Vulpeus/Ava Is Kairi's Grandma



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des97

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I already know this might sound crazy, but I have this theory of mine (I apologize if somebody else's already posted a similar thread) that I wanted to show you.
So we all know that long ago Master Ava founded the Dandelions, a group of selected people who survived the Keyblade War. She must've survived as well and lived long enough to tell the story to her granddaughter, Kairi. How would that be possible?
Clue number 1
. Master Ava can easily turn herself into other people thanks to her magic, and it would not be surprising if she could somehow create a copy of herself to trick the other Masters into thinking she actually participated the Keyblade War, while the real her managed to escape to the world outside (reference here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr2u4Jm3wNo In that mission, you had to fight your own Master. At the end of the fight, it would turn out to be Ava!)
Clue number 2. The way Ava runs resembles Kairi's. (Ava running, reference here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPoQw2J177c
Kairi running, reference here; sorry for potato quality, I couldn't find any better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1on53ERb4HM)
Clue number 3. Ava's clothes and height resemble Kairi's.
Clue number 4. I wanted to leave the biggest one at the end. So we all know Kairi's grandma story. If you don't recall it, here you are.

A long time ago, a warm light shined on the people in the worlds and they could live peacefully. Everybody loved this light. However as everyone wanted the light, a dispute started soon. Thereupon darkness was born in everyone's hearts. The darkness spread out rapidly and devoured many hearts and the light. The worlds got covered in darkness and disappeared completely.

The light she's talking about is obviously the Lux that appears in KHX/UX. The dispute ended up with the Keyblade War.


But a small light fragment remained. Inside the hearts of the children. The children rebuilt the vanished world with the power of the light fragments. This is our world. But the true light is still resting in the interior of darkness. Because the worlds can't be connected into one, they got seperated in many small worlds. However there is a day when surely in the interior of darkness a door will continue to open and the light will certainly return home.

The small light fragment is a reference to the Dandelions. Furthermore, she's implying that there used to be a single word (Daybreak Town) and now the worlds are shattered, but they'll become one again.


It's alright, even If you get swallowed by darkness, certainly there's light in the interior of darkness and it will protect you. It's because we must not lose to darkness. If you believe in the light of the interior of darkness, your heart becomes the light that illuminates the darkness and it can make everyone happy.

I've got nothing to say about this one.


How can she know so many details about what happened years and years ago from her timeline? Either this story got handed down for centuries or she must know something. And how does she know that? Well, she is Ava. She had a tome of prophecies (What if she still has it?). So far, the only ones who could possibly know about this tome are: Xehanort ("On that land shall darkness prevail and light expire") and Maleficent (KH Re:coded ending) and... Ava, of course.

What do you guys think?
 

Luxu

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Sorry to say. But Ava is deader than dead, unless she somehow went with Luxu into the future. And I don't see that happening, mainly because after their little fight it maybe changed Luxu's friendship with her.

Unless she went with the Dandelions or did the same thing the Player did.

But I believe Kairi's grandma might know about Ava, but with her not being seen for a while we don't know for sure. To confirm these speculations though we would need any Dandelions (Or anyone who had a real close bond with her, like the main characters of Chi did). As they would probably see through the illusion, also Ava would have to rest after a while...

Also doesn't Aqua run similar to Kairi?
 

Lanydx reborn

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That would be pretty cool, but unless Ava was frozen in time in the realm of sleep and sound her way back to the Realm of light, I dunno.
 

des97

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To start with, thank you for the feedback!

Sorry to say. But Ava is deader than dead, unless she somehow went with Luxu into the future. And I don't see that happening, mainly because after their little fight it maybe changed Luxu's friendship with her.

Unless she went with the Dandelions or did the same thing the Player did.

But I believe Kairi's grandma might know about Ava, but with her not being seen for a while we don't know for sure. To confirm these speculations though we would need any Dandelions (Or anyone who had a real close bond with her, like the main characters of Chi did). As they would probably see through the illusion, also Ava would have to rest after a while...

Also doesn't Aqua run similar to Kairi?
That's what I meant, I'm talking about the possibility of her having escaped to the world outside along with her Dandelions. Still, it's unexplainable how she knows so many details about thousand-year old events. And this fascinates me.
As for Aqua, I can't recall any time of her running without a keyblade, I would appreciate it if you could provide me video evidence.

They've already discussed that on youtube before:

[video=youtube;YA6gVLyOYnA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA6gVLyOYnA[/video]

I'm personally like idk about it. It's possible, but I'm more on the neutral side.
Never seen that video before, even though I follow HMK on YouTube. It's interesting, and partly linked to this theory. She could be Xehanort and Eraqus's master, considering Young Eraqus stated in the KH3 trailer: "Yeah, that's the master's favorite story" referring to Young Xehanort's previous words.

That would be pretty cool, but unless Ava was frozen in time in the realm of sleep and sound her way back to the Realm of light, I dunno.
Do people age in the Realm of Sleep? Considering the latest speculations about Ventus being part of the original trio (Ventus-Ephemera-Skuld) and about him being a Dandelion, I wouldn't talk about "aging". Not to mention that the aging rules in the Kingdom Hearts universe are pretty strange, even though they make sense.
 
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DarkosOverlord

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As others said, the 1000 years barrier is a huge hurdle to this and similar theories.

I would like to add: this "grandma knew about the legend proof" seems to be really popular.
I... don't think it means anything, really.

First, the lore around Keyblade and similar stuff is not completely obscure, especially to the elders: Triton knew about the key, for once. Ansem himself described in his reports that even when Mickey visited him, he was aware of some legends around it.
Given this, I don't think an old lady, a citizen of the "city of light", knowing a semi-unclear legend that doesn't even mention the Keyblade isn't that weird.

Second... old lady in jrpg knowing about an ancient fairytale that is linked to the main story. Not really that uncommon, and no real hidden meaning behind it. It seems just a regular trope to me.

That being said, it's true that Xehanort mention that Keyblade Masters can trick death by changing bodies, hinting someone else might've done that before... but I'm more inclined towards Luxu/MoM than Ava.
 

appleboy82791

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It sounds to me like there could be an element of truth to this theory. I definitely wouldn't just toss it to the side. But I also doubt it's 100% right.

As others said, the 1000 years barrier is a huge hurdle to this and similar theories.

I would like to add: this "grandma knew about the legend proof" seems to be really popular.
I... don't think it means anything, really.

First, the lore around Keyblade and similar stuff is not completely obscure, especially to the elders: Triton knew about the key, for once. Ansem himself described in his reports that even when Mickey visited him, he was aware of some legends around it.
Given this, I don't think an old lady, a citizen of the "city of light", knowing a semi-unclear legend that doesn't even mention the Keyblade isn't that weird.

Second... old lady in jrpg knowing about an ancient fairytale that is linked to the main story. Not really that uncommon, and no real hidden meaning behind it. It seems just a regular trope to me.

That being said, it's true that Xehanort mention that Keyblade Masters can trick death by changing bodies, hinting someone else might've done that before... but I'm more inclined towards Luxu/MoM than Ava.
This is a really good counterpoint. I like it.
 

catcake

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Basically everything that Darkos said. Besides, when have family members ever been relevant in KH? :D Kairi's grandmother is the only who got screentime and even she's just a memory. Who knows if she's even alive in the current time since Kairi was young in the memory, and I never got the feeling that she would be important. There's often a character in fantasy settings that explains the way the world works to the viewer/reader through a legend. It gave us some information about the world, but she didn't say anything that we haven't already gotten to know in other later games. Also, we don't know if Dandelions age, but based on Chi ending it's likely they don't.

I doubt characters like her get any screentime again, which is fine by me since we have lots of others who really need it.
 

des97

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Is this because of aizy-boy's drawings?
Guys...
I honestly have no idea of what you're talking about, I swear.

As others said, the 1000 years barrier is a huge hurdle to this and similar theories.

I would like to add: this "grandma knew about the legend proof" seems to be really popular.
I... don't think it means anything, really.

First, the lore around Keyblade and similar stuff is not completely obscure, especially to the elders: Triton knew about the key, for once. Ansem himself described in his reports that even when Mickey visited him, he was aware of some legends around it.
Given this, I don't think an old lady, a citizen of the "city of light", knowing a semi-unclear legend that doesn't even mention the Keyblade isn't that weird.

Second... old lady in jrpg knowing about an ancient fairytale that is linked to the main story. Not really that uncommon, and no real hidden meaning behind it. It seems just a regular trope to me.

That being said, it's true that Xehanort mention that Keyblade Masters can trick death by changing bodies, hinting someone else might've done that before... but I'm more inclined towards Luxu/MoM than Ava.
The 1000 years barrier is relative. Consider the Realm of Darkness, for instance.
As for what you said afterwards, I can't explain how she knows so many details to the story.
It sounds to me like there could be an element of truth to this theory. I definitely wouldn't just toss it to the side. But I also doubt it's 100% right.
I do believe there is something eerie about Kairi's grandma. That's why I opened this thread.

Basically everything that Darkos said. Besides, when have family members ever been relevant in KH? :D Kairi's grandmother is the only who got screentime and even she's just a memory. Who knows if she's even alive in the current time since Kairi was young in the memory, and I never got the feeling that she would be important. There's often a character in fantasy settings that explains the way the world works to the viewer/reader through a legend. It gave us some information about the world, but she didn't say anything that we haven't already gotten to know in other later games. Also, we don't know if Dandelions age, but based on Chi ending it's likely they don't.

I doubt characters like her get any screentime again, which is fine by me since we have lots of others who really need it.
I'm not assuming she's alive at all. She was during the period of BBS, that's for granted. And yeah, the Dandelions didn't age, given that Ventus was probably one of them.
 
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DarkosOverlord

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The 1000 years barrier is relative. Consider the Real of Darkness, for instance.
I agree it's relative, that's why I call it an hurdle more than an impossibility.
There are ways to go around the time thing, we just don't know when and if Ava had access to them.
 

Kaijuguy19

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I think Kairi's grandmother at least was around that time or at after that time period to know such details.
 

des97

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Kairi's grandma is over a thousand years old? Man, the candles on that birthday cake.

Also... details? That legend didn't seem so detailed to me.
Still, the number 1 question is: how does she know about the Dandelions? Not to mention that her story was used for the beginning of KH:Chi. Considering they're the ones who survived (and we do not know when they actually woke up), she could as well be into something, couldn't she? We are also inclined to think that the Dandelions didn't age (Ventus is a good example).
 

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Still, the number 1 question is: how does she know about the Dandelions? Not to mention that her story was used for the beginning of KH:Chi. Considering they're the ones who survived (and we do not know when they actually woke up), she could as well be into something, couldn't she? We are also inclined to think that the Dandelions didn't age (Ventus is a good example).
She knows because it's a fairytale. Everybody knows those types of stories.
Also, yes, she does mention kids building up the World, but she does not specifically say "Dandelions", so.
 
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