What's everyone's thoughts on the minneapolis riots?

[Zettaflare]

Have they even arrested the other officers involved in Floyd's death? I know one was already apprehended

 

[2 quid is good]

To add to the conversation WRT organisations and whether or not outside influences are occurring - they are. But it isn't Antifa, its white nationalists

https://twitter.com/x/status/1266741059163389952

https://twitter.com/x/status/1266742843722403840

 

[kirabook]

They haven't. Only that one officer has been arrested and charged. Last I heard he had a $500,00 bail, but because of how bail works, he'd only have to post $50,000 to get out. Not sure if he has yet, wouldn't be surprised if he did so that he can go hide like a coward.

As for outside forces, it's almost a guarantee. Multiple protestors recorded well coordinated white men dressed in black setting up buildings and starting fires and then they just disappear. They aren't actually part of the protest at all. I wish they would get caught so that it can be proven.

 

[2 quid is good]

As for outside forces, it's almost a guarantee. Multiple protestors recorded well coordinated white men dressed in black setting up buildings and starting fires and then they just disappear. They aren't actually part of the protest at all. I wish they would get caught so that it can be proven.

This is the part that immediately stood out to me from almost day 1 of these riots, as it was very different to what I expected

 

[OneDandelion]

My thesis professor made a great statement about the history of violence in the process of social change.

She said that throughout history we can look at many revolutions and find some sort of violent battle connected to it. Look at the French Revolution. Look at the American Revolution. Look at the Civil War. Look at the Arab Spring. We look at history and no change is ever so easy as voting and making that change.

Change comes from hard fought battles, violent and peaceful. The peaceful protests can help but it is the violence the world responds to.

No, but it was a major catalyst in making the biggest wave.

Honestly, this is an overwhelmingly pessimistic and simplified view of the world in my opinion. It is so, so easy to label your political opposition evil in order to dehumanize them and to place yourself on a pedestal, but nothing is ever so conveniently black and white.

Of course war brings change. If there was no desire for change then there would be no necessity for war - but not all war brings positive change. Even war that we believe to be positive now may have been started and ended for reasons we don't understand - because history is written by the victors. And more than that, there are plenty of examples of meaningful change in history that were brought about through peaceful means.

More than violence, the world responds to truth. Truth resonates with people, and hypocrisy and ignorance are the ultimate calling cards of despotism

The "go vote" argument is hilarious, as if gerrymandering doesn't exist. Take a fucking civics/sociology class.

sociology is pseudoscience.

 

[kirabook]

Where in that post you quoted did she call the opposition evil? That's a straw man.

 

[OneDandelion]

Where in that post you quoted did she call the opposition evil? That's a straw man.

I was generalizing, not making a statement that @Oracle Spockanort does that. With respect to her post that is often what happens when violence/war begins. People generalize - they say all of the jews were bad, or all of the police are bad, all black/white people are bad... etc, in order to dehumanize/place themselves on a pedestal in order to justify their actions - whether that be rioting/war/whatever.

 

[kirabook]

But the post has little or nothing to do with morality or who is good or bad. She is stating major changes aren't made by hippies singing kumbaya in the forest hoping someone will listen. It also might need people aggressively defending the forest, tying themselves to trees, and fighting back the opposition trying to force them out.

That's why the example of MLK, Malcolm X, and the other people who created a perfect blend of peaceful and violent brought about civil rights is fitting.

It's time to accept that for every peaceful protest that gets ignored or destroyed by the people in power, a violent one will take its place.

If we humans were more intelligent and empathetic as we pretend to be, we wouldn't even need to vote out ineffective, racist, terrible people out of office, they would've never come to power in the first place.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

There is a problem with racism in the United States of America. Whether or not it is blown out of proportion doesn't change the fact that we have jurisdiction in the US with systemic racism in all faces of society: government, business and cultural.

Another issue is systemic police brutality. It's tiring to have to hear news from several States/Cities talk about police brutality against people of any race and age. Here in Puerto Rico our force is under a federal oversight because of police brutality. It baffles me how PR, as a measly piece of property pertaining to the US, has a more attentive approach to the police brutality issue that the US and all the economical and political resources it had.

Observe something? Lots of systemic issues. It's gonna blow up one way or another. And this is coming from someone that never believed in violent mass demonstrations. But sometimes, it has to be done.

Addressing the "go vote" argument: Democrats treat minorities like political franchises and Republicans don't care.

By the way, it's not like the catalyst for the US independence was a riot.

 

[kirabook]

How much tea does it take to flavor a harbor?

 

[OneDandelion]

But the post has little or nothing to do with morality or who is good or bad. She is stating major changes aren't made by hippies singing kumbaya in the forest hoping someone will listen. It also might need people aggressively defending the forest, tying themselves to trees, and fighting back the opposition trying to force them out.

That's why the example of MLK, Malcolm X, and the other people who created a perfect blend of peaceful and violent brought about civil rights is fitting.

It's time to accept that for every peaceful protest that gets ignored or destroyed by the people in power, a violent one will take its place.

If we humans were more intelligent and empathetic as we pretend to be, we wouldn't even need to vote out ineffective, racist, terrible people out of office, they would've never come to power in the first place.

My point is in these situations there is very little room for nuance or understanding. Maybe the reason why change isn't made by hippies singing kumbaya is because they don't represent the majority to begin with.

Minority groups can claim victim status all they want it doesn't automatically make anything they do or believe right no matter how much they want to believe thats the case. You can't just demand that the cop who killed George Floyd be charged with 1st degree murder because our culture doesn't operate that way and throwing temper tantrums across the country isn't going to change that.

Minority groups within a society can't effectuate change without appealing to the broader majority and if they try to start a war they will lose simply because if it comes down to you and me, I'm going to choose self preservation. The reason that racism has declined so much in 70 years is because the majority of white people allowed it to dissipate and that is the truth. Continuing to call white people racist who had nothing to do with the racial inequalities of the past is only going to provocate a larger race war.

These riots are not a good look for the black community, and unfortunately (I personally believe) it was white antifa cells that are causing most of the destruction so I don't necessarily hold the black community responsible but others will. We'll see how well it worked in November when Trump gets reelected, so go ahead and say the riots are justified because it really isn't going to affect me personally

 

[kirabook]

Ah, so your true opinion comes out. I was waiting after all the strawmans you were throwing out. You believe minorities have been lying about the behavior of the police for decades. It's made up. It's overblown. It's not "that" bad. It's not worth getting angry over it. We should politely ask them not to do it again and move on.

If most people, like you, don't believe it's true, then it must not be true. How is that a nuanced opinion? I mean, it's not like once upon a time slavery and segration was the majority opinion in this country and if you were against it, you were seen as a lunatic anarchist.

That cop should be charged with first degree murder and then it's the court's job to figure out whether it's true or not. That is how the justice system works. To be honest, with a manslaughter charge, he's more likely to be convicted. It's easier to prove you killed someone accidentally than on purpose, after all. Maybe that was the way to go to put that dangerous man behind bars. He should never be a police officer again.

It's too bad if it's not a "good look" on our community. Like I said, I don't support the riots, but if you can't understand why people are rioting or how this keeps happening over and over and over again, then you're a lost cause. If no changes are made through peace or violence, then this will never stop. End of story.

And in the future, if there's another suppressed group, they will do exactly the same thing if their voices are ignored.

P.S: I don't care about antifa, please take your right wing talking point somewhere else. Neither you nor I know who the mysterious guys dressed in black are setting fires to building. Pretending like you do is very high horsey of you.

 

[OneDandelion]

Hilarious you accuse me of straw manning you after the post you made. I see nuance is completely lost on you. Believe whatever you want. I personally dont care if the riots stop or not, i think people should take more responsibility in defending their businesses anyway.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

The cop got a third degree murder charge because it's easier to prove than first degree. From the video alone, the only available evidence, we can't conclude that "is both willful and premeditated" (FindLaw, 2019)1

Yes, this officer deserves that the law lay all the weight on him, but there's a due process.

Source:
1. https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/first-degree-murder-overview.html

 

[OneDandelion]

Yes, this officer deserves that the law lay all the weight on him, but there's a due process.

And double jeopardy. If the autopsy shows that he did not die from asphyxiation he could reasonably walk away from 1st degree murder on grounds he did not intend to kill

 

[2 quid is good]

The person who did the autopsy on Mr Floyd was the same person who did it for Epstein. But I suppose that means he's trustworthy and we should trust the results.

Also, I'm sure earlier in the thread I provided evidence straight from government officials that if there is any organisation in relation to rioting it was coming from white nationalists - decidedly not Antifa.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

I'm gonna share a personal sentiment that may be a bit conspiracy theory-ish:

Everyone should try to be as compassionate and empathetic as possible. The narrative nowadays excludes converge, a meeting point between both ends.

Yes, racism is bad.
Yes, police brutality is bad.
Yes, the destruction of private property is bad.

But have you seen anyone trying to encompass every sentiment and provide clarity and a path to follow? Someone saying: all of this is bad, but we need to stand united.

No. Each side has their narrative that cancels out each other, with the end result being: nothing.

All of this chaos for nothing.

Just constant civil unrest and the division of the republic.

You've got half of the electorate against Trump and the Republicans. You've got another half against Biden and the Democrats. And these halves all offspring into social issues: one half supports the cause, another half just wants to cancel the entire fight because of the riots.

It's like people nowadays have been conditioned to hate instead of supporting.

All of these constant bad news and disproporciate coverage of certain news and the appeal to the masses emotions. That has a long term effect on people's psyche, man.

 

[2 quid is good]

All of these constant bad news and disproporciate coverage of certain news and the appeal to the masses emotions. That has a long term effect on people's psyche, man

It does and I'm exhausted by it, I think some of that is due to losing so many people recently because of corona/general ill health, and the never ending barrage of bad news. I'm just really tuckered out by the whole thing.

And no, I don't think I have seen a person of power say something along the lines of unity, but I've seen a lot of my peers say it so maybe that counts for something. Or not

 

[OneDandelion]

The person who did the autopsy on Mr Floyd was the same person who did it for Epstein. But I suppose that means he's trustworthy and we should trust the results.

Also, I'm sure earlier in the thread I provided evidence straight from government officials that if there is any organisation in relation to rioting it was coming from white nationalists - decidedly not Antifa.

And you think george floyd had enough clout for the person who did the autopsy to lie about it?

Just because a few government officials say there are white nationalists in the crowd does not mean antifa arent also there. Antifa has a history with messing up portland, would you also try to say they werent present there last night? They are definitely involved , its just a question of how much

 

[2 quid is good]

And you think george floyd had enough clout for the person who did the autopsy to lie about it?

What I do know is this person has already lied once. I would not trust them again especially when other medical professionals are refuting them.

Just because a few government officials say there are white nationalists in the crowd does not mean antifa arent also there. Antifa has a history with messing up portland, would you also try to say they werent present there last night? They are definitely involved , its just a question of how much

No government official or journalist pointed to antifa being present, and I'm not American but a quick search tell me Portland is a 26 hour drive to Minneapolis. Not sure what the correlation is here. As such, I'm not inclined to believe in this until I see video evidence or a reputable third party claim the information. Just because you say Antifa are there, doesn't mean I have to believe you.