What If: Unreality Is Reality and Sora's Reality Is Fiction?

[Face My Fears]

Does anyone think that Nomura will pull a good ole switch-a-roo with Quadratum? What if it's discovered that "unreality" is the real world and Sora's reality is the fictional one?

With that said, what actually determines which one is fictional and which one is real? From either of their perspectives, the other would be fictional. Luxord/Durol probably always lived his life believing that it was real, then hopping over into the Xehanort story, I doubt he would have deemed that as the "real world".

Anyway, I'm not sure how this will change anything, but it's interesting if Nomura would proceed with something like this to maybe spice up the story.

 

[Chaser]

I thought it was established in Toy Box that to the people of Quadratum, Sora and his universe is a "video game" and therefore fictional?

It seems that to Kingdom Hearts, Quadratum is a video game and "fictional" and to Quadratum, Kingdom Hearts is a video game and "fictional." I don't think one is a true "reality" due to this paradox.

 

[Chie]

From what we know right now, Quadratum definitely reads as more "real" than the KHverse. Quadratum is identical to an actual city in our world, has a real moon that's deliberately contrasted against the shape of KH, and features a more realistic art style; conversely, the KHverse is largely made up of Disney movies, which are fiction to us. I think this is quite interesting.

What this means for the facts in-story is another question, though.

 

[Deleted member 252753]

I thought it was established in Toy Box that to the people of Quadratum, Sora and his universe is a "video game" and therefore fictional?

It seems that to Kingdom Hearts, Quadratum is a video game and "fictional" and to Quadratum, Kingdom Hearts is a video game and "fictional." I don't think one is a true "reality" due to this paradox.

I assumed that Young Xehanort was simply referring to how Rex in Toy Box inexplicably thinks that Sora looks like Yozora but you're probably right.

 

[redcrown]

I thought that as soon as they introduced the "copy of a world" concept in the Toy Story world and showed Yozora for the first time in the game store, especially when they mentioned how Buzz's laser was turned into a real weapon and not just a flashing light as before.

It was strengthened further with the Limit Cut DLC and the dialogue Yozora had with Sora saying he was "from the real world" or something to that effect. Also after the battle Yozora wakes up in a car, implying Sora and his world is the dream/fictional and Yozora's is reality, in the modern world Shibuya or Quadratum.

 

[okhi12]

From what we know right now, Quadratum definitely reads as more "real" than the KHverse. Quadratum is identical to an actual city in our world, has a real moon that's deliberately contrasted against the shape of KH, and features a more realistic art style; conversely, the KHverse is largely made up of Disney movies, which are fiction to us. I think this is quite interesting.

What this means for the facts in-story is another question, though.

I agree, the KH series has taken a new direction that is more realistic in contrast to the fairy tale-like KHverse. I still remember that FFvs13 trailer with the ''this is a fantasy based on reality'' concept, and that's exactly what Nomura is going for with Quadratum. I'm sure that was his intention whith the secret ending of KH3 showing the moon's round shape and the MoM making a heart with his hands.

I hope Nomura is not trying to foreshadow anything special about that moon, though. We know Quadratum belongs to a different reality, but the round shape of the moon is not a definitory aspect of which reality that world belongs to.

The heart-shaped moon which is Kingdom Hearts is a special entity. It just coincidentally looks like a moon but it is its own thing, not the canon form for the usual moons in the KHverse as there are several worlds in the KH canon which have normal moons (for obvious reasons), like Neverland, Port Royal... Even the Hundred Acre Wood, which is a fictional world inside a book but is actually a canon world (it even has its own Keyhole) in the Realm of Light and thus in the reality of the KHverse.

I'm sure any of these two realities is considered the fictional one by the other ''side'' because it makes sense. Reality depends on the point of view, it's basic philosophy. There are as many realities as there are beings able to perceive something as real.

 

[Deleted member 252753]

hope Nomura is not trying to foreshadow anything special about that moon, though. We know Quadratum belongs to a different reality, but the round shape of the moon is not a definitory aspect of which reality that world belongs to.

The heart-shaped moon which is Kingdom Hearts is a special entity. It just coincidentally looks like a moon but it is its own thing, not the canon form for the usual moons in the KHverse as there are several worlds in the KH canon which have normal moons (for obvious reasons), like Neverland, Port Royal... Even the Hundred Acre Wood, which is a fictional world inside a book but is actually a canon world (it even has its own Keyhole) in the Realm of Light and thus in the reality of the KHverse.

I will be annoyed too if the intention is to make out like the moon would have to be heart-shaped in the normal KHverse. What I hope could foreshadowed by that was the importance of there not being Kingdom Hearts in the (un-)reality of Quadratum, or maybe the importance of it being summoned in KH3 (and we still don't really know how what that actually did but it's safe to say it was an important part of the MoM's plan).

The more I think about this theory I like it though, especially with the ending of Re:Mind having both Sora and Yozora question whether their own reality is real or not.

 

[AdrianXXII]

I thought it was established in Toy Box that to the people of Quadratum, Sora and his universe is a "video game" and therefore fictional?

It seems that to Kingdom Hearts, Quadratum is a video game and "fictional" and to Quadratum, Kingdom Hearts is a video game and "fictional." I don't think one is a true "reality" due to this paradox.

Oh this is good. Those lines can be taken to either be Young Xehanort reiterating what Rex and the Toys think or foreshadowing of the knowledge the older Xehanorts might have shared with him about the other reality.

I definitely do think that it's a relative thing which world is reality and which is unreality. we can't even rule out the possibilities of there being other realities than the previously known one and the one of Quadratum. Quadratum isn't our real world in the very least seeing it does have its own magic. But I do imagine it'll operate under different rules than what we are used to.

 

[Vulpes XIII]

Oh this is good. Those lines can be taken to either be Young Xehanort reiterating what Rex and the Toys think or foreshadowing of the knowledge the older Xehanorts might have shared with him about the other reality.

I definitely do think that it's a relative thing which world is reality and which is unreality. we can't even rule out the possibilities of there being other realities than the previously known one and the one of Quadratum. Quadratum isn't our real world in the very least seeing it does have its own magic. But I do imagine it'll operate under different rules than what we are used to.

One thing this makes me curious of is if Sora world is one reality and Quadratum another reality how does The World Ends With You Shibuya factor into this as I believe Nomura said in a interview that the Shibuya that Sora is in is not the same one as Neku and his friends are in. As Neku and his friends were in Traverse Town in the sleeping worlds but Traverse Town is part of Sora’s reality and although Sora said he would see them again in their world. However Neku world looks a lot different from any worlds in Sora’s reality as it looks more like the Shibuya in Quadratum but Nomura said it wasn’t so is TWEWY Shibuya meant to be another reality that we are going to visit or something.

Also since we have had sleeping worlds, data worlds, time travel,timelines and now we have unreality vs reality. So what’s the next big twist Nomura going to add to the plot ( is there even anything else he can add at this point?)

 

[Ballad of Caius]

I thought it was established in Toy Box that to the people of Quadratum, Sora and his universe is a "video game" and therefore fictional?

It seems that to Kingdom Hearts, Quadratum is a video game and "fictional" and to Quadratum, Kingdom Hearts is a video game and "fictional." I don't think one is a true "reality" due to this paradox.

I wholeheartedly agree with Chaser. For us, the Players, both Quadratum and KINGDOM HEARTS are true reality. But for the denizens of Quadratum/KH, their respective reality is the real one, while the other is unreal.

Also after the battle Yozora wakes up in a car, implying Sora and his world is the dream/fictional and Yozora's is reality,

I think it would have more to do wit the fact that, since sleep and death sometimes interact, that Yozora fell asleep in order to access the world of the dead: the Final World, without having to die.

 

[Face My Fears]

I thought it was established in Toy Box that to the people of Quadratum, Sora and his universe is a "video game" and therefore fictional?

It seems that to Kingdom Hearts, Quadratum is a video game and "fictional" and to Quadratum, Kingdom Hearts is a video game and "fictional." I don't think one is a true "reality" due to this paradox.

I took this as Young Xehanort going along with what Rex believed - that Sora was a Yozora action figure. It is interesting though that in the "split" Toy Box world, Sora ends up in the side of Toy Box where the fictional stuff (like Buzz's laser) is now real. Which makes the Toy Box world even more interesting and hopefully, Nomura explains a deeper reason for Young Xehanort to visit the world. Young Xehanort researching how hearts' connections can bring toys to life is relevant to Xion and the other replicas, but honestly I feel like Young Xehanort was there for something else, something to do with Quadratum and understanding the nature of unreality vs. reality. I can imagine that Master Xehanort probably assumed he would win the X-Blade and was thinking about after beating Sora, what he was going to do with unreality. I mean, the very fact that the toys can be brought to life by Andy's imagination pretty much shows that in the Toy Box world, imagination or "fiction" has some kind of power, even though it's not the unreality side.

This whole thing has me very intrigued to see what exactly Game Central Station is. In KHUX, it's confirmed to not be a data/memory world, but an actual world. But if it's a video game, then is it a portal to Quadratum or somehow connected to Quadratum? I would also lump 100 Acre Wood in there because it's a storybook. Maybe there's some way to create "pockets" of unreality in reality (Sora's reality)? Maybe that's how the Foretellers and maybe even Luxu hid for all these years? What if Toy Box (the split version), 100 Acre Wood, and Game Central Station are pockets of unreality that can exist in Sora's reality? Quadratum can also be a "pocket", just a very large one. At the end of the day, unreality comes from "fiction" which HAS to come from someone's imagination in Sora's reality, right? Otherwise, there would have been no one to create the fiction and hence it would never exist...

OK just gave myself a headache and it's worse than the usual KH headache lol.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

I wholeheartedly agree with Chaser. For us, the Players, both Quadratum and KINGDOM HEARTS are true reality. But for the denizens of Quadratum/KH, their respective reality is the real one, while the other is unreal.

This was my interpretation of the laws of reality.

 

[WhinyAcademic]

Sora is in, for all effects and purposes, the realm of death after Re: MIND. That’s how Yozora was able to meet him in his dreams, since sleep and death occasionally cross over. The whole encounter and boss fight took place in Yozora’s dream, which is how he was able to change the setting from the night Final World to Quadratum, and could even be how he was able to do some of his stuff like the planetarium.

Also a nice touch that Ansem the Wise was the first to hit on the idea of a fictional world after he created the virtual Twilight Town.

 

[Face My Fears]

Sora is in, for all effects and purposes, the realm of death after Re: MIND. That’s how Yozora was able to meet him in his dreams, since sleep and death occasionally cross over. The whole encounter and boss fight took place in Yozora’s dream, which is how he was able to change the setting from the night Final World to Quadratum, and could even be how he was able to do some of his stuff like the planetarium.

Also a nice touch that Ansem the Wise was the first to hit on the idea of a fictional world after he created the virtual Twilight Town.

That is true...

So then what is the difference between a "dream" and a "fictional" world? I assume that The Final World exists in the "Realm of Sleep" which borders on death, and as Sora/Riku saved the last few worlds that were "dreaming" in the Realm of Sleep, all that's left is The Final World.

If Yozora created a dream world version of Quadratum to battle Sora, then Sora is trapped in Yozora's dream. While Riku will be going to the real Quadratum - where Sora is not present.

This kind of goes along with my thought about "pockets of unreality". It seems that some people are able to create these pockets of unreality to use them as they see fit. Something I would love to see in Quadratum is Riku coming across Christopher Robin, to explain the 100 Acre Wood book as being an artifact from Quadratum.

 

[Nazo]

I thought it was established in Toy Box that to the people of Quadratum, Sora and his universe is a "video game" and therefore fictional?

It seems that to Kingdom Hearts, Quadratum is a video game and "fictional" and to Quadratum, Kingdom Hearts is a video game and "fictional." I don't think one is a true "reality" due to this paradox.

Yep, I came to this thread to say exactly this same thing

 

[The_Echo]

I thought it was established in Toy Box that to the people of Quadratum, Sora and his universe is a "video game" and therefore fictional?

It seems that to Kingdom Hearts, Quadratum is a video game and "fictional" and to Quadratum, Kingdom Hearts is a video game and "fictional." I don't think one is a true "reality" due to this paradox.

I think Xehanort was talking about Toy Box when he said "this world." Because Rex and the others convinced themselves that Sora was Yozora from Verum Rex.
And Xehanort threw Sora into the video game.

I don't think that dialogue has anything to do with Quadratum.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Considering how the Kingdom Hearts universe is made up of Disney movies, I think it is possible that the KH reality is fiction from Quadratum's perspective. Maybe if Mickey, Donald and Goofy were to go over there, the people of Quadratum could recognize them as cartoon characters? But the Nameless Star didn't recognize the Fairy Godmother.

 

[AdrianXXII]

Considering how the Kingdom Hearts universe is made up of Disney movies, I think it is possible that the KH reality is fiction from Quadratum's perspective. Maybe if Mickey, Donald and Goofy were to go over there, the people of Quadratum could recognize them as cartoon characters? But the Nameless Star didn't recognize the Fairy Godmother.

Maybe she just doesn't care for animation? We'll see, if anyone else recognizes the characters.