Were the Final Fantasy characters ever needed in Vanilla KH3?

[KeyToDestiny]

They were one of the reasons why I picked up Kingdom Hearts to begin with besides the Disney content. Way back when it first came out. The thought of Mickey, Donald or Goofy teaming up with Cloud or Squall just seemed so absurd yet so charming. Obviously over the years, Kingdom Hearts grew into it's own identity over the years with it's own original characters, but I can't say I'm really fond of most of them and would have rather they not come back from their initial "demises" as it felt like the perfect way to end it there on a bittersweet note but alas. Anyways I digress. The Final Fantasy characters would have felt a bit out of place with all the current nonsense going on in KH3 but I think they still could have played more of a role with the Radiant Garden shenanigans. It would have felt really bizarre to have Ansem and his apprentices coming back and acting like they run the town again despite what they did in the past while Leon and co. just stood back and let it happen despite all the hard work they did to rebuild their world just for the ones who helped caused it grief to return and take charge again. It would have looked pretty bad in my eyes. I'm not saying that Leon and co. needed to be part of the 7 vs. 13 fight as cool as that would have been but I still think Nomura could have done something with them if he really tried.

It's nice that he's including them in the DLC along with Fairy Godmother but it just looks like he's basically just wanting to use the models the team already made of those guys to good use and because he understood how many fans and the team were upset with the Final Fantasy characters being excluded. Now whether they'll play a bigger role in this extended narrative is anyone's guess but I'm just happy that they're here for the final chapter in this story and it's to help find ways to bring back Sora since they're the ones who've known Sora the longest besides Riku, Kairi, Donald, Goofy and arguably Mickey and actually know Sora unlike most of the other guardians.

It's a nice way to close off this story for me since KH3 will be my final game. Though I do kinda hope they bring in Cloud, Sephiroth and Tifa. If not, there's always FF7R.

 

[AdrianXXII]

The reports say they did the experiments and then cast off their bodies (that scene in DDD even shows them doing it in the basement), but don't really say anything about the world. So I really do think it was solely Maleficent that did the world in.

It actually might not have been the first world either, since Leon says it happened 9 years before KH1, and BbS takes place 10 years before it. So there's a year of time unaccounted for.

But yeah, MX told her about it and basically got her going on that whole plan.

I do agree that Maleficent is the one that invaded the world and caused it to fall into ruin.

However she used the Heartless to do it, which weren't really in the Realm of Light, until Apprentice Xehanort created them. He also made artificial ones in mass, which strengthened Maleficent's armies for conquering worlds.

He also kidnapped citizens for experiments including Kairi. On top of that he opened the door leading to the barrier of the world breaking, which made maleficent's invasion easier.

So while he didn't directly invade the world he contributed a lot to it's downfall and a lot of his actions contributed to the decade of hardship they endured.
Therefore I'd say the FF character's would have a lot of beef with him.

 

[SweetYetSalty]

I do agree that Maleficent is the one that invaded the world and caused it to fall into ruin.

However she used the Heartless to do it, which weren't really in the Realm of Light, until Apprentice Xehanort created them. He also made artificial ones in mass, which strengthened Maleficent's armies for conquering worlds.

He also kidnapped citizens for experiments including Kairi. On top of that he opened the door leading to the barrier of the world breaking, which made maleficent's invasion easier.

So while he didn't directly invade the world he contributed a lot to it's downfall and a lot of his actions contributed to the decade of hardship they endured.
Therefore I'd say the FF character's would have a lot of beef with him.

Didn't they chuck Kairi into space to see what would happen? I really think we need a cutscene of that. Little Kairi just being thrown into the sky and disappearing into space. One sky, one destiny.

At the very least Leon's group should have a issue with Ansem the Wise, whether they think it was him or apprentice Xehanort. Ansem has so much baggage that not all of it can be addressed.

 

[GreyouTT]

Didn't they chuck Kairi into space to see what would happen? I really think we need a cutscene of that. Little Kairi just being thrown into the sky and disappearing into space. One sky, one destiny.

 

[redcrown]

The Apprentices showing with no opposition from the Restoration Committee (who, in part, had to clean up the mess brought about the group's experiments) was definitely odd to say the least.

Also more importantly, the Apprentices and their whole storyline was obscenely boring and unneeded. Did I want to see Ienzo exposition dump to Sora, who he has no history with, in 10 minute long cutscenes in the most monotone voice he could muster, all the while thinking how much these scenes might have been improved had the FF gang been involved since they would obviously want to help Sora in whatever way they could and have actual history with him? No I did not.

 

[TruestSyn]

The way I look at it is this:

Originally Kingdom Hearts always came across as this Disney meets Square Enix thing. Without the addition of Final Fantasy characters back then it would have just been Disney by Square Enix and I feel like people would have been less inclined to gravitate toward it. They established these characters as friends of Sora throughout his adventures so it is a little insulting to remove them entirely. However, I yearn for the day that Kingdom Hearts could stand on its own two feet without Disney or Square. We've gotten lots of original characters and to see that spread out further into an entire game of completely original content would be fantastic, think about a permanent party of Sora, Riku, and Kairi! Or being able to switch between characters and having each trio playable. Obviously the series would still be owned by Disney and Square and could do references, but they could do so much more if they weren't shackled to any one property. Shibuya could be its own thing without TWEWY involvement, Verum Rex and the characters from it could be new, all the Foretellers and the X era characters, Traverse Town could be expanded upon (minus the LatT fountain), Hallow Bastion/Radiant Garden could still be used if we accept that the FF characters either moved on somewhere or disappeared. Land of Departure, Daybreak Town, Scala ad Caelum, The World that Never Was, and Twilight Town could all be vast and it could still be a good game.

However, there has always been something magical about the marriage between these two properties that has given Kingdom Hearts a certain level of charm that KH3 missed at first. I remember people speculating and showing fake screenshots of Lightning and Noctis being in KH3 and the idea of different characters and what their roles would have been in future KH games.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Also more importantly, the Apprentices and their whole storyline was obscenely boring and unneeded. Did I want to see Ienzo exposition dump to Sora, who he has no history with, in 10 minute long cutscenes in the most monotone voice he could muster, all the while thinking how much these scenes might have been improved had the FF gang been involved since they would obviously want to help Sora in whatever way they could and have actual history with him? No I did not.

It's a little funny how Nomura didn't know what to do with Leon's crew but replacing them with the apprentices just shows who he really doesn't know what to do with.

 

[GreyouTT]

It's a little funny how Nomura didn't know what to do with Leon's crew but replacing them with the apprentices just shows who he really doesn't know what to do with.

🤨

I feel like having Ienzo and the apprentices working on the science stuff makes more sense than a mechanical engineer and three people who have no idea how any of that works.

 

[2 quid is good]

Nothing is "needed", the Disney is not "needed" because it does nothing to forward the main plot.

Does that mean it should not exist in the game? I think that would be a resounding no.

The question for anything should never ever be "are they necessary" but "what do they bring to the table"

 

[Enturax]

They were literally introduced to us before even the Disney characters were (on Destiny Islands). They were also the most into the Xehanort fiasco next to the KH characters themselves.
You'd have thought that someone who was a part of starting the trilogy, would also be a part of ending it...

That's enough of an argument to keep them in.

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

🤨

I feel like having Ienzo and the apprentices working on the science stuff makes more sense than a mechanical engineer and three people who have no idea how any of that works.

N-n-n-n-no, that's not what I was getting at. They make more sense to do the science stuff, yes, but what scenes they had (which was really all Ienzo, Dilan and Aeleus just vaguely existed) were nothing to write home about. Like redcrown was saying, Ienzo was mostly just giving an exposition dump, and the RG scenes would have been much improved and lively if Leon and friends were also around doing what they've always done for Sora.

By it just being Ienzo, it shows that Nomura only had him around because Roxas needs to be around. Heck, his first scene is about telling Sora something that should have already been told to him by Riku...

 

[AdrianXXII]

N-n-n-n-no, that's not what I was getting at. They make more sense to do the science stuff, yes, but what scenes they had (which was really all Ienzo, Dilan and Aeleus just vaguely existed) were nothing to write home about. Like redcrown was saying, Ienzo was mostly just giving an exposition dump, and the RG scenes would have been much improved and lively if Leon and friends were also around doing what they've always done for Sora.

By it just being Ienzo, it shows that Nomura only had him around because Roxas needs to be around. Heck, his first scene is about telling Sora something that should have already been told to him by Riku...

Yeah, part of the info he passes was stuff other cast members already knew and should have told Sora.

Also it would have made more sense for Leon and Co. to be there to pass on the info to Sora while Ienzo and the others were working on it in the background, this would also serve as them vouching for the x-org members

 

[Ballad of Caius]

To be honest, I don't mind exposition dump, but as long as it makes sense and isn't long winded, like Ienzo was. If Nomura is ever gonna do that again, he should be more creative, because that was literally like all Ienzo did. Some original cutscenes felt lika drag because they lasted for a couple of minutes more than some other cutscenes.

 

[the red monster]

Not really.. i never cared about them as much as other people.
the main game needed less disney but more actual kingdom hearts (original characters, and main plot)

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

To be honest, I don't mind exposition dump, but as long as it makes sense and isn't long winded, like Ienzo was. If Nomura is ever gonna do that again, he should be more creative, because that was literally like all Ienzo did. Some original cutscenes felt lika drag because they lasted for a couple of minutes more than some other cutscenes.

Right. Nothing wrong with having exposition dumps and sometimes they just need to happen, but keep it brief, have other things happening, see if it's even necessary, etc. Don't drag it out like you're filling a quota.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

Right. Nothing wrong with having exposition dumps and sometimes they just need to happen, but keep it brief, have other things happening, see if it's even necessary, etc. Don't drag it out like you're filling a quota.

Yeah. The Secret Reports were exposition dumps, but they were brief, unlike Ienzo. Something like the Secret Reports, but in cutscenes.

Though I imagine the main narrative suffered a lot in terms of structure because of the year lost in development.

 

[Perkilator]

Y’know, I just had a thought:

what if Leon and Yuffie accompanied the Guardians of Light in the vanilla game, and fought against Luxord, Marluxia and Larxene while King Mickey helped out Riku with Dark Riku and Xigbar?

 

[disney233]

Y’know, I just had a thought:

what if Leon and Yuffie accompanied the Guardians of Light in the vanilla game, and fought against Luxord, Marluxia and Larxene while King Mickey helped out Riku with Dark Riku and Xigbar?

Defeats the whole purpose of the 7 vs 13 battle even more than it already did.

 

[AdrianXXII]

yeah, that said it'd have been nice if they had been there to help Yen Sid, Donald and Goofy holding back the Heartless