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What exactly is it that people hate about Re:Chain of Memories card combat?



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Vulpes XIII

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While I was replaying Re:Chain of Memories the other day a random thought came to me during one of the battles which was what exactly is it about the card combat that people hate so much? As someone who really enjoys the combat system ( which I know is a very unpopular opinion to have) I can’t figure out why it hated so much. As people say ” the combat is awful” or “I hate the card system” but I realised that I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone state why? Is it the reload times, deck building, card breaks or something else?
 

KingdomKurdistan

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I liked it too. Especially on the GBA. There's a thrill to scrambling around your deck looking for a cura. Plus, when I finally beat Riku after hours by making him run out of cards, it felt like the greatest achievement of my gaming life.

But when I introduced my cousin to KH and we beat KH1, he was so excited to see what comes next.

First thing he says about COM is: "what's this maths, why is it making me do maths? I have a headache already what's this it's like I'm doing homework; my days algebra was better than this. Can we just skip this please."

It was the first fucking door.
 

Elysium

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Yeah, I read a post recently about re:CoM's combat that made me realize it's the fact that a lot of people are bad at math.... I was always strong in math, which may be the reason it never bothered me. I think it's fun, actually.

Another thing is--just guessing--a lot of players aren't strategic at all, either because they're young or very casual players. They probably play nonstop combos (three cards put together) until they end up with only 2 or 3 cards left and have to constantly re-load to finish a battle, lol.
 

Vulpes XIII

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I never thought maths would be one of the things that makes people hate the game. As in my case I hate maths but I find the card combat a lot of fun and I enjoy the challenge of the fights and I actually find it a lot of fun trying to figure out the best deck setup and best strategy to win.
 
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AdrianXXII

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Yeah, I read a post recently about re:CoM's combat that made me realize it's the fact that a lot of people are bad at math.... I was always strong in math, which may be the reason it never bothered me. I think it's fun, actually.
It's a nice theory, but I'd debate it's validity, unless I'm the exception to prove the rule. I always got near full mark in math and yet I really found the battle system tedious.

Another thing is--just guessing--a lot of players aren't strategic at all, either because they're young or very casual players. They probably play nonstop combos (three cards put together) until they end up with only 2 or 3 cards left and have to constantly re-load to finish a battle, lol.
This theory is more likely, seeing I've never been too good with strategy or resource management.

Here are my personal grievances with the system:
  1. The cards you get and there for the moves you can perform are given at random and are pure luck. Whether or not you have the cards needed to get through a boss fight depends on your luck of draw. If you mainly have a deck of 1 to 5s when you face Larxene and so on than you're out of luck. This is probably the biggest one for me.
  2. Limited resources. For me this was always an issue, especially when I was young, when something was limited I was hesitant to use it. I usually didn't like using sleights because that's would rob me of an attack card and the more I'd use them the less I'd have available. Nowadays I'm better and judging when to use them, but I'm still rather conservative in their usage.
  3. Shuffling through the deck to get the right card in time to block. This is more an issue earlier on in the game than latter when you should have more 0 cards. Still I was always really stressed trying to find the right card to cancel an attack.
  4. Regular attacks being restricted. You can only attack as much as you have cards in your deck, put a lot of high number cards in your deck to be harder to block, load more, put in fewer to perform more attacks, get blocked all the time. I know this is part of the games strategy, but as a kid this was really frustrating because it felt like there was not good middle ground.

The system isn't bad, but I definitely enjoy it less than the other battle systems the series has had so far.
 

Grey Skies

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I think people just don't like being expected to do any sort of math when playing a game, especially when doing it quickly is important. I can also understand why some people would be irked by having to create decks effectively and plan out what sleights to use.

I myself think the card system was brilliant. I'm very good at basic math and I quickly discovered how to set up and use an effective deck. I find it to be a very exciting and rewarding system.
 
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I'm replaying that right now (trying to get Riku to 99 and it's taking forever), and so I can dive into this and say my brain doesn't work fast enough for it. I can't "math" that fast. I'm talking about bosses like Marluxia, of course. They do those combos and I can't add them up quick enough in my head to counter them. I hate how you run out of cards. You have to try and remember what you used. If you don't use a high enough combo with the elixirs they will break your combo and you'll lose the elixir and have to start again. I also hate how when I'm low on health and I go for a Mickey heal on Riku it turns me into dark mode and I lose my Mickey. It's just a very frustrating game.
 

Sean Wheeler

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It's more like we're used to the button mashing in combat, but because our button mashing attack combos are limited to Attack Cards and we would very likely put some Magic Cards in our decks, we have to watch our cards to make sure we don't accidentally cast Magic like Fire or Cure.
 

WaltK

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The math angle is only a small part of it for me.

There’s also the crap ton of card combinations you need to memorise in order to do certain special attacks, and trying to order the cards in a certain way.

It’s also just really finicky trying to sort through your stack looking for the right cards and making sure it’s the right number in a fast-paced battle environment.

I just can’t grasp it. And that makes the game borderline unplayable for me.
 
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i enjoyed the card system on Sora's side more than Riku's. in R/R theres a world where they literally give you like 7 really bad cards i think it was wonderland. playing on proud was annoying especially when Mickey's card wouldn't spawn to heal you making some battles harder than normal but i enjoyed Sora's side where you can customize cards. my favorite cards to spam was megaflare especially in DI to help level up for the final Riku battle which was harder than the first 3 and Marluxia. Riku's cards for CO were the best imo cause you were able to mix up a bunch of cards with different numerical values. overall CoM and Re:CoM were enjoyable for GBA and on consoles. it sucks they took out the word hell from Axel's lines in Re:CoM but still a great experience to consider a throwback
 

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weightless, lack of enjoyable impact, best strat is to load up I-frame heavy sleights throughout your whole deck with a few Elixirs. I don't think it's a very fun game to engage with for these reasons. There are a few moves that bosses do that are somewhat enjoyable to dodge, but overall the game feels like it was made quickly.
 

MATGSY

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On one hand, it's the most intricate and strategic battle system of the series. On the other, it wasn't the battle system we wanted. If you were a fan of the first game then you're a fan of a the real time combat and that's what you wanted more of. GBA can do action RPGs, it had some like Sword of Mana and Shining Soul. A KH on GBA having a card battle system was like, oh I don't know, a whole series of Mega Man games on GBA with a card battle system: it just doesn't sound right.
 

Oracle Spockanort

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CoM the GBA game was beautiful and fun to play. The sprites were amazing, the sound quality was amazing for such a small game, the story was intriguing, and the gameplay fit the scope of the console it was on.

Re:CoM is clunky and so, so slow without any meaningful weight to the combat. The camera is too stiff, it’s a chore having to explore the rooms, and it’s just not enjoyable to play. I also find the story script to be weaker than CoM’s.
 

Soldier

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Personally, I don't really have much of issue with the card system so much as the cards themselves. A lot of them in RECOM take their abilities from the GBA game, immunities and all. A perfect example is Hook's card, which bestows you with second chance after using it. Great ability, essential in most fights like Marluxia or Larxene. However, It comes with hook's trademark strengths (Immunity to lightning magic) and his weakness (fire). In the GBA game there was a multiplayer battle mode where this card easily reigned supreme, endure a almost guaranteed defeat and throw lightning users off their game? great!

But in RECOM, it's useful against... Larxene and Yellow Operas? and wizards I guess? And absolutely terrible against Axel.
 

Clue.Less

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The math angle is only a small part of it for me.

There’s also the crap ton of card combinations you need to memorise in order to do certain special attacks, and trying to order the cards in a certain way.

It’s also just really finicky trying to sort through your stack looking for the right cards and making sure it’s the right number in a fast-paced battle environment.

I just can’t grasp it. And that makes the game borderline unplayable for me.

This. I gave up after a while because of a combination of constantly mixing up up and down in the deck while trying to block and hitting the wrong cards, and not figuring out how to launch the combos, which made me feel really stupid. There are too many contradictory brain operations required of me in this game and getting hit and killed before I have time to figure out the gameplay was not a pleasant experience. I couldn't even beat Axel on easy mode. (And I am very good at maths, btw.) And I felt limited, dependent on luck, the menu made me want to spend as little time as possible building decks (which kind of defeats the purpose), and so on and so forth. Everything AdrianXXII pointed out.

I got into video games with FFX where you can think about your next move for 30 minutes if you feel like it; I got into games through magic the gathering where you also have a little time to think; and I got into KH for the story, the level exploration, and the real time action that doesn't require too much thinking; and that's what I want on my TV screen. When I play real-time action I want to hack at stuff with a sword or blast them with magic, not play cards, and when I play cards I don't want to get punished for taking my time, so Re:Com is frustrating on all accounts. (And again, when I play video games, especially on the PS4, I really don't want to be playing cards :ROFLMAO:)

But that's just me, and I do plan on giving that gameplay another try someday. I am actually jealous of the people who enjoy the gameplay because there's this one KH game that I couldn't play through myself :(

I regret not buying CoM on GBA back in the day. I think I would have liked figuring it out on GBA. Back then I thought I'd wait until they released it on Play Station...

CoM the GBA game was beautiful and fun to play. The sprites were amazing, the sound quality was amazing for such a small game, the story was intriguing, and the gameplay fit the scope of the console it was on.

Re:CoM is clunky and so, so slow without any meaningful weight to the combat. The camera is too stiff, it’s a chore having to explore the rooms, and it’s just not enjoyable to play. I also find the story script to be weaker than CoM’s.

What's different about the story script?
 

SweetYetSalty

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Like many have already stated, the card battle system is not a bad idea, I just didn't like how it was done. I have never played the original GBA COM, only the PS2 ReCom. I'm sure it's better on the GBA but the PS2 remake, I can't stand it. I made it up to Wonderland and couldn't get passed the Queen of Hearts's cards soldiers, ironic I know. And even getting up to that point I wasn't really having any fun with this style. So when I hit that brick wall, I was not motivated to get better, I just looked up the cutscenes online and that was it.

I do like the concept of battle cards. I played the entire Mega Man Battle Network series on my GBA and it's incredibly fun. These two are actually quite similar in how they work in a way. The difference is Battle Network game gives you a time gauge to select your cards/chips you want to use and plan out your strategy while time on the battlefield is frozen until you are ready. And even if you do waste the cards/chips you selected, you do have a default attack and charge attack so you aren't just sitting there and dodging until your cards refill. ReCom you have to do all that thinking while the enemy is coming at you, and they can break your regular Kingdom Key attacks, forcing you to dodge and reload. You should at least have a wait command option while you figure out what you want to do. Not every gamer can think on their feet like that especially from transitioning from KH1 to this title, and your primary means to attack are now so limited.

ReCom to me is the most clunky KH game I have ever played, and the only title I refuse to return to. I'm glad KH still experiments with different styles for their side games. Melody of Memory is a huge gem of a game to me, and the anti-Chain of Memories. For those that are good at ReCom, you have my respect. I wish I could get into it, and maybe I could. But if I'm not having fun then why play? I already know the story, and have no desire to master this game. As tedious as some games like Days and BBS can be for me, I still had a overall fun time with them. With ReCom I simply didn't. Maybe I should try the original GBA version and see if I like it. I hope KH continues to experiment new styles regardless of this one.
 
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