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What did you think of nobodies being able to grow hearts? as well as your opinion on Xemnas's "True" goal being to turn the Org into Xehanorts?



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EliDZ

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Did you like it, or would you have rather it not have been a thing.
Did you like the way it was delivered, or was it in bad taste.
Did it change your perspective on characters like DiZ, Xemnas, and Sora?
Do you think it was a retcon or always planned?
I have a video planned where I theorize that Xemnas actually had goal that different then what we were previously led to believe. I'd love to know what you guys thought when the twist was revealed back when DDD came out, and how it may differ now.
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Drawn by Melina Chortatou
P.S. Does anyone know if The original plan was to give just the 13 org members their own hearts, or was it to be that all nobodies would get a heart. If anyone can pin point where in the series this info is revealed it'd be super helpful.







I'll post my opinion down, here out of the way of the OP.

At first I thought it was a retcon and took a way from sympathize with the org. Then I realized most of the org was under the impression they had no heart so then I focused onto Xemnas, Saix, and Xigbar.

Xigbar never even seemed all that interested in KH2 with having a heart. In hindsight it makes sense as to why not.
Saix was clearly forcing himself to keep his emotions hidden. His last line is still confusing. "Kingdom Hearts, where is my Heart?"
Xemnas at first was someone that you could kind of feel bad about since he was just trying to get back hearts for his people. But not only was that supposedly not true, it completely undermined him as an individual. Without his own goal he was just be another one of Xehanort's chess pieces.

It really shows how cruel DiZ was, it's shown he is trying to atone for his sins. It goes to show even someone as wise as Ansem can be foolish.

When you consider that Roxas had a heart it was very unheroic for Sora to take away his life. I'm glad this was solved in KH3.

Overall it felt like retcon and left a bad taste in my mouth at first, but over time it started to become clear that there was more thought that went into this. This was until KH3 where I realized Xemnas wasn't just Xehanort's chess piece. he actually had a motive of his own. A true goal never revealed because it was never explicitly stated. I can't wait to put all the clues together and present t to you guys.
 
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okhi12

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I don't like the 'nobodies can grow hearts' thing at all. Roxas and Xion were supposed to be special nobodies (Xion is a replica, but still) because they wield a keyblade and didn't remember their past, but they were more special because they could feel emotions they weren't supposed to, like friendship. Axel could feel it too, but he thought that was due to him remembering what feeling was like (aaand because Roxas was like his old friend for a day, Ven).
Sure, 358/2 Days gave us clues to conclude that Xemnas was lying when he told the org members that they couldn't feel anything and they needed to be recompleted with the artificial kingdom hearts' power, but my point here is that by then the only nobodies that showed complex, positive feelings such as friendship were the seasalt trio, due to the special bond between them. And I thought that was possible not because they grew hearts but because Sora's bonding-with-people power was carried over to Roxas and Xion, and maybe Naminé (or her case could be attributed to her being a PoH's nobody).The other org members were either inhuman jerks or indifferent towards almost everything and could only feel simple, negative feelings such as wrath (Larxene) or fear (Vexen before Axel killed him) which are not what I consider true complex feelings but more like simple instinctive emotions needed to survive (although Luxord and Demyx were very human-like dudes and didn't seem very nobodish, oh well). That is how I understood the 'nobodies don't feel' nonsense, because it was the only logical explanation I could come to that somehow gave some sense to the contradicting info about nobodies. Then BBS came out, with Ventus looking like Roxas and Sora joining his heart with him and I never really understood if Roxas had Ven's heart or not (and I still don't understand that) or if he could feel because of Ven or Sora or whatever Roxas actually was. I guess it will never be fully explained.
The thing is that the revelation in DDD that nobodies grow hearts felt (to me) just like a poor excuse to try to address the obvious incoherences of the games about nobodies randomly feeling and not feeling, as well as a cheap way to give Roxas, Xion and Naminé existences on their own when they shouldn't actually have full hearts and insteafd were just a part of Sora's (or Ven's ?) and Kairi's. As much as I like Roxas and Xion and I'm glad for them the KH series depends too much on half retcons and deus ex revelations for plot convenience instead of good (or at least consistent) writing. I don't think the KH series is the convoluted mess many people seem to think it is, but it for sure has serious issues that I can only forgive as a fan but not blindly justify.
 

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Fun story in that I played Days and Re:coded before KH2, so I went into KH2 already thinking anything could grow a heart since Data-Sora could, and for me it was very obvious between KH2 and Days that Axel could feel, and while you could explain away Roxas and Xion and Naminé for various reasons, you need to go overboard for Axel. And I think it reaches a point where when you have to keep creating excuses in order for "Nobodies don't have hearts" to work, it's because there's something wrong with that fact.

So, for me, Days and Re:coded are the games who confirmed it. DDD only had the characters learn something I felt the audience already knew.
 

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I don't like the 'nobodies can grow hearts' thing at all. Roxas and Xion were supposed to be special nobodies (Xion is a replica, but still) because they wield a keyblade and didn't remember their past, but they were more special because they could feel emotions they weren't supposed to, like friendship. Axel could feel it too, but he thought that was due to him remembering what feeling was like (aaand because Roxas was like his old friend for a day, Ven).
Sure, 358/2 Days gave us clues to conclude that Xemnas was lying when he told the org members that they couldn't feel anything and they needed to be recompleted with the artificial kingdom hearts' power, but my point here is that by then the only nobodies that showed complex, positive feelings such as friendship were the seasalt trio, due to the special bond between them. And I thought that was possible not because they grew hearts but because Sora's bonding-with-people power was carried over to Roxas and Xion, and maybe Naminé (or her case could be attributed to her being a PoH's nobody).The other org members were either inhuman jerks or indifferent towards almost everything and could only feel simple, negative feelings such as wrath (Larxene) or fear (Vexen before Axel killed him) which are not what I consider true complex feelings but more like simple instinctive emotions needed to survive (although Luxord and Demyx were very human-like dudes and didn't seem very nobodish, oh well). That is how I understood the 'nobodies don't feel' nonsense, because it was the only logical explanation I could come to that somehow gave some sense to the contradicting info about nobodies. Then BBS came out, with Ventus looking like Roxas and Sora joining his heart with him and I never really understood if Roxas had Ven's heart or not (and I still don't understand that) or if he could feel because of Ven or Sora or whatever Roxas actually was. I guess it will never be fully explained.
The thing is that the revelation in DDD that nobodies grow hearts felt (to me) just like a poor excuse to try to address the obvious incoherences of the games about nobodies randomly feeling and not feeling, as well as a cheap way to give Roxas, Xion and Naminé existences on their own when they shouldn't actually have full hearts and insteafd were just a part of Sora's (or Ven's ?) and Kairi's. As much as I like Roxas and Xion and I'm glad for them the KH series depends too much on half retcons and deus ex revelations for plot convenience instead of good (or at least consistent) writing. I don't think the KH series is the convoluted mess many people seem to think it is, but it for sure has serious issues that I can only forgive as a fan but not blindly justify.
I couldn't agree with this post. I really didn't like the whole Nobodies growing hearts thing all. It also didn't help that the whole setup was just some ploy so that Master Xehanort can put his into Org XIII people as well as the notorious time travel shenanigans. Was it really necessary to have time travel shenanigans in additions to the Organization growing hearts? I really liked the idea that the Organization members were individuals who lost their hearts and were trying to get their hearts but were manipulated by Xemnas into helping him.
 

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To me it isn't that big of a deal. As Sora says in DDD, "You have to have a heart to cry." Even all the way back during Days it really seemed to imply that Nobodies could somehow obtain a heart of their own. It made it all the more tragic that Roxas and the others didn't know of their hearts.

Xemnas was already using the Organization for his own goals even without this, so in no way does this change make the Organization feel cheaper. The only ones who would know are the ones who were already Xehanort at the time: Xemnas, Xigbar, and Saix presumably after Days (because during that game even he didn't seem to understand Xemnas' motives yet) the rest didn't know, and either craved the heart they thought was lost or shunned the concept entirely.

Also, how in the heck would Roxas return with no heart and with Sora remaining complete?
 

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People predicted some Nobodies having Hearts before Days. Kingdom Hearts 2FM is purposely contradicting. What we’re told and what we see doesn’t match.

The DDD revelation wasn’t that shocking to many, it was confirmation to what some knew.

Thematically it didn’t make sense for Nobodies to NOT grow Hearts. Since Kingdom Hearts 1 with Pinocchio, we’ve had examples of “hollow” beings that got Hearts. There’s also that infamous scene in CoM with Axel chuckling. The clues were all there.

The Recusant Sigil revelation was more shocking to me, so to answer the question I was fine with the “reveal”.
 

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It'd be a lot easier to take if Nomura never said Roxas and Namine were special.

Like as it's been pointed out, Nobodies not having hearts has been contradicted plenty of times, and since the first game we've had a case of a being who technically shouldn't have a heart yet does, so it'd actually be pretty weird if Nobodies couldn't grow hearts.

However, the idea of beings who truly couldn't feel emotion was an interesting concept, and I believe some early contradictions was from Nomura not really knowing how to make it work so from KH2FM on he went with them being able to grow hearts.
 

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I don't like the idea of the nobodies growing hearts IE becoming their own person, separate from the original. If it was something like they grow hearts to mimic their old life -- or something that didn't make them "their own person" I would get. Roxas, Xion, and Namine are special, so I get why they're different, but it's just strange to think that Axel, Saix, Marluxia etc. were becoming their own people. Especially when you think about them becoming nobodies again and then the heart re-growing... like how many people can you make?

I actually loved the "true Organization" twist. It made so much sense with the 7 Princesses of Heart and Organization XIII. I didn't really like the implementation of the new Organization in KH3 because I was hoping for about 5 Xehanort clones and the rest being Disney/Final Fantasy characters.
 

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I don't like the idea of the nobodies growing hearts IE becoming their own person, separate from the original. If it was something like they grow hearts to mimic their old life -- or something that didn't make them "their own person" I would get. Roxas, Xion, and Namine are special, so I get why they're different, but it's just strange to think that Axel, Saix, Marluxia etc. were becoming their own people. Especially when you think about them becoming nobodies again and then the heart re-growing... like how many people can you make?

I actually loved the "true Organization" twist. It made so much sense with the 7 Princesses of Heart and Organization XIII. I didn't really like the implementation of the new Organization in KH3 because I was hoping for about 5 Xehanort clones and the rest being Disney/Final Fantasy characters.
Roxas and Xion (and presumably Namine, but she's weird) were becoming their own person because they had no previous identity, unlike the other Org. XIII members who all had their memories from when they were whole. They've always been more of an extension of their original selves. So I don't believe they were becoming their own person separate from their original selves, but more like making a copy that get's added back to the original when they recomplete. This'd also explain why Roxas, Xion, and Namine can coexist with Sora and Kairi while the others don't.
 

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Roxas and Xion (and presumably Namine, but she's weird) were becoming their own person because they had no previous identity, unlike the other Org. XIII members who all had their memories from when they were whole. They've always been more of an extension of their original selves. So I don't believe they were becoming their own person separate from their original selves, but more like making a copy that get's added back to the original when they recomplete. This'd also explain why Roxas, Xion, and Namine can coexist with Sora and Kairi while the others don't.
That's the weird thing is that they called it "growing hearts". Which means if they transferred "Axel"s heart into a replica, then killed Lea's heartless and nobody... there would be Lea and "Axel". I get that Roxas, Namine, and Xion were different/special, but they should have left it at that... they're special, so they're growing hearts. I thought it was already understood that nobodies like the Organization members retained their memories, but no emotions due to no heart -- which I thought added to their characters, the ones that wanted to feel would search their memories and try to re-enact emotion (like Axel seemingly was in KH2) while others remained cold and emotionless like Saix. Now that they all had hearts, that cool aspect of the nobodies disappeared.

The only thing that the growing hearts thing really added a sort of sick and cruel twist to was the whole Xehanort putting himself in 13 bodies. He knew that the Organization members were growing hearts, but he still was going to erase them. Even though that was disturbing, I liked it because it made Master Xehanort more evil to me and added to his madness.
 

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That's the weird thing is that they called it "growing hearts". Which means if they transferred "Axel"s heart into a replica, then killed Lea's heartless and nobody... there would be Lea and "Axel". I get that Roxas, Namine, and Xion were different/special, but they should have left it at that... they're special, so they're growing hearts. I thought it was already understood that nobodies like the Organization members retained their memories, but no emotions due to no heart -- which I thought added to their characters, the ones that wanted to feel would search their memories and try to re-enact emotion (like Axel seemingly was in KH2) while others remained cold and emotionless like Saix. Now that they all had hearts, that cool aspect of the nobodies disappeared.

The only thing that the growing hearts thing really added a sort of sick and cruel twist to was the whole Xehanort putting himself in 13 bodies. He knew that the Organization members were growing hearts, but he still was going to erase them. Even though that was disturbing, I liked it because it made Master Xehanort more evil to me and added to his madness.
Suffice to say, they were never really going to stay emotionless entities for the rest of the series. It does kind of make me wonder if they ever confronted their own Heartless and released the Heart that was captured?
 

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To me it didn't feel like much of a twist, just a confirmation to what was being implied. And I'm under the impression that not all of the Nobodies actually were regrowing hearts. From the Lore we've seen so far for things to grow hearts others would have to interact with them and see the hearts in them. Which gives the fact that the Org wanted to minimize the interactions between it's members and regular people, this would slow down the development of the hearts.

Also the fact that most members were told they didn't have hearts and all the feelings they thought they were feeling was them just remembering it, which I'd also imagine to stifle the development of a heart.

Also I feel like Roxas, Naminé and Xion still do qualify to be extra special Nobodies, seeing one of them is a Replica and the other two have multiple people who effected their creation. All other special Nobodies look just like their complete Self, minus one or two minor things, but Roxas and Naminé have completely different hair colors.
 

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That's the weird thing is that they called it "growing hearts". Which means if they transferred "Axel"s heart into a replica, then killed Lea's heartless and nobody... there would be Lea and "Axel".
Well, it's a good thing Nomura never noticed this. Just think of all the other clones we could have had!

But now I'm disappointed we didn't have something, like say, their budding hearts being extracted without their knowledge that'd either be immediately destroyed or used in experiments.
 

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Well, it's a good thing Nomura never noticed this. Just think of all the other clones we could have had!

But now I'm disappointed we didn't have something, like say, their budding hearts being extracted without their knowledge that'd either be immediately destroyed or used in experiments.
I'm kind of hoping that happened to Saix. That would make me like his character more. Like we don't realize what he had to endure to gain Xemnas' trust to get information on Girl X.
 

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I have a strong issue with it because it hits on a bigger one that I have with the entire series.

It's writing spends most of its time retconning established lore and characterization.

The story of Kingdom Hearts has no lasting mythology, and RULES that govern it, because anything can and WILL be changed.

Nomura uses twists for nothing more than for the SAKE of twists existing, and if established lore and characterization has to be torn to pieces to do so then oh well.

This way of writing ruins ANY gravitas of a story because literally anything and everything can and WILL get undone.

LASTING rules and consequences need to exist in a story because otherwise what is the point?

As for this particular topic here are my in depth reasons.

The established lore said that these heartless creatures called Nobodies were only ''emotional'' based on memories of their Others. This was a perfectly fine explanation. They were to be pitied,but feared because they lack hearts, i.e. a conscious, to TRULY choose right from wrong or to feel.

However, the walking tragedies that are Nobodies don't mean anything now.

If they had hearts then not only are they not Nobodies anymore they also cannot be redeemed because they reveled in sociopathy even though they had true emotions, and therefore COULD truly choose right from wrong. We see Vexen, Saix, and Demyx do this VERY thing in KH3.

There is no difference between a Nobody and a human by this point so WHY should I pity their loss of humanity when apparently it was never loss to began with?

Again the lore of Nobodies has been destroyed with this revelation so WHAT ARE THEY? We had Humans, Nobodies, and Data Dolls a.k.a. Replica's,but now its what Humans, Humans, and Replica's? What in the world is a Nobody with a heart? It's a lore contradiction to its core. What are they then?

Furthermore If Nobodies( and dolls apparently) can grow hearts it CAN'T be the original since it’s either a heartless or waiting in limbo for its body.

So if say evil creatures like Saix, Marluxia, Vexen grew a heart then that means.. what that the hearts called Isa, Lauriam,and Even etc are just supposed to say well I guess I’ll just mosey off because my abomination of a body grew a heart of its own now?

If any member had regrown a heart(a CONSCIOUS), but were still behaving like evil psychopaths, than that makes them BIGGER monsters not less.

Basically this development helps fan favorites Roxas, Namine and Xion,but KILLS any sympathy for the others both as characters and towards their unnatural nature.

As for Axel he was an interesting character that wished for a heart like all Nobodies,and it was tragic because the nature of what he is means he didn't truly have one,but thanks to the positive nudge of friendship from the clone of Bonds R Us and a POH he began to remember the good from all that he had lost. A phantom heart if you will,but opps turns out he apparently grew the real deal.

If he truly grew one of his own though then WHY did he still have to die to be human? Who the HELL was that lying comtose on the floor in Dream? Why did ANY of the Organization still have to die to actually be human again if growing a heart means you already are?

Also if Axel grew a heart then that SHOULD mean that when Lea re-merged with his body AXEL should STILL be there. This also should NOW be the case for Terra and Xenmas as well.

So how come nobody was gungho about getting Axel a replica since Lea’s heart took his body back?

I mean it was apparently so DIRE for Roxas, Xion, and Namine to come back so THEY could be their own people after all.

Or let's say a heart merge happened instead then that being STILL wouldn't be Axel. Nor would he be Lea.

However, the question then becomes if a merge was good enough to do to him then why wasn't it good enough to do with the other favorites as well?

Sora Sue said anything and everything can have a heart right? So WHERE are the replicas for Data's Sora, Riku, Namine and Roxas?

Again where’s Axel’s replica?

WHY did the Riku Replica have to die for Namine?

If the other Nobodies grew hearts to where's their replica?

The god named Vexen made loads of synthetic people that would be human with a heart right? I'm not sure where the SOUL would come into play with that,but whateves come on Nomura Vessels-Ex Machina for everybody.

Even if you are literally DATA you can get a heart to, but apparently NOT a body. Seems that one only works for favorites.

Again the lore of the series just changes on a dime. There are no consistent rules. Nothing truly makes sense because how can it when THERE ARE NO RULES.

These are just some examples of the writing quagmire that opens up when your series lore is the perfect manifestation of whatever the plot(or fanservice) demands.

Next there's Roxas, Xion and Namine.

Roxas came into existence (as a full grown 14 year old) because Sora did something unnatural to himself. His body (Sora’s), soul (Sora’s), and heart (Ven’s), never belonged to him until fanservice deemed it so. His body is now a doll, and his heart grew by lore breaking and fanservice.

Even his physical appearance isn’t his,and the same applies to Namine and Xion. His name also doesn't even belong to him. It’s simply a rearranged Sora with an X. And in Xion’s case even her voice isn’t her’s. It’s LITERALLY Kairi’s.

Also where are Roxas, Namine and Xion’s SOULS? The lore says that’s one of the components of being human so if they are truly people where are they? A soul and a heart are NOT the same in this series so...?

I guess it’s one of those things were not supposed to think about since none of these characters should exist anymore, and lore pretzel jumping had to happen for it to even be feasible.

Roxas had Ven's heart said out of Nomura's own mouth and Namine's existence makes no sense in the first place since her Other is a Princess of Heart. However, she remembered being Kairi and I'm sure being the Nobody of a POH didn't hurt.

However, even if Roxas didn't have Ven's heart, and Namine and he both didn't remember who they used to be, the fact that they are the ONLY two Nobodies with their Others still walking around was enough to just say they were FEEDING off of Sora(Bonds R Us) and Kairi(POH),but true humanity still meant being whole.

They both even literally started DISAPPEARING just being around their Others. If they were always meant to exist as their own people then what was that?

There was no reason to give them hearts like they just grow on trees.

Xion, and the Riku Replica, were simply memories vie data attached to a doll. Which we creepily finally get to see in KH3. Since memories and emotions are linked in this series I guess you could say they were data versions of Nobodies. She is made up of MEMORIES. Her existence is more of abomination than any Nobody because at least they were human once. She never was. She breaks into fragments, and goes back to where she belongs. In Sora.

Namine point blanks says that since Xion is born from memories no one will remember her because there would be no HER to remember. Until SUDDENLY there is. Nomura also said Xion wouldn’t be able to come back in an interview. Fans couldn’t accept that so he reached into his bag of lore retcon, and made a way so she could. Same goes Namine and Roxas.

For these three characters to even exist again Nomura had to play fast and loose with established lore.

Growing hearts, and using replicas to reanimate them, was simply an EXCUSE to bring FAN FAVORITES back from their fates that while sad is also EXACTLY were they were supposed to be.

Now we have clones of Kairi and Sora walking around in the ending because mythology and rules mean whatever, and fans couldn't deal with a more bittersweet taste to a story.
 
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I have a strong issue with it because it hits on a bigger one that I have with the entire series.

It's writing spends most of its time retconning established lore and characterization.

The story of Kingdom Hearts has no lasting mythology, and RULES that govern it, because anything can and WILL be changed.

Nomura uses twists for nothing more than for the SAKE of twists existing, and if established lore and characterization has to be torn to pieces to do so then oh well.

This way of writing ruins ANY gravitas of a story because literally anything and everything can and WILL get undone.

LASTING rules and consequences need to exist in a story because otherwise what is the point?

As for this particular topic here are my in depth reasons.

The established lore said that these heartless creatures called Nobodies were only ''emotional'' based on memories of their Others. This was a perfectly fine explanation. They were to be pitied,but feared because they lack hearts, i.e. a conscious, to TRULY choose right from wrong or to feel.

However, the walking tragedies that are Nobodies don't mean anything now.

If they had hearts then not only are they not Nobodies anymore they also cannot be redeemed because they reveled in sociopathy even though they had true emotions, and therefore COULD truly choose right from wrong. We see Vexen, Saix, and Demyx do this VERY thing in KH3.

There is no difference between a Nobody and a human by this point so WHY should I pity their loss of humanity when apparently it was never loss to began with?

Again the lore of Nobodies has been destroyed with this revelation so WHAT ARE THEY? We had Humans, Nobodies, and Data Dolls a.k.a. Replica's,but now its what Humans, Humans, and Replica's? What in the world is a Nobody with a heart? It's a lore contradiction to its core. What are they then?

Furthermore If Nobodies( and dolls apparently) can grow hearts it CAN'T be the original since it’s either a heartless or waiting in limbo for its body.

So if say evil creatures like Saix, Marluxia, Vexen grew a heart then that means.. what that the hearts called Isa, Lauriam,and Even etc are just supposed to say well I guess I’ll just mosey off because my abomination of a body grew a heart of its own now?

If any member had regrown a heart(a CONSCIOUS), but were still behaving like evil psychopaths, than that makes them BIGGER monsters not less.

Basically this development helps fan favorites Roxas, Namine and Xion,but KILLS any sympathy for the others both as characters and towards their unnatural nature.

As for Axel he was an interesting character that wished for a heart like all Nobodies,and it was tragic because the nature of what he is means he didn't truly have one,but thanks to the positive nudge of friendship from the clone of Bonds R Us and a POH he began to remember the good from all that he had lost. A phantom heart if you will,but opps turns out he apparently grew the real deal.

If he truly grew one of his own though then WHY did he still have to die to be human? Who the HELL was that lying comtose on the floor in Dream? Why did ANY of the Organization still have to die to actually be human again if growing a heart means you already are?

Also if Axel grew a heart then that SHOULD mean that when Lea re-merged with his body AXEL should STILL be there. This also should NOW be the case for Terra and Xenmas as well.

So how come nobody was gungho about getting Axel a replica since Lea’s heart took his body back?

I mean it was apparently so DIRE for Roxas, Xion, and Namine to come back so THEY could be their own people after all.

Or let's say a heart merge happened instead then that being STILL wouldn't be Axel. Nor would he be Lea.

However, the question then becomes if a merge was good enough to do to him then why wasn't it good enough to do with the other favorites as well?

Sora Sue said anything and everything can have a heart right? So WHERE are the replicas for Data's Sora, Riku, Namine and Roxas?

Again where’s Axel’s replica?

WHY did the Riku Replica have to die for Namine?

If the other Nobodies grew hearts to where's their replica?

The god named Vexen made loads of synthetic people that would be human with a heart right? I'm not sure where the SOUL would come into play with that,but whateves come on Nomura Vessels-Ex Machina for everybody.

Even if you are literally DATA you can get a heart to, but apparently NOT a body. Seems that one only works for favorites.

Again the lore of the series just changes on a dime. There are no consistent rules. Nothing truly makes sense because how can it when THERE ARE NO RULES.

These are just some examples of the writing quagmire that opens up when your series lore is the perfect manifestation of whatever the plot(or fanservice) demands.

Next there's Roxas, Xion and Namine.

Roxas came into existence (as a full grown 14 year old) because Sora did something unnatural to himself. His body (Sora’s), soul (Sora’s), and heart (Ven’s), never belonged to him until fanservice deemed it so. His body is now a doll, and his heart grew by lore breaking and fanservice.

Even his physical appearance isn’t his,and the same applies to Namine and Xion. His name also doesn't even belong to him. It’s simply a rearranged Sora with an X. And in Xion’s case even her voice isn’t her’s. It’s LITERALLY Kairi’s.

Also where are Roxas, Namine and Xion’s SOULS? The lore says that’s one of the components of being human so if they are truly people where are they? A soul and a heart are NOT the same in this series so...?

I guess it’s one of those things were not supposed to think about since none of these characters should exist anymore, and lore pretzel jumping had to happen for it to even be feasible.

Roxas had Ven's heart said out of Nomura's own mouth and Namine's existence makes no sense in the first place since her Other is a Princess of Heart. However, she remembered being Kairi and I'm sure being the Nobody of a POH didn't hurt.

However, even if Roxas didn't have Ven's heart, and Namine and he both didn't remember who they used to be, the fact that they are the ONLY two Nobodies with their Others still walking around was enough to just say they were FEEDING off of Sora(Bonds R Us) and Kairi(POH),but true humanity still meant being whole.

They both even literally started DISAPPEARING just being around their Others. If they were always meant to exist as their own people then what was that?

There was no reason to give them hearts like they just grow on trees.

Xion, and the Riku Replica, were simply memories vie data attached to a doll. Which we creepily finally get to see in KH3. Since memories and emotions are linked in this series I guess you could say they were data versions of Nobodies. She is made up of MEMORIES. Her existence is more of abomination than any Nobody because at least they were human once. She never was. She breaks into fragments, and goes back to where she belongs. In Sora.

Namine point blanks says that since Xion is born from memories no one will remember her because there would be no HER to remember. Until SUDDENLY there is. Nomura also said Xion wouldn’t be able to come back in an interview. Fans couldn’t accept that so he reached into his bag of lore retcon, and made a way so she could. Same goes Namine and Roxas.

For these three characters to even exist again Nomura had to play fast and loose with established lore.

Growing hearts, and using replicas to reanimate them, was simply an EXCUSE to bring FAN FAVORITES back from their fates that while sad is also EXACTLY were they were supposed to be.

Now we have clones of Kairi and Sora walking around in the ending because mythology and rules mean whatever, and fans couldn't deal with a more bittersweet taste to a story.
I don't know what to say but that is a lot of points you brought up that I don't all agree with but I can sense your passion in it.
 
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