Why are the worlds split?

[ddta1177]

SPOILERS**SPOILERS**SPOILERS**


Something has really been confusing me about the new game. The worlds seem to be split in two, like Frollo dies twice once in Sora's story and once in Riku's and they're both different. Traverse Town too why is Neku in Sora's story seperated from Shiki and Beat in Riku's story and why can Joshua and Rhyme travel between the two? Help please!:wink:

Also does anybody know how to make it say spoiler at the thread title or change the title of the thread because I just realized the title is a spoiler and I would like to change it. Thanks.

 

[Cosmic+Amarna]

Because they are dreams, hence RoS

 

[ddta1177]

So then are Frollo and Quasimodo real or are they just figments of Sora and Riku's imagination?

 

[OathkeeperRoxas XIII]

So then are Frollo and Quasimodo real or are they just figments of Sora and Riku's imagination?

They are real, but are the dream versions of the real ones. Hence the realm of Sleep. And can they be Sora and Riku's imagination, we never neem to that world before.

 

[ddta1177]

Okay thanks for clearing that up.

 

[MATGSY]

So then if Notre Dame is restored to RoL, will Frollo be alive & well?






& we can finally fight him?

 

[ddta1177]

So then if Notre Dame is restored to RoL, will Frollo be alive & well?

Yeah will Frollo be alive in the real world when we free La Cite Des Cloches because he only died in a dream. I hope we can fight him I was so dissapointed when I found out we couldn't, first the Evil Queen and now Frollo it's so annoying how I can't fight my favorite villains. Thanks.

 

[MasterZeR0]

So then if Notre Dame is restored to RoL, will Frollo be alive & well?






& we can finally fight him?

Unless he died in the RoL prior to the world falling asleep, yes.

 

[Light]

See, then the whole thing with them being dream versions confuses me. So by saving fake dream worlds, do they awaken those worlds from their slumber, returning them to the Realm of Light?

 

[Memory Master]

This is how I understand it. Since the worlds are dreams of the real worlds they are based on, when Sora and Riku enter a world its like they are following different versions of the same dream, in other words Sora and Riku being in those worlds are shapping the dream, causing two different versions of the dream to exist.

I don't know if it is confirmed or just hinted, but anyways it seems to be hinted that the dream worlds being dreams of the real worlds they are based on, the dreams are actually dreams of that worlds past. In other words Frollo already died in the real version of La Cite Des Cloches before it fell to darkness. Its speculated that The Grid is actually the original program created by Encom that was deleted mentioned by Tron in KH2. So when it was deleted it apparently ended up in the Realm of Sleep, thus those events had to take place in the past.

Now I may be wrong about the dreams of each world being based on their past, for all we know Frollo is alive now in the Realm of Light. But i'm pretty sure The Grid is the original deleted program created by Encom, Country of the Musketeers is probably a dream of Disney Castle in the past(Why they didn't use this world in BBS to give Pete a good reason for banishment I will never understand), Symphony of Sorcery seems to be a dream of Mysterious Tower in the past, same goes for Pranksters Paradise too, so we can kind of assume the same is true for La Cite Des Cloches.

What I would like to know is if the worlds are now awaken and Sora and Riku were in the dreams of those worlds based on the past, then would the memories of the people who were also asleep on the sleeping worlds be altered to where Riku and Sora were in the memories of those past events, thus if we visit some of these worlds again in the future the characters would recognize Sora and Riku?

 

[captain]

Yeah will Frollo be alive in the real world when we free La Cite Des Cloches because he only died in a dream. I hope we can fight him I was so dissapointed when I found out we couldn't, first the Evil Queen and now Frollo it's so annoying how I can't fight my favorite villains. Thanks.

NO! YOU DIE IN THE DREAM, YOU DIE IN REAL LIFE!!!

Country of the Musketeers is probably a dream of Disney Castle in the past(Why they didn't use this world in BBS to give Pete a good reason for banishment I will never understand)

THIS
I've been pissed about this since the world was announced

 

[Marx15]

Some of my understanding from what I've seen in playthroughs so far, is that Sora is asleep and that's why he and Riku don't share scenarios together.

It's that at one point in the beginning of the game, Xehanort's new Organization caught Sora and put him to sleep. So all the worlds that Sora goes through, are his dreams. Meaning that Riku is the only one that actually traversed the RoS and Sora was asleep the whole time in The World That Never Was.
So that gives a reason as to why Riku is the only one who became a Master, since Yen Sid says that Riku was the one who sealed all the Keyholes in the RoS, meaning Sora didn't.

In The World That Never Was, Braig says that Sora has been diving deeper into sleep since he started this journey, so the way I see it, is that with each "Keyhole" Sora sealed, he dove deeper into sleep.

Each time Sora dove into another world, he went deeper and deeper into sleep. I think of Inception with this idea, a dream within a dream, and the deeper the level, the more dangerous it becomes and the harder it is to escape.


Within the RoS, Riku is Sora's DE which means that Sora should exist within Riku's scenario and they should meet, which they do at The World That Never Was. But Sora never sees Riku (Past Traverse Town 1st Visit).

I'm guessing that Sora was captured after he and Riku sealed the Traverse Town Keyhole (First Visit). Since they did it together.


So what I'm saying is that Sora was asleep for most (if not all) of 3D, and the hardship he faced in his journey was all because of the Organization and Red-Eyes. The Nightmare Riku fights after he sees Sora's asleep.

Sora's adventure takes place in his dreams, and Riku's the only one who actually traverses the RoS.


That's at least one conclusion I've come to that makes some sense. Hope it does, and hope people understand that.
It makes some sense as to why the worlds appear to be "split" between Sora and Riku.

Country of the Musketeers is probably a dream of Disney Castle in the past(Why they didn't use this world in BBS to give Pete a good reason for banishment I will never understand),

I honestly wanted The Prince And The Pauper for BBS. The 3 Musketeers makes sense for Sora to experience, since "All for one and one for all" was kind of his, Donald's, and Goofy's motto.

 

[Hillboy]

Some of my understanding from what I've seen in playthroughs so far, is that Sora is asleep and that's why he and Riku don't share scenarios together.

It's that at one point in the beginning of the game, Xehanort's new Organization caught Sora and put him to sleep. So all the worlds that Sora goes through, are his dreams. Meaning that Riku is the only one that actually traversed the RoS and Sora was asleep the whole time in The World That Never Was.
So that gives a reason as to why Riku is the only one who became a Master, since Yen Sid says that Riku was the one who sealed all the Keyholes in the RoS, meaning Sora didn't.

In The World That Never Was, Braig says that Sora has been diving deeper into sleep since he started this journey, so the way I see it, is that with each "Keyhole" Sora sealed, he dove deeper into sleep.

Each time Sora dove into another world, he went deeper and deeper into sleep. I think of Inception with this idea, a dream within a dream, and the deeper the level, the more dangerous it becomes and the harder it is to escape.


Within the RoS, Riku is Sora's DE which means that Sora should exist within Riku's scenario and they should meet, which they do at The World That Never Was. But Sora never sees Riku (Past Traverse Town 1st Visit).

I'm guessing that Sora was captured after he and Riku sealed the Traverse Town Keyhole (First Visit). Since they did it together.


So what I'm saying is that Sora was asleep for most (if not all) of 3D, and the hardship he faced in his journey was all because of the Organization and Red-Eyes. The Nightmare Riku fights after he sees Sora's asleep.

Sora's adventure takes place in his dreams, and Riku's the only one who actually traverses the RoS.


That's at least one conclusion I've come to that makes some sense. Hope it does, and hope people understand that.
It makes some sense as to why the worlds appear to be "split" between Sora and Riku.




I honestly wanted The Prince And The Pauper for BBS. The 3 Musketeers makes sense for Sora to experience, since "All for one and one for all" was kind of his, Donald's, and Goofy's motto.

Wow, that makes total sense. Someone give this guy a medal!
At least we know now that Yen Sid wasn't just being a dick and he had a reason to fail Sora

 

[Sora2016]

Some of my understanding from what I've seen in playthroughs so far, is that Sora is asleep and that's why he and Riku don't share scenarios together.

It's that at one point in the beginning of the game, Xehanort's new Organization caught Sora and put him to sleep. So all the worlds that Sora goes through, are his dreams. Meaning that Riku is the only one that actually traversed the RoS and Sora was asleep the whole time in The World That Never Was.
So that gives a reason as to why Riku is the only one who became a Master, since Yen Sid says that Riku was the one who sealed all the Keyholes in the RoS, meaning Sora didn't.

In The World That Never Was, Braig says that Sora has been diving deeper into sleep since he started this journey, so the way I see it, is that with each "Keyhole" Sora sealed, he dove deeper into sleep.

Each time Sora dove into another world, he went deeper and deeper into sleep. I think of Inception with this idea, a dream within a dream, and the deeper the level, the more dangerous it becomes and the harder it is to escape.


Within the RoS, Riku is Sora's DE which means that Sora should exist within Riku's scenario and they should meet, which they do at The World That Never Was. But Sora never sees Riku (Past Traverse Town 1st Visit).

I'm guessing that Sora was captured after he and Riku sealed the Traverse Town Keyhole (First Visit). Since they did it together.


So what I'm saying is that Sora was asleep for most (if not all) of 3D, and the hardship he faced in his journey was all because of the Organization and Red-Eyes. The Nightmare Riku fights after he sees Sora's asleep.

Sora's adventure takes place in his dreams, and Riku's the only one who actually traverses the RoS.


That's at least one conclusion I've come to that makes some sense. Hope it does, and hope people understand that.
It makes some sense as to why the worlds appear to be "split" between Sora and Riku.




I honestly wanted The Prince And The Pauper for BBS. The 3 Musketeers makes sense for Sora to experience, since "All for one and one for all" was kind of his, Donald's, and Goofy's motto.

The only thing I don't get then is about Traverse Town. Because the characters in that world would then supposedly be traveling between the real Realm of Sleep and Sora's dream...I mean Joshua goes back and forth all the time, Rhyme goes from Sora's version to Riku's, and Shiki does the opposite. And I know they aren't just figments of Sora's dream, Joshua and Rhyme both explicitly talk about Sora to Riku...

 

[Marx15]

Wow, that makes total sense. Someone give this guy a medal!
At least we know now that Yen Sid wasn't just being a dick and he had a reason to fail Sora

Well I think I may have had it backwards actually......according to this right here.....

Spoiler Show

Riku never took on his individual path to the certification exam. The entirety of the game took place inside Sora's consciousness/deep dive state. Riku was also part of this (inside Sora's consciousness) in the form of a "Dream Eater." His role was to "eat" Sora's bad dreams. INCEPTION. This why Riku wears a "Dream Eater" insignia on his back. Riku had apparently unconsciously detected an insidious plot when a should-not-be-existing Ursula came to mess things up in the beginning of the game (Destiny Island sequence) and dove into Sora's dream instead of his own to save Sora.
This is somewhat of a strange explanation because Sora and Riku each have (for the most part) individual interactions with the characters with the exception of Joshua (The World End With You), the black coats, and one annoying dream eater boss. Joshua first hints that the parallel universes between Sora and Riku may not be entirely that different.
Maybe for Riku, this is all part of a penitential experience. While Sora struggles in his dream, Riku is struggling with his conscience. Ultimate, Sora fails (understandably) and Riku is successful.

It's saying that Riku is actually inside Sora's dream, and that's why he has the DE symbol on his back, to fight off the nightmare's in Sora's dream. *cough*cough* Red-Eyes *cough*cough*.

At the beginning he went into Sora's dream instead of his own, to try and protect Sora.

This way works out better, because it explains how Riku helped out Sora in Country of the Musketeers.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Well I think I may have had it backwards actually......according to this right here.....

Spoiler Show

Riku never took on his individual path to the certification exam. The entirety of the game took place inside Sora's consciousness/deep dive state. Riku was also part of this (inside Sora's consciousness) in the form of a "Dream Eater." His role was to "eat" Sora's bad dreams. INCEPTION. This why Riku wears a "Dream Eater" insignia on his back. Riku had apparently unconsciously detected an insidious plot when a should-not-be-existing Ursula came to mess things up in the beginning of the game (Destiny Island sequence) and dove into Sora's dream instead of his own to save Sora.
This is somewhat of a strange explanation because Sora and Riku each have (for the most part) individual interactions with the characters with the exception of Joshua (The World End With You), the black coats, and one annoying dream eater boss. Joshua first hints that the parallel universes between Sora and Riku may not be entirely that different.
Maybe for Riku, this is all part of a penitential experience. While Sora struggles in his dream, Riku is struggling with his conscience. Ultimate, Sora fails (understandably) and Riku is successful.

It's saying that Riku is actually inside Sora's dream, and that's why he has the DE symbol on his back, to fight off the nightmare's in Sora's dream. *cough*cough* Red-Eyes *cough*cough*.

At the beginning he went into Sora's dream instead of his own, to try and protect Sora.

This way works out better, because it explains how Riku helped out Sora in Country of the Musketeers.

That's correct since Ansem, Seeker of Darkness actually confirms all this when speaking with Riku after the Anti-Black Coat was defeated.
Ansem appeared in his brown robe at the "Dream Destiny Islands" and already messed things up for Sora.
Riku instinctively felt something was wrong and subconsciously acted to protect Sora.

To quote Ansem:

Ansem: A dream of a dream; a nightmare within a nightmare -- this whole time, you've been travelling within Sora's dreams. And now, like this, you will fall into the darkness within the darkness.

 

[Sora2016]

Well I think I may have had it backwards actually......according to this right here.....

Spoiler Show

Riku never took on his individual path to the certification exam. The entirety of the game took place inside Sora's consciousness/deep dive state. Riku was also part of this (inside Sora's consciousness) in the form of a "Dream Eater." His role was to "eat" Sora's bad dreams. INCEPTION. This why Riku wears a "Dream Eater" insignia on his back. Riku had apparently unconsciously detected an insidious plot when a should-not-be-existing Ursula came to mess things up in the beginning of the game (Destiny Island sequence) and dove into Sora's dream instead of his own to save Sora.
This is somewhat of a strange explanation because Sora and Riku each have (for the most part) individual interactions with the characters with the exception of Joshua (The World End With You), the black coats, and one annoying dream eater boss. Joshua first hints that the parallel universes between Sora and Riku may not be entirely that different.
Maybe for Riku, this is all part of a penitential experience. While Sora struggles in his dream, Riku is struggling with his conscience. Ultimate, Sora fails (understandably) and Riku is successful.

It's saying that Riku is actually inside Sora's dream, and that's why he has the DE symbol on his back, to fight off the nightmare's in Sora's dream. *cough*cough* Red-Eyes *cough*cough*.

At the beginning he went into Sora's dream instead of his own, to try and protect Sora.

This way works out better, because it explains how Riku helped out Sora in Country of the Musketeers.

Still makes me a little confused about the TWEWY characters switching around Oh well haha

 

[Hillboy]

Well I think I may have had it backwards actually......according to this right here.....

Spoiler Show

Riku never took on his individual path to the certification exam. The entirety of the game took place inside Sora's consciousness/deep dive state. Riku was also part of this (inside Sora's consciousness) in the form of a "Dream Eater." His role was to "eat" Sora's bad dreams. INCEPTION. This why Riku wears a "Dream Eater" insignia on his back. Riku had apparently unconsciously detected an insidious plot when a should-not-be-existing Ursula came to mess things up in the beginning of the game (Destiny Island sequence) and dove into Sora's dream instead of his own to save Sora.
This is somewhat of a strange explanation because Sora and Riku each have (for the most part) individual interactions with the characters with the exception of Joshua (The World End With You), the black coats, and one annoying dream eater boss. Joshua first hints that the parallel universes between Sora and Riku may not be entirely that different.
Maybe for Riku, this is all part of a penitential experience. While Sora struggles in his dream, Riku is struggling with his conscience. Ultimate, Sora fails (understandably) and Riku is successful.

It's saying that Riku is actually inside Sora's dream, and that's why he has the DE symbol on his back, to fight off the nightmare's in Sora's dream. *cough*cough* Red-Eyes *cough*cough*.

At the beginning he went into Sora's dream instead of his own, to try and protect Sora.

This way works out better, because it explains how Riku helped out Sora in Country of the Musketeers.

The amount of Inception in this game -.-
But yeah, I understand, I hope they explain this well in the game. Also, how is Sora dreaming of places and people he's never met?

 

[Sora2016]

The amount of Inception in this game -.-
But yeah, I understand, I hope they explain this well in the game. Also, how is Sora dreaming of places and people he's never met?

Maybe its more like he goes to the worlds, and then dreams about them afterwards when Riku then goes through them? Also yes, if Ansem literally says "a dream within/of a dream" in the English version I will laugh so much

 

[Marx15]

Still makes me a little confused about the TWEWY characters switching around Oh well haha

The thing about TWEWY characters, is that they all died except for Josh when the Heartless took their world.

Josh took the fragments (remains) of TWEWY cast and within Traverse Town, he was able to recreate them. And then there was something about how Rhyme has no memories because Josh used them as "portal" I believe, and they are also the cause of why Traverse Town had expanded. And that's how he can traverse between Sora and Riku's respective Traverse Towns, with that little gadget he has, created using Rhyme's memories.

Or something along those lines. All I remember is that Rhyme's memories were taken by Joshua to be used as a "portal".

Maybe its more like he goes to the worlds, and then dreams about them afterwards when Riku then goes through them? Also yes, if Ansem literally says "a dream within/of a dream" in the English version I will laugh so much

It's more than likely this. That Riku traverses Sora's memories of the RoS. Both of their adventures are similar, but not exact.