• We have brought back Future of KINGDOM HEARTS as our main Kingdom Hearts section. Discuss any projects including Phase 2 developments, the rumored Disney Plus series, all TWEWY-related news, theories about the future of Kingdom Hearts, and any general topics in this section. For anything related to Kingdom Hearts Memory of Melody, please discuss it in the KINGDOM HEARTS Memory of Melody section.
  • Although unrelated to Kingdom Hearts, we are aware that there might be fans of The Last of Us on our forums. We ask that you please keep all spoilers for The Last of Us 2 spoiler-tagged. Any untagged spoilers will result in a temporary ban from the site.

What's everyone's thoughts on the minneapolis riots?



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

kirabook

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
1,322
Awards
0
Location
RoL
Anyway, I hope justice is served and the man serves time for all the lives he's unjustly taken.
 

OneDandelion

Active member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
352
Awards
0
What I do know is this person has already lied once. I would not trust them again especially when other medical professionals are refuting them.

No government official or journalist pointed to antifa being present, and I'm not American but a quick search tell me Portland is a 26 hour drive to Minneapolis. Not sure what the correlation is here. As such, I'm not inclined to believe in this until I see video evidence or a reputable third party claim the information. Just because you say Antifa are there, doesn't mean I have to believe you.
Really? You trust "medical experts" (i can only assume on twitter) who havent done the autopsy... over the person who actually conducted the autopsy based on a conspiracy theory that he lied about epstein? Thats incredible

There are factions of antifa across the states. Portland has just been an easy target in recent years because the mayor puts up with their bullshit, but its obvious theyre the ones who destroyed portland last night so to pretend antifa isnt involved here is ridiculous
 

2 quid is good

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
565
Awards
1
Location
LHR to LYP, with a dash of LHE
  • Mog Boss
Really? You trust "medical experts" (i can only assume on twitter) who havent done the autopsy... over the person who actually conducted the autopsy based on a conspiracy theory that he lied about epstein? Thats incredible

There are factions of antifa across the states. Portland has just been an easy target in recent years because the mayor puts up with their bullshit, but its obvious theyre the ones who destroyed portland last night so to pretend antifa isnt involved here is ridiculous
For someone who staunchly believes that there's a left wing conspiracy at play during these riots, I'm astonished you think Epstein wasn't killed
 

OneDandelion

Active member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
352
Awards
0
For someone who staunchly believes that there's a left wing conspiracy at play during these riots, I'm astonished you think Epstein wasn't killed
I dont care enough about this to "staunchly" believe anything. I never said epstein wasnt killed either, but the autopsy never disproved his "murder" to begin with
 

kirabook

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
1,322
Awards
0
Location
RoL
I forget that reporter's name, but every now and then he speaks some sense.

As for the idea about being too hard for one side and denying the other outright? Listen, I'm borderline apathetic. I can't.... take in too much because I will literally have an emotional break down. I've discussed a bit of the situation with my dad and a friend on the protest, but that's it. I can't watch that video in full, it's too much. In that guy, I see very man in my whole family potentially being killed for absolutely nothing. Every single time something happens, I get more and more worried about something happening to my little brother. He's a bit of an idiot yeah, but does he deserve to die? No way.

I don't think it's a lot to ask that police officers need to be held to the same standard as everyone else. Actually, they need to be held to an even higher standard than an average citizen, we pay them to protect us and carry a gun, not to impose fear.

My path forward, something I have strongly supported and advocated for years is to improve police training. In the US, hair dressers require more training to get a license to do hair than a police officer needs to go from trainee to patrolling the streets. There are thugs pretending to be police officers that need to be outed for the health and safety of society.

All officers need training on how to deal with the mentally and emotionally ill. It has been a problem for too long that they shoot first and ask questions later when it comes to people with disabilities and illness. No officer should be on the streets without that.

All officers need better training on dealing with medical conditions and the likes. If someone says they can't f*cking breathe, then get the hell off of them and treat them for potential onset of medical issues like a heart or asthma attack.

All officers need training on how to handle combat without the use of their guns. Hand to hand combat meant to subdue their targets without lethal force.

Standards need to be raised. If officers don't pass certain kinds of tests (such as tests for anger and distress to see what they do under pressure), then they are not fit to be officers. Whatever tests they're using now are useless.

Imo, those are not difficult requests. It should be nationwide. But you know what? Let's take Baltimore for example. Their police stations were evaluated and they were found to basically be corrupt and completely off the rails. They were ordered to make changes to make policing safer and to rebuild connections with the community. Pretty much just as changes were being made (changes that would take years to make an improvement), Cheeto won the presidency and his administration threw all those plans away.

Like, what can you even do? You demand the police get better. They refuse. They resist. They're ordered to change by one guy, but as soon as the next guy comes in, they gladly throw those plans away.

How can't you be frustrated by that? How many people will die because the police thinks they can do no wrong? No one of any race or nationality will lay down and take a beating forever. It's just common sense.
 

2 quid is good

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
565
Awards
1
Location
LHR to LYP, with a dash of LHE
  • Mog Boss
Is that not above the average wage? Like, I'm sure it's almost double the average wage.

Frankly, if that's asking too much of law enforcement, then it should be paid better and be more stringent. I think they get paid enough though

Edit: how sad that asking the people in charge of law and order to be competent at best is asking too much.
 

OneDandelion

Active member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
352
Awards
0
you get what you pay for. My dad was a cop for over 20 years and all of his friends are talking about quitting now. If you think you can improve the quality of police without increasing their incentives to work then good luck i guess, they already hate body cameras and the extra "training" that they're receiving now

You can get paid the same for moderately skilled work and you don't have to put up with nearly as much hassle
 

2 quid is good

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
565
Awards
1
Location
LHR to LYP, with a dash of LHE
  • Mog Boss
I find this bs imo. Teachers get paid far less than that and have to be trained in basic first aid as well as dealing with special needs. If you're in a public service role you should be prepared to deal with the public. I think American police have had it too good for too long and don't want to be put to more rigorous standards than previously. Let them leave then. A police force shouldn't have people not prepared to do the bare minimum to ensure they deal with the public safely
 

kirabook

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
1,322
Awards
0
Location
RoL
If all this training requires more funds, then do it. Same with teachers, firefighters, all our service men and women in the country.

If money is the only thing stopping you from demanding more from law enforcement, then you're priorities are whack and I don't think you actually care at all if things continue the way they are.

They aren't mall cops, they're supposed to be enforcers of the law, so they need to act like it, get trained for it, or get the hell out. And yeah, that means putting more money towards said training.

I have a ton of respect for firefighters and they get paid maybe a little more than teachers do. I hope they stay safe while putting out fires during he rioting.
 

OneDandelion

Active member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
352
Awards
0
I find this bs imo. Teachers get paid far less than that and have to be trained in basic first aid as well as dealing with special needs. If you're in a public service role you should be prepared to deal with the public. I think American police have had it too good for too long and don't want to be put to more rigorous standards than previously. Let them leave then. A police force shouldn't have people not prepared to do the bare minimum to ensure they deal with the public safely
"bare minimum" continues to increase until the expectations are impossible to meet. Even if becoming a cop required a bachelors degree in addition to the academy it would take 6 years or more to meet your expectations. I don't know if you've been to college in america, but its expensive and the standards aren't that high to begin with. And there is already a ton to cover at the academy but most of what cops learn comes from being on the job.

You don't understand that cops are human and they will naturally make mistakes. It is impossible to 100% ensure mistakes won't happen. Even with extra training, retaining information and actually implementing what you've learned on active duty takes many many years. If a person couldn't graduate until your standards are met you're probably looking at 8 years of schooling and it would be impossible to maintain a steady supply of new police at that rate.

Not to mention being a cop is a high risk job. and it's not just "serving the people" either. They are required to know law, and are required to file detailed police reports. They put themselves in danger every time they respond to a call. And on top of that it's a thankless job. Look at how they're being treated right now.

I respect fire fighters a great deal as well, but they don't have near the same level of responsibility. Cops should be seen in our country as heroes, but they aren't. They're taken for granted and hated because a few of them make bad decisions or do terrible things. Instead who is propped up on a pedestal? It's athletes, actors, singers, political and religious activists.

You'll believe what you want to, but many cops resent their jobs. A lot of them go into it wanting to do good. I wanted to be a cop since I was a kid but my father actively discouraged me and now I can make up to 90k a year doing simple engineering work with little to no stress

and by the way, the pace these riots are going if someone shoots a cop theres a good chance they're going to get away with it because of the chaos. George Floyd will have justice, the police that die as a result of this may not.
 

Oracle Spockanort

a female bisexual POC so think before you post
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
33,438
Awards
54
Age
29
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
Lol I worked with cops for two years. They are clueless when they start and clueless when they finish their 6 months. I wouldn’t trust them with my life. I’ve never seen a bunch of more scatterbrained people in my life. I’ve had grown adult men ask me what size pant they should buy for their uniform. GROWN ADULT MEN.

Cops should have to go to college and get a degree and go through another two years of training with ample training in deescalation, mental health, psychology, criminology, and law in the same way we teach lawyers before they are fit for the field.

If every other field requires years of training, there is no reason why cops should be exempt from this as well.

I find this bs imo. Teachers get paid far less than that and have to be trained in basic first aid as well as dealing with special needs. If you're in a public service role you should be prepared to deal with the public. I think American police have had it too good for too long and don't want to be put to more rigorous standards than previously. Let them leave then. A police force shouldn't have people not prepared to do the bare minimum to ensure they deal with the public safely
Not to mention teachers have to go to school for years before they can actually teach, and if you want to teach higher levels you have to get more degrees and maybe get paid $40k in K-12 and $60k as a college professor.
 

kirabook

Bronze Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
1,322
Awards
0
Location
RoL
And the minute a teacher is involved in a small scandal they're almost always booted out as soon as possible unless they've reached tenure, and even that doesn't protect them.
 

2 quid is good

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
565
Awards
1
Location
LHR to LYP, with a dash of LHE
  • Mog Boss
"bare minimum" continues to increase until the expectations are impossible to meet. Even if becoming a cop required a bachelors degree in addition to the academy it would take 6 years or more to meet your expectations. I don't know if you've been to college in america, but its expensive and the standards aren't that high to begin with. And there is already a ton to cover at the academy but most of what cops learn comes from being on the job.

You don't understand that cops are human and they will naturally make mistakes. It is impossible to 100% ensure mistakes won't happen. Even with extra training, retaining information and actually implementing what you've learned on active duty takes many many years. If a person couldn't graduate until your standards are met you're probably looking at 8 years of schooling and it would be impossible to maintain a steady supply of new police at that rate.

Not to mention being a cop is a high risk job. and it's not just "serving the people" either. They are required to know law, and are required to file detailed police reports. They put themselves in danger every time they respond to a call. And on top of that it's a thankless job. Look at how they're being treated right now.

I respect fire fighters a great deal as well, but they don't have near the same level of responsibility. Cops should be seen in our country as heroes, but they aren't. They're taken for granted and hated because a few of them make bad decisions or do terrible things. Instead who is propped up on a pedestal? It's athletes, actors, singers, political and religious activists.

You'll believe what you want to, but many cops resent their jobs. A lot of them go into it wanting to do good. I wanted to be a cop since I was a kid but my father actively discouraged me and now I can make up to 90k a year doing simple engineering work with little to no stress
Are you aware of how teachers are taught basic first aid? It's a couple of hours in one day. That's it. They get certified, then they get re certified the next year. It's half a day of training. Those are not impossible standards. It doesn't require a degrees worth of knowledge to undertake, in fact 16 year olds are allowed on these coursed and can be certified. I laid out very simply that two things that should be standard for police officers to do that wouldn't take any time at all.

Not sure where you are living that it requires 8 years to learn basic first aid. And I'm sorry if you feel people aren't being respected enough but this is far beyond a few isolated incidents now. Just a few minutes ago I watched a video of an NYPD cop car driving through a peaceful crowd.

Doctors get paid slightly higher than police and yet they are also carrying out a public service, and deal with far more than they should but take it regardless. Because they are carrying out a public service. Teachers don't get the respect they deserve but still persist in their duties generally as best as they can, because they're carrying out a public service. If you are serving the people, then you need to make sure you have their best interests at heart, not your own.

The public sector is not a place to go for self fulfilment
 

OneDandelion

Active member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
352
Awards
0
Lol I worked with cops for two years. They are clueless when they start and clueless when they finish their 6 months. I wouldn’t trust them with my life. I’ve never seen a bunch of more scatterbrained people in my life. I’ve had grown adult men ask me what size pant they should buy for their uniform. GROWN ADULT MEN.

Cops should have to go to college and get a degree and go through another two years of training with ample training in deescalation, mental health, psychology, criminology, and law in the same way we teach lawyers before they are fit for the field.

If every other field requires years of training, there is no reason why cops should be exempt from this as well.

Not to mention teachers have to go to school for years before they can actually teach, and if you want to teach higher levels you have to get more degrees and maybe get paid $40k in K-12 and $60k as a college professor.
engineers are the same way. Why? Because theory doesn't mean shit when it comes to practicality. There are an inumerable amount of things you learn about in academy and college that you would never ever have to use in the field. That's the way it goes. But if you think you know better than I guess thats that, vote for who you vote for.

Are you aware of how teachers are taught basic first aid? It's a couple of hours in one day. That's it. They get certified, then they get re certified the next year. It's half a day of training. Those are not impossible standards. It doesn't require a degrees worth of knowledge to undertake, in fact 16 year olds are allowed on these coursed and can be certified. I laid out very simply that two things that should be standard for police officers to do that wouldn't take any time at all.

The public sector is not a place to go for self fulfilment
Cops are also certified in basic first aid, i don't understand your point. There is a difference in teaching someone first aid and conditioning officers to perform well in a high stress job at a reasonable rate.

thanks for lecturing me on self fulfillment. I was in the navy before i came to private sector by the way.
 

Oracle Spockanort

a female bisexual POC so think before you post
Staff member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
33,438
Awards
54
Age
29
Location
California
Website
twitter.com
  • Put That Thing Back Where It Came From
  • 15th Anniversary
  • Just Short of the Mark
  • Advanced Chain of Memories
  • Beauty Within
  • No Name
engineers are the same way. Why? Because theory doesn't mean shit when it comes to practicality. There are an inumerable amount of things you learn about in academy and college that you would never ever have to use in the field. That's the way it goes. But if you think you know better than I guess thats that, vote for who you vote for.
Engineers go to school for 5 years my dude. That’s before they get a job. They learn on the job and so does everybody else in any field, but cops only go to train for 6 months without any degrees outside of a HS/GED degree. How is that even equivalent?
 

OneDandelion

Active member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
352
Awards
0
Engineers go to school for 5 years my dude. They learn on the job and so does everybody else in any field but cops only go to train for 6 months without any degrees outside of a HS/GED degree. How is that even equivalent?
I'm aware, I'm an engineer. You're the one saying you want cops to have a college degree, I'm just telling you its not practical and wouldn't change anything except severely limit the number of cops that are available
 

2 quid is good

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
565
Awards
1
Location
LHR to LYP, with a dash of LHE
  • Mog Boss
Cops are also certified in basic first aid, i don't understand your point. There is a difference in teaching someone first aid and conditioning officers to perform well in a high stress job at a reasonable rate.

thanks for lecturing me on self fulfillment. I was in the navy before i came to private sector by the way.
Your post did not make it seem that way. And perhaps it should be considered that if they can't perform their job well consistently under high pressure then they should not be in that role. Doctors are consistently under high pressure too and by and large manage fine. You act as if every single day is a potential shootout for a policeman. I'm sure that's not the case, and if it is, perhaps America should take a long look at its gun culture.

Congratulations on being in the Navy I guess, although I thought it was called marines in America, I must be mistaken. The Royal Navy is a bit of a joke in and of itself, and growing up in and around military towns has left me with a deeply critical view of the military. It took a long while for me to get to the point where I wouldn't automatically shit on those institutions, and I severely doubt I'll ever be able to trust them after having such an insiders view
 
Top