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Unbirths: Beings Without Souls?



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Allister Rose

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Clowde a while back snapped out quotes from the ansem reports in KH1 where he actually invented heartless both pure blood and emblem. That's how the evolution part is disproved.

oh never mind...i was talking about the rest of the thoery
 

Zeagal

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They weren't around in BBS and Unbirths weren't around after. There's no word yet if they ever existed at the same time but I doubt it. The actual report was like 8 or something, I'd have to look back...
 

OmniChaos

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If you take off the Disney Filter, you'll get "Birth by Death."

I hate it when people mention Disney, it is automatically assumed to be childish and light...
News flash: Disney has made some freaking dark stuff. And on top of that, they've killed a lot of characters. Christ, they hung Clayton and showed his swinging shadow. =/


An Unbirth is created when an individual dies... but not naturally...

Eh...
Idk... That really doesn't have that KH feel for me...


An Unbirth is a being whose soul, or life force, has been replaced by darkness itself. The individual should be dead, but is given new life. A birth through death... an "unbirth."

Yeah, except this really conflicts with that:

Secret Ansem Report 4 said:
When the soul leaves the body, its vessel, life gives way to death, but what about when the heart leaves?

Now, before anyone brings up the Heartless thing, note what is said: "When the soul leaves the body..."
Personally, I think this would fall under the situation of the soul leaving the body.


Unbirths no longer exist... Why? It would be quite improbable that Keybladers eliminated every single one in the known KH Universe.

Not if the Unbirths were something that were artificially created...
If the creator was gone, no more Unbirths could be created and could eventually be wiped out.


Once an Unbirth is created, they are constantly evolving from Day One into a Heartless. As the darkness infusing their bodies begins to envelop the heart, the body is consumed... Creating a... pureblood Heartless!

Considering Xehanort created the very first Heartless, I would have to say that this is incorrect.

So how was Xehanort the apprentice created?

Thought this was a Unbirth theory...

Apparenty, Terra's soul was eaten at some point in BBS...

...It was?

maybe by the DS with the Soul Eater-type Keyblade?

...
Eh, no?


Somehow Terra was saved with Master Xehanort's life force (probably unwillingly...).

Why in the hell would MX save Terra?

Ansem the Wise

Forgot Barbossa.

Debatable, only one we've actually seen die would be Repliku and maybe...yeah.

We saw Barbossa get shot. =/

Who says Unibrth are naturally created?

Thank You!

Crossroads said:
This one actually is the best I've seen so far.

This is nothing compared to some of the theories that were made a while back. I remember V.A.T.13 used to always make some long ass theories.

Crossroads said:
He didn't invent the pure blood heartless did he? I thought they have always been?

No. Ansem Report 2 (I believe) explains when Xehanort created the Pure Bloods. AR 8 (I think, don't feel like looking it up) is when Xehanort created the artificial ones.
 

Kafiezal

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thanks OC you're always ready to give the other side of things
 

Zeagal

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We saw Barbossa get shot. =/
I'm gonna do it...go off topic and mention Disney. He was a disney character who was also a villain. We've seen many of them defeated only to come back at a later time. Hell in the movies he even came back. I don't think it's exactly fair to hold them up to standards of the reat of the KH universe because movie content usually dictates what goes on in a world and when it doesn't you get a conflicting mess like Lion King ended up being.
 

Zeagal

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Yeah, it doesn't matter much anyway. The fact he died changes nothing in the long run as of yet so I'm just going to stand by my thought that they don't make the best examples.
 
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Azrael

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Don't see anything that would be wrong in this theory but the soul is definetely a component of the Unbirths, perhaps mixed with the heart?
 

Clowde

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Xehanort sparked the creation of the first pureblood, and later created a machine to reproduce the process.

Ansem Report 2:
It is my duty to expose what this darkness really is. I shall conduct the following experiments:
Extract the darkness from a person's heart.
Cultivate darkness in a pure heart.
Both suppress and amplify the darkness within.
The experiments caused the test subject's heart to collapse, including those of the most stalwart. How fragile our hearts are! My treatment produced no signs of recovery. I confined those who had completely lost their hearts beneath the castle.
Some time later, I went below and was greeted by the strangest sight. Creatures that seemed born of darkness...What are they? Are they truly sentient beings? Could they be the shadows of those who lost their hearts in my experiments?

That was the first Pureblood ^




Ansem Report 8
There is no doubt that the Heartless are deeply connected to the people's hearts. Further study may unravel both their motivations and the mysteries shrouding the heart.
As a start, I have built a device that artificially creates Heartless. By recreating the conditions that spawn the Heartless naturally, I should be able to produce them artificially. This device is the culmination of all my research thus far. The machine's test run successfully created a Heartless.
This may be a step toward creating a heart from nothing. The artificially and naturally created Heartless showed nearly identical traits. But the two types remain distinct for the purpose of the experiment. So, I will mark the ones that are created artificially.

Creation of the Emblem heartless ^

Requoted because everyone seems to have missed my post...
 

Xiion

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This might be a little far fetched considering that I'm half asleep while typing this, but wouldn't it be more logical if an Unbirth was the physical manifestation of the lack of a body, but the remains of a heart and soul?

Kingdom Hearts antagonist labels are extremely contradictory, in case you haven't noticed.

A Nobody HAS a body.
Heartless HAVE hearts.
An Unbirth could play a reverse role and contradict it's existence ; if the heart and soul are still in tact with each other, but have no vessel to fulfill their duties in , what if they... created their own?
The heart and soul would make it so that something is already there, but not, at the same time. The person lost both, but they're drifting.
So something is put in placement of the body.
Don't think of it so much as an Unbirth, but more as of something that forced it's own rebirth.

Tetsuya DID say that Unbirths should be viewed as something to the effect of the exact opposite of human life.
Humans, even in Kingdom Hearts, cannot force their own existence.
So this would fit the description of our opposite, eh?

Sorry if this didn't make sense, lawl. :D
 

Chrono Mizaki

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I kinda... thought the theory was interesting... up to the part about the evolution. You had points, but they didn't back them up at all and few people have disprove that. I think the "No Memory" part is the best way to describe the creation of an unbirth (despite Marluxia's claims, because I think he was just desperate to gain control).

Oh and Evolution. Even though this is Kingdom Hearts, Evolution just wouldn't make sense. We don't know how long the unbirth has been created, but if it isn't that long, it's questionable whether they evolve from their current form to a Heartless, especially when the procedure OF A UNBIRTH is actually more complicated than the creation of the Heartless.

If there was a better alternative and for less time, then why opt for a method that's inferior? As a scientist, it doesn't make sense.

I believe the Unbirth aren't there anymore because MX is probably the only person to know how to create them or they were still around until the creation of the Heartless. Who knows, the Heartless could be stronger than the Unbirth. Evolution? Hah, How about 'Extinction'?

I'm leaning more towards the latter, especially whether it's possible that Unbirth can turn others into one in the same fashion as the Heartless.
 

Mata Nui

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I hate it when people mention Disney, it is automatically assumed to be childish and light...
News flash: Disney has made some freaking dark stuff. And on top of that, they've killed a lot of characters. Christ, they hung Clayton and showed his swinging shadow. =/

Yeah, but having "death" in the title would be a bit much. It would hurt sales as parents would hesitate to buy it for their kids. We all know Disney loves the money.

Eh...
Idk... That really doesn't have that KH feel for me...

Well, this is supposed to be the darkest game yet in the series...

Now, before anyone brings up the Heartless thing, note what is said: "When the soul leaves the body..."
Personally, I think this would fall under the situation of the soul leaving the body.

Maybe Xehanort 2.0 could not remember Unbirths well... His memories certainly are screwed up as he has no clue who he was before...

Not if the Unbirths were something that were artificially created...
If the creator was gone, no more Unbirths could be created and could eventually be wiped out.

That is actually part of my theory. With Master Xehanort gone, no more Unbirths could have been created.

Thought this was a Unbirth theory...

It was, but more connections adds support to my argument.

...It was?

A guess based on my theory.

...
Eh, no?

I don't really have a refute for that.

Why in the hell would MX save Terra?

Notice I put "probably unwillingly" beside my statement. That applies to master Xehanort, not Terra. Maybe Ven forced MX's soul into Terra's body... Maybe that's why he asks to be erased later on...

I totally agree that MX would not save Terra willing.
 

Clowde

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This might be a little far fetched considering that I'm half asleep while typing this, but wouldn't it be more logical if an Unbirth was the physical manifestation of the lack of a body, but the remains of a heart and soul?

Kingdom Hearts antagonist labels are extremely contradictory, in case you haven't noticed.

A Nobody HAS a body.
Heartless HAVE hearts.
An Unbirth could play a reverse role and contradict it's existence ; if the heart and soul are still in tact with each other, but have no vessel to fulfill their duties in , what if they... created their own?
The heart and soul would make it so that something is already there, but not, at the same time. The person lost both, but they're drifting.
So something is put in placement of the body.
Don't think of it so much as an Unbirth, but more as of something that forced it's own rebirth.

Tetsuya DID say that Unbirths should be viewed as something to the effect of the exact opposite of human life.
Humans, even in Kingdom Hearts, cannot force their own existence.
So this would fit the description of our opposite, eh?

Sorry if this didn't make sense, lawl. :D

Why would they need to make a body of their own? Hearts seem to be able to float around perfectly fine by them selves. Sora did it for most of CoM.

We think the UnBirths lack a soul, because in KH when you lose your soul, the body will decay. It will die. But if darkness replaces the soul as a life force, it wont. It'd be unborn.

That is actually part of my theory. With Master Xehanort gone, no more Unbirths could have been created.

That's weird. I thought your theory said Unbirths evolved into heartless. Not that the creator disappeared....
 

Athaydea

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This is nothing compared to some of the theories that were made a while back. I remember V.A.T.13 used to always make some long ass theories.

lol she had a way of taking everything you thought you knew about the KH universe ..making you think it was wrong ..and twisting whatever her theory was into being the only possible outcome or explanation for things .. i miss her lol
 

OmniChaos

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Well, this is supposed to be the darkest game yet in the series...

It doesn't matter. What I am getting at is that death is not a prominent theme for KH. Aside from a few times, death has not really occurred in the KH games. Neither the Heartless nor Nobodies were really "killed". Death and family are rather similar in KH and adding either one to a game as a large part of the plot just would not really fit.

Maybe Xehanort 2.0 could not remember Unbirths well... His memories certainly are screwed up as he has no clue who he was before...

It seems you have misunderstood.
What I was saying, is when a soul leaves a body, the body dies (and if a heart is inside the body at the time, it would die as well).


Maybe Ven forced MX's soul into Terra's body...

Judging from the secret ending, I doubt Ven is in any position to do such.
Besides, I doubt Ven is even that strong...


Maybe that's why he asks to be erased later on...

Ven could have asked (and probably did ask) to be Erased before the secret ending.

Why would they need to make a body of their own? Hearts seem to be able to float around perfectly fine by them selves.

Xehanort is an example. His "heartless" was a free-floating heart for about nine years. When we saw him in KH1, it was obvious that his body had degraded quite a bit. He didn't regain his true form until he took over Riku's body.

Sora did it for most of CoM.

Sora did it for all of CoM.

lol she had a way of taking everything you thought you knew about the KH universe ..making you think it was wrong ..and twisting whatever her theory was into being the only possible outcome or explanation for things .. i miss her lol

We all do. =<
Well, maybe everyone except Genocide...
 

Athaydea

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Xehanort is an example. His "heartless" was a free-floating heart for about nine years. When we saw him in KH1, it was obvious that his body had degraded quite a bit. He didn't regain his true form until he took over Riku's body.

so do you mean to say that when xehanort first split himself to form XH and xemnas ..that XH (which is just xehanorts heart) had the same form he did when he invaded riku? ..if he had that form already i dont see how time would cause it to degrade when technically it wasnt even a body ..it was a manifestation of the heart? ..

Sora did it for all of CoM.

and this is something ive never really understood ..becuase if this were the case ..it would also mean that from the time sora stabbed himself with that keyblade and released his and kairis heart ..until the end of CoM when he's put into that pod ..sora was just a heart? ..so what exactly did kairi do to him when she brough him back from being a heartless.. i know she purified his heart and thereby thwarted out the darkness in it ..but how could that give him a new "body" ..even it even was one ..i dont find it very likely that his heart manifested a form for him to walk around with ..
 

Mata Nui

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That's weird. I thought your theory said Unbirths evolved into heartless. Not that the creator disappeared....
I stated that part at the end of the Evolution Theory.

Therefore, no Unbirths exist today. Perhaps Master Xehanort was behind infusing people with darkness since it seems to no longer occur.
(<<< which means that once all of the Unbirths evolve, no new ones can be created since the creator is gone. )
 

finaloblivion13

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I stated that part at the end of the Evolution Theory.

Therefore, no Unbirths exist today. Perhaps Master Xehanort was behind infusing people with darkness since it seems to no longer occur.
(<<< which means that once all of the Unbirths evolve, no new ones can be created since the creator is gone. )

heartless= no hearts
unbirths= no memories
that's my theory in a nutshell.
 
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