Politics Welp, America’s screwed

[Sonofjafar]

I’ve seen the latest presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. As a democrat, I can say with 100% confidence that my country is totally fucked. Donald Trump has a chance of winning the election and getting away with both everything he has done til now and everything he intends to do. This infuriated me to no end and I just thought I’d vent my frustrations here. First off, what the hell was going on with Biden out there. This was his chance to prove he is still capable of doing the duties of a president despite his age and that is how he presents himself. I just can’t deal with this. If Donald Trump doesn’t die or my party doesn’t get a new candidate before the election, we’ll have to rely on the UK or France to keep democracy alive.

 

[Phoenix]

For what it's worth, Biden was likely to lose anyway before this. He's behind in almost every swing state, and has been for a while.

The silver lining is that Biden did so bad that MAYBE enough Dems realise that they have to do something else, and are able to convince Biden to stand aside for the good of the country and their party.

 

[2 quid is good]

we’ll have to rely on the UK or France to keep democracy alive

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJAJA

 

[Phoenix]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJAJA

Yeah, the far right's about to win in France in a bit.

 

[Launchpad]

if it took a lousy debate for you to realize that the country is boned idk what to tell ya bud.

 

[Squood!]

Well, thanks for making me remember that the orange bastard's sentencing is ultimately pointless.

 

[Sonofjafar]

if it took a lousy debate for you to realize that the country is boned idk what to tell ya bud.

So I had hope that things would get better. So sue me

 

[Chie]

I know this is incredibly bad forum ettiquete and also just rude in general but it's so hard to read you make any post like this and not point out that you're the guy who said "It’s always white people have it coming, everyone else doesn’t." Like you should be all for this Trump fellow

 

[Sonofjafar]

I know this is incredibly bad forum ettiquete and also just rude in general but it's so hard to read you make any post like this and not point out that you're the guy who said "It’s always white people have it coming, everyone else doesn’t." Like you should be all for this Trump fellow

I’m glad to see you acknowledge how rude that is. Never the less, I must say that what I meant by that was that white people are always the enemy of equality rather than actually part of the equation themselves. Is not having any race be the bad guy too much to ask?

 

[bambii (aka foreteller)]

Fascism is on the rise everywhere, not just the U.S. Both parties actively support genocide. Dems even at the state and local levels have been implementing increasingly right-wing policy across the country. The system is cooked; focus on building your communities, nourishing your networks, and following the lead of principled/progressive local mobilizers, imo

 

[bambii (aka foreteller)]

Also, I will add that Jill Stein is an honest, righteous candidate who truly fights for the interests of the 99% and is on the ballot in enough states to theoretically be able to win the election. There’s no reason she shouldn’t be on that debate stage, other than corporate interests trying to maintain the status quo via illusion of choice. But y’all aren’t ready for that conversation…

 

[Sonofjafar]

Also, I will add that Jill Stein is an honest, righteous candidate who truly fights for the interests of the 99% and is on the ballot in enough states to theoretically be able to win the election. There’s no reason she shouldn’t be on that debate stage, other than corporate interests trying to maintain the status quo via illusion of choice. But y’all aren’t ready for that conversation…

A third option is not a bad idea. The problem is that congress is made up of Democrats and Republicans so a third party president would never be allowed to get anything done. The real problem is that the government is flip flopping between conservative and liberal policies too often.

 

[Phoenix]

Also, I will add that Jill Stein is an honest, righteous candidate who truly fights for the interests of the 99% and is on the ballot in enough states to theoretically be able to win the election. There’s no reason she shouldn’t be on that debate stage, other than corporate interests trying to maintain the status quo via illusion of choice. But y’all aren’t ready for that conversation…

As long as the US has a FPTP system, third parties on the national level cannot win. The system is designed to shut third parties out. You need to change away from FPTP before anyone's ready for that conversation.

The last time a third candidate made any headway, Gore lost and Bush won. That wasn't a hypothetical problem, it directly led to the Bush administration, and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Hundreds of thousands of civilians died. A presidential election has real consequences.

 

[bambii (aka foreteller)]

As long as the US has a FPTP system, third parties on the national level cannot win. The system is designed to shut third parties out. You need to change away from FPTP before anyone's ready for that conversation.

The last time a third candidate made any headway, Gore lost and Bush won. That wasn't a hypothetical problem, it directly led to the Bush administration, and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Hundreds of thousands of civilians died. A presidential election has real consequences.

For sure, I understand the problem. Most of my adult life I’ve been a “lesser of two evils” voter, but I’ve reached a point where I can no longer in good conscience bring myself to vote for a war criminal, irrespective of the fact that the alternative is even worse. It’s just too foul of a proposition. And what is democracy meant to be if not the freedom to vote based on your principles? The institutions in place have stacked the power of money and murderous interests against us, but it’s also our continuous collective complicity in accepting this status quo that perpetuates the issue. If every voter who thinks “I’ll just plug my nose, close my eyes and vote for Biden” voted for someone like Jill Stein instead, it could stoke the winds of change, and a different future could be possible. It’s an intractable problem but a long-term solution can never emerge so long as each individual, like you and me, shrugs and says “I guess this is our fate.” I’m done fighting for change from within the two-party system, it’s an evil mess. There are other, more productive avenues for political action and engagement. At least, that’s the perspective I’ve come around to.

 

[Sonofjafar]

For sure, I understand the problem. Most of my adult life I’ve been a “lesser of two evils” voter, but I’ve reached a point where I can no longer in good conscience bring myself to vote for a war criminal, irrespective of the fact that the alternative is even worse. It’s just too foul of a proposition. And what is democracy meant to be if not the freedom to vote based on your principles? The institutions in place have stacked the power of money and murderous interests against us, but it’s also our continuous collective complicity in accepting this status quo that perpetuates the issue. If every voter who thinks “I’ll just plug my nose, close my eyes and vote for Biden” voted for someone like Jill Stein instead, it could stoke the winds of change, and a different future could be possible. It’s an intractable problem but a long-term solution can never emerge so long as each individual, like you and me, shrugs and says “I guess this is our fate.” I’m done fighting for change from within the two-party system, it’s an evil mess. There are other, more productive avenues for political action and engagement. At least, that’s the perspective I’ve come around to.

Yeah but then your vote won’t matter because the person you voted for will lose and you’re stuck with whoever wins. Also, if Biden is a war criminal for trying not to trigger Israel into a full out war then why not give the same title to every president since the country’s founding

 

[bambii (aka foreteller)]

Yeah but then your vote won’t matter because the person you voted for will lose and you’re stuck with whoever wins. Also, if Biden is a war criminal for trying not to trigger Israel into a full out war then why not give the same title to every president since the country’s founding

They’re all war criminals

 

[2 quid is good]

Yeah but then your vote won’t matter because the person you voted for will lose and you’re stuck with whoever wins. Also, if Biden is a war criminal for trying not to trigger Israel into a full out war then why not give the same title to every president since the country’s founding

Curious to know what else Israel needs to be doing for their current efforts to not be a full out "war" (read: genocide). And yes, actually, almost all US presidents are war criminals, hope that helps.

and here above, we have the picture of the charmless liberal.

Society must pay lip service to progressiveness but mustn't be too progressive as that creates discomfort.

The rabble of the working class must never have their voices heard, let alone validated. It's simply too uncomfortable!

For the purposes of a comfortable existence, the only questions allowed to be asked of a Head of State regard that of minor domestic issues. You wouldn't want to rock the boat otherwise now.


I despise people of this ilk. Oh ye of no courage, little faith, and not a smidgen of imagination.

It's always on the onus of the Left to be "pragmatic" and "get behind the lesser of two evils". But when the Left puts out a popular candidate who stands a legitimate chance of winning and enacting change, liberals throw their toys out the pram and throw hissy fits and refuse to vote for them, and expect to be applauded for doing so.

I will no longer be browbeaten by FPTP-pilled individuals on how to vote, and on the meaning of my vote. I'll vote for whoever I want and however I want, even if it's to scribble "a pox on all your households" over the ballot paper.

EDIT: so I guess I should make it obvious and say no way am I voting for Labour under Kier Starmer. I probably might never vote Labour again. Right now my plan is to go in the booth and spoil my vote but I might vote 3rd party if the inclination hits me.

But yeah. Sorry, I really don't give a damn how scared you are of a Trump victory. Don't give your vote to any of these criminals. They're YOUR servants.

 

[Phoenix]

I want to emphasise that this isn't an abstract problem. Vote for your principles all you like, but you're not the ones that paid the price for the invasions of the Middle East. It's the Iraqi and Afghan civilians that had to deal with the leveling of their countries, and Iraq in particular that had to deal with ISiS going in a murder and torture spree. It's people like the Yazidis that were mass raped and massacred, the Assyrisn Christians, Shias running for their lives. All because Bush, not Gore, was in power. Partly, because leftists protest voted against Gore.

Presidential elections aren't a game, or a place to air grievances. They have real consequences for billions of humans.


EDIT: look, I don't want to make anyone feel bad or defensive about their voting habits. But I want to make clear that when we're taking about the lesser of two evils, this isn't a hypothetical defender, or something like a Big Mac costing 1 more dollar. 50k people dying and 500k people dying makes a big fucking difference to 450k real people.

 

[2 quid is good]

I'm Literally Pakistani and spent part of every year of my childhood in Pakistan during the War on Terror years when the situation was so bad that every single city and town in the country was subjected to random Taliban bomb blasts.

My uncle walked out of a bazaar and seconds later a bomb exploded. I wasn't allowed to play outside or even GO outside when I got to be around 13/14 because of the insane numbers of kidnapping and trafficking happening.

A distant cousin of mine almost got snatched as he was walking out of school and into an open car door, and he would have been snatched if his dad didn't grab him quick. I know quite clearly the knock on effect of these "abstract problems".

None of this holds a candle to what Iraqis, Afghans, Palestinians, Syrians and many others have had to deal with, but all of these experiences came during Obama's administration. So yeah, I really don't think you can blame the Leftists for Iraq. I think you're keeping blinders on if you think it wouldn't have happened in some sort of capacity anyway. Same with Afghanistan. And evidently, same with Palestine.

There are no heroes in American mainstream politics.

 

[bambii (aka foreteller)]

I want to emphasise that this isn't an abstract problem. Vote for your principles all you like, but you're not the ones that paid the price for the invasions of the Middle East. It's the Iraqi and Afghan civilians that had to deal with the leveling of their countries, and Iraq in particular that had to deal with ISiS going in a murder and torture spree. It's people like the Yazidis that were mass raped and massacred, the Assyrisn Christians, Shias running for their lives. All because Bush, not Gore, was in power. Partly, because leftists protest voted against Gore.

Presidential elections aren't a game, or a place to air grievances. They have real consequences for billions of humans.

2 quid addressed this more eloquently than I probably can, but to be clear, I am also acutely aware of how bad the “War on Terror” was (I’m Iranian, fyi). And to be perfectly honest with you, I am not confident the same disaster would not have happened had Gore been in power. Maybe things on the domestic stage would have been marginally better; maybe we’d be on one of the slightly less “we’re fucked” paths of greenhouse gas emissions. But repeatedly, time and again, the U.S. government—Democrat or Republican, it truly has made very little difference—has proudly shown the world how much it despises brown and black people, how little it cares for foreign lives (not to mention the lives of the American working class—but that’s a different conversation).

The UN estimated over 377,000 (!!) people have died due to both direct and indirect causes as a result of the Yemen war. Which president presided over that catastrophe, drone striking the place to hell and back, unconditionally supplying Saudi with arms, intelligence, etc? I’ll let you guess that one. Not to mention his horrific drone program in Libya, Pakistan, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan. Trump merely expanded on this existing framework of mass death and destruction.

The Afghanistan and Iraq wars were overwhelmingly popular when they started. The entire House of Representatives except for ONE individual voted to invade Afghanistan. The majority of Democratic senators voted to authorize the Iraq invasion (including our very own Mr. Biden!)

As we speak, Joe Biden is party to and complicit in one of, if not the most, gruesome crimes against humanity of our generation.

Blue or red has never really mattered, especially when it comes to war and foreign policy. It’s the same hawks, the same neoconservatives, the same oil and gas mongers, the same arms manufacturers every. single. time. They’re running the show.