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What's everyone's thoughts on the minneapolis riots?



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OneDandelion

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Your post did not make it seem that way. And perhaps it should be considered that if they can't perform their job well consistently under high pressure then they should not be in that role. Doctors are consistently under high pressure too and by and large manage fine. You act as if every single day is a potential shootout for a policeman. I'm sure that's not the case, and if it is, perhaps America should take a long look at its gun culture.
shootout? probably not, fight? potentially. I'm done, i dunno what roles you guys have played in your lives, but I know a lot of cops and I'm just telling you straight up that they're already being pushed to their limits. If you're demanding more it's too much, cheers.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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I'm aware, I'm an engineer. You're the one saying you want cops to have a college degree, I'm just telling you its not practical and wouldn't change anything except severely limit the number of cops that are available

No it wouldn’t. That knowledge would serve as a basis for better serving the public. Mental health training would teach them how to better assist the needs of mentally disabled people or mentally ill citizens. Law from the ground up would teach them about the history of the laws they enforce and how these laws better or hinder society. Psychology to understand how the mind works, how the mind changes when it is under stress, how to cope with stress, how to handle engaging with various types of people.

Maybe we should limit the amount of cops that are available. 50~ new recruits every month for a total of up to about 600 new recruits in a 12 month period in the LAPD sounds like too many cops to me. Factoring in the laterals, reinstatements, and other agencies that go through the department, that is probably more than 600 recruits.

Why are we recruiting 600 recruits a year? Why do we need so many officers being cranked through a 6 month crash course on how to be a cop?

Let me tell you one thing about their training. They are understaffed in those training divisions. They can’t handle that amount of recruits. They can’t focus on teaching them all adequately in such a short period of time. I don’t trust that. There are some knowledgeable and skilled training officers that train these recruits but 6 months is not enough. The training months after are not enough. The seminars and the on-job training scenarios are not enough. The sensitivity training is not enough. They don’t take it seriously.

We NEED more barriers to entry. They need to be better educated and better prepared.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Trump declared ANTIFA a terrorist organization. I'm afraid the noise and discussion are gonna center on them, everyone will forget about Lloyd and we'll still have to deal with systemic racism and police abuse.
 

Zephyr

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Why does nobody in power want to hold the cops accountable for George Floyd's death? It's frustrating.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Why does nobody in power want to hold the cops accountable for George Floyd's death? It's frustrating.
it's easier to play politics than to actually administrate a State/City government. Plus cops are generally organized, any sort of reform they don't see with good eyes, you've got thousands of votes against you.
 

kirabook

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Hopefully BLM and other organizations centered around this can keep the focus on what this is really about, police brutality and injustice.

Gosh, some people are so easily distracted. "It was antifa! Antifa antifa antifa!" Like saying their name multiple times will summon them or something. Their own personal boogeyman. Not every protest you don't like is freakin' antifa, just like every protest I don't like is not the nazis or KKK
 

OneDandelion

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Trump declared ANTIFA a terrorist organization. I'm afraid the noise and discussion are gonna center on them, everyone will forget about Lloyd and we'll still have to deal with systemic racism and police abuse.
The riots have already taken the attention away from George Lloyd. And does anyone really think things will change that much from all of this, if at all? I mean honestly, what are the solutions being brought to the table here? Even if you increase the time cops spend at the police academy it will take years for those new cops to graduate and replace the cops who are currently on the streets. Am I missing something here?

Imo the most powerful effect of all this is that its going to make cops afraid to arrest black people at all, justified or not. If thats what your goal is then congrats I guess.

Are you saying I'm not allowed to admire peaceful protests of MLK because majority of white people didn't 70 years ago? Because of the color of my skin? Seems an awful lot like trying to invalidate an opinion based on skin color to me
 
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Zephyr

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Are you saying I'm not allowed to admire peaceful protests of MLK because majority of white people didn't 70 years ago? Because of the color of my skin? Seems an awful lot like trying to invalidate an opinion based on skin color to me
I mean, if understanding the message behind it is lost, then I suppose?
 

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I'd read that white supremacists infiltrated the protests in some ways to carry out violence in order for the protests to be smeared and dismissed as "violent" in general. But there are always going to be some people who use a protest to their own selfish advantage to get away with stealing things.

As for the person earlier in the thread who said people should use their vote to protest... Well, that would work if the vote wasn't rigged. That's how the white supremacist in the White House is there now as it is. You should always vote anyway in the hope the numbers will be too big for them to suppress in the ways they'll attempt, but there's always the possibility for them to squeak their way into power. Too bad people don't learn. If the public could've remembered what happened to Gore in 2000, maybe they wouldn't have taken it for granted Hillary Clinton would be president in 2016 and played with their vote like nothing in the world matters at all. The world turned into a hellscape quicker than anyone would've thought, didn't it?

As for rioting itself... Nobody supports rioting, but it's not surprising violence happens when these things keep happening and so much peaceful protesting has accomplished nothing whatsoever. And even worse when the politicians in power do nothing but fan the flames because turning everything into a race war is beneficial to them, when a real leader attempts to bring peace and calm the rage as much as can feasibly be done. What scares me is that this plays right into monsters like Trump's hands, because it allows them to get racist white people worked up over the "violent" minorities. And if he wins re-election, things are only getting worse from here...
 

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In the past few days I've seen so many videos and stories of police brutality... It's horrendous. I saw a video of police shooting at civilians who were standing in their own front gardens, I can't imagine how Americans currently feel like
 

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Looks like they caught one of the arsonist. 25 year old 3%er (white nationalist group)

Obviously, these riots are huge. I'm sure some of the rioters who actually care about Floyd are causing damage thinking they're helping or out of some mislead belief that it's "revenge". We can debate their actions all day, but these kinds of people will always exist.

Do I think all the people causing damage are white nationalist? No. But I 100% believe there is a concerted effort to take advantage of the chaos to try and paint peaceful protestors in a bad light and they're not people who care about Floyd or police brutality.

All of yesterday during the day there were so many peaceful demonstrations that went sour due to a few mysterious protestors giving an excuse for the cops to attack (though honestly, based on a lot of videos I saw, police attacked without an excuse). It's interesting that the protests get more violent at night during the darkest hours when a lot of the peaceful protestors have gone home.
 
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Sephiroth0812

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Trump repeatedly blaming "Antifa" or a left-wing "conspiracy" without delivering any proof has precisely the aim to distract and point at a scapegoat, that's literally his usual modus operandi whenever something goes wrong or not the way he personally wants.

That's probably also why some far-right groups try to hijack the protests and start to stir up violence, looting and similar offenses, to gain a pretext for "counter violence".
Under the pretense of "restoring law and order" they can then move to "clean house" how they imagine it. Wouldn't be the first time such tactics are used in order to justify state-sanctioned violence.

Knowing history, this eerily reminds me of the Reichstag Fire in February 1933 which was also blamed on "leftists, communists and socialists" and then used as a pretext to suspend civil rights as preparation to purge people with different political views.

I wouldn't even be surprised if Trump declares a national emergency and tries to postpone or outright cancel the presidential elections so he can stay in office for the foreseeable future.

Those who are perpetrating or supporting the violent side of the protests while not being in league with far-right groups are however just playing into their hands.

Hopefully the "checks and balances"-System in the US is still intact enough to prevent such a possible worst-case outcome.
 

Ballad of Caius

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Trump repeatedly blaming "Antifa" or a left-wing "conspiracy" without delivering any proof has precisely the aim to distract and point at a scapegoat, that's literally his usual modus operandi whenever something goes wrong or not the way he personally wants.
This is what happens when you "preside" over a party over a country. Trump's behavior is just him appealing to his voters, rather than to directly attend the issues and resolve them.

Knowing history, this eerily reminds me of the Reichstag Fire in February 1933 which was also blamed on "leftists, communists and socialists" and then used as a pretext to suspend civil rights as preparation to purge people with different political views.
Correct. Even further back, the US instigated the Hispanic-American War in 1898 by exploding a US ship, pointing fingers to the Spaniard Crown for the sake of taking possession of Spain's islands (Puerto Rico, Cuba, and some others). So the US is not new to these self-damaging dirty tactics.

I wouldn't even be surprised if Trump declares a national emergency and tries to postpone or outright cancel the presidential elections so he can stay in office for the foreseeable future.
That would be even too extreme for him, I doubt it'll happen.

Hopefully the "checks and balances"-System in the US is still intact enough to prevent such a possible worst-case outcome.
Nope. The Senate is pretty much in "collusion" with the Executive Branch. We've got the House of Representative, but just for partisan reasons. Though something is better than nothing.
 

kirabook

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Is it really too extreme for him though? Not too long ago some of his supporters were memeing about how he should remove 2 term limit rules and republicans in office were suggesting because people have been "so against Trump", he hasn't been able to be president properly so his term should be extended. :/

And the fact that he labeled antifa, which is a decentralized group of people and not an actual organization as a terrorist organization? It's like saying Anonymous is a terrorist organization when the entire point of Anonymous is that it's not an organization, just random people using technology to seek what they think is justice. Anyone can be "Anonymous", anyone claiming they are a part of "Anonymous" probably aren't.
 

A

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I don't even know where to start but lets get this started

These nationwide protest are needed but the co-opting and hi-jacking from groups like antifa, the proud boys, and boogaloo boys just to cause mayhem and destruction is counter productive and needs to be dealt with swiftly. The media is doing a good job of hiding that fact and pointing the fingers at BLM knowing they aren't the ones agitating and engaging in mindless violence like that but that's another point. This only started because people refuse to hold officers accountable for their actions the same way we hold civilians for theirs, why people think LEO's are above the law and above being reprimanded will be their own undoing

Also I dont care how much training the police receive if a person has implicit racial bias and displays malevolent behavior towards another person because of this they need to be removed and their badge stripped. They know this but they like to play this game where they throw stones and hide their hands. The only real solution is to deunionize the police force and get rid of their pensions and lets see how much of them are really going to continue displaying their fuck shit behavior just becuase they have a badge and a gun

I'm surprised this board is still active and actually talking about this in civil uncondescending manner, even though this board is presumably left wing/liberal oriented, I've seen a lot members here in the past display some very racist sentiments especially akin to that of a KKK member and the mods doing nothing about it but this place is beyond its glory years and that is a different discussion for another time
 

OneDandelion

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Is anyone seriously saying that antifa is not playing a role here, at the very least, on the west coast? Antifa has literally been plaguing Seattle, Portland WA, and Oakland CA for years; instigating riots, blocking traffic and shouting the same 'anti-establishment' / anarchist rhetoric that has been overwhelmingly apparent during these recent riots.

They are absolutely a group of people who have experience organizing and exploiting protests in order to commit domestic terrorism. The same tactics being used by looters right now, and it's been documented happening in portland for years.

Knowing history, this eerily reminds me of the Reichstag Fire in February 1933 which was also blamed on "leftists, communists and socialists" and then used as a pretext to suspend civil rights as preparation to purge people with different political views.

As if anyone needed a reason to point a finger at socialists after WWII. Not to say that any political party can't be taken advantage of, but the socialist party of Nazi Germany engaged in the same sort of "anti-facist" rhetoric that antifa spouts with the same self righteous indignation justifying "punching Nazi's"
 
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Ballad of Caius

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I presume the term limit bit would require a US Constitution amendment. That would need 2/3 of both Houses (Senate and Representatives) and then 2/3 of each State Legislative Assembly.

Any sort of Executive Order to somehow extend POTUS term would be readily defied in the Courts.
 

kirabook

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Somebody here is missing the point about antifa. I'm sure some of the people who label themselves "antifa" are also misguded and think this at all helps the anti-fascist sentiment, but it doesn't. Burning down a building doesn't stop fascism unless it's the headquarters of nazis or something.

Unlike organizations such as the KKK, there is no actual organization. No one becomes a wizard or a dragon. They aren't assigned ranks and roles. There's no number you can call to reach them. They don't have nationwide meetings every Tuesday to decide where they'll be protesting next. Antifa, which means anti fascist, is in fact, the idea that a group of people are against fascists, and therefore, they decide they are "antifa" for the day. You can't slap a label on that like, "Aha! This totally registered non-profit organized group that actually doesn't exist but I'll pretend it does are now terrorist!!! We shall put resources into infiltrating their established weekly meetings that don't exist and sneak into their headquarters that also doesn't exist to take them down!"

That is why it's stupid to label them an organization, the point it is disorganized and decentralized. Even if you find a group of 5 people who consider themselves antifa and arrest them, there are dozens and dozens of them elsewhere. And hell, the next day, maybe they won't call themselves antifa, but something else. Do you not see how pointless it is?

Compared to right-wing movements where they're always so organized with a clear hierarchy and talking points, left wing movements are more disorganized and "free", which is good and also bad. You can point to their leaders (Trump, Ben Shapiro, Spencer though he's kinda disappeared huh) whereas on the left (the left, not liberals), it's not really like that. There's not one person that everyone listens to, not even Bernie Sanders.

Anyway, as for the law regarding Trump trying to extend his term, is this a case that could go all the way to the surpreme court? Do you think they'll abide by the law and throw it out, or do you think they'll actually rule in his favor? Honest question, I don't really trust our checks and balances anymore. So many have fallen through. All those decades and centuries of law feels like it's nothing but paper. Moreso than ever.
 
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