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When do you realistically see this thing being released?



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Elysium

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Amazon is doing some system where you can request an invitation, which is supposed to help with scalpers or whatever who buy everything out only to turn around and sell it. I decided to do that since I thought my chances of finding it in stores is nil at this point and I want to have it in time for FFXVI this coming summer, so I gave it a try. (Well, that, and my fears the price might actually go UP rather than down after all this time... :X ) I still haven't received an invitation yet though, lol.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Amazon is doing some system where you can request an invitation, which is supposed to help with scalpers or whatever who buy everything out only to turn around and sell it. I decided to do that since I thought my chances of finding it in stores is nil at this point and I want to have it in time for FFXVI this coming summer, so I gave it a try. (Well, that, and my fears the price might actually go UP rather than down after all this time... :X ) I still haven't received an invitation yet though, lol.
Best of luck getting one before FFXVI comes out. I wish these game releasing companies would take into account that there is a PS5 shortage before releasing these big name titles and not everyone will get to play them. That's a problem I have with the industry right now.
 

Launchpad

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Best of luck getting one before FFXVI comes out. I wish these game releasing companies would take into account that there is a PS5 shortage before releasing these big name titles and not everyone will get to play them. That's a problem I have with the industry right now.
Oh, I think most companies have done this.. PS5 has like.. two exclusives made from the ground up for the system. Two years into the PS5's life cycle, that's almost unheard of, but it's because of the shortages.
 

Chie

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I also kinda doubt anyone but huge western devs actually want to develop for PS5 at all. Of course executives and publishers will tell you to anyway.
 

Launchpad

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I also kinda doubt anyone but huge western devs actually want to develop for PS5 at all. Of course executives and publishers will tell you to anyway.
Isn't developing for the PS5 kind of easy? I mean, just as easy as the PS4, but with the benefit of faster load times and less restrictions? I haven't heard of anything being archaic like the PS3 was. If it's creating assets that 'push' the PS5, graphically, then I get why some companies might be weary, but it seems like in situations like that, developers are just making the games look about the same as they would have on last generations hardware.
 

Chie

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It is an arbitrary distinction, but that's exactly why most devs wouldn't really care about the PS5 I think. Like, even if there weren't PS5 shortages, the PS4 userbase would still be vastly bigger and it's what the devs are used to developing for - the fact that the game's going to look and play exactly the same on either just makes there even less reason to care about the PS5.

This is especially true for the individual game directors who have been doing this since PS2 or earlier - everything would be easier for them if new consoles just stopped releasing at this point. I mean, even if you make it look the same as the previous generation, gamers are going to complain "why can't it look like [western AAA game]???" anyway. Gamer conception of this isn't "a developer is making games and putting it on the hardware convenient to them", it's "ps4 games look like this, ps5 games look like THIS". Hence why Kingdom Hearts 3 "needed" a new art style that is vastly uglier AND more expensive/time-consuming than the one they'd been using for the entire series before then. So it goes.
 

Launchpad

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It is an arbitrary distinction, but that's exactly why most devs wouldn't really care about the PS5 I think. Like, even if there weren't PS5 shortages, the PS4 userbase would still be vastly bigger and it's what the devs are used to developing for - the fact that the game's going to look and play exactly the same on either just makes there even less reason to care about the PS5.

This is especially true for the individual game directors who have been doing this since PS2 or earlier - everything would be easier for them if new consoles just stopped releasing at this point. I mean, even if you make it look the same as the previous generation, gamers are going to complain "why can't it look like [western AAA game]???" anyway. Gamer conception of this isn't "a developer is making games and putting it on the hardware convenient to them", it's "ps4 games look like this, ps5 games look like THIS". Hence why Kingdom Hearts 3 "needed" a new art style that is vastly uglier AND more expensive/time-consuming than the one they'd been using for the entire series before then. So it goes.
Oh. I don't agree with any of that!
 

Zackarix

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Oh, I think most companies have done this.. PS5 has like.. two exclusives made from the ground up for the system. Two years into the PS5's life cycle, that's almost unheard of, but it's because of the shortages.
I suspect that backwards compatibility may be working against the PS5 is this case.

If you're a third-party developer you're probably going to care more about selling the maximum amount of copies of your game and not PS5 copies specifically. So if your game can run on PS4 at all it makes sense to release it there and merely offer a performance upgrade for the PS5 version. After all, if a game can run on PS4 it can run on PS5 so you have access to both audiences.

So until games start getting to the point where they can't run on PS4 or Sony starts more bribing for PS5 exclusives cross gen titles will be the norm.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Oh, I think most companies have done this.. PS5 has like.. two exclusives made from the ground up for the system. Two years into the PS5's life cycle, that's almost unheard of, but it's because of the shortages.
I would just think they would prepare more PS5's for when big name titles start to be announced like FFXVI and KH4. Would they make a PS4 version if there is still a shortage going on?
 

Launchpad

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I would just think they would prepare more PS5's for when big name titles start to be announced like FFXVI and KH4. Would they make a PS4 version if there is still a shortage going on?
The shortage of consoles is why big titles are taking longer to come, not vice versa.
 

Liodin

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I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I don't understand how KH3 took 6 years to develop, with an engine change in between, and KH4 is going to take the same.

Nvidia's big leak gave it a September 2023 release date, and I would have believed it if it weren't for the fact that since the leak until now they have announced the release dates of FF XVI and FF 7 Rebirth.

KH4 is not what worries me, what worries me is if this will become the norm and that each game will take half a decade to release.

They need to start developing the games in parallel, if they aren't already and we just don't know (Re:Union pls).

Because it would be weird if there were no more "spin offs" or if every next KH, no mobile, had to be developed by the Osaka team.
 

Face My Fears

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I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I don't understand how KH3 took 6 years to develop, with an engine change in between, and KH4 is going to take the same.

Nvidia's big leak gave it a September 2023 release date, and I would have believed it if it weren't for the fact that since the leak until now they have announced the release dates of FF XVI and FF 7 Rebirth.

KH4 is not what worries me, what worries me is if this will become the norm and that each game will take half a decade to release.

They need to start developing the games in parallel, if they aren't already and we just don't know (Re:Union pls).

Because it would be weird if there were no more "spin offs" or if every next KH, no mobile, had to be developed by the Osaka team.
What's so wrong about taking 5 years to release a game? I'm not sure how long typical game development is, but that seems about right. As much as I would love a new KH game being churned out every 2 years, I don't think that's feasible.

Although, if they do spin-off games that reuse assets (like Days using Beast's Castle) then I can see stuff being churned out quickly. But again, I'm not an expert on that and I honestly would rather they take the time and make an amazing game rather than rushing out a substandard game (and burning out the employees working on the game).
 

NoWay

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What's so wrong about taking 5 years to release a game? I'm not sure how long typical game development is, but that seems about right. As much as I would love a new KH game being churned out every 2 years, I don't think that's feasible.

Although, if they do spin-off games that reuse assets (like Days using Beast's Castle) then I can see stuff being churned out quickly. But again, I'm not an expert on that and I honestly would rather they take the time and make an amazing game rather than rushing out a substandard game (and burning out the employees working on the game).
As far as I’m concerned, I don’t want KH3 to be the only new KH game I played in my 20s. Imagine waiting another 10 years for this arc to end.. I love KH and that’s why I really need more console games. I hate the fact that nowadays we only have mobile games between the main games. I’m repeating myself but I really love that the FF7 universe is getting with CC another full game only two years after the release of Remake. In 2023 we also may get to play Rebirth. SE is feeding the FF7 games. Why can’t we have a lower budget console game that runs on UE4?
I’d like to count Melody of Memory but considering the genre change I really don’t consider it part of the main and side story games..
 

Face My Fears

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As far as I’m concerned, I don’t want KH3 to be the only new KH game I played in my 20s. Imagine waiting another 10 years for this arc to end.. I love KH and that’s why I really need more console games. I hate the fact that nowadays we only have mobile games between the main games. I’m repeating myself but I really love that the FF7 universe is getting with CC another full game only two years after the release of Remake. In 2023 we also may get to play Rebirth. SE is feeding the FF7 games. Why can’t we have a lower budget console game that runs on UE4?
I’d like to count Melody of Memory but considering the genre change I really don’t consider it part of the main and side story games..
I'm pretty sure that KH4 and KH5 will all come out within the 2020s (KH5 probably in 2029 or 2030).

If we're lucky, I can see a spinoff between those two games.

Don't get me wrong, I want more KH games. I think Nomura's made up his mind (or maybe his mind was made up by someone else) that KH should just be numbered titles moving forward. I vaguely remember Nomura saying he had to choose between a Verum Rex spinoff or KH4.

Looking back, would people have preferred getting KH3 instead of BbS, Days and reCODED? Also the way that games were made have seemingly changed now (like no handheld consoles), so KH games will just always have to be big budget stuff.
 

Chie

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What's so wrong about taking 5 years to release a game? I'm not sure how long typical game development is, but that seems about right. As much as I would love a new KH game being churned out every 2 years, I don't think that's feasible.
This really only applies to the most AAA of western AAA*. It shouldn't apply to Kingdom Hearts which is still the exact same type of game as it was on PS2, just with fancier graphics/movement. Even if you think of another "big name Japanese game" like Death Stranding, it entered full development in 2017 and came out in 2019. That's not its entire development time, but ~3 years total is still much faster than I think most people would assume.

It's curious how many people seem to have internalized half a decade as "about right". I often talk about the inflated budgets (both money and time) of games on modern consoles/with modern "standards", but I think the fact that we live in a post-Covid era also changes peoples' memories of what "normal" is. We've lived the last three years on a planet in which everything takes even longer than it did before, which could already be a long time for the aforementioned reasons. But that's not how it has to be forever.

I'd also like to point out the number of JP game directors (particularly contemporaries with Nomura, from the PS2 era) who have spoken repeatedly (pre-Covid too) about trying to find ways to make games faster, to train young staff faster, because that is how the medium evolved in the past. Usually it doesn't work. But they remember that it once did work, and in their memories of that world, they could expect to create more than two games in an entire decade.

*The most AAA of western AAA is also where you find the worst stories about crunch, so if you're thinking "a longer development time = better for the employees", that's sadly not what the data reflects. The problem seems to lie in the overly-high-budget project itself. It's also probably bad for employee morale to be doing grunt work on one project forever.
 

Face My Fears

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This really only applies to the most AAA of western AAA*. It shouldn't apply to Kingdom Hearts which is still the exact same type of game as it was on PS2, just with fancier graphics/movement. Even if you think of another "big name Japanese game" like Death Stranding, it entered full development in 2017 and came out in 2019. That's not its entire development time, but ~3 years total is still much faster than I think most people would assume.

It's curious how many people seem to have internalized half a decade as "about right". I often talk about the inflated budgets (both money and time) of games on modern consoles/with modern "standards", but I think the fact that we live in a post-Covid era also changes peoples' memories of what "normal" is. We've lived the last three years on a planet in which everything takes even longer than it did before, which could already be a long time for the aforementioned reasons. But that's not how it has to be forever.

I'd also like to point out the number of JP game directors (particularly contemporaries with Nomura, from the PS2 era) who have spoken repeatedly (pre-Covid too) about trying to find ways to make games faster, to train young staff faster, because that is how the medium evolved in the past. Usually it doesn't work. But they remember that it once did work, and in their memories of that world, they could expect to create more than two games in an entire decade.

*The most AAA of western AAA is also where you find the worst stories about crunch, so if you're thinking "a longer development time = better for the employees", that's sadly not what the data reflects. The problem seems to lie in the overly-high-budget project itself. It's also probably bad for employee morale to be doing grunt work on one project forever.
Well then I'm hoping Nomura can churn out KH4-6 in the span of 2023-2030.
 

Alexxio M.

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My hope is March 2024 my expectation is holiday season 2024- March 2025 it all depends on when FF7 Rebirth comes out need to make sure both games are able to breathe and one doesn’t overshadow the other.
 

Chaser

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KH4 having playable, polished sections already means it is farther along than KH3 was at this stage.
Absolutely. Even though the reveal trailer was on Luminous, it was an incredibly under-developed and short gameplay segment. KH4 already has a 3-4 minute trailer with well designed environments and models.

Both reveals trailers seem to have gameplay that isn't accurate to what the final product will be, but KH3's was just flipping on a wall whereas KH4 showed off some actual mechanics that will be in the game.

We didn't get a glimpse into what KH3's gameplay would be like until D23 2013, and even then that was just a concept. Shibuya in 4 is waaaay further than that, and even way further than the UE4 re-reveal in 2015 with Tangled (which showed actual gameplay that'd be in the final game).

While we don't know when they properly started work on KH4, it's been 8 months since the trailer and they should have had it transitioned from Unreal Engine 4 to Unreal Engine 5 by now. Hopefully things are going smoothly over in Osaka. Earlier this year I was hoping for 2023 but unless they decide to wedge it into August - November in between the Final Fantasy games, I don't see it launching then so I'll go with 2024 at this stage.
 
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