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What are the reasons people say Kingdom Hearts is cringe?



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but how do you explore someone having their memories altered? Plus a lot of Sci fi writers have a hard time writing emotionless characters outside of robots. So writing the nobodies were always gonna be a struggle.
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Memories: Actually have the character physically explore his own memories as an outside observer. Like analyzing a dream after realizing and knowing it was a dream.
Emotionless: Emotionless =/= does not emote. It's much more accurate to say emotionless = doesn't understand emotions. Thus, rather than just boring and robotic, you make their personalities and reactions come off as wrong. Just looking at them, something seems super off about them. Disquieting.
 

Zackarix

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Part of the problem is KH chooses topics that are hard to explore visually. Gameplay is a visual medium but how do you explore someone having their memories altered? Plus a lot of Sci fi writers have a hard time writing emotionless characters outside of robots. So writing the nobodies were always gonna be a struggle.
Chain of Memories handles it pretty well I think.

But I think you're on to something. Kingdom Hearts has dealt with a lot topics that don't fit comfortably into the formula of "journey through Disney worlds." Which is why they have a reputation for being filler, regardless of if they actually are.
 

AegisXIII

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Chain of Memories handles it pretty well I think.

But I think you're on to something. Kingdom Hearts has dealt with a lot topics that don't fit comfortably into the formula of "journey through Disney worlds." Which is why they have a reputation for being filler, regardless of if they actually are.
But that's also why people are still around twenty years later.
 

Zackarix

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But that's also why people are still around twenty years later.
People play Kingdom Hearts for different reasons. Some for the gameplay, some for the Disney movies, and some because they're invested in the plot and characters.

But the Disney worlds are probably the biggest point from an advertising perspective, so I don't think they're going away ever.
 
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Cringe is also how you feel about the characters. Kingdom Hearts became harder to put up with because of Sora and Xehanort. Xehanort is a mystery with a poor answer but Sora is an annoying kid. He became more harder to deal with over the years. Kh1 came out when I was 10 so it's similar to why I can't deal with Ash from Pokémon, Naruto and Goku. The archetype they share just worked better when I was a kid. I preffered the Xehanort saga in BBS so Sora was the wrong fit for me.

Final Fantasy games are equally confusing but it's characters are more likable and interesting. Same with Persona so it comes down to preference.

The Disney worlds would just work better with new plots. For example, having the Organization trying to recruit a newly born nobody version of Alladin. But that's more of a corporate issue than something I could hold Nomura accountable for.
 
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The current world operates on ironic, detached repetition of memes as "facts", which take prescedence over the "truth". You may repeat those "facts" as much as you want without caring, while those who defend the "truth" are revealing their legitimate engagement and are thus vulnerable to ridicule in comparison.

So, Kingdom Hearts.

Truth: KH's story is told through a linearly released series of games
Memetic "fact": Nomura puts lore on literally anything such as cereal boxes and you have to read all of it!
(Note: This is largely spawned solely by the short audio scene from the concert. However, nearly every single Japanese franchise ever has included drama CDs where characters have conversations about as unimportant as that audio scene, just filling in a convo we know happened from context clues as a treat for the fans. This is not unique to Kingdom Hearts or notable.)
(Note 2: If the mobile games do not get turned into console games like coded did, this makes the first claim untrue; however, people practically fall over themselves defending gacha games and MMOs in other series, so I don't think people actually care about this.)

Truth: Sephiroth appears as a bonus boss in KH1 and 2, mostly separate from the main story
Memetic "fact": This is a game series where Mickey Mouse fights Sephiroth, that's so ridiculous!

Truth: KH is a series of action-RPGs with different titles fitting to their contents, telling a story that meanders through different points in time
Memetic "fact": KH expects you to play all these spin-off side games with completely different gameplay and nonsense titles to understand the REAL games

Truth: Kingdom Hearts was the only series Nomura was allowed to direct until FF7 Remake, so he includes his personal expression in it
Memetic "fact": Nomura largely made all the FFs he did character design for, yet insists on forcing his personal expression and OCs into Kingdom Hearts

And of course there are many other ways to show your detachment from KH without directly stating a falsehood. For example, KH's choice of worlds, although limited by what's owned by Disney, emphasizes worlds based on fairytales or children's literature to drive certain themes, but people who would never engage with this in their lives will joke about all the wildly unfitting things they think should be in KH next, because it's all a big joke to them.

Also, Kingdom Hearts makes an especially good target for this due to its perceived popularity and seeming naivete (which isn't exactly accurate), but a lot of these attitudes apply to other story-based Japanese game series too - a general hostility against a director perceived as full of himself for arbitrary reasons, a sense of indignation at the idea of following a story instead of just skipping to the newest entry. In the 00s (when KH began and was at its height of popularity), it was considered natural to talk about how Japanese games made no sense and all their writers were on drugs for expecting you to care about the story of a video game at all. Though even people who will gladly surround themselves with JRPGs often look down on KH.

EXTRA BONUS ADDENDUM: Although the Kingdom Hearts story truly does become in need of rigorous scrutiny to interpret in works such as UX, this is definitely not what people who joke about the series being impossible to follow are talking about, because nobody has read UX except for like, half the people in KH-specific communities (much of its implications have barely taken). The jokes about it being impossible to follow are 100% still hung up on "TWO ANSEMS?????", and will never progress beyond that point.
Friggin' Nier has canon drama CDs and Automata has a canon stage play it was born from and no one gives a fuck cuz haha that dang yoko taro

Meanwhile KH has one measly short audio scene and suddenly it's blown outta proportion cuz of OMG NOMURAAAA CANON STOPWATCH
 

the red monster

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Most of the people like to shit on KH because it makes them "cool" or whatever. they view it as childish games with edgy nonsense and also hating nomura became a trend.
i just stopped paying attention.
 

HakaishinChampa

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The fanbase in the late 2000s, most outsiders assumed fans of the series were kids and goth/emo people.

Here's this masterpiece:

 

Guernsey

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I think you can put in that pile as it wasn't until a few years ago that I started to appreciate the "cringe". To be honest, it wasn't until I became a teenager that I started to notice how the series was getting "bloated" and "convoluted" the series has gotten. I had listened to some posters concerning the storytelling of games like Metal Gear, Final Fantasy and even Kingdom Hearts. Some of those posters had some fair criticisms that came from a place of experience. Some of those posters have developed a contempt for the games. Some of those posters genuinely love the games.

I will admit that I fell into the trap of ironic detachment. I even called the game's story confusing and convoluted. It was only a few years ago that I started to get out of that mentality. I still think the games could be better but I am also learning to take games on their own terms rather than call them "cringe". I am not perfect but I think I appreciate the games now than I did back then.
 

Seasaltrio

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Because people haven't played it😂.
As for the convoluted plot, I think most of the people who say that just read a bunch of wiki stuff and skipped to KH3, or assumed the "spin-offs" weren't canon, and jumped from 1 to 2, and 2-3.
 
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