What if Vanitas isn't one of the 13 Darknesses



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Empress Mitsuru

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Most people think Vanitas is a member of the Organization, and him wearing a black coat supports this, but what if this is just to mislead us? Ansem the Wise wears a black coat but there's nothing to suggest he's a vessel.
 

DarkGrey Heroine

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Might as well be possible, this is KH after all. Though many things already hint at him being one of the Darknesses.
However, I love to see that there are indeed people who leave a little place for doubt regarding this, we might be in for a pleasant surprise (for Vanitas fans or those who enjoy redemption narrative drives), so why not~
 
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You know, I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he was.

DarkGrey Heroine--I think it would be cool if he got a redemption story! Him and Saix!
 

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There isn't really much reason to doubt he isn't a darkness. We already knew he was hinted to be a vessel based on his yellow eyes in BBS.
 

Squall Strife

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Vanitas appears in 3d alongside Young Xehanort. So he's essentially confirmed to be part of the true organization
 

shady543

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Might as well be possible, this is KH after all. Though many things already hint at him being one of the Darknesses.
However, I love to see that there are indeed people who leave a little place for doubt regarding this, we might be in for a pleasant surprise (for Vanitas fans or those who enjoy redemption narrative drives), so why not~
This basically. I can see him deciding to go rogue/anti-hero towards the end and joining neither side honestly, especially since not following orders and being unpredictable in general seems to be in his nature. But what bothers me is that the coat is needed to shield the wearer from darkness, yet that isn't a requirement for Vanitas but he wears the coat anyway... could just be a fashion statement that he is on the bad team I guess, but I'm hoping its more than just that. :\

I honestly can't see Vanitas or Larxene following orders and being loyal to the darknesses but I dunno lol.
 
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Dreaded_Desire62

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There isn't really much reason to doubt he isn't a darkness. We already knew he was hinted to be a vessel based on his yellow eyes in BBS.
Doesn't the eyes symbolize his connection to darkness and not necessarily Xehanort? Vanitas himself is darkness, specifically Ventus' darkness. So, he might be using Young Xehanort as some sort of vessel, though that sounds quite outlandish. Was it really Vanitas we saw or just Young Xehanort being controlled by Vanitas? It sounds quite farfetched, considering that someone's appearance can shift due to whoever is controlling them.

I mean, Ventus is still asleep, so how is Vanitas still walking around? Why does Sora see Vanitas only in the company of Young Xehanort? Would Young Xehanort allow Vanitas to control him and his memories by overshadowing his appearance and memories just to bring out Ventus in order to bring about his rebirth? Vanitas pretty much tried to fuse with Ventus because his body was falling apart. So, it's possible that Xehanort brought the boy back and allowed Vanitas to take control over one of the Seekers.
 

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I mean, Ventus is still asleep, so how is Vanitas still walking around? Why does Sora see Vanitas only in the company of Young Xehanort?
Vanitas was isn't tied to Ventus waking up he's his own person. As Ven said he was going to destroy Vanitas, which would destroy the X-blade, and that in turn would heavily damage and all but destroy the hearts that make it aka Ven and Vanitas. He did exactly that and that's exactly what happened and we watched Vanitas's heart vanish and then Ven's heart do the same. Ventus found himself in some weird black void but was lead out of it and into Sora's heart by their connection. Vanitas had another person filling in part of his heart like Ventus, except it was Xehanort instead of Sora and so it stands to reason just as Sora could reach Ventus that Xehanort would be able to call Vanitas back from the void.

Sora only saw Vanitas for a split second because of Ventus. Specifically Vanitas was with YX but lacks a physical form so he couldn't be seen however his heart resonated with Ven's heart and made him visible for a few seconds. It's the same way Roxas and Namine can see one another when Sora and Kairi are together or like when Sora saw Kairi at Merlin's. We/Sora were seeing what Ventus was seeing but only for a moment, enough for Sora's eyes to glance over to the side and then for Vanitas to be gone. It's one of the effects of Ventus's heart having recovered fully and finally awakened.
 

Dreaded_Desire62

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Vanitas was isn't tied to Ventus waking up he's his own person. As Ven said he was going to destroy Vanitas, which would destroy the X-blade, and that in turn would heavily damage and all but destroy the hearts that make it aka Ven and Vanitas. He did exactly that and that's exactly what happened and we watched Vanitas's heart vanish and then Ven's heart do the same. Ventus found himself in some weird black void but was lead out of it and into Sora's heart by their connection. Vanitas had another person filling in part of his heart like Ventus, except it was Xehanort instead of Sora and so it stands to reason just as Sora could reach Ventus that Xehanort would be able to call Vanitas back from the void.

Sora only saw Vanitas for a split second because of Ventus. Specifically Vanitas was with YX but lacks a physical form so he couldn't be seen however his heart resonated with Ven's heart and made him visible for a few seconds. It's the same way Roxas and Namine can see one another when Sora and Kairi are together or like when Sora saw Kairi at Merlin's. We/Sora were seeing what Ventus was seeing but only for a moment, enough for Sora's eyes to glance over to the side and then for Vanitas to be gone. It's one of the effects of Ventus's heart having recovered fully and finally awakened.
How was everyone including Sora able to see Vanitas in the latest Kingdom Hearts trailer? Vanitas came out in a black coat and Sora was pretty much taken aback by saying this strange boy's name that he's never met. Vanitas shouldn't have a physical form or at least shouldn't be seen by anyone else other than Sora.

Sora was the only person to see Roxas when they faced off, Goofy and Donald were blocked by the Samurai Nobodies. So, either Ven can cause other people including people that just met Sora to hallucinate into seeing Vanitas or Vanitas was given a body by Xehanort to actually be there.

Vanitas maybe his own person but he still has ties to Ventus, hence his Sora-like appearance revealed near the climax of BBS.
 

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I thought the Vanitas we saw in the trailer was brought back via time travel like Ansem and Xemnas. That seemed like the most logical conclusion
 

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Doesn't the eyes symbolize his connection to darkness and not necessarily Xehanort?
It's the other way around. Yellow eyes mean Xehanort. Darkness doesn't have a signifier. Otherwise, wouldn't any of the Disney villains have yellow eyes? Or Riku and Terra when they use the darkness? Terra's eyes only turned yellow after Xehanort's heart was controlling him, as did Braig -- in DDD, it specifically pans on Xigbar's eyes when he says he's already half-Xehanort for this reason.

Why does Sora see Vanitas only in the company of Young Xehanort?
Sora didn't actually see Vanitas. Ventus reacted and saw Vanitas, but Sora only reacted to YX's words.

KH3D Ultimania said:
Why did Xehanort and co. word things as if to try and wake Ventus who is inside Sora?

Nomura: They did so in order to tempt Sora’s heart and have it fall to the darkness. In the story it also talks about how abandoning the self leads to losing the heart. When you see Vanitas (the dark half of Ventus who appeared in KHBBS) overlay Young Xehanort for a moment, that represents Ventus’ heart reacting inside Sora.
 

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If you watch the scene carefully Sora's eyes dart over for the briefest second to the side where Vanitas is, Sora did see that image of Vanitas but it was there only for a brief second the same way it was for us players. Doesn't change it was Ventus reacting to Vanitas that made him visible though just like Roxas and Namine reacting to one another made them visible to Sora, Kairi, and Riku.

How was everyone including Sora able to see Vanitas in the latest Kingdom Hearts trailer? Vanitas came out in a black coat and Sora was pretty much taken aback by saying this strange boy's name that he's never met. Vanitas shouldn't have a physical form or at least shouldn't be seen by anyone else other than Sora.

Sora was the only person to see Roxas when they faced off, Goofy and Donald were blocked by the Samurai Nobodies. So, either Ven can cause other people including people that just met Sora to hallucinate into seeing Vanitas or Vanitas was given a body by Xehanort to actually be there.

Vanitas maybe his own person but he still has ties to Ventus, hence his Sora-like appearance revealed near the climax of BBS.
There are two very simple possible explanations. Everyone saw Vanitas in MI because he no longer lacks a body so the question is simply how he got a body and the answer is they either grabbed a less useless Vanitas or they simply found a way to restore his body. Which either happens during or before MI...I almost lean towards it being during as it seems like the simplest answer is that he used the negative emotions in the factory to rebuild his physical form. The reason I lean away from them simply grabbing a Vanitas with a physical form is that they didn't bother to do that in DDD in the first place so there is probably some kind of reason they can't or don't want to. A reason I imagine didn't change with KH3 since it's been like less than a few days between the two games.
 

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If you watch the scene carefully Sora's eyes dart over for the briefest second to the side where Vanitas is, Sora did see that image of Vanitas but it was there only for a brief second the same way it was for us players. Doesn't change it was Ventus reacting to Vanitas that made him visible though just like Roxas and Namine reacting to one another made them visible to Sora, Kairi, and Riku.
See, the thing is, Nomura's commented that Terra wasn't really seeing Riku, Xehanort, or Aqua during the few scenes that we saw a flash to that, and Terra just had a "sense" or a "feeling" that something would happen to Aqua or that Riku was important. That was supposed to be a visual cue for the player. However, you could argue that Terra reacted because they make it seem like he was having some sort of vision.

I think that's going on with Sora here. Maybe he had a sense (because Ven's heart is more active in his heart starting with this game), but he didn't see Vanitas or he would've commented (like he comments every time he sees someone or something new or off). He was reacting to the "Your heart is a prison" line, because he's not fully aware at this point of Roxas, Ven, and Xion's hearts inside him (that revelation comes later and when Riku goes into his heart).
 

Empress Mitsuru

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This basically. I can see him deciding to go rogue/anti-hero towards the end and joining neither side honestly, especially since not following orders and being unpredictable in general seems to be in his nature. But what bothers me is that the coat is needed to shield the wearer from darkness, yet that isn't a requirement for Vanitas but he wears the coat anyway... could just be a fashion statement that he is on the bad team I guess, but I'm hoping its more than just that. :\

I honestly can't see Vanitas or Larxene following orders and being loyal to the darknesses but I dunno lol.
Why mention Larxene? She hasn't been confirmed either.
 

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Marluxia's presence has opened the floodgates for speculation on every member of Organization XII that isn't Lea, Roxas, Evan, Ienzo, Dilan or Aleous will be in the new team (Isa, Braig and Xemnas himself were in contrast already confirmed to be the new team). Larxene would therefore be mentioned because her presence is all but confirmed as far as the speculators are concerned and she and Marluxia were plotting to usurp Xenmas.
 

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Larxene would at least make sense in that she's actually a villain and I'd rather have actual villains filling out the spots than forced, "enslaved" good guys.
 

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Larxene would at least make sense in that she's actually a villain and I'd rather have actual villains filling out the spots than forced, "enslaved" good guys.
Yeah, I completely agree here. There's reasonable theories that Roxas or Xion will fill that 13th spot, which is awful enough considering all that they've gone through would be to just be possessed and controlled (again, in Xion's case). I also feel like making Roxas an antagonist to Sora kind of repeats parts of KH2 even though most of Roxas's ill feelings towards Sora are dissolved by now.

The biggest problem people have with Marluxia and Larxene being in the True Organization is that they were traitors (but so was Saix, in regards to his plan with Axel) but we also know so little of what they were trying to do and what their motivations actually were beyond trying to go against Xemnas. For all we know, the True Organization's goals are more in line with what they were after to begin with, but more than likely they'll leave it at "they're possessed now" and were picked up by Young Xehanort.
 

Empress Mitsuru

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One problem that I've pointed out in another thread is Xemnas said most of the Organization members weren't suited to be Xehanort vessels for various reasons. In regards to members that are vessels, Marluxia's all but confirmed and Luxord's been hinted at with one of Young Xehanort's chess pieces. If Larxene (and possibly Demyx too) do end up as members that would mean more than half of the original Organization (exactly half if you count Xion) are vessels
 
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