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Guernsey

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@Veevee and @redcrown

You describe my feelings toward the story of the franchise, I really don't like the direction the series is going but at this point in my life, I really stopped being invested in the story.
 

Perkilator

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Can I be unpopularly honest for a second? A gimmick in the Toy Story world where you stop moving when people walk by would just be an annoying excuse to extend the playtime.
 

SweetYetSalty

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This might be a very unpopular opinion: Kingdom Hearts 2's story has aged the worst of all KH games.

I've been playing KH2FM and several plot points have not aged well or have been retconned out. Way more then KH1, a game that surprisingly still flows pretty well for the most part.

1: Roxas and Sora look alike. No they don't. Roxas looks like Ventus now. I don't see Sora/Roxas anymore. I use to really love the Sora/Roxas lookalike connection. Thanks BBS.

2: Xehanort started as Ansem's apprentice. No he's not. He's really a Keyblade wielder taken over by a old man with amnesia. And everytime I see Ansem the Wise and Xemnas on screen talking about the backstory of Xehanort I giggle at how wrong or incomplete their words are. I mean they had some idea BBS was coming didn't they?

3: Because it didn't exist yet, Axel and Saix have no dialogue of their history. Can't really blame the game for this one, but it's just very glaring that every game after this the two are connected. The KH2 manga was able to fix this due to doing Days early. So this one's not the games fault

4: Roxas was clearly meant to be a one and done character in KH2. It's why he feels more like a piece of Sora then his own character by the end of the game. I never realized how much KH2 tries to sugarcoat Roxas's sacrifice by forcing him into a ghost relationship with Namine, as if to say "Hey! Sure Roxas can't spend time with Hayner, Pence, and Olette anymore, and he'll never see Axel again, but cheer up! He's got a blond Kairi who forced him to give up his life in the first place and now they can be together forever because they are Sora and Kairi pieces! Everybody wins!" Thank goodness he does not stay this way in future games.

5: Namine was great in COM and had a presence. She's the opposite in KH2. She's exposition, performs a deus ex machina then she flaps her wings and flies away for the rest of the game before Sora or anyone else can really bond with the character. Why does she never try and contact Sora, and help out given everything she knows? I mean if she can break in and out of Xemnas's castle what does she have to fear? I like Namine, but if people are going to criticize every little thing Kairi and Xion do, Namine shouldn't be immune to criticism either, cause she's far from perfect. Also I find it sad she starts COM as a memory slave to abusive owners and then goes to KH2 and starts the game as a memory slave to a abusive racist owner.

6: Organization XIII are horribly generic in this game. This is probably the most disappointing aspect of KH2 for me now, because I love Organization XIII. They are still fun boss fights, but as characters? Only Demyx, Xaldin, and to a lesser extent Xigbar have aged well.

Luxord wasn't a character at all in this game. Days and KH3 gave him a personalty showing a more honorable mentor and fair play charm to him.

Xemnas's motivations have changed since DDD and now whenever I hear him talking I always wonder if this is his plan or Xehanorts. And his rivalry with Ansem the Wise feels less important now that we know where he came from.

Saix was a archetype generic henchmen with no story. Appearing only when the heroes needed someone to hate but the job was not important enough for Xemnas to see to it personally.

Xigbar still trolls but compared to his trolling in Days, BBS, DDD, and KH3, I go back and listen to his KH2 trolling and it sounds like even he doesn't fully know what he's talking about.

It's weird because the COM Organization members have aged pretty well and they too are archetypes. But yeah I find this their worst game in terms of characters.

7: Yen Sid with Donald and Goofy. A glaring retconn that the game doesn't even care to acknowledge. At least say Namine forgot to add that portion in their memories when she was working her magic.

8: Time Travel. Time Travel was so much more fun and simple in KH2. If they had made DDD a full Timeless River game, then that would have tied back to KH2 instead of making up new rules, but that's a discussion for another time.

I think those are my most glaring issues when replaying KH2's story. The game is still amazing gameplay wise and I still love Sora's reunions with Riku and Kairi, when he's talking to Leon and the gang, and the Disney stuff has surprisingly aged well despite how filler it is. But the KH original stuff? Looking back on it it's amazing Roxas became my favorite character when I didn't care much for him in KH2. He really went above and beyond the original role they had for him.
 

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Here’s what should’ve happened after the battle of the not-million enemies:

-All the Demon Tides form up into the Demon Storm
-Sora uses the Light of the Past and all the other Keyblades to defeat it, only to fall unconscious
-Everyone worries that Sora might be dead, but know there’s no time to mourn
-Everyone else moves up ahead and confronts Xehanort, who then creates the Skein of Severance
-Sora finds himself in the Final World and supports everyone as they face off against the Seekers of Darkness
-Once Sora wakes up, he finds Riku and Kairi up ahead
-The three go up ahead with Donald and Goofy and confront Xehanort’s other three selfes
-After the battle, Xehanort attempts to take Sora’s heart for the χ-Blade, but Kairi sacrifices herself and her heart is taken instead, and the χ-Blade is complete.

And then the final battle proceeds as normal.

Also, this just hit me; Luxord being the player from UX makes sense because he likes to play games.
 
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Perkilator

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Honestly speaking, if we ever go back to Agrabah, I want it to follow King of Thieves just so people can accept that Snake Jafar happened in UX. Yes, it sucks that Sora wouldn't get that fight, but it happening in UX is better to me than if Snake Jafar only appeared in a cutscene and some random Heartless is what we fought instead.

Simply put, I'd rather NOT retread Jafar's Return in the current continuity for the sake of fans wanting to fight Snake Jafar when it eventually happened in UX. For that alone, I'm grateful.
 

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Unpopular opinion, after see a particular one above. I...KINDA felt that most of the Organization was a one & done, too. I'm sure we all expected new characters to take on the role as the 13 Darknesses....but no. Literally Larxene explained it better than I. It's literally Organization Rehash, because there's literally only 3 characters absent while everyone else is back. Some of them seemed like fan demands......ok most of them.
 

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Honestly speaking, if we ever go back to Agrabah, I want it to follow King of Thieves just so people can accept that Snake Jafar happened in UX. Yes, it sucks that Sora wouldn't get that fight, but it happening in UX is better to me than if Snake Jafar only appeared in a cutscene and some random Heartless is what we fought instead.

Simply put, I'd rather NOT retread Jafar's Return in the current continuity for the sake of fans wanting to fight Snake Jafar when it eventually happened in UX. For that alone, I'm grateful.
In favor of this so people can shut up about a Gaston fight.
 

Face My Fears

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Honestly speaking, if we ever go back to Agrabah, I want it to follow King of Thieves just so people can accept that Snake Jafar happened in UX. Yes, it sucks that Sora wouldn't get that fight, but it happening in UX is better to me than if Snake Jafar only appeared in a cutscene and some random Heartless is what we fought instead.

Simply put, I'd rather NOT retread Jafar's Return in the current continuity for the sake of fans wanting to fight Snake Jafar when it eventually happened in UX. For that alone, I'm grateful.
Snake Jafar should have happened in KH1, but the way that game seemed to approach boss fights was: Part 1 - Regular fight, Part 2 - Giant fight/enhanced in some way (flying in NeverLand). I also don't think the mechanics in KH1 would have allowed a giant snake-like creature to fight (the dolphin in Atlantica was already moving so clunky), so they opted for the Genie Jafar. I will say that Genie Jafar's fights in all the games have disappointed me and that's why I hope if Agrabah/Jafar returns, we get the snake fight then the genie fight.

Unpopular opinion: I think Atlantica should come back and wasn't a bad world in KH1.
 

Perkilator

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Snake Jafar should have happened in KH1, but the way that game seemed to approach boss fights was: Part 1 - Regular fight, Part 2 - Giant fight/enhanced in some way (flying in NeverLand). I also don't think the mechanics in KH1 would have allowed a giant snake-like creature to fight (the dolphin in Atlantica was already moving so clunky), so they opted for the Genie Jafar. I will say that Genie Jafar's fights in all the games have disappointed me and that's why I hope if Agrabah/Jafar returns, we get the snake fight then the genie fight.
If we ever DO fight Snake Jafar as Sora, it's either

A. An illusion or flashback
or B. In a KH1 remake so it can stay truer to canon
 

Tartarus

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I'd rather play Cobra Jafar in one of the main games because the online game sucks. I'm for a Gaston boss, too. :p
 

Face My Fears

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If we ever DO fight Snake Jafar as Sora, it's either

A. An illusion or flashback
or B. In a KH1 remake so it can stay truer to canon
Why can't Jafar come back? Ursula just reappeared with no explanation in KH2. If anything, they can even use main story mechanics and say that Jafar was recompleted after being killed as a genie. Jafar is WAY too iconic a villain to miss out on in modern day KH. I mean with the system capabilities today -- would a fan of Aladdin prefer to fight whoever the villain is in King of Thieves or Jafar?
 

Perkilator

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Why can't Jafar come back? Ursula just reappeared with no explanation in KH2. If anything, they can even use main story mechanics and say that Jafar was recompleted after being killed as a genie. Jafar is WAY too iconic a villain to miss out on in modern day KH. I mean with the system capabilities today -- would a fan of Aladdin prefer to fight whoever the villain is in King of Thieves or Jafar?
Salu’k by a long shot. Ursula came back in KH2 just show e could follow the plot of the first Little Mermaid. Jafar, on the other hand? Died for good in the 2nd movie, KH2 a follows suit, ya da ya da his story’s done. Can we please not spiral into a debate?
 

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It caught me off guard to see Vanitas being taken down so easily. He seemed so much more vicious in his previous appearance, like nothing would stop him. As a whole, the tension was diminished by the interference. He received the (paralyzed treatment) just like every other 7th guardian of light did.
Old comment but..

Is he not allow to show an emotion or at least an reaction? If someone was behind you without your attention and they scare you, leaving you scared then why beat down Vanitas for having the same reaction as you? He didn’t know Sully was behind him, he didn’t know Sulley was going to roar at him and scare him. His reaction/body language is pretty much normal. It’s so funny how people would complain that Nomura can’t write characters because this character lacks emotion or that character is “static”. When he does give certain characters emotions or whatever, it’s suddenly “out of character” for them to have. Prime example, Aqua having PTSD and freezing up. Everyone bashed for her but are the same ones who claim that Aqua is dull due to lack of emotions.

Just because he’s “vicious”, doesn’t mean he can’t be frightened. Him being “vicious” didn’t stop him from whimpering and grasping over the X-blade with a sad face. Let villains show their emotional side too.
 
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Tartarus

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Why can't Jafar come back? Ursula just reappeared with no explanation in KH2. If anything, they can even use main story mechanics and say that Jafar was recompleted after being killed as a genie. Jafar is WAY too iconic a villain to miss out on in modern day KH. I mean with the system capabilities today -- would a fan of Aladdin prefer to fight whoever the villain is in King of Thieves or Jafar?
That’s a good point about Sa’luk being unknown to most people. That must be the same reason Abis Mal wasn’t in KH2 despite being part of The Return of Jafar. A shame since I'd love for them to use villains from the TV series. :/
 

Twilight Lumiair

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When he does give certain characters emotions or whatever, it’s suddenly “out of character” for them to have. Prime example, Aqua having PTSD and freezing up. Everyone bashed for her but are the same ones who claim that Aqua is dull due to lack of emotions.
No. Most people who complained about that moment think she's a great character who realistically shouldn't have reacted that way. Many people forget this, but in 0.2, when she was faced with an army of Darksides and their collective energy was raining death from the sky, her immediate reaction was to smile, say "ok then", and rush in head first to take them all out (and succeeded).
That whole section, in several ways, very much mirrors what Sora does just before the Ancient Lights appear in KH3, and it ended with an identical explosion of dark energy. This isn't anything new to her, so why, all of a sudden, would she give up without a fight? Litterally nothing in the RoD was a legitimate threat to her aside from SoD and Terranort (both of whom don't originate from that place, and she should be able to handle either one with her Keyblade anyway) because she outclassed everything she came in contact with. Where exactly is she getting this "ptsd" from?

And either way, when it comes to standing still and taking attacks for no reason, she did the exact same thing when fighting SoD (which is how she got tossed in the abyss to begin with) and let Terranort wail on her friends without so much as moving an inch, and it'd be ludicrous to say she would be having any kind of ptsd then either.

In general, she was made a mockery out of litterally the entire game (and I mean the whole thing). Her surrendering to the heartless tornado out of nowhere when Riku, someone who, for a long time, legitimately had a deep seeded fear of the darkness back during Reverse Rebirth, proved she could've fought back immediately afterwards, is just another example of this and should be criticized.
 
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In general, she was made a mockery out of litterally the entire game (and I mean the whole thing). Her surrendering to the heartless tornado out of nowhere when Riku, someone who, for a long time, legitimately had a deep seeded fear of the darkness back during Reverse Rebirth, proved she could've fought back immediately afterwards, is just another example of this and should be criticized.
It still bothers me that she drew a wall around her fight so Sora and the gang wouldn't interfere. That was so unlike her .. she had always taken (serious) help when offered and already knew Sora was pretty capable, so the only reason to shun him out was to give Ventus a grand appearance. Also, she was exhausted and must've known that - she's proud, but not dumb and the game displays her as a generic "I have to do this alone" person even though that just wasn't her.
 

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Speaking boss fights, I really wish that we could had fought Stromboli from the Pinocchio film or even a heartless version for him.
 

Perkilator

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Speaking boss fights, I really wish that we could had fought Stromboli from the Pinocchio film or even a heartless version for him.
You mean that guy who locks up Pinocchio before the Blue Fairy shows up and never comes back? I think the Parasite Cage was a fitting stand-in.

Anyways, for as many flaws as it has, we shouldn’t act like Nomura didn’t work hard in his 5 years of making the game.
 

Any

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I don’t think that’s a fair comparison (especially the Riku and Aqua one). Aqua came out from the RoD then brought into the RoL. She wasn’t fighting anymore heartless until all the Guardians came to Keyblade Graveyard. That tide was LARGER than an average demon tide. Seeing that tide transforming enormous like that, could have triggered Aqua with flashbacks when she was in RoD hence why she froze up at that particular scene. I am not saying it was written perfectly because it’s far from perfect but Aqua having PTSD is understandable and justifiable to a certain degree. Yes, it could have been executed properly but that’s all we have. That’s not really my main point in the original post either. I am just pointing out that fans complain that certain characters are static and needs to express more emotions. When it does happen and written out, everyone still complain about it.
 

Twilight Lumiair

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That’s not really my main point in the original post either. I am just pointing out that fans complain that certain characters are static and needs to express more emotions. When it does happen and written out, everyone still complain about it.
Oh, I know. I'm just saying it wasn't a particularly great example, or an accurate statement. The problems people have with that scene run far deeper than simply not wanting a character to have an extreme emotional reaction to something. I apologise if it felt like I was going off on a tangent though.

More to your original point, I don't think it's that people dislike when characters are written to be more emotive (one of the primary complaints with KH3 is how stiff, akward, and unemotive the cutscenes can be), but rather, the poor execution and inconsistent nature of how the emotions of specific individuals are portrayed. When you wanna try something different with a character, it's important to do so with a certain level of quality, otherwise, you might risk backlash. If it's done well, and fits with the character and their history, people simply wouldn't have as much reason to be so vocally upset about it. In other words, the problem isn't the emotional range of these characters (though their bland, and often bored demeanors in KH3 are certainly a point of criticism), but the characterization of them. Which ultimately always boils back down to the quality of the writing.
 
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