal observations formed by someone who had more questions than answers. Case in point: Ansem SoD believed Kingdom Hearts was the door to a realm of pure darkness-- clearly, Sora proved him wrong. And for everything the Ansem Reports offered information on, they didn't provide a great deal of insight into Ansem's (actually Xehanort's) true goals and motivations: for instance, why he was willing to go so far as to turn himself into a Heartless.2) The Ansem Reports said he was a scientist who experimented and brought the (emblem) Heartless to be and what-not, no? Plus, he wanted the Heart of All Worlds, too, so I'm guessing that's why he did everything, to gain power plus knowledge. That part was probably left open to interpretation, though I swear it was strongly hinted if not said.
But he wasn't just darkness, he was a Heartless without a corporeal vessel. It was never explained how (or why) he possessed Riku. Furthermore, it wasn't explained how he existed without a form prior to entering Riku's body, and then it was never explained how he regained his original form after the fact. So, yes, it is actually quite complicated if you think about the process.3) Ansem, we knew, was basically darkness. Riku was being overtaken by darkness. It's also inferred he didn't have a proper form, what with the cloak and what-not, and needed a host. It's not really that complicated.
Yes, we needed an explanation, because Sora wasn't the chosen one. The Keyblade left him for Riku and it was never entirely clear why until Birth By Sleep. If Sora was simply the "chosen one", the Keyblade wouldn't have rebelled against him. And it wasn't clear what "opening the door" meant. Which door? Throughout the game, Sora spent the entire time locking doors to worlds and never actually opened any. In fact, the very end of the game sees him helping to lock the Door to Darkness.4) Sora was "the chosen one" and the one who would open the door, as said by Mickey in KH1. Did we need an explanation otehr than that?
He never said anything about the DKK in his letter. The scene with Riku was only in Final Mix, although I'll concede that, for those who saw it, it did explain a lot.5) Mickey said he was searching for the DKK in his letter and to Riku in the RoD.
Obviously, that depends on the person (see: LOST fans). Again, I'm not arguing that KH1 made universally bad choices in storytelling; however, not everything was explained and it wasn't any easier to follow than KH2 was, not by a long shot.Everything was explained, or just left with a simple enough explanation that was open to interpretation. Is it so bad for a story to do?
Thematic, but not logical. It doesn't answer WHY something composed entirely of light would be locked away in the Realm of Darkness.
It was never clear how much of the Ansem Reports could be relied on; they were anecdotal observations formed by someone who had more questions than answers. Case in point: Ansem SoD believed Kingdom Hearts was the door to a realm of pure darkness-- clearly, Sora proved him wrong. And for everything the Ansem Reports offered information on, they didn't provide a great deal of insight into Ansem's (actually Xehanort's) true goals and motivations: for instance, why he was willing to go so far as to turn himself into a Heartless.
But he wasn't just darkness, he was a Heartless without a corporeal vessel.
It was never explained how (or why) he possessed Riku. Furthermore, it wasn't explained how he existed without a form prior to entering Riku's body, and then it was never explained how he regained his original form after the fact. So, yes, it is actually quite complicated if you think about the process.
Yes, we needed an explanation, because Sora wasn't the chosen one. The Keyblade left him for Riku and it was never entirely clear why until Birth By Sleep. If Sora was simply the "chosen one", the Keyblade wouldn't have rebelled against him.
And it wasn't clear what "opening the door" meant. Which door? Throughout the game, Sora spent the entire time locking doors to worlds and never actually opened any. In fact, the very end of the game sees him helping to lock the Door to Darkness.
He never said anything about the DKK in his letter.
The scene with Riku was only in Final Mix, although I'll concede that, for those who saw it, it did explain a lot.
Obviously, that depends on the person (see: LOST fans). Again, I'm not arguing that KH1 made universally bad choices in storytelling; however, not everything was explained and it wasn't any easier to follow than KH2 was, not by a long shot.