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I find Ansem the Wise more loathsome as a character than Xehanort.
Unpopular opinions!
- Thread starter Picklepaige
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I've been out of the fandom for a long time(8 years) so I'm not sure what's unpopular or not at this point,but here goes anyway.
-I think all four protagonist girls in the series act the same. Their default personality are that of the stereotypical girly archetype of being the nurturer of the group,being inhumanely selfless, holding their hands to their chest like their praying nonsense, and by default not being allowed to be a darker character like an actual complex human being. Larxene is the only one who's truly different,but she's the opposite extreme;a raging douchebag.
-I have zero interest in anything beyond KH3. This series should have ended here. I made my mind up at BBS that I was done after the Xehanort Saga, and Dream Drop Shark Jump just reinforced my resolve. I feel free.
-I think Nomura can be a great character writer when it comes to emotional moments. However, it's his lore asspulls and contradictions, as well as character and narrative inconsistencies, that make me want to pull my hair out.
-Aqua looks like a Kairi clone.Even though there's no lore reason why she does.It seems Nomura has a template for his female characters, in a lot of his games, and he apparently has some trouble deviating from that.
-I don't care about Vanitas. I've never cared about him.
-I don't care at all that FF wasn't in KH3. As a matter of fact I sincerely wish Disney had followed suit. The original characters and their stories are all I care about, and it's been that way since the beginning for me. That's part of the reason why I think Days has the best written story out of all the games because the Disney cheese took a strong backseat in it and thus allowed the original characters, and their more dark and emotional story, to take center stage.
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-Kairi looks better with long hair. Her shorter version makes her look younger than she is.
-Shipping in general is eye rolling nonsense to me,but if I even give a passing thought canon is the only thing that exists in any medium for me. How can you pair someone up with no romantic bases? Also breathing in the same direction doesn't make characters lovers, and one character having a strong crush while the other is completely oblivious doesn't make them one either. Furthermore showing platonic affection toward a best friend doesn't mean sex is on the horizon. That's why I stick to canon. There's payoff there. I don't understand shipping nothing. As for this series in particular concrete romance might blossom in the future,but at the moment there is nothing canon here.
-Lasting consequences don't exist in this series. This is not a good thing.
-Aqua's voice was atrocious in BBS. She sounded bored out of he mind. It's clear her actress was just there for a paycheck. It's like someone told her to be robotic as she possible could and she just ran with that. Terra voice was also pretty bad. So was Master Xehanort's. Yes I said that. Ven and Vanitas were the only one's who sounded like they gave a crap. I've since gotten use to it,but she still sounds lackluster for Aqua. Also dishonorable mention goes to Isa. I usually love Thornton's voice for Saix, because that's how you do calm without sounding like your're dead,but his Isa's voice was horrible. I wasn't expecting a 15/16 year child to sound like a grown man,but I wasn't expecting whatever that was either.
-Out of the Kairi clones Xion is the most striking.
-The dialogue of this series gets on my nerves for the most part. It's very childish and inhuman more often then not.I get so tired of hearing the over-saturated/ad-nauseum cheese-filled dialogue of darkness, light, friendship,memories,and connected. They're the series themes. I get that. However, show them to me in action. I don't need to hear them coming out of the the characters mouths every other minute. Basically grab a thesaurus Nomura or, if you don't want to use yourself as a reference, go around to other human beings so you can see how they actually talk.
-I'm also tired of Black Hole Sue Jesus Sora taking over the narrative at every turn.
-I wish Aqua's hair wasn't blue. It should be realistic like brown or something. She's the only Kairi clone that sticks aesthetically out of her trio because of it.
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-I feel like characters don't get to realistically dwell and reflect on the darker narratives that have happened to them.
Some examples:
I just wish their was actual realistic self refection even if it's just in secret reports.
-I think Saix looks kinda better in the older graphics of the other games. There is just something off with his face in this one. At first I thought it was just the better graphics enhancing the unbecoming color scheme of his yellow eyes and blue hair, and therefore creating a case of uncanniness,
-You are either Sora, Xehanort, or Kairi in this series.This is not a good thing. Even being from centuries past(and that's a whole nother issue) does not make you immune from this. I mean theories are already out there on that score because that's just what this series does.
-It definitely has its issues,but overall Days has the best writing as far as its trio is concerned. They became the most well written characters in the entire series. No other trio story touches the emotional writing that happened in Days. We got to see their friendship develop and break. That's storytelling 101. Show don't tell.
Days character writing was just on another level for this entire series,and it hasn't been replicated since.
For the BBS trio we're mostly told they are friends, and then we're just supposed to take the story at its word. There really is no show. The rare times they are together they felt like coworkers. Brothers(sister)at arms. Not friends.
BBS should have never had three story modes. The fact that they were away from each other, most of the time, hurt them as characters a lot.I honestly think the gummiphone should have been introduced then. It would have helped strongly with character moments for those three.
Also the overall writing in BBS was pretty terrible both for the characters and in general. I ended up just not caring about Terra, Aqua and Ven. They are likable in a generic way, and on paper their stories seem tragic,but when it came to the actual execution in the game I felt nothing for them.
Thus
The Destiny Island Trio also suffer from tell but no show.It has always felt like Sora/Riku or Sora/Kairi but not all three of them together thus I'm also not emotionally connected to them as friends either.
I mean even in this game that's still the case. For example
-I think all four protagonist girls in the series act the same. Their default personality are that of the stereotypical girly archetype of being the nurturer of the group,being inhumanely selfless, holding their hands to their chest like their praying nonsense, and by default not being allowed to be a darker character like an actual complex human being. Larxene is the only one who's truly different,but she's the opposite extreme;a raging douchebag.
-I have zero interest in anything beyond KH3. This series should have ended here. I made my mind up at BBS that I was done after the Xehanort Saga, and Dream Drop Shark Jump just reinforced my resolve. I feel free.
-I think Nomura can be a great character writer when it comes to emotional moments. However, it's his lore asspulls and contradictions, as well as character and narrative inconsistencies, that make me want to pull my hair out.
-Aqua looks like a Kairi clone.Even though there's no lore reason why she does.It seems Nomura has a template for his female characters, in a lot of his games, and he apparently has some trouble deviating from that.
-I don't care about Vanitas. I've never cared about him.
Also I will never buy why he looks like Sora,and even before Sora looked like Sora. This is just Nomura's typical everyone must look like, or be connected to, Sora, Kairi, or Xehanort nonsense.Spoiler Show
-I don't care at all that FF wasn't in KH3. As a matter of fact I sincerely wish Disney had followed suit. The original characters and their stories are all I care about, and it's been that way since the beginning for me. That's part of the reason why I think Days has the best written story out of all the games because the Disney cheese took a strong backseat in it and thus allowed the original characters, and their more dark and emotional story, to take center stage.
-
-Kairi looks better with long hair. Her shorter version makes her look younger than she is.
-Shipping in general is eye rolling nonsense to me,but if I even give a passing thought canon is the only thing that exists in any medium for me. How can you pair someone up with no romantic bases? Also breathing in the same direction doesn't make characters lovers, and one character having a strong crush while the other is completely oblivious doesn't make them one either. Furthermore showing platonic affection toward a best friend doesn't mean sex is on the horizon. That's why I stick to canon. There's payoff there. I don't understand shipping nothing. As for this series in particular concrete romance might blossom in the future,but at the moment there is nothing canon here.
-Lasting consequences don't exist in this series. This is not a good thing.
-Aqua's voice was atrocious in BBS. She sounded bored out of he mind. It's clear her actress was just there for a paycheck. It's like someone told her to be robotic as she possible could and she just ran with that. Terra voice was also pretty bad. So was Master Xehanort's. Yes I said that. Ven and Vanitas were the only one's who sounded like they gave a crap. I've since gotten use to it,but she still sounds lackluster for Aqua. Also dishonorable mention goes to Isa. I usually love Thornton's voice for Saix, because that's how you do calm without sounding like your're dead,but his Isa's voice was horrible. I wasn't expecting a 15/16 year child to sound like a grown man,but I wasn't expecting whatever that was either.
-Out of the Kairi clones Xion is the most striking.
-The dialogue of this series gets on my nerves for the most part. It's very childish and inhuman more often then not.I get so tired of hearing the over-saturated/ad-nauseum cheese-filled dialogue of darkness, light, friendship,memories,and connected. They're the series themes. I get that. However, show them to me in action. I don't need to hear them coming out of the the characters mouths every other minute. Basically grab a thesaurus Nomura or, if you don't want to use yourself as a reference, go around to other human beings so you can see how they actually talk.
-I'm also tired of Black Hole Sue Jesus Sora taking over the narrative at every turn.
-I wish Aqua's hair wasn't blue. It should be realistic like brown or something. She's the only Kairi clone that sticks aesthetically out of her trio because of it.
-
-I feel like characters don't get to realistically dwell and reflect on the darker narratives that have happened to them.
Some examples:
I just wish their was actual realistic self refection even if it's just in secret reports.
-I think Saix looks kinda better in the older graphics of the other games. There is just something off with his face in this one. At first I thought it was just the better graphics enhancing the unbecoming color scheme of his yellow eyes and blue hair, and therefore creating a case of uncanniness,
With Axel it's the exact opposite. I've never found him attractive. Well written? Sure. But attractive? No. Then KH3 hit, and I'm like well shit.
-You are either Sora, Xehanort, or Kairi in this series.This is not a good thing. Even being from centuries past(and that's a whole nother issue) does not make you immune from this. I mean theories are already out there on that score because that's just what this series does.
-It definitely has its issues,but overall Days has the best writing as far as its trio is concerned. They became the most well written characters in the entire series. No other trio story touches the emotional writing that happened in Days. We got to see their friendship develop and break. That's storytelling 101. Show don't tell.
Days character writing was just on another level for this entire series,and it hasn't been replicated since.
For the BBS trio we're mostly told they are friends, and then we're just supposed to take the story at its word. There really is no show. The rare times they are together they felt like coworkers. Brothers(sister)at arms. Not friends.
BBS should have never had three story modes. The fact that they were away from each other, most of the time, hurt them as characters a lot.I honestly think the gummiphone should have been introduced then. It would have helped strongly with character moments for those three.
Also the overall writing in BBS was pretty terrible both for the characters and in general. I ended up just not caring about Terra, Aqua and Ven. They are likable in a generic way, and on paper their stories seem tragic,but when it came to the actual execution in the game I felt nothing for them.
Thus
The Destiny Island Trio also suffer from tell but no show.It has always felt like Sora/Riku or Sora/Kairi but not all three of them together thus I'm also not emotionally connected to them as friends either.
I mean even in this game that's still the case. For example
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I rest my case on the Disney stuff.
I didn't feel a thing for the emotional surprise, nor found Sora's reaction engaging. In fact, I laughed when that someone got sliced to pieces. Shame though to go out (in such a distracting attire with messy haircut) Made that someone look so fragile and innocent. Which I know ticked off a lot of players.
The JP dub for BBS is one underrated gem in the story department. The dialogue is on a whole new level of different, compared to the ENG dub.
I adored the 2nd visits in Kingdom Hearts 2. I'd rather come visit for story elements, instead of abandoning any continuation once finished on first visit.
I didn't feel a thing for the emotional surprise, nor found Sora's reaction engaging. In fact, I laughed when that someone got sliced to pieces. Shame though to go out (in such a distracting attire with messy haircut) Made that someone look so fragile and innocent. Which I know ticked off a lot of players.
The JP dub for BBS is one underrated gem in the story department. The dialogue is on a whole new level of different, compared to the ENG dub.
I adored the 2nd visits in Kingdom Hearts 2. I'd rather come visit for story elements, instead of abandoning any continuation once finished on first visit.
Sora's portrayal in kingdom hearts three ironically is the most he's ever been allowed as a character to emphasis on himself. Has no one noticed this lasting trope of him unable to be himself and only the marvel and public eye definition of a defender of his friends? To live, breathe, and die by your friends but what about you? What about your life? I feel as though he didn't succumb to the tunnel vision of "RIKU!" "KAIRI!" this time around with the latest installment, and for all my other qualms I have about 3, that was one I genuinely found redeeming about Sora. The tearing him apart and losing something across so many games, was some element that weighed where he was obsessed with a friend or a complete stranger implanting themselves as apart of him as his friend, all these convoluted points in the writing itself take soul from a character's spotlight and made the value of him in hard focusing on everyone but himself, but substantially less in 3 and for how little was introduced, it was, fuckin awesome.
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I sympathize with those that care about this series’ story and see it as more than good source of laughter (especially when drunk), but I can’t say I understand them.
D
Deleted member 246005
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Kingdom Hearts can be mature but no one's is gonna mistake it for a Seinen(adult manga aimed at men) or a Josei(adult manga aimed at women).
It'll be fine as a western animated series on Disney.
It could work as a movie but you would have to trim a whole ton of fat (which might not be a bad thing ).
It'll be fine as a western animated series on Disney.
It could work as a movie but you would have to trim a whole ton of fat (which might not be a bad thing ).
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I like Sora fine as is, but in the long run, I think he would have been better off as a mute in the vein of Link.
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Kairi might not be that good at battles,but she is not useless in the slightest. It seems our western sensibilities has the unfortunate mindset that in order for a woman to be worthy she must be a man with breasts.There is nothing wrong with being traditionally feminine and badass. They are not mutually exclusive. Also being badass does not have to always mean how good you are at being violent. It can also mean emotional strength, and I think Kairi has always brought that very well. Her main role is to be Sora's light and romantic love, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Axel killed Vexen and Zexion? So? Why should I care that a killer killed some killers? Besides he did them both a favor. They are human now because of what he did. Also his so called 'victims' are the reason three actual innocents get to live again.
The Organization(with the obvious exceptions of Roxas, Xion and Axel) are all monsters and should rot in hell. These evil creatures are only 'redeemed' because they got draco and leather pants to hell and back, and so Nomura saw money was to be made from favoritism off that. 'People might not buy our games if we don't give forced redemption to these evil bastards!'
Axel killed Vexen and Zexion? So? Why should I care that a killer killed some killers? Besides he did them both a favor. They are human now because of what he did. Also his so called 'victims' are the reason three actual innocents get to live again.
The Organization(with the obvious exceptions of Roxas, Xion and Axel) are all monsters and should rot in hell. These evil creatures are only 'redeemed' because they got draco and leather pants to hell and back, and so Nomura saw money was to be made from favoritism off that. 'People might not buy our games if we don't give forced redemption to these evil bastards!'
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That reminds me of what I think must be an unpopular opinions: I've always like the original Organization because they were emotionless villains who act on cold blood, and usually their actions could be justified by cruel logic, but logic nonetheless. So, obviously I wanted them to return, but I hate the fact that they have to be "redeem". Now there's almost nothing I like of any of them. I don't understand why people (and worst, writers) think that because a character is liked, they must turn into a "hero", when if it was liked was because they wasn't a hero at all to start with.
Axel is my favorite character of the series but I hate the fact that he now has a keyblade. He was a dreadful enemy and a relevant actor of the plot without the need of one. Now they has erased his personality as wild card, force him to star from zero, and turn him into "Standard Guardian of Light 2.0". "Keyblade wielder" shouldn't be synonym of "protagonist".
358/2 Days is my favorite game in the series because it is slow. I think that is what allow the characters of the game to actually have a personality they couldn't develop if they were all the game running from one place to the next without breathing. Also Days is not an action movie, is a story about learning what means to be human. I really don't see how people expect it to be written.
I think ReCoM has one of the best stories of all KH, and the card system was really funny. I would have loved it to have secret bosses or more difficulty levels (is almost impossible to lose against normal enemies if you use combos).
The infamous complicated plot of KH is one of the things that I love more about the saga. It always makes me wonder what is the meaning of even the smallest details and create theories of what will happen in the future (or, lately, in the past).
D
Deleted member 246005
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Kingdom hearts would have been better off with more standalone titles or shorter arcs.
Really?
Reviews, fans & newcomers have been mostly cheering and praising KH3 since day 1. Calling it the best written KH game since KH1, for it's simplicity and charm. Then recently there's been members that were disappointed with the incoherent & childish approach of the game. Rightfully expecting more, due to the side games building up stakes & emotional beats for KH3.
People in the forums have been shitting on KH2 since at least 2010. If anything, KH3 has a large number of players that like it alone for it's worlds and gameplay. Many prefer KH1 and then KH3 over the other entries in the franchise. Not to mention that a huge part of the fandom gets triggered by the slightest of criticism for KH3.
As for Days, I never liked the cutscenes where there was no real context or how it focused more time on scenes that were awkwardly quit, cutting to the next cutscene after a unnecessary close up. And some of the execution comes off as rather choppy and robotic. The awkward laugh that was first introduced in KH2, was so obviously out of place in some intended heartwarming scenes.
I still think that it was a missed opportunity not to make the trio centre on Roxas, Axel & Naminé. Not only do I believe that it would have made the dynamic between Roxas & Naminé more fleshed out, but also could've explored new aspects of Naminé's character. And somehow Roxas being the third wheel for the duration of the story was a little underwhelming.
I do feel that CoM had the better balance with conversations and conflicts. Either that or it just had more fun to tell it's intended story without being taken as dragging nor heavy handed. Funny how 95% of that game is based on aggressive delusions that Sora had as his motivation.
Reviews, fans & newcomers have been mostly cheering and praising KH3 since day 1. Calling it the best written KH game since KH1, for it's simplicity and charm. Then recently there's been members that were disappointed with the incoherent & childish approach of the game. Rightfully expecting more, due to the side games building up stakes & emotional beats for KH3.
People in the forums have been shitting on KH2 since at least 2010. If anything, KH3 has a large number of players that like it alone for it's worlds and gameplay. Many prefer KH1 and then KH3 over the other entries in the franchise. Not to mention that a huge part of the fandom gets triggered by the slightest of criticism for KH3.
As for Days, I never liked the cutscenes where there was no real context or how it focused more time on scenes that were awkwardly quit, cutting to the next cutscene after a unnecessary close up. And some of the execution comes off as rather choppy and robotic. The awkward laugh that was first introduced in KH2, was so obviously out of place in some intended heartwarming scenes.
I still think that it was a missed opportunity not to make the trio centre on Roxas, Axel & Naminé. Not only do I believe that it would have made the dynamic between Roxas & Naminé more fleshed out, but also could've explored new aspects of Naminé's character. And somehow Roxas being the third wheel for the duration of the story was a little underwhelming.
I do feel that CoM had the better balance with conversations and conflicts. Either that or it just had more fun to tell it's intended story without being taken as dragging nor heavy handed. Funny how 95% of that game is based on aggressive delusions that Sora had as his motivation.
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I agree. I'm really hoping we get this now that the Xehanorts are finally gone, time to change the formula.
I mean, you thought Larxene or Demyx of all people were emotionless villains who acted in cold blood?
I think what sold the original Organization (or most of its cast at the very least) was precisely the different array of characters and personalities, which never (barring Axel) devolved into "redemption".
Every Organization XIII member displayed different emotions and inspired different feelings in the player, which is almost always a good thing with a group of characters in a medium regardless of the internal rules or concepts of said product because it means you made a memorable set of characters and not some bland copies.
The notion that they were just really good actors and were only PRETENDING to feel emotions as Saix says in KH II only goes so far, and even back in the days well before DDD there were some fans who doubted that and insisted Nobodies had actually emotions.
Xemnas really was the only one who truly made it seem like he had no emotions and could kill you on the spot without feeling anything, not even joy. And sure enough Xemnas is a good character many people like, but I'm not sure we would've liked the original Organization if it was made of essentially 13 "Xemnas".
That said, I agree that a character can have personality without becoming a good guy necessarily. I liked some of the redemptions, but as some people know I have a lot of problems with Saix and what happens to him and even Vexen's felt really out of character in the end.
I feel like that's part of what made CoM's story so good. The two story modes of CoM are essentially revolving entirely around either Riku or Sora, and making a believable and interesting conflict which explores their characters helps propelling the whole thing forward. CoM Sora gave us the biggest spectrum of emotions of the entire saga.
And we make jokes about how Riku's story is "Darkness", "No", "Darkness", "No", "Darkness", "Okay I guess", but it ultimately makes a good foundation and first act for his redemption arc.
Of course, I never meant I wanted to have 13 Xemnas, and I agree about the fact that all have different characters (something that is lacking in the more recent entries) and that was their "selling point": nevertheless, I think that they all can be more or less considered emotionless villains, just in different ways. Or maybe, you are right and "emotionless" is not the right expression, but what I wanted to say (I have some difficulty choosing accurate words in English, sorry) is that they all can be considered "cruel" or "merciless", whether is because they truly appear to don't have a heart, or if they have one, would be one of "sadistic" feelings.
Demyx is lazy, and he is more than satisfied with the fact that Larxene and company seems to be annihilated in Castle Oblivion: he rather have his "partners" die if that means he can get away slacking his job. And even if Larxene seems to be enjoying her time in Castle Oblivion, in the end she seems to me somehow bored: is like she was punching kids just to kill time.
My point was more about realizing that the redemptions shouldn't be a way to "reward" a character for being liked, but yeah, probably I didn't express it quite well.
And, to continue with an unpopular opinion (at least it is between my friends):
I find that KH2 was far more difficult than KH2FM. Maybe is because I played the first while I was young and have less experiences, but even with the final bosses, to have the skill "dodge roll" really simplified the gameplay a lot.
D
Deleted member 246005
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I don't think a Roxas/Namine/Axel trio would be a true trio at first. Namine and Axel would represent two opposing paths Roxas would have to figure out so most of the game the trio wouldn't be in the same room together. Granted maybe Roxas could bridge the gap and help Namine/Axel become friends?
I like Aerith’s KH2 voice. I’ve never played/watched any of the FFVII stuff she’s been in, but she always struck me as being like a hippie, and I think the voice fits that.
I prefer Kingdom Hearts III combat over Kingdom Hearts II, its just more fun.