Vanitas' Current Situation



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So I'm starting this thread so I can get some true clarity about this subject. For a long time i couldn't understand why people have it in there mind that Vanitas was destroyed by Ventus at the end of his story. At first I just went along with it (like most more than likely did) and assumed this was the case. However after doing some thorough research, I've come to the conclusion that this simply can't be correct. Now before I go into why, let's make an overview of his character first. Not his story, but his anatomy.

Vanitas was created from Ventus due to Master Xehanort breaking his heart in two, after Ventus failed to use his Darkness. This makes him a very unique existence as he is the physical embodiment of Ventus' darkness. That being said, he's not human. You see when Ventus was broken he never lost his body, it was clearly not effect by the separation. Recall that while he was being split only part of his heart was visibly being removed from his body. Shortly after the heart fragment was engulfed in a dark orb before his personal body was formed. In other words his body was formed purely from darkness. More evidence for his abnormal body is the fact that he was actually faceless upon his initial creation. Described as something similar to a heartless, but with red eyes (similar to a nightmare or unversed).

Vanitas can create Unversed fledgling emotions that have token form (specifically negative emotions). It was a side-effect of being separated. Meaning if he "cease to exist", so do they.

During his battle with Ventus in the Keyblade Graveyard he was defeated before speaking the line "Now that my body is about to perish, you and I will have to join together." After he says this he approaches the restrained Ventus, and merges with him. By doing this he successfully spawns the X-blade and becomes whole. However this is short lived due to his final defeat at the hands of Ventus in their shared mind, thus seemingly destroying Vanitas for good and ridding the worlds of the unversed.

Now while I understand where this point is coming from, please tell me what states, or even HINTS to this conclusion? First I'd like to address some common arguments I see for this topic.

1) The Unversed are nowhere to be found after Birth By Sleep. Not even mentioned.
Response: This is true, the Unversed aren't anywhere after Birth By Sleep. However, There are quite a few ways to tie up this loose end. First, remember that the Unversed are side effects of Ventus' and Vanitas' separation. They are Vanitas' negative emotions and thoughts (as revealed in the novel) that get released from his mind both at will and uncontrollably. Though its never stated, this was more than likely due to the fact that Vanitas is pure darkness with no light to keep his thoughts at bay. Meaning once he joined with Ventus and became whole again, the unversed more than likely could not escape or even sustain themselves. Though this is a maybe. A more likely answer comes from a secret boss in the game known as Vanitas' lingering spirit. Canonically, Aqua fights this boss while looking for Terra, mistaking the creature for her friend. Though she manages to defeat it before it fades back into the darkness. Vanitas Remnant was described in its character profile to be "A physical manifestation of what remained of Vanitas' powerful thoughts and feelings." Sound familiar? This boss is more than likely the combination of all the remaining Unversed. In other words Vanitas' thoughts and feelings. And thanks to Sora's heartless in re:coded we know that if something evolves enough, it can begin to look like the real thing.

2) Vanitas MUST have been destroyed, otherwise Ventus wouldn't have had to retreat to Sora's heart. We even see him perish after he loses the X-Blade!
Response: Actually that scene isn't quite as straight forward as one might think at first glance (though to be honest, I never really interpreted that scene as Vanitas' "death" to begin with). First off all, neither darkness nor a heart can be destroyed. As stated many MANY times by multiple individuals in the series, as long as there is light, darkness will always continue to exist no matter the circumstance. Meaning so long as Ventus' heart continues to exist, so will Vanitas. And all the heart is are the unique memories someone creates, and the feelings associated with those memories (as stated by Xemnas and Sora in Dream Drop Distance). Hence why Ansem the Wise instead attempted to convert the artificial Kingdom Hearts into data (though even this ended in failure) rather than destroy it all together.
Second, upon closer inspection of that scene, you begin to notice very odd details. Like for example, when Vanitas is falling after losing the X-Blade, a piece of him DOES manage to make contact with Ventus' heart before it changes back to normal. In fact the way they emphasis this shot makes it appear like its deliberate (almost as if that's what prompted it to go back to normal to begin with). While most would use this scene as proof for the other way around, I found it odd that Ventus' heart appeared this way, at all. Given the circumstances, his heart should of resembled the way it did back when he was on Destiny Islands in the beginning of the game. After all he would've no longer needed Sora's help. Oh, and while I'm on the subject, I'd like to point out that Ventus actually kept a majority of his heart. But his light was escaping his heart at a rapid rate, which is what Sora follows in order to find Ventus. The scene where Sora helps Ventus helps to visually support this too. Which might explain why Vanitas constantly feels so empty, but that's supposition. Anyway, I also went on to check to the trinity archives for Ventus in order to see if there were any solid confirmations of anything about Vanitas dying. To my surprise, it was incredibly vague about the ending of Ven's story.



Spoiler Spoiler Show


Notice that the text doesn't refer to Vanitas' fate, or even the state of Ven's heart, at all. Whats more interesting is the trinity archive for Aqua's final episode. For the purposes of this thread, I want you to focus on the bottom.

Spoiler Spoiler Show


I'm sure the evidence speaks for it self, but I would like to clarify something. In the scene where Ventus meets a young Sora for the second time, he was apparently floating in his own darkness. Meaning Ventus' darkness still exist, and by extension Vanitas. Though I personally wouldn't consider him(Vanitas) present in this scene, even though he technically is. You see the fact that the darkness Ventus was floating in was his own darkness, means Vanitas ceased to exist as an independent faction. In other words he just wasn't darkness that was sentient anymore. Or at least that's what it seems to be implying. On that note there's one more thing I'd like to point out. When I say "ceased to exist", I mean ceased to exist in the Realm of Light (that's what the term means when its used in the series). It doesn't mean there's no trace left of him, just that he didn't PHYSICALLY exist anymore. Similar to Roxas at the end of Kingdom Hearts 2 (this was actually stated in his character profile for Dream Drop Distance). If you want to get real technical, Vanitas technically ceased to exist when he merged with Ventus. So with all things considered, lets discuss some possible theories on that Ventus final boss ending scene and make some sense out of this. Based on the fact that Ventus' dive to heart went back to normal and not into a fractured state, its possible that Vanitas could've of simply relinquished control of their heart back to Ventus. That would explain how Vanitas was technically present when Ven met Sora at the end of Birth By Sleep, and why Ventus' heart wasn't visibly fractured at the end of their battle. But this poses a question, if Ventus' heart wasn't fractured then why flee his body? Well I never said his heart WASN'T fractured, just no where near the extent it was before. A fracture isn't necessarily a full breakage of something, technically it can be something as small as a crack. It's also possible that his heart was simply exhausted to a severe level. Hence the need to "sleep." Though this answer is sadly just supposition. There's simply no real way to get a definitive answer on this specific question, at least not one that I know of. But assuming this is the case, this poses ANOTHER question. If Ventus' whole heart left his body, then why didn't his body fade and possibly become a nobody in the Realm Between? Well its possible that its because Ventus' soul was still in his heart. We know thanks to a interview with Tetsuya Nomura (forgive me I can't find the specific one at the moment), that it is possible for hearts to carry souls out of their body. This is evident when Master Xehanort possesses Terra. So its possible this is the reason Ventus' body is comatose.


As for Vanitas' status as a Seeker of Darkness in Kingdom Hearts 3, there are a couple of theories I have in mind.


1) He could be inside of Ventus', and by extension Sora's, heart. Giving some meaning to Young Xehanort's famous line in La Cité des Cloches. Though I'm unsure how Xehanort would even plan to deal with this.


2) Young Xehanort time traveled to bring him back for the KH3 finale. Though this is questionable because Tetsuya Nomura stated in an interview that unlike Ansem and Xemnas, Vanitas doesn't have a body at this time. Rather, what we're seeing in that Young Xehanort scene is Ventus' heart "reacting." This is strange because going off the Kingdom Hearts 3 trailer, Vanitas HAS to be one the 13. What's even more confusing is we saw all the Seekers of Darkness present in the Room Where Nothing Gathers at the end of DDD. ALL OF THEM (bar the thirteenth) were in that room. Meaning they either somehow got Vanitas a body, or they have him as a possible back up. I mean, there IS a perfectly good body sitting unguarded in Castle Oblivion after all. All Xehanort would need to do is find it. That's IF he has Vanitas' heart somehow.


But enough with the theories, lets wrap this up!!


So in summary, I just can't believe that Vanitas perished at the end of BBS. And even if he somehow DOES, it won't have been because of this fight. Though I'm very interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this subject now that I've pretty much stated my concerns. I've also given you my personal thoughts on his inevitable status as one of the thirteen Seekers of Darkness, so feel free to leave your thoughts on that too. I look forward to seeing THAT user reply!
 
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Platinum End

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The way how i see Vantias in KH3, there are so many ways they can go about with this character. He is most likely one of the seekers of darkness but he also had f Now i wouldn't say Vantias is completely destroyed because he is half of Ven. Incoming spoiler alert but since Ven is currently sleeping in Castle Oblivion, there's a chance that Vantias is also sleeping. As for where he is sleeping idk but im willing to bet when Ven awakens Vantias will too. Besides bring back vantias would perfect way to conclude the saga with the heartless, nobodies, and unverse.
 

Alpha Baymax

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So basically, Ventus and Vanitas is like a hostile corporate merger. Ventus is the target company and Vanitas is the acquirer company. Vanitas acquires all shares of Ventus, and Ventus ceases to exist as a legal entity. The succeeding company is renamed Ven-Vanitas. The company then has a corporate split to Ventus and Vanitas again. Ventus acquires all the assets of Vanitas and dissolves Vanitas as a legal entity, but assets of Vanitas remain in Ventus.

But seriously, outside of metaphorical comparisons, it can give context why Xehanort is searching for Ventus's body. Vanitas' will needs a host seeing as Vanitas' heart is no longer with his body, and his former body is the perfect host.
 
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Sephiroth0812

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seeing as Ventus heart is not connected to his body
You may want to re-evaluate this as Dream Drop Distance shows us exactly the opposite when Ventus' body smiles because his heart inside Sora feels Sora's happiness when meeting the Dream Eaters.
In order to make the body smile, there must be some connection.
 

Alpha Baymax

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You may want to re-evaluate this as Dream Drop Distance shows us exactly the opposite when Ventus' body smiles because his heart inside Sora feels Sora's happiness when meeting the Dream Eaters.
In order to make the body smile, there must be some connection.
That was a typo, I was meaning to say Vanitas in that sentence, but thanks for pointing that out anyway.
 

catcake

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I'm sending 10 bags of angry mail to SE if Vanitas is not in KH3 after they included his theme in a veery suspicious section of the concert. Also he appeared in DDD so I don't believe at all that his story is over. If all the teasers are for nothing I'll be upset.
 

S.Gill17

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I personally believe that we are not finished with Vanitas and I actually have a feeling that he might be a SoD. Whether he gets his body back or is using another is unknown to me at the moment. But I personally feel that he will be in KH3 as a SoD - Xehanort cannot be done with such a person who has so much potential.
 

DarkGrey Heroine

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Ya presented the situation in detail very nicely and yes, I also tend to believe (well, in fact that means I 99% strongly believe) that Vanitas still exists, his existence never stop "being" and in one form or another it's still around.
When we closely observe the scene after the Ventus VS Vanitas battle in BBS, we can see Vanitas desperately reaching out to the X-Blade, after which he starts falling - he closes his eyes and falls back, falls towards Ven's Dive to the Heart (which is a representation of his heart, in the KH universe), then, as his body shatters in many luminous pieces floating upwards, the most of these shiny pieces actually fall on and seem to be "assimilated" by the dark platform (again, Ven's heart) - this results in the dark platform's "purification", it is no longer engulfed in darkness (Vanitas took control before) and thus it reveals Ven's heart platform, beautifully radiating, for Ven to look at it and smile just before his body also shatters in many shiny pieces, all floating upwards together with one that is his heart (the light orb with the pink/light red aura, the usual representation of a heart upon its release. We see it many times after certain KH battles). This scene alone made me suspicious whether Vanitas disappeared for good or if his individual existence was just reunited with Ventus in a resolved benign state.

As a Seeker of Darkness, I think Vanitas is the one that can be trusted the least. Even under Xehanort's direct apprenticeship he showed signs of disobeying the masters orders, based on his own will and what he "felt like" doing (like fighting/defeating/killing still-weak Ventus on spot cuz why not, right? thankfully King Mickey was there to help). Technically, Xehanort and Vanitas had at least one shared goal that included fighting Ventus in the end, so Vanitas could have patiently played along because him and Xehanort were kinda "partners" on that one, but still Vanitas was like "I won't hesitate, b*tch" that time. His cruel, volcanic temperament doesn't sound like the promise of a good, loyal vessel. Saix/Isa's case, for example, isn't as problematic as Vanitas's, I think - Vanitas is too much of a wild card unless he's going to be completely brainwashed and "drained" of any "quantity" of his individuality. His individuality is a force, after all, and it's mostly composed of bad news lol

I'm sending 10 bags of angry mail to SE if Vanitas is not in KH3 after they included his theme in a veery suspicious section of the concert.
^^^ this. me too, I still can't get over the "Heroes and Heroines" thing. It may be just coincidence but my experience in this fandom screams "a coincidence?? in KH?? get real!"
 
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