Vanitas' "Plan B" with Aqua makes no sense



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS

Samhain

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
2,040
It says in the reports
that a heart of pure light and ONLY pure light and ONLY pure darkness must fight at even level and connect to form the X Blade

because Aqua is not one of the 7 princesses who are the only ones who have heart of full light then how can Vanitas use her to make the X blade? impossible. Aqua has a little darkness. she does not have a heart of pure light so it won't work. i don't get it.

You need to have both so your heart doesn't remain shattered. People don't seem to understand this. That's why Ven's extraction would have been failure if it wasn't for Sora. Vanitas connected his heart to Sora as well which is why he looked like him and why he didn't die either

So how would it work for Aqua? You're going to tell me she'd basically have to go through the same process as Ven, and that will take forever. Why would Vanitas wait that long? It doesn't work

I think the dialogue was in the wrong here
 

Ruran

Flesh by mother, soul by father
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
4,653
  • Quack Attack
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Rising Star
  • Keyblade Master
Remember in the KGY when Vanitas knocked Aqua out and was positioning his Keyblade over her? He appeared to be using the same technique that MX used to extract the darkness from Ven, but didn't get to finish.

You don't need both light and darkness in a heart to function, Sora did nothing but work as a human bandaid to keep Ven's heart from crumbling away further, but he didn't give him anything.

Mind, that Aqua is a Keyblade master who was trained for years to refine the strength in her heart and push the darkness away as much as possible and is an adult women. Ven was a scared novice who was originally intended to be MX's new host, but proved to be too weak and couldn't have been more than just twelve. Aqua probably wouldn't sustain nearly as much damage from the extraction.
 

Samhain

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
2,040
Remember in the KGY when Vanitas knocked Aqua out and was positioning his Keyblade over her? He appeared to be using the same technique that MX used to extract the darkness from Ven, but didn't get to finish.

You don't need both light and darkness in a heart to function, Sora did nothing but work as a human bandaid to keep Ven's heart from crumbling away further, but he didn't give him anything.

Mind, that Aqua is a Keyblade master who was trained for years to refine the strength in her heart and push the darkness away as much as possible and is an adult women. Ven was a scared novice who was originally intended to be MX's new host, but proved to be too weak and couldn't have been more than just twelve. Aqua probably wouldn't sustain nearly as much damage from the extraction.
Where are you getting this from?

You absolutely do need light and darkness for a proper heart. When there's darkness, there is light...where there is light there is darkness...unless you are "7 Princesses of Hearts". Aqua is not. She will suffer the same damage Ventus did. You can't live with a heart of pure darkness/light unless connected towards someone who has. The series has proved countless times that you need both in order to function

Ventus AND Vanitas both connected their hearts to Sora...which is why they didn't die. Aqua wouldn't survive of a heart of just pure light without connecting her heart towards someone, and that'd in terms be a nuisance to Vanitas because it'd take awhile.
 

Ruran

Flesh by mother, soul by father
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
4,653
  • Quack Attack
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Rising Star
  • Keyblade Master
Where are you getting this from?

You absolutely do need light and darkness for a proper heart. When there's darkness, there is light...where there is light there is darkness...unless you are "7 Princesses of Hearts". Aqua is not. She will suffer the same damage Ventus did. You can't live with a heart of pure darkness/light unless connected towards someone who has. The series has proved countless times that you need both in order to function

Ventus AND Vanitas both connected their hearts to Sora...which is why they didn't die. Aqua wouldn't survive of a heart of just pure light without connecting her heart towards someone, and that'd in terms be a nuisance to Vanitas because it'd take awhile.
A heart can function with just one or the other. That's the entire premise of Ven and Vanitas, they were one heart split into pure dark and light and have always been regarded that way. Ven needed to connect his heart to someone because Vanitas "took to much" as Xehanort put it. He was too damaged and left in a catatonic like state. Vanitas was fine, he didn't need his heart connected to Sora, that was merely a subsequent matter. It's never stated anywhere that Ven was dying because he lacked darkness. He was dying because he had a gaping hole in his heart as seen by his Station of Waking.

The series has not proven countless times that you need both to function, just that light and darkness are a natural part of hearts. What it has proven is that beings can exist with just either one or the other, or without even a heart at all.
 

OathkeeperRoxas XIII

Silver Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
4,659
Age
28
Location
Destiny Islands
Website
www.fanfiction.net
A heart can function with just one or the other. That's the entire premise of Ven and Vanitas, they were one heart split into pure dark and light and have always been regarded that way. Ven needed to connect his heart to someone because Vanitas "took to much" as Xehanort put it. He was too damaged and left in a catatonic like state. Vanitas was fine, he didn't need his heart connected to Sora, that was merely a subsequent matter. It's never stated anywhere that Ven was dying because he lacked darkness. He was dying because he had a gaping hole in his heart as seen by his Station of Waking.

The series has not proven countless times that you need both to function, just that light and darkness are a natural part of hearts. What it has proven is that beings can exist with just either one or the other, or without even a heart at all.
To add what she said, Kairi and all six princesses are born without darkness in their hearts, just like how Vanitas and Ventus survived without their other half for so long.
 

Samhain

Bronze Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
2,040
A heart can function with just one or the other.
Based on what exactly? No they can't unless they want to be a shell of themselves...or they have to connect their heart with someone who has light and darkness
That's the entire premise of Ven and Vanitas, they were one heart split into pure dark and light and have always been regarded that way. Ven needed to connect his heart to someone because Vanitas "took to much" as Xehanort put it. He was too damaged and left in a catatonic like state. Vanitas was fine, he didn't need his heart connected to Sora, that was merely a subsequent matter.
Vanitas still had to connect his heart to Sora anyway. Vanitas was fine because he did take too much...but if it continued on he'd be a shell of himself. Once Ventus connected his heart to Sora...Vanitas did as well and got a personality + face
t's never stated anywhere that Ven was dying because he lacked darkness. He was dying because he had a gaping hole in his heart as seen by his Station of Waking.
Because his heart was shattered because he had no darkness in his heart. You can't live with one without the other. that is why the princesses of heart are so special.

again they are the only beings who have pure light in them. That includes Sora, Aqua, etc. That alone helps my case saying you need both in order to function

The series has not proven countless times that you need both to function, just that light and darkness are a natural part of hearts. What it has proven is that beings can exist with just either one or the other, or without even a heart at all.
Nobodies were a shell when they had no heart. We learn that eventually the heart grows again...so what was your point in that?

Again unless you can disapprove what I'm saying everyone in the KH universe has light AND darkness in their heart, with the exception of the PoL...that's what made them special. Sora has darkness in his heart...little, but he still does. Aqua has darkness in her heart, and so on.

You have to live with both in order to function and BBS proved that theory already. There has been no one in the series who had to have a heart of Pure Light who wasn't a POL and function properly. Unless without connecting their heart to someone which brings me back to square one by saying 'plan b' was completely useless and pointless because they'd have to go through all of that again.

To add what she said, Kairi and all six princesses are born without darkness in their hearts, just like how Vanitas and Ventus survived without their other half for so long.
-face palm

that's the princess of LIGHT. that's what makes them special
The only reason Ventus and Vanitas lasted as they did is because they connected their hearts to Sora. They'd die if they're just pure light or pure darkness. Period.
 

Solo

Silver Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
4,606
Age
29
Location
Indonesia
  • Nothing's Like Before
  • Dandelion
  • Retired Staff
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts χ[chi]
  • Bravely Default
We need to remember that Ventus functioned without darkness. Yes, he was dying because too much part of his heart had been stripped off him, but thanks to Sora's intervention he managed to live while not holding any darkness in his heart. Remember what Even said in Radiant Garden while observing him?

Even in BbS said:
A heart devoid of darkness? Stripped clean of it, at that... very questionable.
If Ventus' survival isn't proof enough as to one can live without light or darkness in their heart, Even's remarks should fortify the truth value to that premise.
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
Based on what exactly? No they can't unless they want to be a shell of themselves...or they have to connect their heart with someone who has light and darkness

Vanitas still had to connect his heart to Sora anyway. Vanitas was fine because he did take too much...but if it continued on he'd be a shell of himself. Once Ventus connected his heart to Sora...Vanitas did as well and got a personality + face
Except Vanitas never actually connected with Sora directly. His connection was indirect through Ventus:
-- How did you decide on the design for their faces?
Nomura: Well Terra's look was already a decided thing, we just had to make him look a bit younger. I knew that Ventus should look either like Sora or Roxas, and I wasn't sure which one to go with, but I thought Vanitas looking like Sora would have a bigger impact so I had Ventus look like Roxas instead. And there is a reason that Vanitas looks like Sora. As Sora filled in Ventus' fractured heart, the fractured part (Vanitas) was effected by Sora and ended up with Sora's face. So if it had been Riku who had filled in Ventus' heart, Vanitas would have looked like Riku.
Nothing says Sora connected to Vanitas directly anywhere.
Because his heart was shattered because he had no darkness in his heart. You can't live with one without the other. that is why the princesses of heart are so special
Funny you say that when Vanitas seemed all but perfectly fine standing there and talking while ventus was the one laying on the ground fading away.



Xehanort's Report 10

As was to be expected, Ventus lacked the constitution for such an ordeal. I was able to remove the darkness inside him and create Vanitas, a heart of pure darkness, but Ventus drifted into the clutches of sleep.

Ventus' heart of pure light and Vanitas's heart of pure darkness...If both could be made strong enough to one day clash, I know the χ-blade would be forged.

But Vanitas took too much of Ventus's heart, and from that fracture, I could see the last of Ventus's light was slipping away. The boy deserved a place to spend his final moments peacefully. And what should come to mind but my own boyhood home.
And all of this listed here is before Sora saved Ventus.

Nobodies were a shell when they had no heart. We learn that eventually the heart grows again...so what was your point in that?
The point is to show that beings can indeed exist without a heart at all even for a time and if they can exist without one at all till they form a new one then it's completely possible they can live with one lacking light or dark.


-face palm

that's the princess of LIGHT. that's what makes them special
The only reason Ventus and Vanitas lasted as they did is because they connected their hearts to Sora. They'd die if they're just pure light or pure darkness. Period.
As always your asking for proof but offering none yourself.

The fact that 7 beings are born completely devoid of light, function perfectly fine, along with the fact that it's said darkness didn't find it's way into peoples hearts until the keyblade war show it is indeed possible.
 
Last edited:

Solo

Silver Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
4,606
Age
29
Location
Indonesia
  • Nothing's Like Before
  • Dandelion
  • Retired Staff
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts χ[chi]
  • Bravely Default
I'd also like to add one thing which ties to Anagram's post above.

Samhain, you said that Vanitas' plan B didn't make sense as Aqua would die since she had no one to connect with. Then, wouldn't you think Master Xehanort's plan to extract Ventus' darkness had made no sense either as he would die, and Master Xehanort didn't know he would connect with someone?

But of course, this didn't make no sense. The fact that Master Xehanort had wanted to pit Ventus against Vanitas suggests, if not screams, that he knew a being could function with just light or darkness. And at that time, like Anagram said, Sora had not been introduced into the equation.
 

Ruran

Flesh by mother, soul by father
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
4,653
  • Quack Attack
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Rising Star
  • Keyblade Master
Based on what exactly? No they can't unless they w.ant to be a shell of themselves...or they have to connect their heart with someone who has light and darkness

Vanitas still had to connect his heart to Sora anyway. Vanitas was fine because he did take too much...but if it continued on he'd be a shell of himself. Once Ventus connected his heart to Sora...Vanitas did as well and got a personality + face
Again, it was never stated that Ven and Vanitas had to connect their hearts to someone else because they lacked light and darkness respectively. It wasn't even hinted at in any way that Vanitas had to do so at all. Ven had to because his heart was broken, a bleeding wound. It had nothing to do with Ven not having darkness and everything do with that gaping hole.

Because his heart was shattered because he had no darkness in his heart. You can't live with one without the other. that is why the princesses of heart are so special.

again they are the only beings who have pure light in them. That includes Sora, Aqua, etc. That alone helps my case saying you need both in order to function
I must ask were you're getting this yourself. Where was it stated or shown that Ven's heart being shattered was a directly caused by Ven lacking darkness? It looked more like MX dicking around and shooting a magic laser into chest to me.

Nobodies were a shell when they had no heart. We learn that eventually the heart grows again...so what was your point in that?
My point it's that by definition, Nobodies are creatures that function without hearts. Whether or not they eventually grows hearts is irrelevant.

Again unless you can disapprove what I'm saying everyone in the KH universe has light AND darkness in their heart, with the exception of the PoL...that's what made them special. Sora has darkness in his heart...little, but he still does. Aqua has darkness in her heart, and so on.
I'm not arguing that, I'm arguing that functioning with a heart of pure light or darkness is possible without connecting to someone else, excluding the PoH.

You have to live with both in order to function and BBS proved that theory already. There has been no one in the series who had to have a heart of Pure Light who wasn't a POL and function properly. Unless without connecting their heart to someone which brings me back to square one by saying 'plan b' was completely useless and pointless because they'd have to go through all of that again.
Again, where are you getting this?
 

Gram

Banned
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15,616
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Master of Monologues
  • Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 ReMIX
  • Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
  • Keyblade Master
I'd also like to add one thing which ties to Anagram's post above.

Samhain, you said that Vanitas' plan B didn't make sense as Aqua would die since she had no one to connect with. Then, wouldn't you think Master Xehanort's plan to extract Ventus' darkness had made no sense either as he would die, and Master Xehanort didn't know he would connect with someone?
But of course, this didn't make no sense. The fact that Master Xehanort had wanted to pit Ventus against Vanitas suggests, if not screams, that he knew a being could function with just light or darkness. And at that time, like Anagram said, Sora had not been introduced into the equation.


This fact also being shown here:
BBS Xehanort report 9 said:
.....I would remove the darkness from his heart and split him in two. Then I would have my heart of pure light, and my heart of pure darkness.
report 10 said:
Xehanort's Report 10

As was to be expected, Ventus lacked the constitution for such an ordeal. I was able to remove the darkness inside him and create Vanitas, a heart of pure darkness, but Ventus drifted into the clutches of sleep.

Ventus' heart of pure light and Vanitas's heart of pure darkness...If both could be made strong enough to one day clash, I know the χ-blade would be forged.

But Vanitas took too much of Ventus's heart, and from that fracture, I could see the last of Ventus's light was slipping away. The boy deserved a place to spend his final moments peacefully. And what should come to mind but my own boyhood home.

My legs took me there unbidden, and as I stood there on the same beach where I had made my choice so many years ago, I thought: not a single thing has changed. Here, in this quiet world, time marches in place. Content that Ventus would find peace here, I started to walk away - but just then, the boy held up his Keyblade. The light within him had not died.
MX suspected Ventus wouldn't survive it to begin with and was taking him off to die. Ventus needing to connect to anyone was not in his plans.
 

Ruran

Flesh by mother, soul by father
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
4,653
  • Quack Attack
  • You've Got A Friend In Me
  • Rising Star
  • Keyblade Master
Regarding MX's plan and Aqua, it should also be noted that the whole "one pure heart of light + one pure heart darkness = X-Blade" was always a hasty, incomplete formula. The "true" formula is seven lights vs thirteen darkness, most of which will most likely not be pure. The Ven and Vanitas plan was MX trying to compensate with quality over quantity so to speak.

Before MX met Ven and was still contemplating what to do, I believe he mentioned in his reports somewhere "pitting a student of darkness against one of Eraqus' student of light". Now, it's been a while since I've been through the reports so I can be remembering parts wrong, but it sounds like MX's idea has changed to incorporate the pure vs pure thing later and was just going to have two people with really strong light and darkness fight. Given the circumstances, that "student of light" was always meant to be Aqua.

Basically, MX was just experimenting and the Ven/Van thing was a theory that somewhat worked. Had it been done with Aqua, perhaps she would have needed to be pure, or maybe even she would have been fine as was. What we do know is that the X-Blade can be created a variety of ways, it's just not guaranteed to be stable every time.
 
Top