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What are your thoughts on Sora is the Master of Masters theory? Do you want it to happen?



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Vulpes XIII

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Although a lot of evidence for this theory does make sense, I don’t want this to actually happen as it would just be disappointing in my opinion. We already have enough of ‘this character is actually someone we already know‘ in this series we don’t need another situation like this. I think it would not fit his character as the Master of Masters does not seem to care what happens to other people as long as things go to plan, I could not see a future version of Sora being like this. Another reason why I don’t like this is I want the Master of Masters to be his own character as he is really interesting and as I mentioned earlier if it turned out he was just a older version of Sora I would be disappointed and would probably find the character less interesting. As much as I would like Nomura to make a cool new villain character, Nomura is also the same person who made the Real Organization XIII consist of a lot of the original Organization XIII members ( even though several of them did not fit the criteria for the new Organization in the first place) and everyone else being evil characters that already existed

How would you feel if Sora was the Master of Masters would you like or dislike it and what do you actually think of the theory itself?
 

AR829038

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There's a litany of reasons why I don't want this theory to be true. Not only is it a huge anime cliche to have the main character be forced to face an evil version of himself (though KH is no stranger to anime cliches), but turning Sora into a villain would be a completely ridiculous turn for his character, and it would completely annul all the growth he's gone through over the course of the series. If it's some sort of alternate universe version of Sora where he never met Donald and Goofy and just went down a completely different path, then I could see it a bit better, but I don't believe in any course of events where the Sora we know somehow turns into this distant, manipulative schemer. That's just not who he is and I don't think there's anything that could push him toward that transformation.
Luckily, there's a good amount of evidence to suggest that this theory isn't true, and I'm much more inclined to believe that MoM is actually some sort of semi-divine entity of light that may even be connected to Kingdom Hearts itself in some way.
 

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I think there is zero chance of this happening. And it would require a lot of additional narrative to explain how or why. I wouldn't care if he was sora if it was done in a good way but at this point I don't really think theres any way nomura could convincingly accomplish that.
 

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I honestly think it’s more likely to literally be Nomura-san under that hood than Sora lol

In all honesty though, only half-joking. Thematically, “meet your maker” would be more in tune with the direction things seem to be going. At least, MoM is some kind of in-universe stand-in for the “Author”. Sora is, and always will be, the *main character* - from a meta perspective, it wouldn’t make sense for him to also represent the force in the story that is threatening to break the fourth wall (here manifested ambiguously as “the World of Fiction”). The future of the series is likely to make a lot of commentary on the ontological nature of fiction vs reality and what it means to create/imagine a world. Not that MoM is necessarily the creator of all those realities, but I think that’s what he represents - the implied author behind the script - a script which runs away from him. I’m just not sure it would be thematically consistent for Sora to represent his own creator? But then again who knows. The series has thrown some pretty bizarre curveballs in the past lol
 
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I felt it was a decently strong theory at first but as they've developed the MoM I think they are just setting up the MoM as a thematic foil to Sora. Though I think it's still possible because something still doesn't line up and that's the MoM's backstory.

We had every reason to assume he created the keybade or at least the summoning method, pretty certain Nomura made a comment as such that the MoM is the one who figured out how to draw keyblades out of people. The Foretellers are also supposed to be the precursor to the formal keyblade masters and the MoM is the first of them. Yet now we hear the backstory of the MoM that he was a wielder when he was a kid and fought in a previous keyblade war, and not only that but there were other wielders but to paraphrase him "they don't really matter".

The fact there were two keyblade wars before the KH3 one wasn't a surprise. Many others including myself had speculated there had to have been two wars for awhile now because like serious critical things we knew about the war were missing. For example the X-blade never appearing, never even being mentioned, is a glaring hole. Likewise the story told us hearts were pure light, darkness was born after, and yet the events X showed had darkness being a known force in people's hearts seemingly all ready public knowledge. However some details did lineup like people growing greedy for light and warring over it and the factions described matched the unions decently well. The only way to reconcile the stories is that there must of been two battles, the one with the X-blade and birth of darkness which we hadn't seen, and the one over light split across multiple factions that destroyed the world.

This also explained the keyblade graveyard. It's obviously not a natural wasteland and so for ages it was speculated it was Daybreak Town's ruins. Then X came along and the KG was something that already existed in that state separate which raised questions...questions only further emphasized when KH3 came along and raised a positively massive collection of ruins from it's ground. Showing us there had to be civilization there at some point and it was absolutely decimated before X which worked well with the reveal of that early keyblade war the MoM told us about. However this is where it gets a bit...questionable...

DR revealed something nuts, how the world we know has only existed for about 100-ish years or so. That every world, every Disney character we talked to was a recreation and that in places like Agrabah about 60-ish years ago the world was the only thing rebuilt the people hadn't been re-created yet. Genie who is apparently older than time is just a copy of some previous Genie, all the ancient history isn't so ancient, etc... Now I'm not saying they aren't real, because they are they have their own hearts and bodies and lives they've lived since then. But this is scary because it means our entire grasp of when things took place is completely up in the air.

Is this the first time this happened? If not how many cycles have we been through, do things ever meaningfully change or is the world trapped in some sort of stagnant never-ending spiral? Or worse do things change but none of the differences ever lead to a different outcome in the end? Is anything we've ever experienced been truly real or is it all just fictional, recreations and copies of a word long long gone? If so that throws in a wrench on identity of characters because for all we know if this is a cycle the MoM could be a version of anyone. Like for example Destiny Islands could have existed in the far past, Sora could have been born on it, events could have proceeded very similar and the world ended up destroyed. So he re-created it and things started over, a new Destiny Islands, a new Sora maybee the one we plays as. Not saying that's the case just that it's possible.

I mean it sounds crazy but isn't it weird how the MoM fought in a keyblade war, probably over the X-blade, and NO ONE knows about it? No one acts as there was ever a war in the past and Luxu in fact is very surprised to learn about it. How does that make sense, how does some climactic war of dark and light just fade from memory entirely? I mean we saw that happen with the second war but it wasn't natural, the survivors had the history erased from their memory and were sent to a world the war never happened in with only a handful to maintain the true knowledge. Even then there were small scattered legends....so how come the MoM's war seems to be only known to him? And again why do were there other wielders when he was just a kid, where did they go, why don't they matter?

Also the entirety of X is suspicious because why is there a massive city with hundreds of child wielders? I know shonen anime tropes mean absent parent and all that but this is absurd. It's not simply absent parents it's absent adults period the city is run by children, moogles, and the Fortellers without nary a mention of a previous home or family? Where the heck did all these kids come from, why don't they act as if they have any history before the events that transpired? Heck take our player they just suddenly woke up in Daybreak Town already able to wield the keyblade and didn't seem to understand what was happening they just kind of mindlessly rolled with it. I get a stand-in they don't to define the parentage/history but still we just wake up in a fountain square with no history and no explanation for our ability to use the keyblade. Which as an isolated incident but gets more suspicious when you look at the greater set up of Daybreak Town.

Something doesn't add up here about the MoM's identity and past or the greater past of the world itself.
 

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Is this the first time this happened? If not how many cycles have we been through, do things ever meaningfully change or is the world trapped in some sort of stagnant never-ending spiral?
There’s a user on KH13 who is basically an authority on FF Type-0/Agito (they dug-up/translated the entire available script for the cancelled game) who makes a very compelling argument that KH Ux and moreover much of the direction the franchise is currently taking is very clearly directly inspired by the Type-0/Agito mythos - even possibly quite literally within the same multiverse. I’m not too familiar with that series myself but the gist is that there’s a neverending cycle of war in which the world ends and re-starts, awaiting the chosen “Agito” who will change destiny and finally end the cycle. Granted, this theorist is also a proponent of MoM = Demyx, which I’m not sure I buy into, but to their credit, it’s by far the most convincing/comprehensive MoM = Demyx argument I’ve ever come across. Worth checking out.

 
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OneDandelion

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@Hirokey123 I really think the best explanation behind daybreak town is that the MoM had set the whole thing up over generations as a starting point for his plan. Hence the name "Daybreak" town. At the very least, there was never any reason to assume that the events of Daybreak town are the beginning of the lore or that the children had even been born there.
 

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I honestly think it’s more likely to literally be Nomura-san under that hood than Sora lol

In all honesty though, only half-joking. Thematically, “meet your maker” would be more in tune with the direction things seem to be going. At least, MoM is some kind of in-universe stand-in for the “Author”. Sora is, and always will be, the *main character* - from a meta perspective, it wouldn’t make sense for him to also represent the force in the story that is threatening to break the fourth wall (here manifested ambiguously as “the World of Fiction”). The future of the series is likely to make a lot of commentary on the ontological nature of fiction vs reality and what it means to create/imagine a world. Not that MoM is necessarily the creator of all those realities, but I think that’s what he represents - the implied author behind the script - a script which runs away from him. I’m just not sure it would be thematically consistent for Sora to represent his own creator? But then again who knows. The series has thrown some pretty bizarre curveballs in the past lol
I totally agree with the Nomura idea. There are several conversations between The MoM and Luxu in KHUX where the MoM clearly represents Nomura's perspective and Luxu represents the fandom's. Not to mention the MoM literally wrote the Book of Prophecies—he essentially wrote the whole story of Kingdom Hearts before it happened. I also often think about the time an interviewer asked which keyblade Nomura would use, and he answered that he would use Xehanort's (i.e., the MoM's) with no explanation.

I don't think the MoM will literally whip off his hood to reveal Nomura's face, but the connection is undeniable. The MoM represents Nomura, even if they're not literally the same person.

As for the theory of Sora being the MoM, I see how it's plausible but it's also a terrible, cliche idea. I can't decide if it's better or worse than the alternative, also plausible theory that Xehanort is the MoM. To be completely honest, I dislike most popular theories about the MoM and I think it would be best if he isn't the same person as any other already-established character.
 
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I would love it to be Sora but only in very specific plot circumstances I have cooked up in my brain's fully-fleshed out script for the final KH game.

I want it to be Sora, but inconsequentially so. Not a big reveal but a moment of melancholic closure for one of our characters..

Knowing Nomura, it will by kitschy, corny, and convoluted as hell.
 

Ballad of Caius

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I was on the boat that thought that the MoM was a Sora from a distant future that returned to the past to build a future where there isn't ruin/Light didn't expire. Hell, when they revealed the concept of Worldlines, I thought the MoM was a Sora from another Worldline.

But after more story revelations, I think he's either the opposite of Darkness: Light; Demyx or an original character. Which leads me to believe that, perhaps, Demyx isn't from the world of Quadratum, seeing as how Luxord should have recognized (or they don't know each other).
 

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There’s a user on KH13 who is basically an authority on FF Type-0/Agito (they dug-up/translated the entire available script for the cancelled game) who makes a very compelling argument that KH Ux and moreover much of the direction the franchise is currently taking is very clearly directly inspired by the Type-0/Agito mythos - even possibly quite literally within the same multiverse. I’m not too familiar with that series myself but the gist is that there’s a neverending cycle of war in which the world ends and re-starts, awaiting the chosen “Agito” who will change destiny and finally end the cycle. Granted, this theorist is also a proponent of MoM = Demyx, which I’m not sure I buy into, but to their credit, it’s by far the most convincing/comprehensive MoM = Demyx argument I’ve ever come across. Worth checking out.

Never seen their posts I would be interested to read it. Type-0, which I did play, is EXACTLY what I was thinking about when I typed that. You can draw a lot of parallels there especially in raising a group of students who bring the end of the world. But you know what gets me of that extended mythos is how Bhunivelze's japanese and english interpretations seem to scary similar to our KH villains.

In the Japanese release, Bhunivelze still sees their Chaos—their hearts—as unclean, and seeks to "cleanse" them by destroying the souls of the dead so the living would not remember them and live in his new world free of pain or sadness. In the English release, he instead wants to remold humanity into soulless puppets that he would rule over.

The latter sounds a lot like Xehanort while the former reminds me suspiciously of the MoM. The MoM as far as we know basically plotted the destruction of everything because of a long term plan to defeat Darkness. But what stands out to me is the bit about erasing things so the living can't remember them and people live free of pain and sadness. That's quite literally what the MoM did, he suppressed the memories of the keyblade war and claimed the exact word for word reasoning of doing it to prevent sadness.

Also of note Bhunivelze cannot see the hearts of people which matches Xehanort well, it's unknown how the MoM has any differences on the views of hearts from Xehanort or if he also looks at them with a robotic nature that misses the point. This is the descriptor of the heart in that mythos.

People's hearts are pure chaos. Formless and ever-changing—a mystery no one can solve. That is why humans are such contradictions. One moment they're at each other's throats, the next they're forming shaky alliances. Soul is the "essence of humanity", heart is the "essence of a person", giving a person their individuality.

That sounds a LOT like the hearts in Kingdom Hearts but what does it say about chaos, this strange dark looking energy.

The chaos of the unseen realm is a malevolent energy that seeps through into the world of mortals. The existence-defying darkness witnessed by Lightning is an immense and inexorable force, a creeping doom that she is not even certain acts with a unified purpose or will. Where the chaos of Valhalla leaks into the mortal realm, the laws of the physical world are undone. This paradoxical energy seeks to return all existence to the unseen realm, but at times it seems to show an almost affection for those who share an affinity with chaos.

I can't be the only one who thinks that sounds like the force we call darkness in KH right? Mallovent energy, seeks to consume all, show affection to those that line with it, seemingly no unified purpose or will, exists in the hearts of everyone, darkness seems to literally defy the laws we know granting the power to traverse space and seemingly to stop or drastically slow down time itself?

Furthermore where did Kingdom Hearts originally reside before it was called here? Well according to MoM Kingdom Hearts resided in an unseen realm. Darkness seemingly only appeared in the world we play in when people sought contact with this realm, desiring Kingdom Hearts. I will propose this idea, the unseen realm that kingdom hearts resided in was the original form of the place that would later be called the realm of darkness. Shadows are the absence of light, in an unseen realm where the only thing was Kingdom Hearts it was fine. But when this pulsing living light was called forth to this world it shone on the people directly, it cast their shadows and brought to life the natural chaos in their heart giving it form as the beings called Darkness. Formless shadows able to feel the negativity in the heart of people, feeding and growing from it, and unable to understand the heart and its light as they are only an empty silhouette.

Eventually this would reach its peak in the keyblade war and ultimately Kingdom Hearts was banished back to it's unseen realm, and it took with it that which had been swallowed by the shadows it had cast. The majority of the world, the endless darkness, and the living shadows all returned turning the unseen realm into the realm of darkness. Without people's hearts to define them and no real desires of their own the living shadows devolved into pale imitations of what they once were, creating the pureblood heartless. However just as some fragments of lights, the Dandelions, avoided being swallowed at the end of the war so to did some of the living shadows, both Darkness and Dandelion have taken refuge in the new world the war that never happened. Eventually both returned to original world rebuilt and a world of light and darkness in constantly conflict. Which is kind of funny because if I'm right darkness is literally just a reflection of what's already in those bright little hearts, people are fighting themselves, and destroying the manifestations of these traits doesn't actually get rid of them in their heart. Aqua can destroy her phantoms all she wants but the pain and trauma remains.

Which ties I believe to the MoM and Xehanort because if I'm on the right track then Darkness isn't really the issue, people are. You can have a heart as bright and pure as possible but it will still act chaotically, be capable of sadness and anger, capable of harming others hell look at Kairi and the inner demon she created in MoM. Darkness is just a reflection of the truth that is already there, the monstrous heartless and murderous phantoms spouting your worst fears are just the dark parts of your heart made manifest. You can never truly defeat darkness if you don't address that, you have to do something about the people.

Xehanort tried to make a blank world, the new people would have hearts but they be puppets he would lead so that they are never again unbalanced, creating a world where instead of constantly at war light and dark would be in balance. MoM I surmise wants something much worse. He is shown to be fairly disillusioned with the world like Xehanort and thus like him wasn't above plotting its destruction but there is key critical difference in all this. Xehanort never said you should forget painful stuff, he believed in accepting those painful memories and the dark urges they bring, to harness them for power, that they are a necessary part. The MoM erased the painful memories, he believed that life be better off never knowing or living with such sorrows. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if the MoM's ultimate desire is some awful cosmic cleansing of the heart maybe as going as far as to eradicate all hearts forever, remove all negative memory and the ability to feel negative stuff and darkness will cease to be, but I digress as this is just a theory.

Regardless it's the MoM saying that people are better off just losing their bad memories of their pain. That the sorrows the hurt should just be thrown away and aren't needed in a new world. These are as anti-Sora as one can possible get and no amount of potential cycles or spirals or whatever could ever have me believe Sora could grow up into someone who would advocate tossing away the pain. Two completely separate Soras came to the same conclusion that the painful memories are what tie us to things we lost, that they drive us to work towards a betterment, and that pain can help us empathize and connect with one another. Sora knows sometimes people give into the pain and some are even consumed by it becoming truly vile, but he has never let that cause him to lose faith in the nature of people or this world.

That's why Sora can't be the MoM as they may be similar as people in some ways just as Xehanort and Riku were. But at the end of the day Riku never went as far as Xehanort and in a lot of ways is just a better version of the type of person Xehanort is. I think that's the same for the MoM and Sora with Sora ultimately being a better version of the type of person MoM is.
 

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What happens in Agito reminds me a bit of Attack on Titans. Without spoiling much, since this is a pretty popular media right now, it wouldn't surprise me that the series, or Phase 2, end something like how AoT could end.
 

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Slightly related but didn’t Daybreak Town’s clocktower get its design from Khalia’s clock in his room? Or was it the other way around? And wasn’t there a rumor going around that when Agito was written, Tabata forgot to put anything FNC in it which had a lot of the other devs having to rewrite it?

I have a feeling the above might lead to another versus rabbit hole, so let’s ignore that for now.

I really don’t like the idea of Sora turning into a psychopath who sacrificed the lives of child soldiers just to get rid of darkness. It doesn’t sound like his milieu.
 

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Slightly related but didn’t Daybreak Town’s clocktower get its design from Khalia’s clock in his room? Or was it the other way around? And wasn’t there a rumor going around that when Agito was written, Tabata forgot to put anything FNC in it which had a lot of the other devs having to rewrite it?

I have a feeling the above might lead to another versus rabbit hole, so let’s ignore that for now.

I really don’t like the idea of Sora turning into a psychopath who sacrificed the lives of child soldiers just to get rid of darkness. It doesn’t sound like his milieu.
No official comments have ever been made about Daybreak Town's design so it's all speculation.
 
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I honestly do not like this theory and do not want it to be true.

The Master Of Masters is one of the most interesting characters that Nomura has concocted for the series, and I really want him to be someone we've never seen before. Having him be someone that's already been around would be kind of a letdown. Though, if it's handled the way Xigbar's reveal of being Luxu was done, I could accept the MoM being a character we're already acquainted with, just as long as it isn't Sora.
 
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