Was Eraqus a complete shmuck?



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blksabbath74

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Signs point to yes...

Seriously, some unknown force (Xehanort) introduces darkness during Aqua and Terra's Mastery test, and he just 'allows it to play out' as a good test, and never further investigates.

He is so out of touch with Terra that he doesn't question how he summoned darkness, or ever council him further on it, leaving Terra completely vulnerable to Xehanort.

He is basically willing to execute one of his own students, who is essentially innocent, just to keep him from potentially being used as a pawn.

Across the board, Xehanort played him like a fiddle and not only did he get beaten, but he never really even questioned or investigated a ton of very suspicious things.

In the end, he is dead, and all three of his students have fallen as well.

In retro, I'm not that impressed with him.
 

Ruran

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My more cynical side says that he was near completely incompetent because of plot convenience (BbS was chalk full of them) though my more analytical side says that the story was trying to continue its underlying theme of the dangers of obsession and that being a "kind father" isn't equivalent to being a "good father".

Though it was probably both.

For better or for worse, Eraqus failed as both a father figure and a mentor, having neither the empathy nor the wisdom that he thought he had. I don't dislike the idea they were going with, with him though. He's the foil to Xehanort: a home-body who gladly settled down, fears the darkness, and is comfortable with the known. His short comings hindered more than helped his students in the long run and it was far too late before he saw that.

Like everyone else, he's a tragic character that failed partially due to his own flaws (and for better or for worse, he's also what led TAV to fall as badly as they did) so his short comings in themselves aren't bad imo. It's more BbS's tendency to beat everyone over the head with the stupid stick for plot convenience that bothers me. Nearly every characters suffers from this to some extent.
 

blksabbath74

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My more cynical side says that he was near completely incompetent because of plot convenience (BbS was chalk full of them) though my more analytical side says that the story was trying to continue its underlying theme of the dangers of obsession and that being a "kind father" isn't equivalent to being a "good father".

Though it was probably both.

For better or for worse, Eraqus failed as both a father figure and a mentor, having neither the empathy nor the wisdom that he thought he had. I don't dislike the idea they were going with, with him though. He's the foil to Xehanort: a home-body who gladly settled down, fears the darkness, and is comfortable with the known. His short comings hindered more than helped his students in the long run and it was far too late before he saw that.

Like everyone else, he's a tragic character that failed partially due to his own flaws (and for better or for worse, he's also what led TAV to fall as badly as they did) so his short comings in themselves aren't bad imo. It's more BbS's tendency to beat everyone over the head with the stupid stick for plot convenience that bothers me. Nearly every characters suffers from this to some extent.


Yes, I agree that it was all for plot convenience.

Having said that, Eraqus' actions almost seem to point to a need to sabatoge Terra and favor Aqua. Maybe, on a subconcious level, Eraqus wanted Terra (and to a lesser extent Ventus) out of the way so that he could have Aqua to himself, even if only in a chaste master/pupil relationship.

It starts with him neglecting to really investigate the darkness that intruded upon the Mastery test, but seemed to build throughout the story, fulminating to the point where he was literally trying to kill off both Terra and Ventus.

There are definately some elements of Claude Frollo in Eraqus, upon a deeper look.
 

Zettaflare

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Yes, I agree that it was all for plot convenience.

Having said that, Eraqus' actions almost seem to point to a need to sabatoge Terra and favor Aqua. Maybe, on a subconcious level, Eraqus wanted Terra (and to a lesser extent Ventus) out of the way so that he could have Aqua to himself, even if only in a chaste master/pupil relationship.

It starts with him neglecting to really investigate the darkness that intruded upon the Mastery test, but seemed to build throughout the story, fulminating to the point where he was literally trying to kill off both Terra and Ventus.

There are definately some elements of Claude Frollo in Eraqus, upon a deeper look.
I think that's a bit of a stretch. Eraqus clearly cared about both Terra and Ven. He even showed remorse for turning his keyblade against the two of them. Not to mention shedding tears when he had to fight terra. I imagine if he didn't truly care about them and wanted them dead, he wouldn't have any regret about having to kill them
 

Draxem

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For better or for worse, Eraqus failed as both a father figure and a mentor, having neither the empathy nor the wisdom that he thought he had. I don't dislike the idea they were going with, with him though. He's the foil to Xehanort: a home-body who gladly settled down, fears the darkness, and is comfortable with the known. His short comings hindered more than helped his students in the long run and it was far too late before he saw that.
This, this is why I appreciate Eraqus but believe he is the character that needs to stay dead.

Eraqus's failure equally served as foreshadowing of the fates of his three pupils, and as stupid as his character was made out to be, I wouldn't change him one bit.
 

Xehanort-X-blade

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This, this is why I appreciate Eraqus but believe he is the character that needs to stay dead.

Eraqus's failure equally served as foreshadowing of the fates of his three pupils, and as stupid as his character was made out to be, I wouldn't change him one bit.
i like if they make eraqus stays dead but since his heart survived means there's chance he well come back
 
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Gram

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What's even more damaging about Eraqus is that despite the things already listed he still trusted Xehanort after he scarred him over what was essentially talk of myths and theories.

Terra may have been the most gullible one displayed but Eraqus just takes that much further to outright denial.
 

blksabbath74

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I think that's a bit of a stretch. Eraqus clearly cared about both Terra and Ven. He even showed remorse for turning his keyblade against the two of them. Not to mention shedding tears when he had to fight terra. I imagine if he didn't truly care about them and wanted them dead, he wouldn't have any regret about having to kill them
It's TOTALLY a stretch, and I'm certainly not calling Eraqus a villain by any means.

However, Claude Frollo clearly cared for Esmerelda, yet that very thing is what led him to the crisis of faith that tore him apart and damned him. As bad of a villain as he was, he wasn't all bad. There was some good in him.

Obviously Eraqus was MUCH more in control of his darkness, but to the point of fanaticism which caused him to loathe and fear the darkness beyond reason. Because of that, he made some very poor decisions that led to his own demise and that of his pupils.

Eraqus is an heroic, if misguided, figure, while Claude Frollo is a complete villain, though not without virtue, but they were both, to some extent, fanatics, and that drove them subconciously.

Also, people can be conflicted. Frollo was conflicted about Esmerelda, who he loved but wanted killed. Eraqus was conflicted about Ventus and Terra, who he loved but felt he had to kill. They were both motivated by a what they felt was a higher calling.

There are all kinds of parallels here.
 

blksabbath74

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This, this is why I appreciate Eraqus but believe he is the character that needs to stay dead.

Eraqus's failure equally served as foreshadowing of the fates of his three pupils, and as stupid as his character was made out to be, I wouldn't change him one bit.
If Mark Hammil wasn't involved with a new Disney/Star Wars set of projects, I might say 'throw him a bone,' but yeah, in general, let Eraqus stay dead.


Maybe if Eraqus killed Terra and Ventus things would be better.
Maybe if Xehanort reforges the X-Blade and pushes the reset button on the universe, things would be better...
 

Rau Le Creuset

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Well his plans to make the X-blade would be foiled, as would his plans to have Terra as a vessel. It doesn't seem so bad a course..
 

blksabbath74

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Well his plans to make the X-blade would be foiled, as would his plans to have Terra as a vessel. It doesn't seem so bad a course..
1) Xehanort clearly had an number of back-up plans to gain access to Kingdom Hearts.

2) If, instead of trying to kill Ventus and Terra, Eraqus and his pupils, along with Mickey and Yen Sid, had presented a unified front against Xehanort, it would have been possible to defeat him early on, before he gained so much more powerful, and had so much more time to plan.

3) Xehanort was obviously waiting in the wings, and had set up the whole situation to turn Terra to Darkness. If it had seemed that Eraqus was going to win and kill Ventus and Terra, he undoubtedly would have appeared and 'saved' them. That actually would have gone further to making his plan successful. Imagine if Xehanort had saved Ventus and Terra, and therebye gained their loyalty. Would Aqua have fought them, or just joined them?
 

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1) Isn't waging war with the X-blade the only true way to have the actual Kingdom hearts appear?

2) Ain't that the truth.. Yen Sid and master Eraqus always seem unconditionally lazy. For two enormous figures, these "masters" do nothing. They should be the rallying call for the good forces.

3) Yes, I guess Xehanort was waiting for it to play out. I still think it's possible that they could have died. Would aqua join Xehanort? I really need to play Birth by sleep again to make a proper decision. Obviously, I've got to re-analyze these characters.
 

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Eraqus was so sure that what he was doing was always right because it was for the sake of the Light. He was so certain, which is why he couldn't see how what he was doing (or didn't do) was so wrong.

Yes, there was favoritism for Aqua. That's pretty evident. But where does that spawn from, exactly? It might not really be important, but we don't even know how he happened across those two...
Ruran is right. Beat over the head with a friggin plot stick.
 

blksabbath74

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1) Isn't waging war with the X-blade the only true way to have the actual Kingdom hearts appear?

2) Ain't that the truth.. Yen Sid and master Eraqus always seem unconditionally lazy. For two enormous figures, these "masters" do nothing. They should be the rallying call for the good forces.

3) Yes, I guess Xehanort was waiting for it to play out. I still think it's possible that they could have died. Would aqua join Xehanort? I really need to play Birth by sleep again to make a proper decision. Obviously, I've got to re-analyze these characters.
I'm replaying it, and am seeing it in a very different light.

To be honest, I have a tendency to inject my own interpretations od added depth into a story I like to cover up weak storytelling, and I've had years to mull some of this over.

Having said that, these things are occuring to me spontaneusly as I play through.

Initially, I just too Eraqus for granted as a generic kung-fu mentor figure, but seriously...he allows the test to continue when darkness spontaneously appears. He explains this somewhat, in that he let it go, because it was a good test, but then offers no further investigation.

He tells Terra he failed because he couldn't contain his darkness, but makes no real roads towards finding out what happened with Terra or putting him back on the right track. He then sends him off on a mission, alone, during what one would think was a critical time in Terra's training.

I don't think Eraqus was sabatoging Terra consciously, but maybe sub-conciously he favored Aqua (if only platonically) to the point that he failed Terra as a mentor.
 

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Isn't Eraqus' real purpose in the game to show how "worshiping" the light could lead one to be blinded by it?

All these are just speculation, but:
- Even after everything Xehanort had done, he still chose to believe the light would one day shine on his "comrade".
- He let Terra go on a mission after witnessing his darkness first hand, refusing to acknowledge darkness could sway him away, given how absolute and unwavering light is in his eyes.
- Tried to kill his pupils, without giving them a chance to explain their situation, all in the name of "light"

His biggest mistake was refusing to acknowledge the darkness' very existence (in Xehanort and Terra) despite it being thrown at his face every second, but at least he realized he was wrong before his demise ...

And, as I see it, after retiring Yen Sid just doesn't want to get involved, leaving it to the younger generation. But now that the old Xehanort is back, he might take up arms.
 

blksabbath74

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Isn't Eraqus' real purpose in the game to show how "worshiping" the light could lead one to be blinded by it?

All these are just speculation, but:
- Even after everything Xehanort had done, he still chose to believe the light would one day shine on his "comrade".
- He let Terra go on a mission after witnessing his darkness first hand, refusing to acknowledge darkness could sway him away, given how absolute and unwavering light is in his eyes.
- Tried to kill his pupils, without giving them a chance to explain their situation, all in the name of "light"

His biggest mistake was refusing to acknowledge the darkness' very existence (in Xehanort and Terra) despite it being thrown at his face every second, but at least he realized he was wrong before his demise ...

And, as I see it, after retiring Yen Sid just doesn't want to get involved, leaving it to the younger generation. But now that the old Xehanort is back, he might take up arms.
I wouldn't say it was worshipping the light, so much as a fear of the dark.

Or better, the failure to aknowledge that light and darkness exist in everyone.

I think Yen Sid is probably more balanced in his views, although I'd be suprised if he takes up the keyblade again. That seems to be a young persons' game these days.
 

Gram

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Isn't Eraqus' real purpose in the game to show how "worshiping" the light could lead one to be blinded by it?

All these are just speculation, but:
- Even after everything Xehanort had done, he still chose to believe the light would one day shine on his "comrade".
- He let Terra go on a mission after witnessing his darkness first hand, refusing to acknowledge darkness could sway him away, given how absolute and unwavering light is in his eyes.
- Tried to kill his pupils, without giving them a chance to explain their situation, all in the name of "light"

His biggest mistake was refusing to acknowledge the darkness' very existence (in Xehanort and Terra) despite it being thrown at his face every second, but at least he realized he was wrong before his demise ...

And, as I see it, after retiring Yen Sid just doesn't want to get involved, leaving it to the younger generation. But now that the old Xehanort is back, he might take up arms.
It's more the underlined part and like blksabbath mentioned fear. Eraqus clings to the light so strongly because he fears and hates the darkness and thus he is blinded to the truth that both are in everyone.

It took Terra kicking his ass to make him see otherwise and of course by then it was to late cause Xehanort stabbed him in the back. (literally)
 

Alan Smithee

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It's more the underlined part and like blksabbath mentioned fear. Eraqus clings to the light so strongly because he fears and hates the darkness and thus he is blinded to the truth that both are in everyone.

It took Terra kicking his ass to make him see otherwise and of course by then it was to late cause Xehanort stabbed him in the back. (literally)
But then Eraqus arguably got the last laugh by "seeding" Terra's Heart before MX could (despite the Body being a different story).
 
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