Was Ansem (XH) set up to fail?

[flyingfishstick]

In DDD we learned that the presence of a Xehanort heart is represented through amber eyes and pointed ears. Xemnas had both of these traits; however, Ansem only had the eyes. Ansem’s lack of pointed ears might suggest that Master Xehanort’s consciousness existed on a much more subconscious level than his counterpart. The same goes for Apprentice Xehanort. Despite his intelligence, Ansem was his own person and a creature of darkness that was wildly unpredictable. After he had served his purpose, Xehanort used his vulnerabilities against him. Primarily, the light of Kingdom Hearts.

The Ansem reports in KH1 showed no signs that Apprentice Xehanort knew about his past as a Keyblade Master. It’s been stated that he faked his memory loss, but I think it’s more likely that he locked off parts of his mind in order to prevent his future heartless from knowing too much. The Xehanort heart within him guided his studies until he came across the Princesses of Heart and Kingdom Hearts itself. In a moment of clarity Xehanort took over and the opening scene of DDD occurred. He then gave up his body, but not without a surefire way of eventually getting it back. Master Xehanort had to know that Kingdom Hearts was light and he kept this knowledge from Ansem SOD so that after gathering the Princesses, he would seek it out and destroy himself.

Based on the Unknown fight in KHFM, it’s reasonable to assume that Xemnas was monitoring Ansem. He was watching his progress and waiting for the moment when the lights and darknesses could clash. Had Sora failed or not intervened at all, Ansem would have fallen anyway to the light of Kingdom Hearts and Xemnas would have willingly ended his existence to be reborn once again as Master Xehanort. Finally, the X-Blade would have been forged and Kingdom Hearts would have been his. Unfortunately for MX, Sora and Co. showed up and threw a wrench in his scheme. Having failed, he begins his final attempt which starts with DDD.

 

[Monkey D. Rocky]

He wasn't really set up to fail. Sure Xemnas was probably there to monitor him, but there was a chance that Sora wouldn't succeed in the final battle of KH. Also, Apprentice Xehanort truly had memory loss. Braig believes that he was lying, and in Blank Points Braig asks Apprentice Xehanort if he's faking his memory loss, and he just looks at Braig confusingly. On the whole lack of pointed ears debate...I truly don't know. Hopefully someone else on the forums knows the answer to that one.

 

[flyingfishstick]

At this point in the story it doesn't really matter if he was set up to fail or not, I just kind of thought it was an interesting idea. I'm just saying the light of Kingdom Hearts would have destroyed Ansem even if Sora hadn't shown up and maybe that was part of Xehanort's master plan all along.

 

[Ruran]

Spoiler Show

Ansem's pointed ears tend to fluctuate for some reason. I doubt it's anything significant, I chalk it up to artistic issues. I think there may be an Ansem model with pointed ears floating around somewhere but don't quote me on that though.

 

[flyingfishstick]

You might be right about it just being an insignificant artistic difference, but at the same time eyes and ears were made very important by recent developments. I would like to think that they would try to find ways to keep the old consistent with the new,nut we all know that doesn't always happen.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

While I don't believe that Ansem was "set up" since the plan carried out in DDD was also another backup-plan in case the stuff in KH 1 and 2 didn't work and the ears-difference may be really only an artistic difference, I will nonetheless proceed to shortly "overthink" it and say it may have a significance nonetheless.

With our current knowledge, it seems very much like that Xemnas is in fact not only more "evil" than Ansem SoD but also Master Xehanort's right hand man/second in command, just as Saix was for him in the original Organisation. Not only does Xemnas sit now on throne No. II in the the new Organisation, to the right of MX himself, he was also tasked to monitor and carry out MX's main plan to make Sora a vessel, working on this together with Young Xehanort and Xigbar.

On Ansem SoD however, while he's still of course far from "good" or any more sympathetic than Xemnas, in DDD there are some subtle hints towards that inside Ansem's vast darkness, as mentioned in the BBS Ultimania, although Nomura refused to give any clear answer, remains at least something of Terra.
When Ansem confronts Riku in La Cité des Cloches his goading towards Riku to accept the darkness again can be seen as both a manipulation and a warning, as Ansem should know since Chain of Memories that Riku walks the road to dawn and does not succumb to the darkness again like Frollo who was used as an example in DDD.
Unlike his speeches in CoM, Ansem also does only tell Riku to command the darkness, and never brings up the "bow to me" and "I will again control you"-part up again.
In their conversation in TWTNW Ansem lectures Riku more on his failure to protect Sora and links that to him refusing to use the darkness he learned to control. This mirrors somewhat Terra's own failure to protect Ventus and Aqua, and one could make the assumption that the "Terra-part" inside Ansem actually wants to see if darkness can truly be used to protect someone, as Ansem also states: "Set the darkness inside you free, and you can rescue your friend.", while this is a statement, it can also be seen as an instigation.
It's almost as he wants Riku to show him that darkness truly isn't completely bad and that he wants Riku to succeed on the same path he failed so utterly in BBS, maybe as a sort of preparation for his own rescue and renewing hope.
While it does say that Sora is the one who has to save everyone of the tormented, I am on the firm impression that both Riku and Ventus will play a bigger role in saving Terra as well alongside Sora. The former because of his ties to Terra and the promise made and the latter because of Terra's own words in BBS at Radiant Garden: "When I really need you, Ven, I know you'll be there."
This wasn't acted upon in BBS because Ven had too many own problems to properly help Terra, and later on his heart was already nearly destroyed again.

Now how does that relate to the pointy ears?
Well, it's also undeniable that Ansem has much, much Xehanort influence and most times his actions are more Xehanort-like than Terra-like, so maybe the changing of the ear-form indicates just that not everything about Ansem SoD is as it seems to be, not to mention that Ansem extending his hand invitingly towards Riku caused Riku to remember his meeting with Terra and the promise they made. When Riku is around Xemnas (like in KH 2 or at the end of DDD) he doesn't feel anything towards this issue at all.

 

[flyingfishstick]

It's funny how everyone was so sure that Xemnas was the one the one with the most Terra influence, but now there's more evidence to support that it was in fact Ansem! The main point I was trying to make was how Xehanort's plan would have panned out if Sora wasn't there to stop him in KH1. Xehanort wouldn't have split himself into two if he wasn't sure he would be able to return. Using Kingdom Hearts against his own heartless after it completed its purpose seems like a good way to remove him from play so that the original Organization XIII could move in and forge the X-Blade with the PoH’s light.

Ansem definitely knows more than he is letting on. In Kingdom Hearts, the Ansem reports make it clear that he remembers nothing of his past life. He has to rediscover heartless and how they function among numerous other things he would have already known in his original form. In DDD, the RF strangely knew all of the details of Xehanort’s plan and that Sora and Riku were making their way from the present to the Realm of Sleep for their Mark of Mastery Exam. Future events should be unknowable and even if the RF is in the past, he shouldn’t be able to tell unless he was made aware. I’d like to think that Xehanort visited him shortly before the events of DDD, but I’m not sure if that can happen without breaking the rules of time travel. Then again, Sora and Riku seemed to be able to return to destiny Islands without giving up their bodies and Timeless River is still a thing, so I guess there are multiple methods of time traveling. Ughh

 

[Memory Master]

Here's what I don't get, Xemnas' role in MX's plan was to gather 13 empty vessels to turn into the 13 seekers of darkness, which isn't confusing at all. On the other side of this plan was XH, whose role was to manipulate and monitor Maleficent's gathering of the 7 Princesses of Heart. Now my question is this: Did MX want XH to open the DTD? If so then why? What purpose does it serve toward bringing about the next Keyblade War?

The only answer I have been able to reach is that MX wanted XH to open the DTD so that the darkness held back by the DTD would flood into the realm of light thus destroying the barriers between all the worlds, even the ones not yet attacked by the heartless. Thus turning the realm of light into a darkness covered battlefield for the keyblade war.
Of course what also confuses me is if the Kingdom Hearts in KH1 was real or artificial? KH1 makes it seem like the real one, but KH3D says it was an artificial one created from the hearts of all the worlds taken by the heartless up until KH1. So i'm confused on XH's plans and intentions and how they work into MX's plan.

 

[flyingfishstick]

I was saying that Xehanort wanted Ansem to open the door to darkness so that he would go after Kingdom Hearts thinking that it was of darkness and destroy himself, setting up his return. MX knew it was actually light and was manipulating Ansem the whole time. Xemnas comes along with his XIII vessels and willingly ends his exsistance allowing MX to return and forge the X-Blade.

 

[The_Echo]

Here's what I don't get, Xemnas' role in MX's plan was to gather 13 empty vessels to turn into the 13 seekers of darkness, which isn't confusing at all. On the other side of this plan was XH, whose role was to manipulate and monitor Maleficent's gathering of the 7 Princesses of Heart. Now my question is this: Did MX want XH to open the DTD? If so then why? What purpose does it serve toward bringing about the next Keyblade War?

The only answer I have been able to reach is that MX wanted XH to open the DTD so that the darkness held back by the DTD would flood into the realm of light thus destroying the barriers between all the worlds, even the ones not yet attacked by the heartless. Thus turning the realm of light into a darkness covered battlefield for the keyblade war.
Of course what also confuses me is if the Kingdom Hearts in KH1 was real or artificial? KH1 makes it seem like the real one, but KH3D says it was an artificial one created from the hearts of all the worlds taken by the heartless up until KH1. So i'm confused on XH's plans and intentions and how they work into MX's plan.

The artificial Kingdom Hearts is the one built by the Organization, featured in Kingdom Hearts II.

The idea behind Ansem's plan (from the point of Master Xehanort) was to open the Door to Darkness, which not only would let darkness flow unto the World, but also open the way to the true Kingdom Hearts, which has been said to have sunk deep into the darkness.

Literally every means of attaining Kingdom Hearts (in its various forms) post-Birth by Sleep were backup plans in the event that he failed to reforge the χ-blade using Ventus and Vanitas.

 

[flyingfishstick]

I don't know about that. I seems as if KHI-KHII were two parts of the same plan. You need the X-Blade to control Kingdom Hearts and Xehanort knew that. Ansem was to gather the lights while Xemnas was to gather the darknesses. In Kingdom Hearts FM, Xemnas was even present in Hollow Bastion as if to imply that he was waiting for Sora's defeat to call the Vessels over to the PoH. However, Sora was not defeated and Xemnas tried to salvage his plan by creating an artificial Kingdom Hearts. Maybe he could have used it to regather the PoH or something.