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SweetYetSalty

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I have more unpopular thoughts on how KH2 handled Roxas. Yeah, he's my favorite character in the series, but I still feel his introduction into the series was not perfect.

Surprisingly while replaying KH2 in FM, the whole Roxas vs Organization XIII thing feels very one sided in KH2. Taking 358/2 Days out of the equation, Roxas has no reason to hate the Organization in KH2. In fact we never see him with anyone besides Axel and Xemnas, and both are kind to him. We all know his history with Axel and the game doesn't tell us how they had a falling out. But with Xemnas we see him talking calmly with him on the shores just asking if Roxas remembers his true name. And then we get another flashback of Xemnas finding a zombie Roxas lost in Twlight Town, and giving him his name and promising him a purpose in life. Good ole poppa Xemnas. He was even kinda excited at the thought of Roxas's reawakening when Sora entered TWTNW. Such a villain.

From a outsider looking in with no context, Roxas is looking kinda ungrateful here. And because the game never shows anything Roxas did in the Organization we only have what other characters have to say on it. I'm ignoring Days for the following since it came out later, and thankfully filled in the blanks.

Demyx was quite happy to see Roxas through Sora, and even begged him to come back (likely because his work load doubled lol) and when he doesn't he gets serious with the "traitor" line. But up until that point it sounds like Roxas and Demyx had been on good terms.

Then you had Luxord who seemed hurt by Roxas's betrayal. Luxord is given no time at all in this game to feel like a character, but this one line made him feel like he and Roxas shared some kind of companionship. Was I suppose to feel good or bad about Luxord's line before death? Sora sure as heck didn't care about it, and neither did Roxas.

Even Saix complements Roxas through Sora before they fight, almost a Saix way of showing respect to his strength as a warrior. And while that's all you'll get from him, there is no hint of a feud between Roxas and Saix in this game. With Saix it was all business. He wanted Roxas eliminated because he was a traitor. It did not feel that personal, unlike when Axel died and he whined about it.

Xigbar trolled him like he trolled everything. Nothing new. And Xaldin had a Saix like stance on it. He wanted Roxas dead for being a traitor, but there didn't seem to be a feud between him and Roxas either.

I'll mention Axel for the sake of it. The only context we get from Roxas and Axel is Roxas wanted to know about the Keyblade and was leaving the Organization to find it. Why? Am I missing something? Did the game ever say that the Organization didn't want Roxas seeking answers? Why did he have to leave the group to find them? Why couldn't he use the group to find the answers, since COM already established they were researching Sora's memories via CO. Why is Roxas making his best friend suffer with his departure and why was he so cold to him when leaving, when you are trying to establish they are best friends? Yet if you even take KH2FM out of the equation, the two never have any good cutscenes together to show this bond and it's told not shown, making Axel's struggle feel hollow and one sided, I don't think Roxas ever truly cared for Axel in vanilla KH2. FM fixed that with one cutscene and for that I am grateful.

KH2 gives no real excuse as to why Roxas should hate Organization XIII and view them as enemies. If anything it looks like he unnecessarily made them his enemies when most of it sounded like he was on good terms with the group. Riku and Diz feel more like Roxas's enemies then the Organization, yet overcoming the evil cult trying to get their hearts back, as generic as they were in this game, was the big threat and not the grown man kidnapping kids and brainwashing them in virtual reality worlds and erasing their memories.

Again, I'm using this as a outsider looking in without context. I think KH2 handled Roxas's life in data Twilight Town with Hayner, Pence, and Olette beautifully, and really highlighted some of the best of Roxas, and why I love the character so much. But everything else about Roxas in KH2? It's passable now because of future games that filled in the blank spots, but without context, Roxas has no real reason to view the Organization as enemies. If anything Sora's influencing him to hate his old friends and co-workers.

I still enjoy KH2's story don't get me wrong, but it truly is a product of it's time looking back on how they handled some things.
 

Twilight Lumiair

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I have more unpopular thoughts on how KH2 handled Roxas. Yeah, he's my favorite character in the series, but I still feel his introduction into the series was not perfect.

Surprisingly while replaying KH2 in FM, the whole Roxas vs Organization XIII thing feels very one sided in KH2. Taking 358/2 Days out of the equation, Roxas has no reason to hate the Organization in KH2. In fact we never see him with anyone besides Axel and Xemnas, and both are kind to him. We all know his history with Axel and the game doesn't tell us how they had a falling out. But with Xemnas we see him talking calmly with him on the shores just asking if Roxas remembers his true name. And then we get another flashback of Xemnas finding a zombie Roxas lost in Twlight Town, and giving him his name and promising him a purpose in life. Good ole poppa Xemnas. He was even kinda excited at the thought of Roxas's reawakening when Sora entered TWTNW. Such a villain.

From a outsider looking in with no context, Roxas is looking kinda ungrateful here. And because the game never shows anything Roxas did in the Organization we only have what other characters have to say on it. I'm ignoring Days for the following since it came out later, and thankfully filled in the blanks.

Demyx was quite happy to see Roxas through Sora, and even begged him to come back (likely because his work load doubled lol) and when he doesn't he gets serious with the "traitor" line. But up until that point it sounds like Roxas and Demyx had been on good terms.

Then you had Luxord who seemed hurt by Roxas's betrayal. Luxord is given no time at all in this game to feel like a character, but this one line made him feel like he and Roxas shared some kind of companionship. Was I suppose to feel good or bad about Luxord's line before death? Sora sure as heck didn't care about it, and neither did Roxas.

Even Saix complements Roxas through Sora before they fight, almost a Saix way of showing respect to his strength as a warrior. And while that's all you'll get from him, there is no hint of a feud between Roxas and Saix in this game. With Saix it was all business. He wanted Roxas eliminated because he was a traitor. It did not feel that personal, unlike when Axel died and he whined about it.

Xigbar trolled him like he trolled everything. Nothing new. And Xaldin had a Saix like stance on it. He wanted Roxas dead for being a traitor, but there didn't seem to be a feud between him and Roxas either.

I'll mention Axel for the sake of it. The only context we get from Roxas and Axel is Roxas wanted to know about the Keyblade and was leaving the Organization to find it. Why? Am I missing something? Did the game ever say that the Organization didn't want Roxas seeking answers? Why did he have to leave the group to find them? Why couldn't he use the group to find the answers, since COM already established they were researching Sora's memories via CO. Why is Roxas making his best friend suffer with his departure and why was he so cold to him when leaving, when you are trying to establish they are best friends? Yet if you even take KH2FM out of the equation, the two never have any good cutscenes together to show this bond and it's told not shown, making Axel's struggle feel hollow and one sided, I don't think Roxas ever truly cared for Axel in vanilla KH2. FM fixed that with one cutscene and for that I am grateful.

KH2 gives no real excuse as to why Roxas should hate Organization XIII and view them as enemies. If anything it looks like he unnecessarily made them his enemies when most of it sounded like he was on good terms with the group. Riku and Diz feel more like Roxas's enemies then the Organization, yet overcoming the evil cult trying to get their hearts back, as generic as they were in this game, was the big threat and not the grown man kidnapping kids and brainwashing them in virtual reality worlds and erasing their memories.

Again, I'm using this as a outsider looking in without context. I think KH2 handled Roxas's life in data Twilight Town with Hayner, Pence, and Olette beautifully, and really highlighted some of the best of Roxas, and why I love the character so much. But everything else about Roxas in KH2? It's passable now because of future games that filled in the blank spots, but without context, Roxas has no real reason to view the Organization as enemies. If anything Sora's influencing him to hate his old friends and co-workers.

I still enjoy KH2's story don't get me wrong, but it truly is a product of it's time looking back on how they handled some things.
Yes! All of this!

I wanna comment a bit on Roxas' relationship with Xemnas and Siax.

First, Roxas and Xemnas, despite being eachother's antithesis, had and have a very interesting relationship leading up to KH3. You mentioned how politely Xemnas talked to Roxas in their one-on-one at the Dark Margin, but it's also important to realize that Roxas is one of, if not the only person among his subordinates that we see him conversate on equal footing with. All the other conversations he has with the Organization are very professional; only really about discussing the plans of the group. Never is it anything personal, like how we see him act with Roxas at the Dark Margin. Then there's also the fact that Xemnas decided to personally check on Roxas when he fell into a coma, and even went as far as to call him "friend" (in a very similar manner to what he did with Aqua's armor). These are bassically the only moments we have to give us insight into their relationship, and it's never really explored otherwise. Which is unfortunate, because there was SO much potential that could've been mined there, and I'm shocked we didn't get any personal diologue between the two in KH3. Instead, they decided to have Roxas give Replica exposition and talk about things he shouldn't POSSIBLY have known. And why? Xion and, especially Lea, both got solid diologue with Xemnas that gave us some level of insight into their relationship, but Roxas just spouts about Replica's and bassically doesn't even talk to anyone else? Really? What were they hyping up his return for then, if THAT'S the only pay-off we actually get?

If Roxas was brought back earlier, in addition to having a proper 1v1 fight with his former superior, we could've had the two share their experiences and different views on what it means to have a heart, whether or not having one is a burden, and if such a burden is worth carrying in order to regain their humanity. You could even tie that conversation back to theme of 'hurt' presented toward the end of Re: Coded, and re affirm the lessons learned in that game. During the conversation, perhaps Roxas' words could be what uncovers Xemnas' denial of his own feelings, and prompt the man to start re examining his views on the the value of heart. He wouldn't do a 180 in that moment, but would be nudged just enough to get him thinking so that when he finally reconciles at the Keyblade Graveyard and confronts his feelings, it would flow much more organically, and give him a proper arc in the game.

Some other ideas:
  • Roxas and Xemnas also have shared disposition and physiology, being Nobodies molded by the hearts of two Keyblade Weilders, and at some point forgetting that history due to amnesia. You could have Xemnas bring this up off handedly, perhaps trying to directly draw comparisons between the two of them, only for the blond to shoot it down. Saying he's nothing like Xemnas.
  • You could have Xemnas vaguely bring up how Roxas reminds him of an "old companion" of his, leading to Roxas asking Xemnas who he truly is. It would've been SO poetic to hear the blond ask Xemnas, in a moment of vulnerability, what he thinks his "true name" is, only to be met with pained silence from the other. Not only would this allow their first real conversation to come full circle, but could subtly show Xemnas' conflicted duality between Xehanort and Terra.
  • At the end of their talk, when Xemnas is on the fence about his views, he could tell Roxas that if his stance on the subject is proven false in the final battle, then he's entrusting Roxas to live on and embrace the humanity that the original Organization should've been striving to achieve. A moment like that could've been incredibly poignant, and helped to bookend the goals and ideals presented by the Org. back in KH2.
Like I said, there's a lot that can be mined here, and so many potential interactions that would've helped to provide satisfying closure between these two characters. I'll never understand how people were satisfied with their "confrontation" in KH3 when nothing about their history or conflicting views was even remotely addressed. It may have been a flashy moment, but it was also crushingly hollow.


In regards to Siax, I don't have nearly as much to say, but I will point out that among the members of RAX, Roxas easily has the least personal beef with this guy. So often I hear people say that Siax was abusive, and while that's absolutely true in the case of Xion (though Riku was arguably worse), every negative interaction he had with Roxas almost exclusively stemmed from Roxas' short temper. Never did Siax purposefully say anything mean directly to the boy, and at one point, he even tried to calm Roxas down when he was getting worked up over an unconscious Xion. He didn't even realize that Roxas was interested in Xion for more than just his own personal gain until the blond spelled it out for him. Hence lines like:

"Don't worry Xion's performance will not affect your standing with us."

"Ha! Spare me your displays of would be sentiment."


In fact, all of Roxas' negative feelings toward Siax are in regards to how speaks about Xion (whom he can get extremely protective over). When we exclude Xion though, Roxas and Siax have a normal, professional relationship. There's no personal beef between the two of them. Hence why in their fight, Siax is only acting on Xemnas' orders, and Roxas doesn't even have a word to say to the guy and ACKNOWLEDGES that. It's not like Xemnas, who orchestrated the events that lead to Xion's downfall and his defecting from the Organization, or Riku and DiZ, who actively subverted Roxas' agency and dehumanized him.

All that said, you can imagine how off puting, hollow, and anticlimactic it is that they decided Roxas' final and only battle in the finale of the whole Saga is... Siax of all people. It doesn't even have as much weight as their battle back in 358, and they barely spoke to eachother back then. Dare I compare this to his battle with Riku, or his battle with Xion, or his battle with Sora, or his battle with Axel? Xemnas was really the only person left that Roxas had yet to truly confront, and not only did he not fight him, their only diologue is expositional. Where's the closure in that?
*Edited for grammatical errors*
 
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SweetYetSalty

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Yes! All of this!

I wanna comment a bit on Roxas' relationship with Xemnas and Siax.

First, Roxas and Xemnas, despite being eachother's antithesis, had and have a very interesting relationship leading up to KH3. You mentioned how politely Xemnas talked to Roxas in their one-on-one at the Dark Margin, but it's also important to realize that Roxas is one of, if not the only person among his subordinates that we see him conversate on equal footing with. All the other conversations he has with the Organization are very professional; only really about discussing the plans of the group. Never is it anything personal, like how we see him act with Roxas at the Dark Margin. Then there's also the fact that Xemnas decided to personally check on Roxas when he fell into a coma, and even went as far as to call him "friend" (in a very similar manner to what he did with Aqua's armor). These are bassically the only moments we get have give us insight into their relationship, and it's never really explored otherwise. Which is unfortunate, because there was SO much potential that could've been mined there, and I'm shocked we didn't get any personal diologue between the two in KH3. Instead, they decided to have Roxas give Replica exposition and talk about things he shouldn't POSSIBLY have known. And why? Xion and, especially Lea, both got solid diologue with Xemnas that gave us some level of insight into their relationship, but Roxas just spouts about Replica's and bassically doesn't even talk to anyone else? Really? What were they hyping up his return for then, if THAT'S the only pay-off we actually get?

If Roxas were brought back earlier, in addition to having a proper 1v1 fight with his former superior, we could've had the two share their experiences and different views on what it means to have a heart, whether or not having one is a burden, and if such a burden is worth carrying in order to regain their humanity. You could even tie that conversation back to theme of 'hurt' presented toward the end of Re: Coded, and re affirm the lessons learned in that game. During the conversation, perhaps Roxas' words could be what uncovers Xemnas' denial of his own feelings, and prompt the man to start re examining his views on the the value of heart. Not all in that moment, but just enough to get him thinking so that when he finally reconciles at the Keyblade Graveyard and confronts his feelings, it would flow much more organically, and give him a proper arc in the game.

Some other ideas:
  • Roxas and Xemnas also have shared disposition and physiology, being Nobodies molded by the hearts of two Keyblade Weilders, and at some point forgetting that history due to amnesia. You could have Xemnas bring this up off handedly, perhaps trying to directly draw comparisons between the two of them, only for the blond to shoot it down. Saying he's nothing like Xemnas.
  • You could have Xemnas vaguely bring up how Roxas reminds him of an "old companion" of his, leading to Roxas asking Xemnas who he truly he is? It would be SO poetic to hear the blond ask Xemnas, in a moment of vulnerability, what he thinks his "true name" is, only to be met with pained silence from the other. Not only would this allow their first real conversation to come full circle, but could subtly show Xemnas' conflicted duality between Xehanort and Terra.
  • At the end of their talk, when Xemnas is on the fence about his views, he could tell Roxas that if his stance on the subject is proven false in the final battle, then he's entrusting Roxas to live on and embrace the humanity that the original Organization should've been striving to achieve. A moment like that could've been so poignant, and helped to bookend the goals and ideals presented by the Org. back in KH2.
Like I said, theirs a lot that can be mined here, and so many potential interactions that would've helped to provide satisfying closure between these two characters. I'll never understand how people were satisfied with their "confrontation" in KH3 when nothing about their history or conflicting views was even remotely addressed. It may have been a flashy moment, but it was also crushingly hollow.


In regards to Siax, I don't have nearly as much to say, but I will point out that among the members of RAX, Roxas easily has the least personal beef with this guy. So often I hear people say that Siax was abusive, and while that's absolutely true in the case of Xion (though Riku was arguably worse), every negative interaction he had with Roxas almost exclusively stemmed from Roxas' short temper. Never did Siax purposefully say anything mean directly to the boy, and at one point, he even tried to calm Roxas down when he was getting worked up over an unconscious Xion. He didn't even realize that Roxas was interested in Xion for more than just his own personal gain until the blond spelled it out for him. Hence lines like:

"Don't worry Xion's performance will not affect your standing with us."

"Ha! Spare me your displays of would be sentiment."


in fact, all of Roxas' negative feelings about Siax are in regards to how speaks about Xion (whom he can get extremely protective over). When we exclude Xion though, Roxas and Siax have a normal, professional relationship. There's no personal beef between the two of them. Hence why in their fight, Siax is only articling Roxas on Xemnas' orders, and Roxas doesn't even a word to say to the guy and ACKNOWLEDGES that. It's not like Xemnas, who orchestrated the events that lead to Xion's downfall and his defecting from the Organization, or Riku and DiZ, who actively subverted Roxas' agency and dehumanized him.

All that said, you can imagine how off puting, hollow, and anticlimactic it is that they decided Roxas' final and only battle in the finale of the whole Saga is... Siax of all people. It doesn't even have as much weight as their battle back in 358, and they barely spoke to eachother back then. Dare I compare this to his battle with Riku, or his battle with Xion, or his battle with Sora, or his battle with Axel? Xemnas was really the only person left that Roxas had yet to truly confront, and not only did he not fight him, their only diologue is expositional. Where's the closure in that?
I pretty much agree with everything. I'll address the Saix stuff first.

In the case of Saix, I agree Roxas had the least antagonistic relationship with him then Axel and especially Xion did. Saix was attempting his version of guilt tripping Axel with their past and "you've changed" as well as telling him not to get close to Roxas and Xion. And he was a utter monster to Xion. By comparison Roxas doesn't have as much, but Saix didn't seem to like him much either. While Roxas was highly emotional and protective of his friends, Saix openly mocked him for it too. When he wanted to switch places with Xigbar to go on a mission with Axel and Xion, Saix openly mocks him for it trying to bring him down, instead of just saying no. Saix wanted to make him look and feel childish and foolish for even asking that, knowing he was friends with Axel and Xion. And of course Roxas was overprotective of Xion! Nobody puts his puppet in a corner XD

You're ideas for Roxas vs Xemnas frustrate me because I love that idea and it makes me wish we got that Roxas vs Xemnas battle in KH3 even more. It's the one fight Roxas never had that has been building up since the end of 358/2 Days. Xemnas vs Roxas. The Nobody of Xehanort/Terra vs the Nobody of Sora/Ventus. The connection and history was all there. They had a face on in the actual graveyard teasing a big fight was about to happen, but nope! Xemnas takes Kairi and leaves. All that was missing was for him to say "yoink" as he took her. Part of me hopes they add Xemnas as a RAX boss fight, I mean if they can add Axel to the Saix final boss fight, or at the very least have Roxas be in the Nort court, but whether it's canon or not I have no idea.

Edit: Almost forgot to address the Riku thing. Funny thing is, Riku will likely never get called out for walking a little girl into killing herself for his friend. I seriously doubt it will ever come up again. Heck, Riku and Xion will likely not ever have a long conversation about the events of Days. When you get right down to it, it was a unhealthy relationship they had anyway. You could tell Riku was trying his hardest not to get attached to Xion even when partnered together.
 

*TwilightNight*

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I detest trios in the series. I hate the crap out of them, and I wish the concept and obsession Nomura has over them gets yeeted out of existence or gets a fatal vibe check. Aside the fact that I only like Roxas from the lot of them, they're just forced rehashes of SoRiKai with the same two males, one female, and one of said males tends to be the oldest one. It doesn't help that all of them have a Sora (or in the soap opera trio, two Soras).

It's simply contrived. For a series that drops anvils about characters being their own people, their trinities certainly aren't original. The trios are also toxic and chock full of selfishness and stupidity. Yes, that includes the apparent worshipped friendship of RAX. Majority of the shit that happened would've been smoother if they all were just honest with each other and didn't lie or keep things to themselves. They disrespected Roxas' agency to want to know what's going on and instead babied him, which led to the end result (only Naminé respected his wish fully and bluntly). Did they discuss any of their issues to properly move on from them? No. Just get them together to bring tears and call it a day.

The worst thing about it is that it keeps characters in some stupid little clique. KHIII showcased it splendidly, including its cover and opening. All that mattered was that the trios reunited for like one minute. Screw other connections with other characters!

Take Roxas for example. They set up his relationships with Naminé and Hayner/Pence/Olette by having him get triggered within Sora and momentarily flash over him in poignant moments. Sitting on the unfinished high rise eating ice cream in San Fransokyo and the unbreaking gaze into Naminé's window in the Twilight Mansion. With Sora mentioning in the Final World that he missed her along with confirming that Roxas actually shared her pain with his to Sora in that moment when they interacted in DDD. It explains why she appeared there quite a bit in that cheap transfer of memories show.

This is not even getting into how Hayner, Pence, Olette wanted to help Sora so he can return and how Hayner felt he was a pretty cool guy.

Did that have any pay off? Nope. We didn't see how they acted when they saw him and how they welcomed him. We didn't see how he acted when he saw them. And Naminé. There's more to him than Axel and Xion.

Riku aided Diz in shoving him to a Data world to forcibly return to Sora, they had a fight, and have never shown any friendliness. Suddenly cue them running around with each other at the beach.

Yeah, trios need to fucking go.
 

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I detest trios in the series. I hate the crap out of them, and I wish the concept and obsession Nomura has over them gets yeeted out of existence or gets a fatal vibe check. Aside the fact that I only like Roxas from the lot of them, they're just forced rehashes of SoRiKai with the same two males, one female, and one of said males tends to be the oldest one. It doesn't help that all of them have a Sora (or in the soap opera trio, two Soras).

It's simply contrived. For a series that drops anvils about characters being their own people, their trinities certainly aren't original. The trios are also toxic and chock full of selfishness and stupidity. Yes, that includes the apparent worshipped friendship of RAX. Majority of the shit that happened would've been smoother if they all were just honest with each other and didn't lie or keep things to themselves. They disrespected Roxas' agency to want to know what's going on and instead babied him, which led to the end result (only Naminé respected his wish fully and bluntly). Did they discuss any of their issues to properly move on from them? No. Just get them together to bring tears and call it a day.

The worst thing about it is that it keeps characters in some stupid little clique. KHIII showcased it splendidly, including its cover and opening. All that mattered was that the trios reunited for like one minute. Screw other connections with other characters!

Take Roxas for example. They set up his relationships with Naminé and Hayner/Pence/Olette by having him get triggered within Sora and momentarily flash over him in poignant moments. Sitting on the unfinished high rise eating ice cream in San Fransokyo and the unbreaking gaze into Naminé's window in the Twilight Mansion. With Sora mentioning in the Final World that he missed her along with confirming that Roxas actually shared her pain with his to Sora in that moment when they interacted in DDD. It explains why she appeared there quite a bit in that cheap transfer of memories show.

This is not even getting into how Hayner, Pence, Olette wanted to help Sora so he can return and how Hayner felt he was a pretty cool guy.

Did that have any pay off? Nope. We didn't see how they acted when they saw him and how they welcomed him. We didn't see how he acted when he saw them. And Naminé. There's more to him than Axel and Xion.

Riku aided Diz in shoving him to a Data world to forcibly return to Sora, they had a fight, and have never shown any friendliness. Suddenly cue them running around with each other at the beach.

Yeah, trios need to fucking go.
Ehhh it's not more the trio's fault...it's more...Nomura needs to stop introducing new characters every fucking chance he gets and make them somehow in some way, shape, & form, have them connected to Sora or ANY event of KH3 despite.

That said, Personally I feel that TAV was the weakest of the trio (in my opinion), But I'm neutral. I wouldn't go far as to say they weren't needed and all, But did we REALLY need the introduction of bratty Xehanort, the Foretellers, Chirithy, Luxu, the 'new' Organization consisting of...literally almost EVERYONE from the old one, & this new trio with Lea, Isa, & some girl? Did they REALLY need to be chucked into this already messy cesspool of characters? THEN THERE'S YOZORA.

Now...here's MY unpopular opinion: Apart of me wishes that...seeing what a BEAST that this game has turned to...almost makes me wish that it should've just stopped at 2.
 

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Jasmine gets it worse than Kairi when it comes to the PoH. She has like 3 spoken lines in KH1, 2 of which are when she's in the Pot Centipede. No lines period in CoM, text or otherwise. Despite the fact that the Chi world selection is due to the PoH, Agrabah's original storyline didn't have her show up at all. I swear they only did the movie adaptation plot later on because they finally released they completely forgot about her.

They should've had Ariel as a PoH instead of Alice. They could've had her temporary removed as a party member after Ursula's defeat & returned after Hollow Bastion. Not like anyone's gonna be in a hurry to go back to Atlantica.
 

SweetYetSalty

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Jasmine gets it worse than Kairi when it comes to the PoH. She has like 3 spoken lines in KH1, 2 of which are when she's in the Pot Centipede. No lines period in CoM, text or otherwise. Despite the fact that the Chi world selection is due to the PoH, Agrabah's original storyline didn't have her show up at all. I swear they only did the movie adaptation plot later on because they finally released they completely forgot about her.

They should've had Ariel as a PoH instead of Alice. They could've had her temporary removed as a party member after Ursula's defeat & returned after Hollow Bastion. Not like anyone's gonna be in a hurry to go back to Atlantica.
Agree on the Ariel thing. When I first played KH1 I was waiting for someone to capture Ariel after defeating Ursula. The game even says she's a princess. But I guess not a pure heart one? So Jasmine has no darkness but Ariel does? I don't buy it! What a load of bunk! And like you said she could return after the Hollow Bastion arc.
 

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They should've had Ariel as a PoH instead of Alice. They could've had her temporary removed as a party member after Ursula's defeat & returned after Hollow Bastion. Not like anyone's gonna be in a hurry to go back to Atlantica.
So much of this. Ariel's basically apart of the 6 main Princesses. Swapping her out with Alice makes no sense to me. Not even a SINGLE reference of her being a potential candidate was made during Atlantica.

And while we're at it...
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Guernsey

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That is actually really interesting that Ariel is not a princess of heart while Alice is. Alice is a good girl but she isn't a Disney princess like Ariel.
 

Genocide

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Ariel has darkness in her heart.

She steals, makes deals with the devil, craves the peepee is lustful places her curiosities over logic, and betrays her kingdom and family for personal gain.
She's not qualified to be a PoH. In KH or her original movie.
 
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Rodin

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I prefer TAV to SRK as characters or as a group of friends.
 
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KeybladeLordSora

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Ariel has darkness in her heart.

She steals, makes deals with the devil, craves the peepee is lustful places her curiosities over logic, and betrays her kingdom and family for personal gain.
She's not qualified to be a PoH. In KH or her original movie.
She's also easily manipulated. Like, both KH1 and KH2 show that! She gets duped TWICE by Ursula, only the second time is worse since it's a movie retelling.

So yeah, Ariel is not fit for PoH status due to that, and the fact that she was the only Disney Princess at the time to have done bad stuffs.
 
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disney233

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She's also easily manipulated. Like, both KH1 and KH2 show that! She gets duped TWICE by Ursula, only the second time is worse since it's a movie retelling.

So yeah, Ariel is not fit for PoH status due to that, and the fact that she was the only Disney Princess at the time to have done bad stuffs.
I mean....obliviousness & curiosity comes with being trapped in a palace. I'll give you the fact that she's been duped twice...because really that's just...idiotic. But y'know, So is Ursula coming back without ANY shred of reason aside from the fact that Atlantica needs a conflict. That being said, though I understand that Ariel's the...well idiotic of the Disney Princesses. Still doesn't mean she isn't a Princess and a possible candidate. If Ariel's not fit with the main 6 Princesses, then find someone else.

how-to-act-like-a-Disney-Princess.png

If Ariel isn't fit, then there's Mulan, Pocahontas on the list. If not them, there's the underrated Princesses like Tiger Lily and Eilowny. Ariel just seems like the logical choice since she's I guess she's like...apart of the main Princess line. The other 5 are already Princesses of Heart + Kairi. It just...irks me. It really does.
 

Sakuraba Neku

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As a designer, Nomura is unquestionable talented and one of my favourites together with Akira Toriyama, but his skills as director and writer are overrated.

He's not as good as some people made him out to be and he having so much control over KH3 was a bad idea. He definitely needs help of other talented people like Yoshinori Kitase, Kazushige Nojima and Daisuke Watanabe in order to bring his ideas to life in the best possible way.

Even though he isn't the only one culprit, the disaster that was Final Fantasy XV development (or should I say Final Fantasy Versus XIII ?!), is also something that is related to him. He not having so much freedom in Final Fantasy 7 Remake was a good decision by Square-Enix, to assure that game lives up to everyone expectations after the long awaited FF XV and KH3 piss off so many fans.
 
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SweetYetSalty

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Ya'll are going to hate me for saying this so much, but I got my flame shield up. Here goes, a very unpopular opinion.

I like the Emerald Serenade Heartless concept from 358/2 Days. Setting up a Blizzara spell, freezing it and then chucking away at it, or setting it on fire and watching it burn as it floats in it's circled path. I don't know, I've always thought this was one of the more invented missions in Days in terms of ambushing a target and seeing how much damage you can deal during each rotation via well timed magic spells. I actually made a challenge out of it.

Okay, tell me how wrong I am for liking such a tedious thing, I won't disagree. I'm weird :p
 

MATGSY

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Ya'll are going to hate me for saying this so much, but I got my flame shield up. Here goes, a very unpopular opinion.

I like the Emerald Serenade Heartless concept from 358/2 Days. Setting up a Blizzara spell, freezing it and then chucking away at it, or setting it on fire and watching it burn as it floats in it's circled path. I don't know, I've always thought this was one of the more invented missions in Days in terms of ambushing a target and seeing how much damage you can deal during each rotation via well timed magic spells. I actually made a challenge out of it.

Okay, tell me how wrong I am for liking such a tedious thing, I won't disagree. I'm weird :p
 

Guernsey

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As a designer, Nomura is unquestionable talented and one of my favourites together with Akira Toriyama, but his skills as director and writer are overrated.

His not as good as some people made him out to be and he having so much control over KH3 was a bad idea. He definitely needs help of other talented people like Yoshinori Kitase, Kazushige Nojima and Daisuke Watanabe in order to bring his ideas to life in the best possible way.

Even though he isn't the only one culprit, the disaster that was Final Fantasy XV development (or should I say Final Fantasy Versus XIII ?!), is also something that is related to him. He not having so much freedom in Final Fantasy 7 Remake was a good decision by Square-Enix, to assure that game lives up to everyone expectations after the long awaited FF XV and KH3 piss off so many fans.
That is good point. One of the reasons why the first game's story works so well is how tightly plotted and structured it was. Nomura ia fairly decent writer but he needs more experienced writers and editors to help bring his ideas to help refine hose ideas into something impressive.

You are no fun. :cautious:
 
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