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What Would Make You Give Up On Kingdom Hearts?



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Zul

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I wouldn't actually mind if Nomura passed the torch, if and only if that person is a considerably better writer.

As for giving up...I'm not sure. In fact, I'm not sure if I already have given up. I haven't bought a KH game since the original BBS, 12'ish years ago.

These days I see a new piece of KH news, get excited for all of 3-5 days, then forget KH exists until the next piece of news comes out. Before, I'd check for KH news every day and discuss theories all the time, I suppose I'm just sort of lingering along at this point until the last tiny flame of passion for this series is finally snuffed out.

A big part of me doesn't want it to be this way, but feels forced to. Before, I only had to analyze a few games and a few Nomura interviews. These days, If I want to compose a theory, I have to look back at a ton of footage, and that in itself isn't a problem. The problem is that I also have to look at an additional 15 years worth of interviews, I have to deal with inconsistent retcons with no clear indication of what and what lore is not deprecated. More and more important plot points are poorly translated, making digging deep into what the characters are saying more difficult. If I type out a long theory, one mistranslation is all it takes to potentially throw it all out.

I would be completely re-motivated to speculate if the following happened.

-A lorebook/errata comes out which clearly states which old lore is now no longer relevant, and what is still relevant (such as which parts of the original Ansem reports should still be taken at face-value). Just make it a webpage or something that Nomura can update at his leisure.

-Important plot points are no longer covered in scattered interviews & the ultimania unless they are also patched into the game somehow in a special section of the journal or something similar. Whatever it takes to make the information more organized, available, and easier to filter, I'll take it.

-The localization team stops taking any kind of liberties with the script. If Xehanort said "blank", don't translate it to "bright". If Vanitas says "remnant of my heart", don't translate it to "insignificant speck" etc.
 

disney233

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Like above, hasn't that...already happened? Maleficent and Pete (and Hades) have been treated like friendly goons since midway through KH2. Nobody stays pure evil in this series, not even Disney's most evil villains.
Friendly goons....? That doesn't mean Sora sees them as good guys as we're SUPPOSED to. NONE of the villains in KH became 100% goody-goody good guys that everyone just...forgives except Riku, Axel, & Ansem The Wise (The man did one thing and everyone just forgives him, like bruh?) The Organization is....a weird thing to touch on with this, but it's fucking stupid to redeem or sympathize with people like Maleficent and Xehanort. Like...not EVERYONE has to be redeemed for the sake of...being redeemed.
 

Idreamaboutcats

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Idk...nothing? Short of Nomura stepping down, Nomura dying, or Disney screwing the franchise over, I guess.

There will always be highs and lows for me with this series. I don’t think I could actively dislike anything they’ve put out, though. Criticize it to hell, sure, but never hate.
Echoing back those that already been stated because I feel the same way.

In game reasons:
- Sora is no longer the protag of the series
- No Disney worlds
- Marvel and Star Wars (would feel extremely odd and out of place since they're not "Disney" worlds and they feel more like universes rather than just individual worlds)
- Bringing back Xehanort as the main villain again (Keep him dead please! His run was over!)

Out of game reasons:
- Nomura stepping down or passes away
- Disney taking full control of the series (Look what happened with KH3 when they were overlooking it)

A couple of these reasons probably won't make me quit KH right away, but it would definitely kill my love for the series. The rest are like they better be extremely good and I don't trust Disney with any IP right now.
All these. It would be difficult to produce satisfying results if the original visionary is gone. I can't imagine KH without Nomura, despite his convoluted plotholes.
I've already given up on KH because of the sequelbaiting and 3's letdown. That being said, if phase 2 doesn't get its act together tben I'll never read KH news again...2022 better surprise me but I'm not holding my breath.
That is actually quite a serious answer that I didn't expect from you...other than the obvious intentional misspelling, I sort of agree, in some ways.
Raya should be one of the New Seven Hearts. Her title is literally Princess of Heart.
Erm...maybe? That's up for debate? Considering the princesses are supposed to be the pinnacle of human virtue, we'll see? Even I'm confused how Elsa got in that list, let alone Raya who is incredibly distrustful of the people around her, but who knows?
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Erm...maybe? That's up for debate? Considering the princesses are supposed to be the pinnacle of human virtue, we'll see? Even I'm confused how Elsa got in that list, let alone Raya who is incredibly distrustful of the people around her, but who knows?
Fairy Godmother essentially explained in BBS that even a pure heart can be led astray or clouded by the darkness of those surrounding it.

Raya is definitely that sort of character. She wants desperately to trust people but it’s the actions of those around her that forces her to distrust people and the world. And then she is surrounded by people who show her how to trust again and she ends up being the one who kindles hope and trust in everyone else.

Elsa is another sort of person who is capable of being amazing but is shrouded by her own self-doubt.

I honestly think it is a better and more nuanced way of having PoH moving forward. The majority of the other PoH don’t have any true failings besides maybe being gullible lol. Whatever happens to them happens because of bad people around them. They are monoliths within their stories; they are fully-realized characters who do not have fundamental character changes because of what happens to them. The conflict is mostly external.

Most of the modern Disney princesses are definitely not that. They have flaws and doubts. They are internally affected by the story and the conflict is both internal and external. Raya goes from losing faith in others to learning how to trust even their most bitter enemy. Moana goes from believing she is chosen by fate for a grand purpose to realizing that she controls her fate and her purpose is the one she gives herself.

You get the idea xD

There is more depth to having a story where these princesses find the light within them rather than it being some natural-born thing. They earn their status as a PoH rather than just being one.
 

AegisXIII

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If Nomura leaves Square. I would probably give up. Say what you want, his writing is terrible, but he is the master of the hype.
 

Cumguardian69

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If Nomura leaves Square. I would probably give up. Say what you want, his writing is terrible, but he is the master of the hype.
Being hype master doesn't mean anything if he cant thread the needle! My favorite example of this is the

AQUANORT REVEAL

Nomura and his goddamn "I hope the fans will be okay" comment after the reveal put the fanbase in collective shock...only for the final product to say "lol jk just smack her in the head with a giant key lmao"
 

Absent

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Personally, I think of these two Xehanorts as their own characters. It's pretty clear they are setting him up to be the Anakin of the series, anyways. DR and whatever else comes is the KH equivalent of The Clone Wars or something.

I don't think he'll be revived, but I absolutely think everything we are seeing is meant to explain his actions and make him sympathetic.

Holy sh!t, I never realized that. My George Lucas/Nomura jokes might become a reality.
 

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Frankly, I can't see myself giving up on kh. I do have my own criticism of the series, but I have never been one to leave a franchise or growing to dislike it because of its flaws lol. Unless they add overbearing fanservice. Although I might consider giving up on kh if:
  • Nomura stepping down
  • Sora dying or no longer the main protagonist
 

AegisXIII

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Frankly, I can't see myself giving up on kh. I do have my own criticism of the series, but I have never been one to leave a franchise or growing to dislike it because of its flaws lol. Unless they add overbearing fanservice. Although I might consider giving up on kh if:
  • Nomura stepping down
  • Sora dying or no longer the main protagonist
What about Sora becoming the main antagonist? XD
 

senninichigo

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That already happened. KH2--triangle to win, everything dumbed down to a preschooler level to the point every environment was just walk straight forward so the new players won't get lost, lol. That game is still the easiest one in the series for me and I'll always hate it for that dumbing down aspect. If Re:MIND really made KH3 more KH2-esque as someone wrote above, then I guess it's a blessing in disguise that I can't play DLC.


Like above, hasn't that...already happened? Maleficent and Pete (and Hades) have been treated like friendly goons since midway through KH2. Nobody stays pure evil in this series, not even Disney's most evil villains.

As for the possibility of Xehanort returning, I agree--NOPE. But if it's returning in a different capacity, who knows. It would be sort of interesting for Ansem, Xemnas, Young Xehanort and/or Young Eraqus to just be wandering around Twilight Town or Radiant Garden as NPCs rather than villains or characters with some kind of importance to the storyline. It would be unbelievable that a mob wouldn't string them up, but the same's true for Even, Ienzo, etc.
Well the triangle to win button did dumb things down a bit but the enemies were a lot more complex and Sora had a lot more versatility and balance to his moves and abilities so they even each other out depending on the enemy your facing. I would say reflect and limits made the game more simple than reaction commands, hence why in KH3 Sora barely has reflect guard on his formchanges and links need full MP to use. Also the dlc doesn't make things more KH2 esque but KH2 FM esque with the data fights which aren't simply press a button and win instead of learn the moves and opening or die.

Also the thing about villians not staying evil is kinda a point to the series from Nomura. There are only a few things good and evil and that would be PURE light and PURE darkness which most things are not and everything else has shades of grey in-between. Not saying you have to like it but it's kinda the story he's been telling since KH1 with Riku, Maleficent in KH2 and all the talks about darkness and light in KH3 and KHUX.
 

2 quid is good

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They can very easily just stop having Disney films and characters in the game and just say "well the KH universe developed into its own thing!" like how Nomura tried to explain away FF characters not being in KH3 lol.
And I can foresee hordes of KH fans buying this "justification" and trotting it out as if its a completely valid reason despite them currently being completely against such a decision.


Ahhhh I'm so bloody bitter over the fandom's attitude to FF characters.

Anyway, to answer the question, I think I'm already at that point, and I don't mean this maliciously. What do I enjoy in KH? The original worlds and original characters, and the SE subplots.

I realise now how niche that is but it didn't feel particularly niche in the years 2013-2018 considering the last game was Dream Drop Distance which had substantial original worlds and TWEWY characters, and every major release after that was game collections that only bolstered my attachment to these parts of KH.

I don't go actively looking for KH news anymore, I hardly participate in discussions at length like I used to, and when I do its mostly "what if" one's. I don't have any particular excitement for the future direction of the series. I suppose I'll be asked what I'm doing here if that's the case.

Well, I still have a smidgen of hope, and I suppose I'll keep checking out KH games from a distance to see if they'll appeal to me, but day one buys are they no longer.

So I guess what makes me give up on Kingdom Hearts is when Kingdom Hearts gives up on the things that made it what it was
 

AegisXIII

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And I can foresee hordes of KH fans buying this "justification" and trotting it out as if its a completely valid reason despite them currently being completely against such a decision.


Ahhhh I'm so bloody bitter over the fandom's attitude to FF characters.

Anyway, to answer the question, I think I'm already at that point, and I don't mean this maliciously. What do I enjoy in KH? The original worlds and original characters, and the SE subplots.

I realise now how niche that is but it didn't feel particularly niche in the years 2013-2018 considering the last game was Dream Drop Distance which had substantial original worlds and TWEWY characters, and every major release after that was game collections that only bolstered my attachment to these parts of KH.

I don't go actively looking for KH news anymore, I hardly participate in discussions at length like I used to, and when I do its mostly "what if" one's. I don't have any particular excitement for the future direction of the series. I suppose I'll be asked what I'm doing here if that's the case.

Well, I still have a smidgen of hope, and I suppose I'll keep checking out KH games from a distance to see if they'll appeal to me, but day one buys are they no longer.

So I guess what makes me give up on Kingdom Hearts is when Kingdom Hearts gives up on the things that made it what it was
I don't think it's niche. One of the complaints of kh3 was that it didn't have enough original worlds to explore. But with quadratum being the next focus, it is most likely that ff will have a huge role in the future. I say ff, but I mean square enix worlds.
 

2 quid is good

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I say ff, but I mean square enix worlds
It's never gonna happen. And I'm not being pessimistic, FF worlds have been bought up before in interviews where pretty much this response is given.
But with quadratum being the next focus, it is most likely that ff will have a huge role in the future.
Now maybe I am being pessimistic: I don't think think this will happen at all, and if it does it'll be Nomura's colour swapped version of Versus 13, which is fine, I wouldn't be opposed to that but there's a ton of other stuff I'd prefer.

Anyway, anyone who thinks disney won't be a major driving force of the next game is blinkered, quadratum will probably just be the final boss battle place, like, you know, every secret ending before it has shown.
I don't think it's niche. One of the complaints of kh3 was that it didn't have enough original worlds to explore.
Sure it was one of the criticisms, but most fans wouldn't accept that as a reason to drop or significantly lose interest in the series, not that I have to justify myself to them but it often is the case in fandom that you do.
 

Katsagu

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At this point, honestly I don't think there's "one specific thing" that will make me quit. This series has been a constant in my life for so long, that either I just grow out of the series with the passing of time, or I'll be in this train for a long long time.
 

AegisXIII

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At this point, honestly I don't think there's "one specific thing" that will make me quit. This series has been a constant in my life for so long, that either I just grow out of the series with the passing of time, or I'll be in this train for a long long time.
Yes me too. I have been with it since I was a child so it's like a habit. But I am wondering if I would get into if i were to discover it today.
 

pastel.goblin

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Hm, at this point I really think I'm just in it til the end. There are loads of things about the series as a whole that I find incredibly frustrating, from the at times questionable writing, to missed opportunities, to the poor treatment of the female cast, to spreading the series across every flipping platform (ffs Nomura I thought we were past this~!) but it's been part of my life for so many years now, and going back to the older games still gives me that same warm nostalgic feeling that I don't think there's any one thing that would make me cut ties completely. I'll complain for sure, but for better or worse I love this series, and like I've told my friend who's never played, only fans really have the right to dunk on it lol.

That said, I'll never play the mobile games 😅
 
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