I think I'm inclined to find something to like in Vanitas because he has Sora's face. When Vanitas gets defeated in BBS and he reaches out for the broken X-Blade... I feel emotions.
Which villain would you want to get redemption?
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I think I'm inclined to find something to like in Vanitas because he has Sora's face. When Vanitas gets defeated in BBS and he reaches out for the broken X-Blade... I feel emotions.
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I want to see Nomura redeem himself. x)
I have a lot of respect for Ienzo atm since he is like so far the only Organisation member who isn't part of the RAX trio to not be a SOD for KH3 and is actually helping Sora this time. But I still wonder what happened with Dilan. Aeleus may be good now still and hasn't got the SOD treatment?
Its moments like those that I'm wondering if the game canon intends him to be a more complex character than what we have seen. It still annoys me that his character development got put in a fucking light novel that hasn't even been translated to english and may not be canon. You know things are bad when a side light novel makes characters better than the actual game canon. :\
Its moments like those that I'm wondering if the game canon intends him to be a more complex character than what we have seen. It still annoys me that his character development got put in a fucking light novel that hasn't even been translated to english and may not be canon. You know things are bad when a side light novel makes characters better than the actual game canon. :\
Would you be able to go into more detail about this? I want to know more about Vanitas as a character.
I wouldn't say he is a Bakugo, because Bakugo was never a villain and Vanitas ain't a shouty boy lol. I don't think he's like any character from MHA lol.
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I know I probs don't need to put spoilers but eh. Vanitas basically does get portrayed as someone that people can show empathy too but at the same time, he still does terrible deeds to Ven due to his negative emotions and is still a horrible person regardless. His story in the light novel is actually my favourite KH backstory and I'd argue he suffers the most if it's cannon, hell I love it more than Roxas's story in KH2 before Days existed.
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A Kingdom Hearts villain that I'd like to see redeemed.... hm.... Guess if I had to pick one I'd go with Demyx, just so we can see him around more I like him.
I know I probs don't need to put spoilers but eh. Vanitas basically does get portrayed as someone that people can show empathy too but at the same time, he still does terrible deeds to Ven due to his negative emotions and is still a horrible person regardless. His story in the light novel is actually my favourite KH backstory and I'd argue he suffers the most if it's cannon, hell I love it more than Roxas's story in KH2 before Days existed.
Oh wow. That's super intense. And I like that the backstory foregrounds the Unversed (who I don't think got enough attention in BBS). I hope elements of this backstory become relevant in the Monstropolis world in KHIII.
It really depends on how everything will develop throughout the whole of KH III's plot but Ven is certainly not obligated in any way to accept Vanitas as anything beyond an abusive enemy.
Going by the whole fuss made about the "brother" issue if I have got it right from several sources off the net the English subtitles in the trailer apparently didn't convey the actual meaning of the sentence very well in the first place as while "kyoudai" can indeed mean sibling or brother, the part coming before it "deki no warui" can be literally translated as "bastard", "ill-/poorly-made" or "misbegotten" which confirms my earlier interpretation when the trailer came out that Vanitas is literally doing the same he did during all of BBS which is insulting, demeaning and putting down Ven.
Thus, as of the current state of information and stance of characterisation, Ven has no logical reason to accept or forgive Vanitas in any form as he just keeps doing the same shit he always did before.
A further thing is, the more heinous deeds and hurting actions pile up, the more difficult forgiveness and acceptance should become when things go to their logical conclusion as it is simply not human to be an all-forgiving doormat.
Except that the Vanitas we know is a product of Xehanort's grooming and not something that was always "a side" of Ventus himself.
He was "empty" at the start like Roxas was so there is no "Ven side".
Vanitas as a personality, the views and opinions he exhibits didn't exist before the whole heart-split thing and Xehanort himself does point out that Ventus was already a good kid before everything went down.
Why would Ventus need to accept something that was created and developed by Xehanort?
That a small part of himself was used as the base for it doesn't really mean that he is obligated to take everything it was turned into and connect it with himself.
If you have a tumor or other infectious tissue you also seek to cut that part of yourself away to preserve your own health and do not keep it around.
Hearts can evolve and develop independent of each other as both his and Vanitas' hearts did for more than four years which is more than Sora and Roxas ever had and with them there is much effort done to establish them as their complete separate people.
Who says that he is actually genuinely helping Sora?
Xigbar and Ansem SoD speak about having "laid out a path" and Vexen too rambles about a "master plan" so everything Ienzo does might be done as part of a wider long term plan by Team Nort, no to mention that he seems to collaborate with Vexen and Demyx who obviously are Team Nort thanks to the eyes.
Granted, Ienzo may be not deliberately working towards Xehanort's goal but there are several people who are helping Xehanort without really wanting to.
Ansem SoD and Xemnas "looking forward" to Roxas' possible return is also suspicious.
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As for the general topic on redemption I'd say I care more about that any redemption arc for a villain is executed believable with enough logic behind it and also actually goes the full way through, not just a "villain shows remorse for 5 seconds and gets immediately forgiven and accepted by everyone on team hero"-quick variant which induces only eye-rolling.
The meaning of Redemption is that one has to pay back a debt.
If you hurt people, you owe them.
If you wanna redeem yourself, you make amends.
That is what it is all about and a simple verbal "I'm sorry" doesn't cut it depending on how much damage was done.
It requires genuine efforts on the villain's part without the heroes and/or victims having to pay any forgiveness or validation in advance and it is also not the villain who decides if their efforts are enough or not, but those they victimized.
That being said, I can theoretically see a possible redemption arc for almost everyone except Xehanort, and yes, that includes even Isa/Saix, Vanitas and Braig/Xigbar, although some of these I think would require more effort and a more convincing narrative than others for me to accept it as a genuine natural development.
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There's nothing wrong with the English dialogue. We don't need Vanitas to say he thinks Ven is shit to get the point across.
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I wouldn’t mind Pete getting some redemption. I could see a scenario where Maleficent turns on him and transforms him into Julius. Then, once he’s back to his normal self, he would defect from Maleficent. From Timeless River, I think he has the capacity to be good if something pushes him to change his ways. Pete getting redeemed could also open the door for another Mickey Mouse antagonist to appear post-KH3.
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Mortimer would be the perfect villain for Disney Town/Castle. Trying to steal the Million Dreams Award prizes or some scheme like that.
1. Isa/Saix - I don't really need to say much, he's changed because Xehanort and I think he could be saved, I just don't want Lea/Axel to be hurt if Isa/Saix dies and Isa was a chill dude in BBS - he was kinda like Riku and Lea was like Sora.
2. Demyx - The dude is just following orders back in the Original Org. the same might be said now but he might have a part of Xehanort in him now so he might actually like following orders now instead of not wanting to do them. I feel bad for him.
2. Demyx - The dude is just following orders back in the Original Org. the same might be said now but he might have a part of Xehanort in him now so he might actually like following orders now instead of not wanting to do them. I feel bad for him.
Not sure how much more redemption he really needs. He is more or less 100% a trusted ally at this point. Plus Kairi already forgave him for kidnapping her.
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You say that but you forget that this series shows that everybody has a second chance. I know you have a pretty strong bias towards Ven, so that definitely is coloring your opinion of Vanitas but you are literally shitting on a character that was created to serve with no choice in the matter, experiences endless pain that can only be expressed through the Unversed they send out into the worlds, and has known nothing but the "kindness" of an abusive old man who didn't see him as anything but a tool.
Except the trailers are showing this to us and nothing else. We don't know what Vanitas' story will look like in the game beyond what is shown. The trailers only show us what they want us to see, not what is actually happening. And you know better than anybody that Nomura makes his trailers either intentionally misleading or over-the-extreme spoiler-y while still being misleading.
Nobody said that Ven needs to unconditionally forgive Vanitas. Forgiveness and acceptance can happen in stages and not all at once.
I have no idea how you've come to this interpretation. Vanitas and Ventus have always been two halves of a whole. Ven's half was much weaker, in fact, because his Darkness was much stronger than the light side of him. It was what Xehanort was constantly trying to bring out of him. Both halves were empty when split apart. Vanitas and Ventus were BOTH empty shells when born, but whereas Ven was fading to his death, Vanitas was growing stronger from the pain and negativity that was growing within him.
Vanitas is exactly what Ven probably would have become if he had allowed the Darkness within him to rise to the surface and you know that.
Being a "good kid" doesn't mean that he didn't have a deep darkness within him or that he was this shining beacon of light for his whole life.
We know Ven from UX (barely) and then know him from once he becomes self-aware again in BBS. There is a huge gap between whatever happens that eventually leads him to Xehanort to when we first are acquainted with Ven in BBS. We can't know his character in that huge gap with certainty.
Jeez, Vanitas is a human being and Darkness is not evil, it is merely how it is used that makes it bad. It's like you've selected to forget this knowledge in the fact of your disdain over Vanitas. He wasn't a tumor. Ven didn't willingly cut Vanitas out himself. Xehanort ripped the Darkness from out of him. Ven didn't want to fall into the Darkness, but he wasn't begging to have it cut out of him.
Vanitas is only evil because he was fostered by Xehanort. Who knows what would have become of him if he had not been manipulated by him.
I was speaking symbolically. Accepting Vanitas is in part accepting what was inside of him, what he could have become if he had accepted that Darkness inside of himself.
I'm certainly not in favor of Vanitas nor do I think he deserves to be absolved of his own actions, but I think you are definitely making him out to be an active participant rather than what he really is: a brainwashed kid who had no option but to turn to his abuser.
People do shitty things and then they learn from them. If Vanitas is irredeemable in KH3, then oh fuckin' well. I don't think that will be the case, though, and I think Ven will be the first one to forgive him. And after that happens, Vanitas will appear as an anti-hero in the series. He won't be straight-laced, but he won't actively go out of his way to try and murder people or cause havoc and mayhem everywhere he goes.
Is Vanitas popular in Japan? If he is a fan favorite that could be reason enough to have him survive KH3. That was part of the reason Axel wasn't killed during KH2's prologue.
or maybe it would be roxas. roxas did have unfinished business with the organization.
I don't think he is. He's more like a Nomura favorite.
Well if he is a Nomura favorite he may want him to stick around. Just as long as he isn't one of the characters Nomura is sad isn't returning, lol.
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