What's everyone's thoughts on the minneapolis riots?

[2 quid is good]

I'm very much an outsider as I don't even live in America, but the parallels of the situation are startling to an event I did live through, the London riots, which also started with the death of a black man at the hands of police. However, while I'm sure we have had police brutality cases, we haven't had another death like that, but in America it feels like a new person dies every day.

I was still a child when the london riots happened and the world was a very different place in 2011, but I think the biggest difference here is in the uk, there was no focus and no goal in mind, there was no real rallying point, it was just kids tearing down authority. And it was literally kids, people my age were getting 6 months sentences for taking a bottle of water. You were getting arrested just for being outside, none of our places of worship were safe from people who Co opted the initial point of the riots. But that doesn't seem like something that's happening in Minneapolis.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the whole matter, to me it feels like the last straw on the camels back for a community that's had to handle too much

 

[OneDandelion]

Honestly I've been watching it all pretty closely and its unbelievable how well coordinated the whole thing is. If it continues at the rate its going either the cops or the rioters are going to fire a gun at each other and the whole thing is going to go down hill really really fast in the worst possible way.

Theyre even at the white house now, this is crazy. I generally try to stay away from the realm of conspiracy theory but its hard for me to believe that this isn't a funded/coordinated effort

 

[Perkilator]

If you're going to protest, it should be done peacefully, no matter how harsh the conditions.

That said, George Floyd deserved better than to be flat-out SUFFOCATED by these asshat cops.

 

[disney233]

If you're going to protest, it should be done peacefully, no matter how harsh the conditions.

That said, George Floyd deserved better than to be flat-out SUFFOCATED by these asshat cops.

Agreed. I get it. What those cops did to Floyd was unforgivable...but like...how about NOT taking it out on every single fucking cop in the goddamn country?

 

[2 quid is good]

Agreed. I get it. What those cops did to Floyd was unforgivable...but like...how about NOT taking it out on every single fucking cop in the goddamn country?

I understand where you're coming from, but also try and flip it around. I have seen far far far too many viral videos of stories such as Mr Floyd's, most of which don't ever get mainstream. Surely that has to stop?

Peaceful protests have only taken us so far. Gandhi wasn't the catalyst for Indian independence, no matter how much people try to claim that. He certainly did affect some things, but the truth is the real change came from revolutionaries and freedom fighters, like subhas chandra bose, Ram Muhammad Singh etc, and the continued pressure of violence in Bengal and across the country. In fact, Gandhi's vision for India never became a reality and he was deeply upset by that. But I digress.

Just like there are many decent cops in America who don't agree with their colleagues actions, there were decent British soldiers who personally may never have had any negative impact. But the truth is the organisations both represent are rotten from the inside out, and real change never really happens on the surface, it has to happen on every level. It isn't enough to just arrest one man when an entire system is so corrupt. A time comes where everything must be flushed out and be made to start again. Revolution isn't nice, and living in the direct aftermath of it is not fun, but it's the future that matters.

The UK would never have had a free, socialist healthcare, and any number of socialist reforms, if the devastation of WW2 wasn't so wide reaching and impactful. Just to give an idea of the scale, there are only 50 settlements in the UK that don't have a war memorial, pretty much all of these are villages. In France, its 1. Change that benefits the people only arises after hardship I'm afraid to say.

And of course, I deeply condemn any destruction of private property, that should always be condemned because regular people don't deserve that. But take an example from a restaurant owner in Minneapolis who's place was burnt, he said (paraphrasing) he could always rebuild, but justice needed to be served.

It's never so black and white in my opinion, even if it's easy to paint it as such. If these cops are certain they're not part of the problem then they should go on strike and show solidarity.

 

[disney233]

I understand where you're coming from, but also try and flip it around. I have seen far far far too many viral videos of stories such as Mr Floyd's, most of which don't ever get mainstream. Surely that has to stop?

Peaceful protests have only taken us so far. Gandhi wasn't the catalyst for Indian independence, no matter how much people try to claim that. He certainly did affect some things, but the truth is the real change came from revolutionaries and freedom fighters, like subhas chandra bose, Ram Muhammad Singh etc, and the continued pressure of violence in Bengal and across the country. In fact, Gandhi's vision for India never became a reality and he was deeply upset by that. But I digress.

Just like there are many decent cops in America who don't agree with their colleagues actions, there were decent British soldiers who personally may never have had any negative impact. But the truth is the organisations both represent are rotten from the inside out, and real change never really happens on the surface, it has to happen on every level. It isn't enough to just arrest one man when an entire system is so corrupt. A time comes where everything must be flushed out and be made to start again. Revolution isn't nice, and living in the direct aftermath of it is not fun, but it's the future that matters.

The UK would never have had a free, socialist healthcare, and any number of socialist reforms, if the devastation of WW2 wasn't so wide reaching and impactful. Just to give an idea of the scale, there are only 50 settlements in the UK that don't have a war memorial, pretty much all of these are villages. In France, its 1. Change that benefits the people only arises after hardship I'm afraid to say.

And of course, I deeply condemn any destruction of private property, that should always be condemned because regular people don't deserve that. But take an example from a restaurant owner in Minneapolis who's place was burnt, he said (paraphrasing) he could always rebuild, but justice needed to be served.

It's never so black and white in my opinion, even if it's easy to paint it as such. If these cops are certain they're not part of the problem then they should go on strike and show solidarity.

I get it...but if burning people the same race as you, and putting the innocent at risk by having entire cities shut down is the ONLY solution to this war (it's not even a riot anymore. It's literally war.) Then I don't want part of it. And I'm the very race people are protesting for. Not every answer has to be solved through uplanned and irrational rage. People stopped taking it out on the police at this point, now they're just threatening white people in general. This is probably a stupid rebuttal compared to your reply, but...this whole thing doesn't sit well with me. This 'riot' no reason to be THIS bad, in this day and age.

 

[2 quid is good]

I get it...but if burning people the same race as you, and putting the innocent at risk by having entire cities shut down is the ONLY solution to this war (it's not even a riot anymore. It's literally war.) Then I don't want part of it. And I'm the very race people are protesting for. Not every answer has to be solved through uplanned and irrational rage. People stopped taking it out on the police at this point, now they're just threatening white people in general. This is probably a stupid rebuttal compared to your reply, but...this whole thing doesn't sit well with me. This 'riot' no reason to be THIS bad, in this day and age.

I wouldn't call anyone else's opinions and reactions to such an emotionally charged event stupid, we all have our own feelings and they are valid after all.

But I do feel, like you said, that if this is the ONLY solution and it shouldn't be taken, then how do we live going forward? Do we just carry on in this state of affairs?

I'm not black, but I am Pakistani and I was born and bred in the UK. That might seem like nothing to you, and I certainly have been laughed at by people who don't understand the significance of this, but over here, Indians, Sri Lankans, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are the most visible and populous minority, and we all get grouped as Asians, and racism for anyone visibly not English enough is still a huge struggle. All I can say is I empathise greatly what African Americans must be going through, because I'm still living in a society where racism is prevalent, just less violently so. I don't think I can say anything else because we're just coming at this from two completely opposite views

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I understand being upset about the destruction of property. It is awful to see but you all need to realize that people tried peaceful protesting. They tried kneeling and were told it wasn’t the time and were shunned by the very people who needed to hear the message. People tried marching and it went ignored. People wrote their representatives, spoke out to the local government, begged the federal government for any sort of reform or change and nothing happened.

When they tried to protest peacefully again, teargas and other chemical agents were thrown at them.

So I am not surprised that when a cop killed another black man on camera in a brutally cruel manner, the people got mad and began to riot.

Many, many times in history people have had to become violent for change to happen. It is the only language the people in power listen to.

And yes, I will blame all cops. The “good” ones who have the power to make a change don’t. Maybe some try, but many stand by and remain complicit in the actions of corrupt officers. So I will blame them all until somebody can show me a good cop doing the right thing and stopping their fellow officers from murdering POC.

We are tired of dying, tired of seeing our loved ones die, tired of seeing no justice against the ones who kill us.

So I’m not going to sit here and listen to anybody take some moral high ground about the destruction of property not being the answer. It isn’t but buildings are insured and can be rebuilt. Dead people don’t come back to life.

They are mad and angry. Instead of judging them for property destruction, take that time to listen to what is being said and find ways to support them in a way you feel will help the cause. Donate your money, donate your time to a charity that supports black youths, educate yourself about the history of civil rights and race dynamics in our country and teach others as well.

People need to get off their high horses and be the change they want to see. Don't judge others for taking action. Find the action that suits you best.

Honestly I've been watching it all pretty closely and its unbelievable how well coordinated the whole thing is. If it continues at the rate its going either the cops or the rioters are going to fire a gun at each other and the whole thing is going to go down hill really really fast in the worst possible way.

Theyre even at the white house now, this is crazy. I generally try to stay away from the realm of conspiracy theory but its hard for me to believe that this isn't a funded/coordinated effort

Of course it is at the White House. The neighborhoods surrounding DC are all predominantly black and they are all mistreated by the government.

It’s coordinated because people have organized together to take action. It is funded by donation funds. How else do you think people take action? Of course there is some planning and some funding.

It isn’t the kind of coordination/funding you think it is, though. This isn‘t some conspiracy.

 

[OneDandelion]

I wouldn't call anyone else's opinions and reactions to such an emotionally charged event stupid, we all have our own feelings and they are valid after all.

But I do feel, like you said, that if this is the ONLY solution and it shouldn't be taken, then how do we live going forward? Do we just carry on in this state of affairs?

I'm not black, but I am Pakistani and I was born and bred in the UK. That might seem like nothing to you, and I certainly have been laughed at by people who don't understand the significance of this, but over here, Indians, Sri Lankans, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are the most visible and populous minority, and we all get grouped as Asians, and racism for anyone visibly not English enough is still a huge struggle. All I can say is I empathise greatly what African Americans must be going through, because I'm still living in a society where racism is prevalent, just less violently so. I don't think I can say anything else because we're just coming at this from two completely opposite views

In america we have trials and elections.

If people have a problem with the way things are run then they need to go and vote. That's how this works. Most of the violent rioters out there probably don't even live in those communities and are most likely factions of antifa - I've literally been watching them spray paint anarchy symbols on various live streams. They're on drugs, they're stealing alchohol. Why would any neighborhood want to destroy itself in protest? the answer is it wouldn't and the police have an obligation to step up and protect the places that they're paid and funded to protect with extreme force if they have to.

And everyone wanted this to be a race issue from the start. And maybe it is, but these people won't wait for the court system to do its job before they rush to conclusions. The autopsy for example has shown that George Floyd actually did not die from asphyxiation - this means that the officer with his knee on George Floyds neck, despite how awful that looked, was not the reason he died. Of course, his negligence is responsible for the death hence the 3rd degree murder charge, but the rioters only caused more damage last night because he didn't get the criminal charge they believe he deserved. Was his negligence driven by racism? Maybe, but it is very hard to prove intent in court.

Who is going to repair all of this damage? The citizens of those neighborhoods that never wanted this to happen.

The people using the riots as a shield to commit theft and arson are cowards and nothing more than local terrorists. We cannot allow this small radical group of people to influence law or the outcome of the justice system. The vast majority of the police are good people - all this is going to do is drive a wedge between the police and the communities they serve. We need to repair that relationship and it goes both ways because police come from around the same neighborhoods that they serve and it is extremely important that they go into the job wanting to protect the place they're from and not out of animosity towards its citizens.

 

[Zephyr]

If people have a problem with the way things are run then they need to go and vote. That's how this works.

We need the support from everyone, including you. The issue is if most of the people in our country are racists, there is no way we can outvote them, how do we even defend ourselves against that or a group with unlimited weaponry with no remorse for murder of innocent people?

 

[2 quid is good]

The autopsy for example has shown that George Floyd actually did not die from asphyxiation - this means that the officer with his knee on George Floyds neck, despite how awful that looked, was not the reason he died.

Do you really believe this? His neck was stood on for 9 minutes. Medical professionals online have expressed that the reason given in the autopsy is highly unlikely to be his cause of death. Regardless of that, even if he survived, putting your knee on another man's neck for nine minutes is unnecessary and that's an understatement on my part.

As for the rest of your post, I fundamentally disagree with a lot of it. Like I said previously, did countries gain independence through peaceable means? Was any meaningful change enacted through wholly peaceable means?

What you were describing, the state of affairs where people vote and elect in good faith is a type of negative peace, it's a peace that only exists when a middle class moderate suburban population feels there is an absence of tension.

Positive peace is where there is a presence of justice, and this type of peace is what people fight for. You can live in negative peace in China, you could live in negative peace in colonies, you can live in negative peace in dictatorships, if you toe the line, but none of that is true justice.

I'm just saying, nothing good ever came from toeing the line, that's why we remember the radical suffragettes and not the peaceful suffragists.

 

[OneDandelion]

We need the support from everyone, including you. The issue is if most of the people in our country are racists, there is no way we can outvote them, how do we even defend ourselves against that or a group with unlimited weaponry with no remorse for murder of innocent people?

Are you suggesting that peaceful protests don't work? As if the peaceful protests of Martin Luther King Jr accomplished nothing?

Most of this country is not racist. And if you come into the argument with the assumption that it's true then we're never going to see eye to eye on this.

Do you really believe this? His neck was stood on for 9 minutes. Medical professionals online have expressed that the reason given in the autopsy is highly unlikely to be his cause of death. Regardless of that, even if he survived, putting your knee on another man's neck for nine minutes is unnecessary and that's an understatement on my part.

You can't tell the amount of force he's putting on his neck from that video. The video is disgusting for sure, but we can't allow emotions to get the better of us when there is scientific evidence telling us otherwise

As for the rest of your post, I fundamentally disagree with a lot of it. Like I said previously, did countries gain independence through peaceable means? Was any meaningful change enacted through wholly peaceable means?

That is a false equivalence. There is a huge difference between fighting for liberty against a tyrannical government and fighting against "systemic racism" that may or may not be propagated by a minority of individuals in a community

Look up martin luther king and let me know what you think

 

[kirabook]

When you oppress people and deny them proper justice, the problem doesn't just go away. People don't forget. They get angrier and angrier.

I don't support rioting, but am I at all surprised?? No. We are humans. History has shown us time and time again we will lash out in mass if held down long enough. Doesn't matter which race, doesn't matter where it is in the world. History around the world shows oppressed people will eventually lash out.

If people in power wanted to prevent this, if people in power wanted the people to trust them, that officer should've been dealt with years ago. He should have been arrested immediately following death of that man. He should've been charged the first degree. The other officers who helped with the murder should've been arrested. The murderer shouldn't have been allowed bail. There were so many opportunities to gain the peoples trust and they failed every single test.

For anyone who happens to read this, I caution on immediately deciding who started the riots/violence. We've already seen throughout American history that people in power will do anything to create an excuse to crush the people. Entire cities have burned and been bombed by the government because of a perceived threat, don't think they won't do it again.

As for Martin Luther King, he had to be murdered and become a martyr before the government finally FINALLY did the right thing and started to make major changes. Not all freedom comes blood free.

 

[Zettaflare]

As a black person I'm against rioting in general and want no part in it. Even disregarding property damage innocent bystanders could still be hurt or killed.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

Look up martin luther king and let me know what you think

MLK got shot and murdered and became a martyr. This isn’t even close to the same thing. Also MLK said:

A riot is the language of the unheard. He did not agree with violence, but he understood what it represented in those who felt it was the only way they could express themselves.

 

[2 quid is good]

Look up martin luther king and let me know what you think

I am well aware who MLK is, in fact I actually quoted him directly in my previous post, I just didn't attribute it to him. MLK wasn't a tree hugger either or something, if you've read his speeches, he addresses the exact situation that is occurring right now and expresses that riots such as these are not something he would condemn.

That is a false equivalence. There is a huge difference between fighting for liberty against a tyrannical government and fighting against "systemic racism" that may or may not be propagated by a minority of individuals in a community

These cops are part of a government institution. This President is the top of the government. If this is not what - at the very least the beginnings of - a tyrannical government looks like, then I'm not sure how much worse the situation has to get to open your eyes.

Look up institutional racism and let me know what you think

Are you suggesting that peaceful protests don't work?

They don't. Show me where peaceful protests ALONE have made an effect. Because MLK had Malcolm X and myriad others. Even MLK himself did not condemn riots. Gandhi had a shit ton of revolutionaries that affected real change, he himself was hardly as effective as you might expect. Peaceful protests by themselves alone have not worked for major change.

 

[kirabook]

I really hate when people bring up MLK and they don't even know his actual opinion on the issue. Yeah, he preferred peaceful protests over violent ones, but he wasn't stupid. He knew exactly why violent protests exists and did everything in his power to explain it to people in power or oblivious people who just don't get it. He was trying to help fix the problem, but now they use his words to continue to try and oppress people. It's a damned shame.

 

[OneDandelion]

MLK got shot and murdered and became a martyr. This isn’t even close to the same thing. Also MLK said:

A riot is the language of the unheard. He did not agree with violence, but he understood what it represented in those who felt it was the only way they could express themselves.

I don't disagree that it's the "language of the unheard", but the change effectuated by MLK did not only happen after he got shot.

I am well aware who MLK is, in fact I actually quoted him directly in my previous post, I just didn't attribute it to him. MLK wasn't a tree hugger either or something, if you've read his speeches, he addresses the exact situation that is occurring right now and expresses that riots such as these are not something he would condemn.

How sure are you about that? Because at 00:30 he literally calls it impractical and immoral

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

My thesis professor made a great statement about the history of violence in the process of social change.

She said that throughout history we can look at many revolutions and find some sort of violent battle connected to it. Look at the French Revolution. Look at the American Revolution. Look at the Civil War. Look at the Arab Spring. We look at history and no change is ever so easy as voting and making that change.

Change comes from hard fought battles, violent and peaceful. The peaceful protests can help but it is the violence the world responds to.

but the change effectuated by MLK did not only happen after he got shot.

No, but it was a major catalyst in making the biggest wave.

How sure are you about that? Because at 00:30 he literally calls it impractical and immoral

Certain conditions continue to exist in our society, which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention

 

[Dandelion]

The "go vote" argument is hilarious, as if gerrymandering doesn't exist. Take a fucking civics/sociology class.