What's everyone's thoughts on the minneapolis riots?

[OneDandelion]

You seriously believe there is no centralized group effort to antifa? So everyone in Portland over the past few years just happened to show up at the same time or happened to hear about it on twitter? Maybe they don't have a hierarchy like the government or the catholic church, but that doesn't mean individual groups with hundreds or thousands of contacts don't exist.

If you apply a label to yourself that has a strong correlation with looting, rioting, and intimidation as well as support that group effort then you are a part of the problem.

Calling yourself anti-facist and then engaging in facist tactics is classic Orwellian double think. That label doesn't give them a pass any more than a gang of murderers part of "the happy friendship club" doesn't give them a pass. Anyone who publicly labels themselves a KKK member will automatically be associated with the KKK because of the actions associated with the KKK, and anyone labeling themselves "antifa" should be associated with the dominant actions committed by that group in recent years. Whether or not they have a publicly available phone number to call doesn't matter.

 

[2 quid is good]

As if anyone needed a reason to point a finger at socialists after WWII. Not to say that any political party can't be taken advantage of, but the socialist party of Nazi Germany engaged in the same sort of "anti-facist" rhetoric that antifa spouts with the same self righteous indignation justifying "punching Nazi's"

Yes, socialism was such a driving force of the Nazis that in the General Election that took place in 1945 in the UK, a Socialist party was elected for the first time ever. Weeks after the war was over. In one of the worst affected countries.

Socialism and communism became vastly popular in the direct aftermath of WW2, this is well documented.

 

[OneDandelion]

Yes, socialism was such a driving force of the Nazis that in the General Election that took place in 1945 in the UK, a Socialist party was elected for the first time ever. Weeks after the war was over. In one of the worst affected countries.

Socialism and communism became vastly popular in the direct aftermath of WW2, this is well documented.

I guess you completely missed the point. Socialist and communist ideologies are hotbeds for indoctrination. They have great appeal to young people and the "socialism" promised by the NSADP was naturally not that different from the socialism offered by any other socialist/communist party. It starts off idealistic at first, but becomes more and more radical as the party requires another group to blame when things don't go their way.

Of course there are tons of people who can intellectually argue over the pros and cons of Socialism/Capitalism and in an ideal society maybe socialism and communism could work, but imo they run contrary to human nature and will always fail; and they'll always result in a great tragedy because a dictator will always blame a scapegoat over taking responsibility for themselves.

 

[Elysium]

I wouldn't even be surprised if Trump declares a national emergency and tries to postpone or outright cancel the presidential elections so he can stay in office for the foreseeable future.

Oh, I'm sure he's been thinking of doing that for the last three years. My guess is he'll use the Coronavirus as the excuse for trying it, which might explain why he spent two months not doing anything when it started.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

Oh, I'm sure he's been thinking of doing that for the last three years. My guess is he'll use the Coronavirus as the excuse for trying it, which might explain why he spent two months not doing anything when it started.

To be honest, I think Trump underestimated the virus and was gonna do a herd immunity approach. Florida was his pet project of that, seeing as how Ron DiSantis is pretty much a mini Trump.

 

[Dandelion]

You seriously believe there is no centralized group effort to antifa?

There's not. It's shorthand for a movement that was adopted post-2016 specifically to create confusion around the idea of being anti-facist and malign anyone talking about being against facism automatically. It's a classic misdirect. It's like saying Racism is a single united group. Which, I mean, you could argue that with the current government but i'm not.

So everyone in Portland over the past few years just happened to show up at the same time or happened to hear about it on twitter? Maybe they don't have a hierarchy like the government or the catholic church, but that doesn't mean individual groups with hundreds or thousands of contacts don't exist.

Seriously, I have no idea why we're engaging here. It's clear you're entrenched in whatever self-righteous viewpoint you have and debates are shown to not work. There aren't enough words in the world for anyone to convince you that you need to care about other people if you've decided that all of this is a coordinated effort by a group that isn't coordinated because it's not a REAL FUCKING GROUP.

If you apply a label to yourself that has a strong correlation with looting, rioting, and intimidation as well as support that group effort then you are a part of the problem.

I've got some bad news for you about white people.

 

[OneDandelion]

I've got some bad news for you about white people.

I don't label myself "white". I don't consider it a defining factor of who I am and I don't know any white people who would. Leftists do tend to make it their identity however, so I guess you would think that. But even if you want to play the genocidal history card, white people don't come in first. Slavery? White people don't come in first. Attempting to shame people based on their skin color is pathetic.

btw if you dont think theres a point in a debate then just dont bring up the subject. Im not forcing you to use your brain.

 

[Deleted member]

gotta say, onedandelion outing themselves as a white half-cop right-leaning bootlicker that gets more worked up about square making a mediocre game than they do about police brutality is probably the least surprising thing about this thread

 

[OneDandelion]

gotta say, onedandelion outing themselves as a white half-cop right-leaning bootlicker that gets more worked up about square making a mediocre game than they do about police brutality is probably the least surprising thing about this thread

taking direct shots now, cool. Yup I like to complain about SE driving games I used to love into the dirt and I have opinions on philosophy and politics. But I'm not trying to be a punching bag for a bunch of assholes so I'll just leave if my opinions are too controversial for your big brain.

 

[Absent]

Anyone saw the threats bunkerboy made during the rose garden conference? The stuff he said reminded me of a certain scene...

 

[kirabook]

Anyway, a report from an independent autopsy was indeed homicide caused by asphyxiation due to pressure on his neck and back. I can't believe even after his death, they implied it was because he had pre-existing conditions and maybe he was on some kind of substance. How low can you go? Just tell the truth. That man was killed by those 4 police officers and they should take responsibility for it. They've done nothing but set the country on fire (again) trying to cover for this handful of bad guys.

Back to the topic of Antifa, here's how you can tell the difference between an organized structured organization and a random group of people. Who is the founder of Antifa? Who is the current leader? Who is calling the shots, telling people where to go protest and when? Where is the official merchandise? How does one join Antifa? What are their goals? What's their mission statement, other than "against fascism? Can you join it? Is there a hierarchy you can climb? How does their funding work and how do you get paid?

I can answer most of these questions about let's say... the KKK. Or something more modern, the Proud Boys. They've got "leaders". "Official" places to get information and what their schedule is. Places to meet, a weirdo mission statement. Now those are what I call organizations.

You can maybe answer this question about BLM, but even that is quite a bit decentralized. They have founders and a lot of people associated with it, but a specific leader, someone calling the shots? A little less so. Still, I would consider BLM more of an organization than antifa has ever been.

There are no leaders of Anfita. There isn't any set goals other than shouting how much they hate fascism. They know when to meet because some local people put out a call on social media to show up at X place at X time so they can walk from Y to Z. You "join" by deciding to show up, and then you go home and go to sleep because it ain't an organization. You don't get money. You don't get assigned a role. Your name isn't on a huge list of contributing members. You can't put it on your resume. It's just not like that.

Giving Trump and his goons the free reign to label whatever they don't like as "antifa" sets a bad precedent. Look at it a different way. People either love or Obama or hate Obama. (imo, he is overhyped and honestly, did not do enough to improve the country when he had the power to do it. People have their rose tinted glasses entirely too tight when it comes to him). Let's pretend Obama decided, "You know what ladies and gentlemen? These last few days, people have come around calling themselves 'tea partiers'. They burned pinatas of me and called me an ape and threatened my life. Therefore, I am going to label them terrorist. Anyone who is conservative- I MEAN, anyone who is associated with the tea partiers will face the law!"

Doesn't that sound freakin' stupid?

Like I said before, Antifa is like some kind of personal boogeyman. People are protesting and you don't like it? ANTIFA THUGS WHO WANT TO TAKE OVER AMERICA! Want to improve the social safety net a bit especially during a pandemic? COMMUNIST SOCIALIST STALIN CUBA VENEZUELA SYMPATHIZERS. GEORGE SOROS!

It's like a broken record, it's truly amazing how good right wing media and groups are able to tell their followers exactly what to say. They've honed their craft down to a science.

 

[Darkspawn]

How can anyone disagree that more training and higher pay for officers would not help curb violence and build rapport between the police and the public? There’s no excuse why police officers can’t go through at least a one-two year program, the equivalent of an AA degree. How does it make sense that it takes longer to be licensed to cut hair than it does to become a police officer?

And I don’t buy that it would cause an officer shortage. If we give the potential officers the resources the resources they need through education and compensation, police work can become a reputable job worth aspiring toward. But if existing officers think it’s too much hassle to go through more training and think it’s unfair for them to have more oversight, they don’t need to be in a position of power anyways.

Also, any American still supporting Trump after his actions Monday is a traitor in my eyes.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Trump threatening to use the military is exactly among the lines I expected this to run.
German news site "Der Spiegel" actually titles it "Trump spielt Diktator" which translates as "Trump is playing dictator":

Militär gegen Demonstranten: Trump spielt Diktator

US-Präsident Donald Trump droht den Protestierenden mit der Armee - gegen den Willen der Bundesstaaten und womöglich illegal. Doch die Demonstranten lassen sich nicht einschüchtern.

www.spiegel.de

You know who also uses the military and associated secret/military police against their own citizens? Erdogan in Turkey, Assad in Syria, Putin in Russia, Kim Jong Un in North Korea and Xi Jinping in Mainland China.

You don't even need to compare with fictional figures like Palpatine from Star Wars or historical totalitarian leaders like Stalin or Hitler.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

Putin in Russia

Speaking' of which:

Russia’s Highest Court Opens Way for Putin to Rule Until 2036 (Published 2020)

The ruling, slammed by Kremlin critics as a sham, approves constitutional changes to free the Russian president from term limits.

www.nytimes.com

Guess ol' Putin got tired of interchanging between Prime Minister and President these past years (he's been at it since 1999, changing from one position to another in a back and forth matter).

But I don't think Trump will unleash the Armed Forces on the States. He just said that to look tough to his base and one of two things will happen:

1.) The Democrat Governors will look bad by letting the riots happen and he'll point fingers at the Dems for not being able to keep their people safe

2.) The Democrat Governors will use their National Guards to control the rioters and Trump will applaud him for taking his recommendation.

In both scenarios, Trump looks good in his base. Trump is just playing politics.

 

[2 quid is good]

It's shocking when many so called third world countries have not resorted to the tactics that Trump has today.

I was honestly shocked watching that "speech", it felt like the beginning of a fascist regime. Ultimately, its an escalation, and the protestors certainly won't de-escalate. I'm sure nobody needs me to spell out where this is heading....

It is not normal for a country's armed forces and law enforcement to shoot their own civilians.

 

[PStuder12321]

I'm very much an outsider as I don't even live in America, but the parallels of the situation are startling to an event I did live through, the London riots, which also started with the death of a black man at the hands of police. However, while I'm sure we have had police brutality cases, we haven't had another death like that, but in America it feels like a new person dies every day.

I was still a child when the london riots happened and the world was a very different place in 2011, but I think the biggest difference here is in the uk, there was no focus and no goal in mind, there was no real rallying point, it was just kids tearing down authority. And it was literally kids, people my age were getting 6 months sentences for taking a bottle of water. You were getting arrested just for being outside, none of our places of worship were safe from people who Co opted the initial point of the riots. But that doesn't seem like something that's happening in Minneapolis.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the whole matter, to me it feels like the last straw on the camels back for a community that's had to handle too much

Personally... I hide away from this kind of drama and advise others to do the same... not much good comes from this kind of stuff and most riots that happen in america while may have good ideals behind it the riots them self are just to grab attention or an excuse to loot. I've lived in two cities that have rioted and both riots were just attention grabbers and excuses to loot. Not worth paying attention to. just hope they get shut down quick and try to remain positive.

 

[2 quid is good]

Personally... I hide away from this kind of drama and advise others to do the same... not much good comes from this kind of stuff and most riots that happen in america while may have good ideals behind it the riots them self are just to grab attention or an excuse to loot. I've lived in two cities that have rioted and both riots were just attention grabbers and excuses to loot. Not worth paying attention to. just hope they get shut down quick and try to remain positive.

Drama is when some people insult each other and start giving out backhanded comments. Drama is when you catch somebody cheating and then lying about it. Drama is when you get people trying to start an argument.

This isn't drama, it's real life, and real people are dying. It's fine to not support the rioting, nobody approves of private property damage, but there is so much more at play here.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267811637811187712

Trump is basically gonna stand by and watch as the world burns and either point fingers (reprimanding Governors that don't intervene) or pull a thumbs up (congratulating Governors that intervene with the National Guard).

He literally swept everything towards the Democrats just for the sake of politics.

 

[kirabook]

That's been his strategy lately yeah. He's the president and is pretty much THE top dog of the country. The responsibility of handling covid-19 and the current situation falls upon his shoulders. You can't handle these kind of huge events from state to state, you need someone at the very top who can help them all coordinate or make major sweeping changes to fix what is wrong.

It shows how weak he is. When the going gets tough, he crawls in a corner and whines instead of trying to coordinate and plan. I remember back when Obama is President he'd always be on twitter talking about if he was in charge he'd do this or that and have it all wrapped up in a pretty bow.

Well Trump? You're in power. You have the senate and the supreme court. Democrats in the house will pretty much bend down and lick your boots if you pretend you agree with them. You could be doing all the things you claimed you would do, but no. But you're in a bunker whining about how it's someone else's fault.

 

[SweetYetSalty]

I'm furious that those other three officers haven't been arrested yet. That was murder and they are still roaming free. If the colors were reversed you know good and well all four would have been arrested day one. As a person of color myself, this entire thing has filled me with hate for the ones in charge. Racism has always been here, but since Trump's been president it's gotten bolder and bolder. And police brutality has reached the breaking point. They need better training or we need a new system altogether. I don't want to lose faith in the police altogether but this is really bad.

And speaking of Trump, threatening the use of military against Protestors? Having police attack protestors just to hold a bible afterwords? I think I'll go mad if we get four more years of this.