What do you think of 358/2 Days?
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Actually I don't feel like Days is story-oriented AT ALL.
I mean, I've watched the 1.5 version and I just felt like the only relevant things were
- Roxas obliviousness
- Xion's suffering
- Axel being the dick no matter what he does
Like, what IS the story of the game?
"I'm just a puppet I need to die" - "Nooo you mah friend ;_;" - "nobodies have feelings even tho they don't have hearts" (<- which, at the current point in the story, became completely redundant anyways).
I really...I'm sorry, but I don't see much more in this game.
Sorry :biggrin:, just have to shortly chime in here.
This part is something that is called "foreshadowing" as in order to be capable of having feelings you need a heart.
Both KH 2 and Days constantly play with the notion of it getting thrown around everywhere that "Nobodies don't have hearts" and yet portray visual cues hinting at the opposite more often than not.
It was kept ambigious and open to interpretation back then until DDD finally threw the ambiguity out of the window and confirmed that yes, these visual cues and instances of Nobodies apparently showing emotion were not flukes and the status of a Nobody not having a heart is not permanently set in stone.
An ambigious situation being clarified does not automatically make the events surrounding the situation redundant.
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Actually, these seeds were sown all the way back in CoM, notably with Axel's line "Now THIS should be interesting. Try and make it enjoyable, Sora. It's the least you can do for me, you know. Wait a sec, I'm actually enjoying this, you guys are something else."
Also things like Larxene being sadistic and vindictive, Vexen begging for his "life," etc.
I completely agree regarding KH2, but sorry, Days - in my opinion - tried way too hard with this "we aren't real people because we don't have hearts OUR WHOLE "LIVES" ARE SO SAD ;_;"-ish kinda feeling for me to agree.
Like, Days wanted to force the players to feel sooo sorry for those poor creatures because they aren't even real and buuhuuhuh and when 3D confirmed that their reason for feeling incomplete was never even set in stone, it took the last piece of worth Days held in my opinion.
Of course you're right, the whole premise was already set in CoM and Axel himself was certainly surprised at the notion and actually places his hand on his chest in that scene.
Sora mentioning about the Riku Replica also having his own heart that belongs only to him also fits into that notion, that's why I am not accepting it when there come people around that cry about "retcon" or "changing the story" in terms of this whole hearts-issue.
There wasn't anything set in stone and the hints are all there if one is capable of noticing them. Both Re: Coded and DDD only deepened and finally cleared up this whole concept, they didn't change/retcon any already firmly established facts.
In CoM it was just more subtle and not pushed to the forefront as much as in KH 2 and Days because the latter two had also constantly the "brainwashing mantra" thrown around by both the villains and some "mentor-figures" like both DiZ (who was actually the only one besides Xemnas, Xehanort and Xigbar to decisively know better) and Yen Sid that Nobodies can't feel and that it is all a lie etc. to show the contrast more openly.
Now we know that it was a real brainwashing mantra because Xemnas and Xehanort were deliberately out to have people deny their own identities to prevent a new heart from growing.
EDIT:
That Days tried too hard when it comes to the whole drama stuff counts in general though, it doesn't invalidate that the themes and build up concepts were largely geared towards the same issue as KH 2's from a different viewpoint.
The reason for feeling incomplete however wasn't even changed by DDD at all. If anything DDD gives another gut-punch to the already overdramatic story of Days because with DDD we now know it is all an even bigger web of lies and deceit done only for the benefit of the goals of one single person.
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Roxas and Xion struggling to both form a sense of identity and discover the truth surrounding their origins while being manipulated and lied to by everyone around them. The story starts both protagonists off as "blank slates" and uses the opportunity to reexamine central themes and questions which have run through the series (most importantly the nature of the heart) from the ground up, subsequently both challenging established tropes of the unreliable narrative which had been perpetuated up to that point (i.e. Nobodies can't feel emotions) and introducing new theories into the series' universal mythos (hearts don't exist in a vacuum, our sense of self comes from how well connected we are with others). It also develops the most solid trio of friendships in the game, with each character having their own specific crises rooted in a story arc which is reflective of their personal history and which ultimately pit them against each other through a tragedy of circumstances where none of them are really at fault (unlike BBS, where everyone is at fault).
Days is about the intimate, human, one-on-one details of the KH universe. That's the beauty of its story.
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Good point, but I found Roxas's constant whining about Xion, Axel lying about everything, and Xion constantly trying to run away annoying but who am I to judge.
Uhm, no offense but...what?
I know they're supposed to be super good friends, but permanently running away (Xion) or blaming others for whatever bad thing happens (Roxas) or lying to your friends all the time (Axel)...I found it almost as fake as TAV so I'm quite surprised you see it as solid. :s
I also wouldn't say that no one is at fault. Again, talking over things would've helped this trio a lot, too, instead of whining or separating from each other.
That's valid, but as a matter of the quality of the writing, it's not a question of their specific qualities being admirable so much as consistent with their arcs, which is what I was getting at. Roxas worries incessantly about Xion (and Axel, mind) because he's insecure about his connections with others. Axel lies because he's stuck as a middle man between Saix's demands as a "friend" and Xemnas's demands as a superior and his desire to be a genuine friend to both Roxas and Xion: he wants to protect them and himself but he's overburdened with disparate senses of duty to others which can not mutually co-exist. Xion tries to run because she can't trust anybody and feels like her existence is a burden-- as a "mirror image" of Roxas she inverts many of his thematic developments so while he starts off trusting everyone because he doesn't know any better and getting burned throughout the whole game, Xion grows suspicious early on and escapes to play detective, culminating in an understanding of who she is and the realization that Roxas and Axel were looking out for her the whole time. She learns to trust them as friends and recognizes the importance of self-sacrifice for a greater good, while Roxas grows bitter at his loss and tries to take up the mantle of martyr (the role Xion actually fulfilled) by going on a suicide mission to confront the Organization.
Okay others (most notably alexis.anagram) have replied in my absence much better than I could've regarding one thing that you brought up, which wasn't really my point at all. I find them defending Days' story which you seem to be criticizing- which is valid! But what I was trying to point out in why I like this game more than the others is how central the game's story is to the whole...game itself?
Idk how to explain it so I'll give it another shot, but like in terms of major plot points being covered in KH2 you have Roxas's prologues, some of Sora's beginning cutscenes....then nothing until the big battle at Hollow Bastion. Then another whole lot of nothing in terms of major plot points until you get to Twilight Town and The World That Never Was and end the game. There was a lot going on in KH2, and a huge cast of characters with the Disney worlds added in.
Now admittedly I haven't played the actual DS game! I've only watched the cutscenes, but from what I can tell the story- whether it's good or not- it sort of the epicenter of the game. The missions and everything don't seem like they distract from the main plot like (sadly) the Disney worlds in KH2 do. From the sheer amount of cutscenes and daily journal entries and whatnot, you watch the plot develop before your eyes, unlike the KH2's rocky plot development.
And that's what I meant was why I prefer Days over much of the rest of the series, because the reason I picked up KH to begin with was because I was so enchanted by the story! I'm not much of a gamer, so whether the gameplay is challenging or not, or the magic or the platforming are done well- they're all important to me, but they're secondary to the plot that I play these games for.
So yeah I get that the plot could be seen as dumb, overdone or poorly written, but to me this game seems the most invested in its own plot, which makes it a solid game to me :redface:
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Whether or not the RAX trio is the "best" is up to debate and personal opinion. However, I do believe that they're more developed as an actual trio than both SRK and TAV. The former almost completely neglects Kairi to the point that you might as well call it a duo, while the latter does a whole lotta telling and very little showing of this supposed "super strong bond" that those three have. (Oh, and during the few times we see em together, they're usually bickering because of Idiot Ball. Either that or Ven's asking Aqua and Terra to kill him. :I)
RAX trio didn't have a perfect friendship and each person could act questionably or infuriatingly, but that doesn't seem very unusual given how real-life friendships can sometimes go.
Oh, that's the other problem people have. You wouldn't know this, having experienced this in a fairly streamlined cutscene movie, but the gameplay makes the game's story progress fairly consistently, but very slowly. Some of those missions can be real drags. Like Halloween Town. Diddly that place with its stupid hidden Heartless and all the mechanics built around that detail. Diddly the Leechgrave and all those monsters with stats like a friggin' Blissey. whtvniweutsnftwvejsuv
... Anyways. I get what you're saying about being enthralled by the story, I can personally relate to that. And even if the story's content was basically a second-rate fanfiction, it at least feels more put-together and focused than KHII, whose story looks like it was written by several different teams with each one having no idea what the others were doing.
RAX trio didn't have a perfect friendship and each person could act questionably or infuriatingly, but that doesn't seem very unusual given how real-life friendships can sometimes go.
I can tell you, as someone who has played the actual game (way too many times to count...) that the movie omitted A LOT of content from the games. The main story was spread and progressed far more evenly than KHII, but it still had a lot of stuff that wasn't really story-important all throughout the game. This came in the form of missions, the main source of gameplay, and one of the main things that people whine about when talking about Days. It's understandable too, because they typically boil down to "kill this enemy/meet this objective" while the main plot happens around them. Slowly.Okay others (most notably alexis.anagram) have replied in my absence much better than I could've regarding one thing that you brought up, which wasn't really my point at all. I find them defending Days' story which you seem to be criticizing- which is valid! But what I was trying to point out in why I like this game more than the others is how central the game's story is to the whole...game itself?
Idk how to explain it so I'll give it another shot, but like in terms of major plot points being covered in KH2 you have Roxas's prologues, some of Sora's beginning cutscenes....then nothing until the big battle at Hollow Bastion. Then another whole lot of nothing in terms of major plot points until you get to Twilight Town and The World That Never Was and end the game. There was a lot going on in KH2, and a huge cast of characters with the Disney worlds added in.
Now admittedly I haven't played the actual DS game! I've only watched the cutscenes, but from what I can tell the story- whether it's good or not- it sort of the epicenter of the game. The missions and everything don't seem like they distract from the main plot like (sadly) the Disney worlds in KH2 do. From the sheer amount of cutscenes and daily journal entries and whatnot, you watch the plot develop before your eyes, unlike the KH2's rocky plot development.
And that's what I meant was why I prefer Days over much of the rest of the series, because the reason I picked up KH to begin with was because I was so enchanted by the story! I'm not much of a gamer, so whether the gameplay is challenging or not, or the magic or the platforming are done well- they're all important to me, but they're secondary to the plot that I play these games for.
So yeah I get that the plot could be seen as dumb, overdone or poorly written, but to me this game seems the most invested in its own plot, which makes it a solid game to me :redface:
Oh, that's the other problem people have. You wouldn't know this, having experienced this in a fairly streamlined cutscene movie, but the gameplay makes the game's story progress fairly consistently, but very slowly. Some of those missions can be real drags. Like Halloween Town. Diddly that place with its stupid hidden Heartless and all the mechanics built around that detail. Diddly the Leechgrave and all those monsters with stats like a friggin' Blissey. whtvniweutsnftwvejsuv
... Anyways. I get what you're saying about being enthralled by the story, I can personally relate to that. And even if the story's content was basically a second-rate fanfiction, it at least feels more put-together and focused than KHII, whose story looks like it was written by several different teams with each one having no idea what the others were doing.
Actually, that has been stated by a lot of people on here XD
As for Days:
Well, compressing a 30+-hour game into a 3-4 hour movie of course results in many "filler" things being left out.
What I'm trying to say is: I do suppose that if KH1 or KH2 were remade as movies as well, they'd be filled with a lot more story than Days. But then again, it's just opinions and I won't begrudge you liking the game or movie.
I actually disagree on that when it comes to KH2, just because that'd mean you having to filter out at least 95% of the cutscenes from the Disney worlds which makes up the bulk of the game's cutscenes. It'd kind of be like watching Sora's story from COM on Theatre Mode VS. Riku's, since Riku's Theatre Mode only featured what happened in Castle Oblivion's weird hallways (main plot) whereas Sora's had three main plot scenes to every chapter's seven odd Disney-related cutscenes....which is still doing better at being relevant to the main plot than KH2 come to think of it!
I agree with you when it comes to KHI, but I digress. This is a thread to discuss personal preferences so I guess we're all in the right here?
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I saw a post on Tumblr as to why the movie is inferior and how it leaves central themes from the games.
I will forever hate the days movie because they omit Roxas beating the shit out of Saix
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